User Sub 2014-03-03 Pics: New photos of 14 Branchland Court -

[Thetan]

Credit for these new pics goes to Ruckersvillian. I asked him in a recent PM conversation if he could do a drive-by when he was in the area, and he was kind enough to oblige.

There doesn't seem to have been much activity as far as construction goes, but there is one of those huge dumpsters on-site. The large plastic-wrapped objects (refrigerators?) appear to be gone and all of the cars are gone, except for Chris's Cadillac. I thought Chris was still driving the Cadillac. Maybe he was there when the pics were taken.

Ruckersvillian's Latest Pics:
http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Ruckersvillian/library/Chandler_Home_March_2014?sort=3&page=1

CWCki Forums Backup

 

[Null]

Re: New Post-Fire Pics of 14 Branchland Court - 3/3/2014

I don't know why I'm surprised, but they're very slow on the clean-up. Here's what happens (in my experience from fire).

Hour 0: The fire fighters put out the fire. In my instance, the fire fighters had contacts with contractors that specialize in debris and they're also notified.
Day 1: The contractors arrive on the scene, your insurance is notified. The city lets you know you have X number of months to clean up the debris or you will be fined. They also usually suggest boarding up the windows and doors.
Day 2: The insurance company has placed you in temporary residence as a part of Type D coverage. You are now in talks with contractors. You have boarded up the windows and doors to cover your ass.
Day 7-14: The insurance company has done their tests and you have been paid out if it's deemed you did not start the fire. By this point you have a contractor, a course of action, and the money to pay them. It took us over a month to get a payout, but that was due to the case being an arson case. The company was also making sure there was a prosecution involved.

The contractors have a specialized business. Some focus in restoration of objects with smoke or fire damage. Some do complete renovations. Some are merely demolitionists. You may even be contacted by real estate agents. What all these people want to get is a cut of a traumatized, homeless person's insurance payout (A & B & C, for the house, its property, and any outside structures that might also have been burned). They're very, very excited and anxious to get to work so there's a ton of pressure. We actually got taken out to dinner for free by one of the contractors.

You do have some time to choose, but a major thing that everyone advocates doing is boarding up the home. This is actually done. It takes only a day or two, but you really want to bolt down wood to all the windows (that are usually shattered if it's a large fire), and you want to lock all the doors with something bolt cutters would have trouble with. This is because teenage delinquents or thieves may try to break in, but the threat isn't stealing your stuff. If one of these people breaks into your smoke and water damaged home, and slips and injures themselves, you are 100% liable. There have been successful lawsuits under these circumstances.

This all happens very quickly. You're given a lump payout and many options by different people in the business who all know each other and who know the fire department. The fact that 2 months down the road I don't see any construction and they haven't even hauled shit out of the house (the dump truck doesn't appear to have anything in it) is a sign that Barb is haulting progress or actively refusing to cooperate and get things done. Imagine an episode of Hoarders where the person storms off set after having their favorite Dali Lama recreation stolen. That's what's happened here.

 

[Some JERK]

Is it possible that Chris publicly contacting/accusing Keurig via facebook and subsequent interactions between them could also have seriously jammed things up from State Farms perspective?

 

[CWCissey]

Or could they have deemed that the fire could have been prevented, therefore they refuse to pay out towards the stupidity of the Chandlers?

 

[Carlson]

Or could they have deemed that the fire could have been prevented, therefore they refuse to pay out towards the stupidity of the Chandlers?

From what I understand, you only miss out on 100% of the payment if the fire is 100% your fault, such as arson or gross negligence. Yes, yes, technically Chris and Barb are 100% responsible because they filled their home with massive amounts of flammable materials that blocked potential exits and Chris plugged a coffee maker into an outlet that couldn't handle the load. But in actual insurance terms, the fire would likely be considered accidental and the Chandlers merely provided problems that allowed it to spread and cause more damage than it ordinarily would. So at worst, they're not getting as much money as they would have if there was no horde and the coffee maker just randomly sparked.

 

[Holdek]

Is it possible that Chris publicly contacting/accusing Keurig via facebook and subsequent interactions between them could also have seriously jammed things up from State Farms perspective?

I don't think so. I believe State Farm would pay money to the Chandlers regardless. Any legal issues between State Farm and Keurig would come later (although this would be very unlikely anyway).

Or could they have deemed that the fire could have been prevented, therefore they refuse to pay out towards the stupidity of the Chandlers?

This was already asked by me in another update thread and the verdict on that possibility was and Void.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Or could they have deemed that the fire could have been prevented, therefore they refuse to pay out towards the stupidity of the Chandlers?

I pretty sure most insurance policies distinguish between ill intent and stupidity. I think this has been discussed already.

 

[Backwards Harvester]

This could be Game Over for 14 Branchland Court. I don't know, but I've got this feeling that this could be it.

But you all have brought up some pretty good points though concerning fire insurance and liability. The hoard, as some people have said, could play a major role in how much insurance will pay out. Someone said that if the fire inspectors ( either from the insurance company, or the town wold determine the cause and contributing factors that led to the massive blaze. Now I'm pretty sure that there was plenty of flammable stuff in the hoard, that could have acted as a good fuel... I don't think they do dishes or anything so I think it would be a safe bet to assume that whatever was laying around in the kitchen accelerated the fire. Possible cooking oils, alcohol ( The bathroom may have had rubbing alcohol as well) Plastic, paper products.. I bet they eat a lot of their food from plastic or paper plates or Styrofoam plates which would have accelerated the fire even more. If it got into Chris's room ... Well, plastic galore there. Then of course, I'm not sure how many flammable materials there were in the hoard, but there must have been a shit ton. And the attic must have had its share ( excluding lumber) of forgotten stuff that took up space for ages. Any flammable trash, well that's gone too. Wooden furniture; Fire fuel.
Now here's some stuff to consider. If the majority of the stuff that burned up is nothing but ash and soot, wouldn't it make it harder to prove that there was a mess and a hoard in there at the time of the fire? I'm thinking that would make things a bit more difficult to determine. Of course the fire would have to burn these things away completely, but once something is ash, it's kind of hard to determine what it was and how much it contributed to the fire. My guess is that most of the hoard could have been utterly incinerated.
Depending how much Dumb and Fugly are determined to be at fault, then14 BC could be repaired and cleaned, left as an eyesore and abandoned , or outright torn down.
What I do know, is that we may not know for a while yet, unless someone flies a remote-controlled helicopter with lights and lightweight camera into the house to scope out the damage, and safely get it back out, Chances are we're not going to know the full extent of the damage. As for how it would get in, the hole in the roof would be the best bet, if that hasn't been repaired yet. Then again I highly doubt anyone's going to spend the time, money and effort it takes to do that, let alone risk losing the equipment in there.
Of course, True, this stuff takes time to get sorted out, But because of the factors in place I can't say I a good outlook on the fate of 14 BC...
I hope I'm wrong though.
That's just my two cents.

 

[A-№1]

There doesn't seem to have been much activity as far as construction goes, but there is one of those huge dumpsters on-site.

I wish we had a better view of the roof. That would be a better indicator of work progress than the dumpster. I've been expecting a dumpster to show up at 14BLC for some time now, but it only indicates that the rebuild has started. Do we know how long it has been there or how full it is or what's in it?

We won't see much on site construction until the site has been completely cleaned out, and I mean completely. Given the size of the hoard, that could take some time and probably more than one dumpster. And it will be delayed even more if Chris and Barb are involved in the cleanup, slowing things down as they try to save their treasures. We shouldn't expect to see any actual construction at the site until we start seeing drywall in the dumpster.

A permit / lien search would give a definitive answer on how things are progressing.

I don't know why I'm surprised, but they're very slow on the clean-up. Here's what happens (in my experience from fire).

A lot depends on Virginia law and also on how State Farm handles large fire claims. Some states and companies just make an estimate on the cost to rebuild and hand over a check. The homeowner is then responsible for hiring a general contractor and paying to rebuild the home. The homeowner can dispute the settlement with another estimate of their own, but insurers are pretty good at these estimates. Barb also strikes me as the sort of person who takes the first offer.

If this is the case for 14BLC, it's no wonder things are progressing slowly (and unlikely things will end well). Finding a good general contractor from among all the bad ones (and there are a LOT of bad ones, unfortunately) is hard enough for normal people, so Chris and Barb better be really damn lucky with the first one they find. Whatever general contractor they do get will have his work cut out for him trying to work with them, as well. Who would want Barb for their employer? Of course Barb could try to save some money by GCing the rebuild herself. That would get ugly fast. I can easily see Chris and Barb delay and fail to deal with things until their rental allotment runs out. Or spend on themselves the money they should be spending on contractors, ending up with no home, a lot of debt, and a stack of construction liens against their gutted wreck of a former house.

It could be, though, that State Farm is handling the reconstruction and paying for it themselves. Many insurers prefer to do things this way if the state allows it. The insurer will have a list of competent contractors who are willing to give a discount on work in exchange for guaranteed employment. The insurer can save a lot on the claim, and insurance companies tend to pay on time and in full, and believe me, "on time" and "in full" mean a LOT to contractors.

It would probably be best for Chris and Barb for that to be the case for 14BLC. It's the best chance they have for getting their home rebuilt competently and timely. However I would have expected a lot more activity at 14BLC by now if State Farm were hiring the GC. It could be that their regular contractors are currently busy with other projects or the winter has delayed them. They could also be waiting on building permits. The permitting process can be unbelievably slow and obtuse (and expensive) in some places, and I wouldn't be surprised if Greene County is one of them.

The longer it takes before we see real activity at 14BLC, the bleaker its prospects become.

 

[CaptainDong]

I wish we had a better view of the roof.

I agree with you. I thought I was just reading too much into the photos, but when you compare these recent pics with the pre-fire pics, it looks like there is a pretty large chunk of roof that's either missing, or has caved in between the upper left window and the door. Given the pretty rough winter the east coast has seen, is it possible that the roof may have given way?

 

[A-№1]

I thought I was just reading too much into the photos, but when you compare these recent pics with the pre-fire pics, it looks like there is a pretty large chunk of roof that's either missing, or has caved in between the upper left window and the door. Given the pretty rough winter the east coast has seen, is it possible that the roof may have given way?

Even from the low angle of these pictures it's pretty obvious that a large section of the roof simply isn't there, both on the front and back side of the structure. Just look at the original roof line and the trees that can be seen behind the house where the roof line isn't any more.

This looks like a much larger hole than I saw in earlier pictures, and a larger one than the pictures of the fire should have accounted for. I doubt the roof has collapsed under the weather as that would probably have pulled the tarping on the edge of the hole down inside the structure with it. From the roughly rectangular shape of the hole and how it seems to go from eave to ridge I suspect that a number of rafters have been removed for replacement, but I can't be sure of that from this camera angle, and I don't know why work would have halted after removing the rafters. Replacing the roof is the first priority in a job like this since it protects all the work that will need to be done under it. It could have been delayed by the weather, but it would have to have been pretty bad weather for that. Inclement weather is usually an incentive to get the roof repaired even sooner, and roofers tend to be tough as nails and well used to working through just about everything nature can throw at them.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

^God, I hadn't even noticed the roof. Thanks for the keen eye.

 

[CaptainDong]

This looks like a much larger hole than I saw in earlier pictures, and a larger one than the pictures of the fire should have accounted for. I doubt the roof has collapsed under the weather as that would probably have pulled the tarping on the edge of the hole down inside the structure with it. From the roughly rectangular shape of the hole and how it seems to go from eave to ridge I suspect that a number of rafters have been removed for replacement, but I can't be sure of that from this camera angle, and I don't know why work would have halted after removing the rafters. Replacing the roof is the first priority in a job like this since it protects all the work that will need to be done under it. It could have been delayed by the weather, but it would have to have been pretty bad weather for that. Inclement weather is usually an incentive to get the roof repaired even sooner, and roofers tend to be tough as nails and well used to working through just about everything nature can throw at them.

I didn't want to jump to any conclusions on the roof, which was why I brought it up here. Something about these photos just isn't sitting right with me though. There doesn't seem to be any signs of recent activity there at all, other than the front yard seems to be cleaned up a little. But there isn't any signs of a construction company there at all. If they were in the process of doing work to the roof, you would think there would be scaffolding, or materials on the property somewhere, and I just don't see that here.

 

[DJAndyMD]

I didn't want to jump to any conclusions on the roof, which was why I brought it up here. Something about these photos just isn't sitting right with me though. There doesn't seem to be any signs of recent activity there at all, other than the front yard seems to be cleaned up a little. But there isn't any signs of a construction company there at all. If they were in the process of doing work to the roof, you would think there would be scaffolding, or materials on the property somewhere, and I just don't see that here.

There are some speculating that someone or something is holding back repairs. In order to fix the roof, they need to clear anything around it, which might be stuff from that part of the house and knowing how Barb might react to having her precious being thrown out, it might be a slowdown. However, something tells me that the roof might be the least of the concern if that is what looks like the only outer damage seen. We have no idea what the inside looks like and if the insurance company found something much more serious. Like we all said, its mere speculation.

 

[milkshark]

There are some speculating that someone or something is holding back repairs. In order to fix the roof, they need to clear anything around it, which might be stuff from that part of the house and knowing how Barb might react to having her precious being thrown out, it might be a slowdown. However, something tells me that the roof might be the least of the concern if that is what looks like the only outer damage seen. We have no idea what the inside looks like and if the insurance company found something much more serious. Like we all said, its mere speculation.

Listen, even normal people who don't hoard have issues with their homes due to unaddressed maintenance. We know Chris and Barb have experienced infestation problems, and it was so bad that it exacerbated Bob's ailing health before he passed away. The fire left a lot of the house untouched, meaning any and all vermin are probably still living in 14BC. The infestation can't be addressed with a full hoard in the way, and anyone who watches Hoarders knows that trying to reason with these packrats is impossible even in the face if health and sanity. I'd guess Barb won't allow exterminators near her treasures, halting any repair work indefinitely.

 

[DJAndyMD]

Listen, even normal people who don't hoard have issues with their homes due to unaddressed maintenance. We know Chris and Barb have experienced infestation problems, and it was so bad that it exacerbated Bob's ailing health before he passed away. The fire left a lot of the house untouched, meaning any and all vermin are probably still living in 14BC. The infestation can't be addressed with a full hoard in the way, and anyone who watches Hoarders knows that trying to reason with these packrats is impossible even in the face if health and sanity. I'd guess Barb won't allow exterminators near her treasures, halting any repair work indefinitely.

Yeah, that's my speculation. I am guessing maybe they found something with the electrical wiring or other structural problems that is halting the repairs. Cause I doubt its vermin.

 

[Anchuent Christory]

At the end of the day, repairs require people to perform them, and those people require a safe environment to work in. 14 Branchland Court was anything but safe, even before the fire. That said, the fact that something's clearly been done would suggest any issues regarding safety have been resolved.

So would the contractors survey the site, give an estimate, then get paid based off this estimate regardless of time spent? I mean, in my experience, construction firms don't spin their wheels if there's no extra money in it for them.

 

[Misto]

I asked one of my clients at Nationwide Insurance. He said that insurance companies have negotiated deals with contractors that guarantee exclusivity and X amount of work per year. The contractors would come in, give an initial estimate, then if other things are discovered when work begins, they issue a revised estimate. It is then evaluated by the insurance company. If it's approved, they proceed with the work. If not, it's sent back and something's worked out or they may get a competing estimate from another (authorized) vendor.

He said in this specific case (I talked about "a guy I knew that had a house fire a couple of months ago") that they may have discovered something that greatly affected the initial estimates and would require a lot more work before the contractors could work - he mentioned that it's very common to discover that those houses have foundation problems that have been unattended for years, and the foundation has to be repaired before anything else can be done.

In that case, because the foundation was damaged *prior* to the fire, it would not be covered. If that's the case, the owner has to have that fixed out of pocket before other repairs can proceed.

Not sure how it is in CWCVille but in my part of Texas foundation problems are *very* common.

 

[Venusaur]

In that case, because the foundation was damaged *prior* to the fire, it would not be covered. If that's the case, the owner has to have that fixed out of pocket before other repairs can proceed. Not sure how it is in CWCVille but in my part of Texas foundation problems are *very* common.

Interesting, so in the hypothetical scenario that "something was discovered" and it wasn't covered. What would happen if Barbara couldn't afford it? Would everything be at a standstill until the money appeared? Would the insurance company pay for their hotel for an extended period?

 

[Misto]

Depending on the type of coverage they have, insurance will pay for a hotel stay for up to 20% of the policy's value - so if the house and its contents are valued at $120,000, they will get up to $24,000 in living expenses. So they should be set for a while. They may be able to negotiate using part of that to pay for those repairs, but that will bring everything to a stop until it goes through all necessary channels and is approved.

Another thing mentioned - there's three levels of home insurance. The first one is too restrictive, the second one is the most common and most likely what they have. That will have a cap of up to 70% of the property value to replace any items inside. So, assuming they have that level of coverage, and the house was valued at $80,000, they would get up to $56,000 to replace their possessions. However that will get very complicated as they need to provide receipts, serial numbers, etc. My friend mentioned that it is very very unlikely that they will get anything close to that 70%.

If they hadn't reviewed their policy in a long time, it may also have been that their coverage was set for what the house was worth in 2000 or some other random year (whenever they last negotiated their coverage). People in California, Florida and NY often find out that their property value is much higher than what they have coverage for, because home prices go up so much there, so they are SOL when they need to find a new place comparable to what they used to have - you get $150k for your house but the average home price in your area is now $300k. However, I think the risk of that happening in Ruckersville is minimal.