2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Trump vs. Biden

Who is the best choice for President of the United States in 2020?


  • Total voters
    1,479

Fanatical Pragmatist

kiwifarms.net
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe Trump conspired with other countries to get elected, and that's not the point I was making. My point was simply that Trump clearly has more affection for autocrats than democratically elected leaders, and his various statements prove it. My other point was that Trump has a devil-may-care attitude towards the protocols and the responsibilities of his office: again, something which is made obvious by the countless things he's said and done since he was elected President.
That's because he'll blow flattery at people he's trying to get to the negotiating table (i.e. Fat Boy Kim and Chairman Xi).
Additionally, leaders such as Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu and Abe are all democratically elected (at least if Der Furher Merkel counts as democratically elected).

The only real "autocrats" he's straight praised are Putin (oh no! how dare the US and Russia not be enemies!) and Muhammed Bin Salman - and the only reason MBS is getting so much hate is because someone in his government dared go against the Western Holy Protocol of never killing a journo, and maybe possibly because the Neolib/Neocon clique is in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood of whom he's trying to kick out of Saudi Arabia.

I don't disagree with any of this. Trump is a symptom of a problem rather than the problem itself, but the fact remains that his ascendancy represents a sad turn for American politics. A healthy democracy would never have elected Trump.
Trump is a sign of a healthy democracy.
If voters putting the interests of international cliques and global elites in front of their own families and livelihoods is "healthy", then I'm not sure you understand the point of democracy.

I'm certainly not calling for people to ignore history; on the contrary, I think an understanding of history is very important if you wish to determine the trajectory your society heading on. The crucial question to ask here is how has Donald Trump's presidency affected America's trajectory? Has it had an altogether positive effect, or a negative one? Politically and diplomatically, I think the answer is pretty obvious.
I would say its positive.

I mean he/we still have a ways to go with pulling out of the Middle East and hopefully less entanglement with the Eurocrats; but its certainly better than the last 3 presidents.

Trump busts our allies because he can afford to - they're already our allies. Banging the table to Merkel and asking her to pay more for NATO (for example) doesn't mean he dislikes democratically elected leaders.
Yeah, that and they need to make up their minds of whether or not they are our allies, especially Germany/Merkel.
The Krauts want to eat their cake and have it too.
They want to simultaneously run Europe's affairs and "bring [their neighbors] in line" with EU shit; but also want the US to keep Russia at bay for them while not paying their fair share of the "Keep Russia at bay" fund.
 

spiritofamermaid

2 Commission Spots Left
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That's because he'll blow flattery at people he's trying to get to the negotiating table (i.e. Fat Boy Kim and Chairman Xi).
Additionally, leaders such as Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu and Abe are all democratically elected (at least if Der Furher Merkel counts as democratically elected).

The only real "autocrats" he's straight praised are Putin (oh no! how dare the US and Russia not be enemies!) and Muhammed Bin Salman - and the only reason MBS is getting so much hate is because someone in his government dared go against the Western Holy Protocol of never killing a journo, and maybe possibly because the Neolib/Neocon clique is in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood of whom he's trying to kick out of Saudi Arabia.


Trump is a sign of a healthy democracy.
If voters putting the interests of international cliques and global elites in front of their own families and livelihoods is "healthy", then I'm not sure you understand the point of democracy.


I would say its positive.

I mean he/we still have a ways to go with pulling out of the Middle East and hopefully less entanglement with the Eurocrats; but its certainly better than the last 3 presidents.


Yeah, that and they need to make up their minds of whether or not they are our allies, especially Germany/Merkel.
The Krauts want to eat their cake and have it too.
They want to simultaneously run Europe's affairs and "bring [their neighbors] in line" with EU shit; but also want the US to keep Russia at bay for them while not paying their fair share of the "Keep Russia at bay" fund.
Plus they [Germany, aka the EU] buy energy (natural gas) from Russia, making it so Russia has in some way control over them. Which is funny considering they all scream about "Russia bad!". Why should the US send our men to defend them, when they willingly sold themselves over because "muh nuclear bad"?
 

FuckedUp

kiwifarms.net
I really want to see how Gen Z is processing this information.
Hnnngggggg...must...not...powerlevel...

fuck

As a late '99er in the 1997-01 "early zoomer" bracket, I was in a small discord server filled with people also in that bracket. I said colleges should reopen in the fall, and immediately, in the span of ten seconds, five different users said one after another that in-person is evil grandma-killing capitalism or something. Left the server immediately afterward but a mod PM'd me saying I was banned anyway.

Though on the other hand, someone at my school replied to a mass-email about online classes saying they're sick of this shit. Similar sentiment among my IRL friends.

Syaoran Li is spot-on about the whole subgeneration breakdown (except late zoomers are middle schoolers and elementary school upperclassmen). People within a year of my age comprise the last two years of "early zoomers" and there's really no set political views for us: there's about as many ANTIFA ancom trannies my age as there are pro-Trump /pol/-addicts.

Always noticed myself that 2002 babies are appreciably more conservative than those even a year older, and this is going to be set in stone because they're the ones who got cheated out of senior prom and high school graduation.
 

Syaoran Li

Manager of the Goth IHOP
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm certainly not calling for people to ignore history; on the contrary, I think an understanding of history is very important if you wish to determine the trajectory your society heading on. The crucial question to ask here is how has Donald Trump's presidency affected America's trajectory? Has it had an altogether positive effect, or a negative one? Politically and diplomatically, I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Actually the answer is not obvious. We won't know until Trump is out of office, the legacy of a leader usually isn't apparent until they've already left office.

Obama and Bush were the two worst presidents in my life, and their administrations did more to harm America than any administration in decades.

The only post-Civil War presidents who I'd consider to be far worse would be Andrew Johnson, Woodrow Wilson, and Warren G. Harding. LBJ and Nixon were mixed bags, and Carter was well-meaning but largely ineffective and inept as a president.
 

Hellbound Hellhound

kiwifarms.net
I don't necessarily buy this. I haven't read "The Art of the Deal", and people who have can clue me in to how Trump's negotiating strategy in that book is reflected in how he deals with the leaders of other countries. But I don't think public statements he makes (about, say, what a swell fella Lil' Kim is) reflects what's actually going on in his mind. I don't think he actually admires the DPRK. It's a strategy in negotiating where you butter-up somebody when you want something from them, or you want to make yourself look publicly magnanimous and willing to compromise, so you don't look bad when the relationship goes to shit ("Well, I tried!"). I'm not a "Trump always plays 4D chess" guy, but a lot of times he does.

Trump busts our allies because he can afford to - they're already our allies. Banging the table to Merkel and asking her to pay more for NATO (for example) doesn't mean he dislikes democratically elected leaders.
Ingratiating yourself towards despots while pushing away democratic allies is a surefire way to achieve the precise opposite of what you claim, and the evidence clearly shows that it is achieving the opposite. America's relationship with it's allies has been significantly strained over the last 4 years, and Trump has nothing to show for it but broken treaties.

America isn't one of Trump's businesses: you can't just file for bankruptcy and hope to start again when things go pear-shaped.
That's because he'll blow flattery at people he's trying to get to the negotiating table (i.e. Fat Boy Kim and Chairman Xi).
Additionally, leaders such as Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu and Abe are all democratically elected (at least if Der Furher Merkel counts as democratically elected).
Bolsonaro has frequently hinted that Brazil should return to military dictatorship, and Orban has recently forced reforms through parliament that will allow him to rule by decree, potentially indefinitely. If they're not autocrats already, they're certainly aspiring to be.
Trump is a sign of a healthy democracy.
If voters putting the interests of international cliques and global elites in front of their own families and livelihoods is "healthy", then I'm not sure you understand the point of democracy.
A healthy democracy would elect a leader who can actually make good on those promises, not merely offer the electorate easy answers which won't materialize. A responsible leader would address the real reasons US manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to other countries, why so many illegal immigrants are residing in the United States, and why healthcare in America is so extortionately expensive, and try to come up with solutions which best suit the American people. Trump measurably isn't doing any of that.
I would say its positive.

I mean he/we still have a ways to go with pulling out of the Middle East and hopefully less entanglement with the Eurocrats; but its certainly better than the last 3 presidents.
Better how? America is in chaos right now, in no small part because it's leadership refused to listen to expert opinion regarding the appropriate quarantine procedures.
 

XYZpdq

fbi most wanted sskealeaton
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
so anything new in Harris vs And The Rest for Biden's VP spot?
 

Tathagata

He who has thus come/gone
kiwifarms.net
so anything new in Harris vs And The Rest for Biden's VP spot?
There is a sudden push in the media for Karen Bass, another pozzed rep in the House from California, leader of the Black Congressional Caucus, and general no-name ugly looking black woman. It's somewhat interesting to me how she materialized out of nowhere. Maybe they're leaking info to see how people respond? But I still think it will be Kamala, unless there are secret power plays going on in the cliques controlling Biden's candidacy over her and her history.
 

Slimy Time

Read 'em and weep
kiwifarms.net
Back to the VP thing

If not Harris then who? The DNC sure fucked themselves in the ass with that promise of a strong proud black woman of color VP bit.

The list is crazy thin and there is no backing out of it now, not after all the racial shit stirring the Democrats have done.

So it has to be Harris I think. Which of course only makes the run that much harder as she brings nothing to the ticket but a whole lotta baggage.
Harris would be the worst choice for Veep possible. She was without a doubt the most unlikable person during the DNC nominee race. She got wrecked by surf mommy and checked out early as well. Fucking Julian Castro lasted longer than she did. You could NOT pick a worse VP.

So of course, she's going to be chosen. That I am now certain post newspaper cockup. Chosen purely because BLM the riots and racial tension are the thing they are going to lean on for the election, and they need a fake black who has nothing in common with the average black to be a mouth piece and stir the pot.
 

Hyrip123876

Chernobyl FM
kiwifarms.net
I don't doubt that Russia *did* attempt to interfere in 2016, but it's been blown way the hell out of proportion. Collusion has been thoroughly debunked by the sheer scope and scale of the Mueller investigation. Most of Russia's efforts were shitposting ads and memes on social media. But since It Was Her Turn, the Dems chose to make Putin into an omnicompetent-yet-elusive Emmanuel Goldstein rather than admit their own hubris.
But it was always absurd having the Democrats get all sombre about Russian interference. This is the party all about tolerance and inclusion yet taps into Russophobia the country was trained to have during the Cold War to undermine a populist president. The sad reality is they get away with vilifying Russians because they've also been training the public since OWS that only white peoples are acceptable targets for being judged as a collective.
Now we have this weird proxy decision to make in 2020, where if you vote D our cold war 2 adversary will be Russia, and if you vote R it'll be China.
Also what nobody wants to address is how every country tries to influence everybody else's elections.
Obama endorsed the UK remaining in the EU. Trump endorsed Netanyahu. Every European country that had an opinion in 2016 low-key called anybody who didn't support Clinton a crowd of social spastics-- and this consensus was palpable on the internet. This doesn't have to be a conspiracy either. Allies, rivals, whatever. If you can work with a state right now you generally want consistency. Them changing tactics potentially means your own position is disadvantaged, and what the Deep State and Democrats have shown is they're happy to play the part of 5th Column to keep the show on the road. The Russia hoax, assorted court fuckery, and the failed impeachment successfully sapped Trump of his political capital. If he ever intended to reshape international affairs in a meaningful way, we'll never know. And we won't know how he'd change the country on a domestic level either or if he was content to grandstand whilst the GOP continue the grift of an incompetent oligarchy
 

Tathagata

He who has thus come/gone
kiwifarms.net
Chosen purely because BLM the riots and racial tension are the thing they are going to lean on for the election, and they need a fake black who has nothing in common with the average black to be a mouth piece and stir the pot.
She's half desi, half Jamaican, so I'm not even sure how much she'll resonate with the actual African American community. Well, she didn't at all in the primaries, so I guess that's the answer. She's also married to a (((white))) guy with no children, and that certainly will have an effect on how members of the black community see her. Of course, the media doesn't like to talk about that, and black people generally keep that stuff close to their chest. Point is, I'm not really sure who she's supposed to enthuse other than wine moms who treat social justice as their new cathedral.
 

Slimy Time

Read 'em and weep
kiwifarms.net
She's half desi, half Jamaican, so I'm not even sure how much she'll resonate with the actual African American community. Well, she didn't at all in the primaries, so I guess that's the answer. She's also married to a (((white))) guy with no children, and that certainly will have an effect on how members of the black community see her. Of course, the media doesn't like to talk about that, and black people generally keep that stuff close to their chest. Point is, I'm not really sure who she's supposed to enthuse other than wine moms who treat social justice as their new cathedral.
Didn't even spend most of her formative years in America. Went and graduated in Canada. Both parents were successful, so she has nothing linking her to the average black in America. She's like Obama, they both had to learn to "be black" when running for office. Remember early in her campaign she went onto this breakfast radio show with other blacks and they asked her about her years growing up. "Yeah, I listened to Tupac when I was in college, I did weed, for sure"...a few years before he dropped his first album.
 

Cubanodun

Metal Synthpop Hero
kiwifarms.net
ultimate voter suppression is telling people that they do not have a voice.
Or his famous "if you dont vote someone else is going to do it for you", it generate people not trusting the system because is implied that someone is going to cheat

in terms of campaign strategy and instead also ran the worst campaign ever run.
From my perspective and using banana republic citizen knowledge of american politics her campaign was torpedoed for day 1 for the reason that even here her victory was PROMISED even in cable news like CNN latin america, i found amusing how people considered a matter of fact her victory and were very smug about it, doesnt help that her base insulted, humiliated, called the other side names and everyone that did not follow the lines of the party get declared a -ist, the other side had a not so competent leader but at least you did not flagged with tags for supporting them and you could be sure that with them you will not be bullied for not thinking as them, 2016 was more a matter of feeling safe in the political spectrum, sadly it did not work as expected, the other side just ramped up the same strategies and expect a win based on current events and putting fear in people that dont want to be a lefty

Is sad that the DNC are using banana republic electoral tactics to get in the white house
 

Iwasamwillbe

Imperator Caesar Augustus
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You should look at responses to YouTube comments, or just travel down a bit. The first few are really positive, but the underbelly is full of liar comments and disgrace to America.
Trawling YouTube comment sections to discern the views of the American populace at large is some waterhead shit either way.

My point was simply that Trump clearly has more affection for autocrats than democratically elected leaders, and his various statements prove it.
Such as what?

I don't know why people get so defensive when I bring this stuff up.
"You disagreeing with me just means that you're defensive, and further proves me right!"

I'd consider this Kafkaesque if this wasn't so childish and stupid.
 

Stuck in Corners

Beer battered fillets on the house
True & Honest Fan
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Every Obama video ever always has a super positive likes to dislikes ratio as well as majority of comments very positive about him.
News/Entertainment channels have a history of buying their likes and comments when consensus towards a video is not in their favor. It's just a deception tactic to make the video look more appealing than it really is.
 

CheezzyMach

Hulkamania Brother!
kiwifarms.net
Truth is that the Religious Right are dead and we are richer for having lost them, but if you want to understand the rise of the Woke Left then you must know about the fall of the Religious Right and the mindset of the Millennial leftists who rose up in opposition.

As much as I dislike the old Religious Right and the (((traditionalist))) Zoomers who LARP as some autistic Catholic recolor of them, I also don't like all the SJW's and euphoric atheists who bring them up as a spectral boogeyman. The Religious Right is only relevant nowadays as the historic origins of the current Woke Left and there's a reason why some things are not worth conserving and why the SJW's still harp on the fundies as if this was still 2004 and the fundies weren't just a powerless and irrelevant phantom enemy.

The 2008 Recession and the KGB compromising academia only added a tanker of high test fuel to an already burning trash fire
Personally I bring up the RR on occasion for 2 reasons:

1. To counter doomerposting by pointing out that Left/Right cultural dominance doesn't last forever. The MM/RR was born out of the New Left imploding in the 70s and Conservatives dominated American culture for the next two decades only to completely collapse themselves during Obama's term.

2. To shut up smug Right Wingers who conveniently forget when their side was playing moral guardian in both the 80s and 50s * In-fact modern day woke culture has a lot in common with McCarthyism right down to it's extrajudicial moral committees and blacklists for wrongthink * .
 
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