Disaster 12-year-old charged with drawing anti-Semitic graffiti on school playground - HAIL HITLER

Oglooger

God isn't dead!BUT I'LL GET THAT BASTARD SOME DAY!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
New York has mandatory holocaust classes.
In spite of such classes, some kid still drew nazi graffiti all over his playground.
The NYT journalist's proposed solution to nazi graffiti is... more holocaust classes?

How much holocaust education should we push on children before we realize that no hate crime was committed due to a lack of holocaust education, and no hate crime was prevented by holocaust education.
Forced Holocaust education in Texas made me a Holocaust skeptic.
maybe they shouldn't force the holocaust down our throats and commercialize it?
 
Reactions: Unog and Coldgrip

Krokodil Overdose

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kiwifarms.net
Forced Holocaust education in Texas made me a Holocaust skeptic.
maybe they shouldn't force the holocaust down our throats and commercialize it?
At this point, mentioning Nazis or the Holocaust gets the same reaction from me as mentioning Harry Potter: "LEARN ANOTHER WAR."
Also, there's no practical difference between Holocaust denial laws and anti-blasphemy laws.
 

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu
Christorical Figure
kiwifarms.net
Forced Holocaust education in Texas made me a Holocaust skeptic.
maybe they shouldn't force the holocaust down our throats and commercialize it?
I'm no skeptic but I do think that the sheer level of focus we give to the nazi genocide trivializes the other ones we don't teach our kids about. A million people died in Armenia, three million in Ukraine. Tens of millions in China. Stand on a soapbox in the middle of Hollywood and proclaim your doubt of these events, and just watch the total lack of social or professional consequences that happen.

Meanwhile the jews are the worst victims ever and don't you dare suggest that anyone else's historical suffering is even comparable. Unless you're a somali congresstoken, that is.
 

Krokodil Overdose

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kiwifarms.net
I'm no skeptic but I do think that the sheer level of focus we give to the nazi genocide trivializes the other ones we don't teach our kids about. A million people died in Armenia, three million in Ukraine. Tens of millions in China. Stand on a soapbox in the middle of Hollywood and proclaim your doubt of these events, and just watch the total lack of social or professional consequences that happen.

Meanwhile the jews are the worst victims ever and don't you dare suggest that anyone else's historical suffering is even comparable. Unless you're a somali congresstoken, that is.
I think it was Nick Land who said that "Adverse Hitlerism is the state religion of most of the West, taught in school with remarkable zeal."
 

Coldgrip

OG Sexual Thug
kiwifarms.net
How much holocaust education should we push on children before we realize that no hate crime was committed due to a lack of holocaust education, and no hate crime was prevented by holocaust education.
I wonder how much holocaust education there's going to be before people get sick of it and start pushing back?
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
kiwifarms.net
I was wondering why this story seemed to drop off the radar. The NY Times has an article from two days ago that has some new details: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/nyregion/swastikas-playground-nyc-anti-semitism.html
Surely the bigotry that has been making more frequent appearances on the American stage since the Trump years is partly to blame.
Whatever the cause, it seems fairly clear that arresting 12-year-olds, especially at a time when criminal justice reform has concentrated on diverting young minorities from the system, cannot be considered a solution. There were many other forms a meaningful consequence could have taken.
This generation of children has grown up with constant screen time, inundated with an endless stream of images that eventually renders many of those visual signifiers meaningless, where Nazi symbolism is just processed as more cartoonish provocation.
In big cities where neighborhood demographics are so often changing and gentrification is often compelling those changes, a truly holistic approach to preventing acts of racial and ethnic bias would involve whole communities — children and their parents — coming together to learn about one another’s cultures, habits, histories, tastes, ambitions, doctrines, similarities. The process would be proactive rather than responsive.
"Current political climate", "they're just poor minorities", "black kids in prison :(", "the media's turning our kids into Nazis!", "fucking white people and gentrification": it's like a bingo card of progressive wanking. They would not have written any of this had it been a white kid.

New York is one of a number of states in which Holocaust education is mandated, but the general shift toward a greater focus on science, technology and mathematics and away from the humanities, happening across the education system and around the country, has pushed certain subjects and ideas dangerously into the rearview.
And WHAT? Humanities has never been more in vogue, it's required in most high schools and even more required in colleges, and there are record numbers of people getting useless shit degrees like gender studies, urban studies and so on.
 

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu
Christorical Figure
kiwifarms.net
I wonder how much holocaust education there's going to be before people get sick of it and start pushing back?
My words just a few posts ago notwithstanding, I will say there is definitely good reason to make sure society never forgets the holocaust. Racialist talk of extreme segregation and population control was all the rage in many intellectual circles for almost a hundred years leading right up to World War II. It's very reasonable to say that Hitler's campaign of genocide was the ultimate extension of that kind of societal attitude. Couple that with the fact that all of Europe had been at war with each other for nearly two millenia straight but only in the 20th century was the technology of war and science capable of practically achieving the genocidal dreams of racist demagogues without much effort - well, all of Europe damn well needs to remember, and keep remembering. The US needs to keep remembering, not just because stopping Hitler was the most noble thing this country ever did (as a direct action; I'm also pretty proud of our constitution), but because if we're not careful we can become cynical enough to dismiss another people as not really human and stop caring when they suffer*. Anyone can become that cynical. I don't agree with people who claim racism isn't natural. Knee-jerk xenophobia and selfish laziness are both natural to our genes, we have to fight to rise above them constantly. And in a world where powerful leaders can condemn an entire nation with a phone call because technology affords us that ability, we all need to remember. Because it can happen again.

That's the part that pisses me off about holocaust promoters. They seem to conveniently forget the "it could happen again" part every time you point out a case where it does happen again. Armenia and Ukraine and China and Cambodia and the forced relocations in Central Asia and so on aren't genocides to get enraged about, they're just "but that wasn't real socialism" and then let's change the subject to bitch about Trump. It's so headbangingly absurd to claim we can't forget the horrors of the nazis because it can happen again, and then fall prey to that same lazy xenophobia and dismiss when it obviously is happening again.

*And yes I will extend that to people here on the farms who legitimately believe that people in Africa or wherever are subhuman garbage and we should all let them rot. Yes there are plenty of parts of the world where the culture is self-reinforcing absolute poison and I'll be the first to join you in saying we need strict immigration control because letting them import their bullshit here is not the way to help anybody. But handwaving them all as low IQ or whatever is a very lazy way to justify saying they just don't have potential. It's no different at all than the socjus brigade that insists evil and selfishness are inherent to the white gene and only pocs can be good people. Moral value and human worth are not heritable genetic traits. But believing they are sadly seems to be coded deep into the most primitive parts of our brains.
 
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I knew this reminded me of something.... If this case was in Canada, the kids would have been taken from their parents, so I GUESS arresting a twelve year old is marginally better:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/foster-care-approved-for-kids-in-neo-nazi-case-1.951108

Anybody else remember those "Adolf Hitler European Tour" band-style shirts edgy teens used to wear in the early eighties? People would be hospitalized right, left, and center nowadays for PTSD if that happened.
689893
 

Krokodil Overdose

[|][||][||][|_]
kiwifarms.net
My words just a few posts ago notwithstanding, I will say there is definitely good reason to make sure society never forgets the holocaust. Racialist talk of extreme segregation and population control was all the rage in many intellectual circles for almost a hundred years leading right up to World War II. It's very reasonable to say that Hitler's campaign of genocide was the ultimate extension of that kind of societal attitude. Couple that with the fact that all of Europe had been at war with each other for nearly two millenia straight but only in the 20th century was the technology of war and science capable of practically achieving the genocidal dreams of racist demagogues without much effort - well, all of Europe damn well needs to remember, and keep remembering.
I disagree; organized mass murders have been a fact of human history since the dawn of time, and getting hung up on specific incidents as opposed to expounding broadly-applicable principles is what got us into this mess in the first place. Are the Mongols supposed to live in sack cloth and dump ashes on their heads because Genghis Khan deleted the Khwarzmians? (A: No, they're so proud of their history they build a giant fuckoff statue of the Great Khan instead.) Technology expands the range of outcomes by making it faster, cheaper, and more efficient, but that's the point: it's building on something that was already there, not introducing some new evil into the world. Focusing too much on the Holocaust (or any other specific instance) actually adds to this problem because it takes the focus off the "what" (the evil of mass murder) and onto the "who" (the evil of the Nazis.) Note that this is extremely convenient for other flavors of murderous demagogue, since as long as Nazis are the moral lodestone by which all evil is calculated, they can get away with anything as long as they're not Nazis- as we see happening in real life.

I suppose I should add here that there's a difference between remembering the past and wallowing in it, but I think once you start defining morality by history rather than the reverse (the Holocaust wasn't bad because it was the Nazis doing it, it was bad because it was mass murder) you cross that line. We, as a culture, need to get the fuck over the Second World War. It's over, it's been over for three generations, and the fact that it remains this cultural black hole that no event no matter how unrelated can be allowed to escape is just mind-blowing to me. What, are we going to start hyperventilating about the Ottoman Empire next? (A: No, because the Turks are brown, Muslim, and not self-flagellating cucks about their past.)

The US needs to keep remembering, not just because stopping Hitler was the most noble thing this country ever did
I think the eastern bloc is distinctly unimpressed by the nobility of our actions there.
 

Alec Benson Leary

Creator of Asperchu
Christorical Figure
kiwifarms.net
I disagree; organized mass murders have been a fact of human history since the dawn of time, and getting hung up on specific incidents as opposed to expounding broadly-applicable principles is what got us into this mess in the first place. Are the Mongols supposed to live in sack cloth and dump ashes on their heads because Genghis Khan deleted the Khwarzmians? (A: No, they're so proud of their history they build a giant fuckoff statue of the Great Khan instead.) Technology expands the range of outcomes by making it faster, cheaper, and more efficient, but that's the point: it's building on something that was already there, not introducing some new evil into the world. Focusing too much on the Holocaust (or any other specific instance) actually adds to this problem because it takes the focus off the "what" (the evil of mass murder) and onto the "who" (the evil of the Nazis.) Note that this is extremely convenient for other flavors of murderous demagogue, since as long as Nazis are the moral lodestone by which all evil is calculated, they can get away with anything as long as they're not Nazis- as we see happening in real life.
This is very well put. I think it's kind of the same thing I was thinking, but you put it into better words in a way I wasn't considering. I totally agree that the nazis have been made into the moral lodestone that excuses the same evil by anyone who makes a song and dance about opposing nazis, that's exactly what has happened. We focus too much on demonizing an identity and then ass-backwards applying morality to their actions based on that instead of judging actions for what they are and then identifying any group by what evil they choose to do no matter what name they have.
 

GrungyLawnChlorinate

Ja, ik accepteer cookies.
kiwifarms.net
And in Orange County, Calif., a group of high-school students came under fire for building a swastika out of red, plastic beer cups during a drinking game at a party. Were they bilious members of the alt-right?

When one participant apologized on social media, she said that she considered what she and her friends had done as “a joke” and “not a big deal,” until photos of the incident went viral and they realized the seriousness of their antics.
It wasn't a big deal. It was high school kids being edgy. It was a swastika made of solo cups. No one was hurt.

"Were they alt-right?" Really now, seriously?

The media really are the enemy of the people, the primary enemy of the Western world. That cannot be repeated enough, especially now that the act of criticizing the lefty media has been demonized so.

I wonder how much holocaust education there's going to be before people get sick of it and start pushing back?
No doubt many are, it's just you aren't allowed to say so, that'd be anti-semitic. Do you want to be shunned as a racist? Losing your job or even career is a solid possibility in today's wacko PC/SJW climate.

It was about 15 years ago I myself became fed up with the constant holocaust posturing after the History Channel had over the years become the Holocaust Self-Flagellation Channel. You can't really talk about that in public, even though I know many others who noticed the same thing. You have to speak in low tones, make sure no one hears you, as you know you're speaking heresy that can get you labeled as a racist. And that was 15years ago, when for a private individual you likely wouldn't be stalked, harassed, and persecuted if those opinions were revealed! The fear was real, and had already pervaded most everywhere.

Nowadays not only can that ruin your life, but it can be made to be a red mark on the permanent record that is your internet life. Look at that article above, look at how they are treating an incident of naughty playground chalking. 12 year old kids were arrested! Our world is fucked. Little by little we are building a dystopia that can only be rolled back via world wars, or at least a massive civil war. Things are not getting better, the dominant voices in the media and in politics in Western countries are truly insane and terrifying.
 
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Smaug's Smokey Hole

Fus Ro Dank
kiwifarms.net
I knew this reminded me of something.... If this case was in Canada, the kids would have been taken from their parents, so I GUESS arresting a twelve year old is marginally better:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/foster-care-approved-for-kids-in-neo-nazi-case-1.951108

Anybody else remember those "Adolf Hitler European Tour" band-style shirts edgy teens used to wear in the early eighties? People would be hospitalized right, left, and center nowadays for PTSD if that happened.
View attachment 689893
A comedy couple that would give people PTSD these days.
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2Edgy4TV now:
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It painted the Nazi's as buffoons(and with the guy on the far right, flamboyantly homosexual). Ridiculing or in some cases making them mundane and boring was something a lot of comedy did back when it was allowed to joke about them and I think that was more efficient to curb recruitment/uptake than the current hysterical crying and fear mongering over what largely seems to be /pol/ shitposters.
 

Tim Buckley

Suffering
kiwifarms.net
Pro tip: If someone catches you drawing a swastika, just say that it's a graphical representation of a mixed strategy Nash Equilibrium. Works every time!
I used to draw swastikas on the board waiting for the teacher on german classes at high school, raise my hand ala nazi salute and say "hail" every now and then, this would piss him off hard since he was an actual German but my country has not been cucked yet by jews like "the first world" so I never got in trouble nor would I.
 

Traummaschine

kiwifarms.net
I was wondering why this story seemed to drop off the radar. The NY Times has an article from two days ago that has some new details: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/nyregion/swastikas-playground-nyc-anti-semitism.html
Last year a study conducted by the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, for example, interviewed 1,350 American adults and found that 66 percent of millennial respondents could not identify Auschwitz as a concentration camp.
Is this really that surprising? 2/3 of the american millennials asked couldn't recognize this foreign word. Wow. How many percent of those would even know what Poland is? Probably less than those 1/3.

I think if it's one thing western kids remember after finishing school it's that those bad nazis gassed the poor 6 million jews during WW2. My experience is that it was something that was almost always relevant to bring up. It was part of the moral compass, because it was easy to understand for kids and very much part of the package teachers wanted to teach: Treating people differently was bad, and could lead to this - The ultimate evil.

So we see that today, if someone doesn't like something it will quickly be compared to the nazis. Despite all this the average person knows very little about them besides that they were evil and killed 6 million jews. If you actually start quizzing people about concentration camps besides gassing they rarely have any idea.
 

Truthspeaker

Walking that line between victim and ex-lover
kiwifarms.net
Most American are lucky to get 19th Century History, let alone 20th.

Forced Holocaust education in Texas made me a Holocaust skeptic.
maybe they shouldn't force the holocaust down our throats and commercialize it?
So this means you believe only three-million Jews were killed rather than six?

That the Soviets did most of the killing?

That the Holocaust was primarily an anti-Soviet measure, even though the Reich aligned themselves with the Soviets after the Night of Broken Glass?

Or are you just sick of Lefties?

I'm sick of 'em to, but this is no different from denying Holdomor because you're a Leftie, or what's going on in Xinjiang because you hate Islam.
 

Oglooger

God isn't dead!BUT I'LL GET THAT BASTARD SOME DAY!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Most American are lucky to get 19th Century History, let alone 20th.


So this means you believe only three-million Jews were killed rather than six?

That the Soviets did most of the killing?

That the Holocaust was primarily an anti-Soviet measure, even though the Reich aligned themselves with the Soviets after the Night of Broken Glass?

Or are you just sick of Lefties?

I'm sick of 'em to, but this is no different from denying Holdomor because you're a Leftie, or what's going on in Xinjiang because you hate Islam.
Both reasons.
 
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