2020 U.S. Presidential Election - It's never too early to start!

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Who is the best choice for President of the United States in 2020?


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Chive Turkey

kiwifarms.net
Things aren't adding up with the Sanders story about him saying "women can't win". The nytimes had already reported on it back in 2018...and no such claim was reported.



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Shit ain't adding up. I guess Warren's decided to take the gloves off and just go full attack mode since she's dropping in the polls.
I immediately thought it was bullshit as I read it. It's such an obvious, unprovable smear attempt. It will convince the more exceptional useful idiots progressives, whilst simultaneously further embittering anyone on the Left who's critical of the establishment. The parallels with the treatment of Gabbard are obvious.
Unions. He wants to promote unions heavily and while the idea is charming, unions are practically a shitty way to enforce equality in the workplace. Sure they give you a voice but it's all on the union to actually fight for things and you better pray to the lord above you don't get a union that's lazy and in it for the monthly fees they take from you.
A better way to go about it is to actually fucking regulate things. I'm all for a small government but enforcing maternity leave and paid leave isn't going to massively overexpand the government and would do wonders to actually boost workforce morale and average happiness in the US.

Tell me, would you rather have unions or have the government mandate paid leave and maternity leave? I bet most average Americans would pick number two.
Will companies complain and downsize because of it? Of course, anything to save money but the short term downside is outweighed by the net positive in the general workforce. People might actually be more willing to work if they knew they at least get a vacation guaranteed.
Iirc he also wants to give workers a permanent 25% stake in companies, which presents a whole host of problems in its own right.

The fact is, one of the major factors that crippled American (and British) industry is the fact that unions had too much power, rather than too little. Couple that with a corporate elite that has absolutely no loyalty to its employees and you have the explanation for why the native British automotive industry is currently non-existant, and why the American one is still the weakest out of the major car producers despite decades of attempts to diversify. Euro and Asian companies were (and largely still are) far more competitive, in large part because employees and business-owners have been on the same page. The national governments and economies incentivised mutually-beneficial cooperation between the two groups, rather than outright antagonism.

Attempting to install British 70s labour relations in current year America would be a really stupid idea. It would just convince companies to jump ship entirely, while gentler policies like Trump's protectionism are far more effective.
 

Harvey Danger

getting tired of this whole internet thing
kiwifarms.net
Ironically though, Bernie and Trump do share a similar weakness and strength: Their voter bases only want them. This plays well in Trump's hand because his support inside of the Republican party is through the roof; he has almost unanimous support inside of his own party. For Bernie it's a weakness because he does not have a similar amount of support. Whether he wins or loses the nomination, he creates a massive rift in his wake.
I'll slightly contest this. In 2016, roughly 75% of former Bernie voters wound up voting for Hilary anyway. But 12% of them actually went for Trump, who was (correctly) seen as a big Fuck You to the party system. Less than 5% didn't vote at all.

Sanders voters 2016.png

That was in the year of Hilary visibly screwing over Bernie, Bernie caving to BLM, and his credibility-destroying endorsement of Clinton. And his betrayed supporters still voted for the architect of his destruction just because she had a (D) after her name.

Granted, they didn't go over to Clinton 100%; and that 12% Trump switchover arguably gave him the win in specific states. But 75% of Bernie's base were not loyal fanatics and toed the party line in the end.

Will this repeat in 2020? Who knows. The outsider shitlord is now our Troll-In-Chief, and the TDS infection has metastasized across the entire political left. I don't know how much cross-party appeal is possible now. But I think we don't have any evidence that super-loyal Bernie fans will be throwing the election.

True, the rabid fans might cause chaos within the primary or convention. But my cynical side thinks the Democratic Party has designed those mechanisms as a clever containment zone for its crazy wing.

Once the convention is over and the general election is on, everyone is expected to get in line and vote against the next Hitler. And those previously seeming fanatics go along with the scheme, since they can switch the object of their hate to the Republican.
 

No Ma'ams Land

Read Sutter Cane
kiwifarms.net
I'll slightly contest this. In 2016, roughly 75% of former Bernie voters wound up voting for Hilary anyway. But 12% of them actually went for Trump, who was (correctly) seen as a big Fuck You to the party system. Less than 5% didn't vote at all.

View attachment 1098143

That was in the year of Hilary visibly screwing over Bernie, Bernie caving to BLM, and his credibility-destroying endorsement of Clinton. And his betrayed supporters still voted for the architect of his destruction just because she had a (D) after her name.

Granted, they didn't go over to Clinton 100%; and that 12% Trump switchover arguably gave him the win in specific states. But 75% of Bernie's base were not loyal fanatics and toed the party line in the end.

Will this repeat in 2020? Who knows. The outsider shitlord is now our Troll-In-Chief, and the TDS infection has metastasized across the entire political left. I don't know how much cross-party appeal is possible now. But I think we don't have any evidence that super-loyal Bernie fans will be throwing the election.

True, the rabid fans might cause chaos within the primary or convention. But my cynical side thinks the Democratic Party has designed those mechanisms as a clever containment zone for its crazy wing.

Once the convention is over and the general election is on, everyone is expected to get in line and vote against the next Hitler. And those previously seeming fanatics go along with the scheme, since they can switch the object of their hate to the Republican.
Anecdotal AF, but the majority of bernie supporting people online, as well as the associated mouthpieces (Kyle Kulinski bloc, Krystal Ball's news stuff and Jimmy Dore's club) have called establishment dems hacks of the highest order. I don't know if they can pull back that kind of rhetoric if Bernie gets screwed (again) and a Biden or Warren demand they kiss the ring.

Who knows how much those groups actually make of the entire Bernie wing of the party. But it could be surprising.
 

StarkRavingMad

kiwifarms.net
Anecdotal AF, but the majority of bernie supporting people online, as well as the associated mouthpieces (Kyle Kulinski bloc, Krystal Ball's news stuff and Jimmy Dore's club) have called establishment dems hacks of the highest order. I don't know if they can pull back that kind of rhetoric if Bernie gets screwed (again) and a Biden or Warren demand they kiss the ring.

Who knows how much those groups actually make of the entire Bernie wing of the party. But it could be surprising.
I think it depends on what Bernie does himself, if he doesn't win the nomination.

In 2016, he bent over like a bitch and endorsed Hillary. Will he do the same this year? Most likely. Contrary to his fanatics, Bernie is an establishment shithead, too. How can anyone call someone "anti-establishment" when they've held office for decades? It's unreal.
 

No Ma'ams Land

Read Sutter Cane
kiwifarms.net
I think it depends on what Bernie does himself, if he doesn't win the nomination.

In 2016, he bent over like a bitch and endorsed Hillary. Will he do the same this year? Most likely. Contrary to his fanatics, Bernie is an establishment shithead, too. How can anyone call someone "anti-establishment" when they've held office for decades? It's unreal.
It's kinda funny, he got screwed both ways. Before the primary was done, he was asked if he would encourage his base to support Hillary. His response IIRC was "if I make an endorsement, don't listen to me. Decide for yourselves."

Then the convention happened. We remember how that went.

Inevitably, both sides of the split shat on him: The hillarymen for not *fully* endorsing her (I.E. serving up his supporters on a silver platter), and his own supporters for capitulating to the Clinton dynasty.
 

MaoBigDong

Pamela Swain Gave Me Ass Cancer
kiwifarms.net
Bernie would never win as an independent, I can tell you that much. He would barely win if he did get the nomination, his rabid fanbase is much smaller than Trump’s, and I would argue that most dems who toe the line are centrist to center right if anything. No way in hell would they vote for “I’m going to take yer money” Bernie Sanders.

If he decided to go the independent route it would be a Ron Paul move x10 specifically because his supporters are so insanely anti-anyone else and make up a majority of young democratic voters. Until another viable party comes around that’s why he’s sticking with dems and brown nosing shills like Hilary. He’s the very definition of a career politician doing whatever he can to stay in the race.

I actually know people who wrote in Bernie during the 2016 election instead of making themselves useful and finding a new candidate in Trump or Hilary. Whether I disagree with mainstream politicians or not, you can’t win a race that you’ve already lost. If you want to change this two party shit at least work with them until we can get to the point of ranked choice voting, ffs.
 

Harvey Danger

getting tired of this whole internet thing
kiwifarms.net
Inevitably, both sides of the split shat on him: The hillarymen for not *fully* endorsing her (I.E. serving up his supporters on a silver platter), and his own supporters for capitulating to the Clinton dynasty.
But in the end, as I mentioned above, 75% of his supporters voted for Clinton anyway.

I believe Jimmy Dore if he says he won't vote for an establishment Dem. But I don't believe his followers actually have the same level of conviction that Dore has; they won't resist the temptation to "hold your nose and vote in THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF YOUR LIFETIME". He doesn't have a large enough following of similarly stubborn people to make a difference.

Political commentators on both sides are entertainers now. Partisans may watch the angry principled blowhard, but they're still normal voters, and they'll vote partisan for all the practical excuses we usually hear. Especially when that vote "matters" because it's against Cheeto Hitler in a tight state.
 

StarkRavingMad

kiwifarms.net
Bernie would never win as an independent, I can tell you that much. He would barely win if he did get the nomination, his rabid fanbase is much smaller than Trump’s, and I would argue that most dems who toe the line are centrist to center right if anything. No way in hell would they vote for “I’m going to take yer money” Bernie Sanders.

If he decided to go the independent route it would be a Ron Paul move x10 specifically because his supporters are so insanely anti-anyone else and make up a majority of young democratic voters. Until another viable party comes around that’s why he’s sticking with dems and brown nosing shills like Hilary. He’s the very definition of a career politician doing whatever he can to stay in the race.

I actually know people who wrote in Bernie during the 2016 election instead of making themselves useful and finding a new candidate in Trump or Hilary. Whether I disagree with mainstream politicians or not, you can’t win a race that you’ve already lost. If you want to change this two party shit at least work with them until we can get to the point of ranked choice voting, ffs.
Bernie's biggest obstacle if he were to win the nomination is this:

Since Trump became POTUS, the economy has shown noticable improvement. Bernie's economic proposal essentially says "Let's stop what's helping the economy and job growth." Sure, he caters to the "free shit" crowd as if he's Santa Claus, but the majority of voting Americans actually work for a living.

Bernie's economic proposals are going to be a really hard sell to the people who have benefitted from Trump's Presidency so far. All Trump needs to do is have him say (again) that he plans to increase taxes for the middle class in a debate, and it's over. Democrats underestimate how much people care about a prosperous economy ... It's why the majority of Americans didn't give a shit about Bill Clinton fucking an intern, after all.

Also, I cannot fathom that enough Trump voters in 2016 are all of the sudden going to eat up what the Democrats are trying to force on everyone.
 

Book Thievery

Literature Liberator
kiwifarms.net
I suppose that’s why I like the farms more than most websites to discuss or research politics. While I absolutely think that this website has a hard right leaning base there’s no reason for us to hurl insults unless it’s warranted by sheer re.tarded behavior e.g. Ashy sperging over Bernie. As a hard leftist it’s difficult to find places on the internet where people are willing to have actual discussion instead of spouting one-line praxis tweets at one another. Yeah it might be autisti.c to say it but damn I love this place.
I think the reason the Farms seems right-leaning on a cursory glance is because of how bat-shit insane the left has gotten over the years. I've seen plenty of users openly identifying as left-wing or liberal, yet still take part in bashing the current state of the left. It might also be because it goes against the grain of hyper political correctness that has infested all forms of media as of late. There exist threads on here mocking Nazis and other right-wing 'tards, but they don't see as much activity as the ones mocking left-wing 'tards. Why? Because what are we supposed to say? "Wow, Nazis sure are bad people." Wow! What a revolutionary thought! No one's ever made that observation before!

I will agree that this place has been far more mature and less circle-jerky than most other places to discuss politics, though. You're right on the money there.
 

MrJokerRager

I like me some nice big boobs
kiwifarms.net




Despite projecting confidence at the prospect of facing the senator, the president has asked multiple advisers how Sanders would perform in battleground states like Pennsylvania.

In public, President Donald Trump has fixated on mocking Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) as “crazy” and has focused on assuring supporters of how badly he’d crush the left-wing senator in a general election and protect them from Sanders’ creeping socialism.

In private, Trump has often expressed different worries about the 2020 candidate.

In the past two months, the president has repeatedly asked advisers, in and out of the White House, about how Sanders polls, or would likely perform, in critical battleground states, specifically Pennsylvania, according to two people who’ve independently heard him ask about it. At times, Trump has asked about Sanders’ prospects even in the absence of a current public or internal poll on the matter.

It’s hardly the first time Trump has talked to his friends and top lieutenants about Sanders’ potential formidability heading into an election year. As The Daily Beast reported last year, Trump had on multiple occasions told longtime associates and Republican donors that running against “socialism” in 2020 may not be “so easy” due to its populist appeal. At a private event with donors late last year, the president said, according to a source in the room, that “you can have someone who loves Trump, but many people love free stuff, too,” adding that if Sanders or other “socialist” candidates promise U.S. voters—particularly young voters—that they will cancel their debt, “that’s a tough one [to run against].”

But at Tuesday night’s rally in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the president stuck to the crowd-pleasers when it came to Sanders. “Bernie is surging, Bernie is surging,” Trump said, eliciting lusty boos from the audience. In several recent surveys, including a Des Moines Register poll, one of the few released out of the first caucus state in the lead-up to the Feb. 3 event, Sanders came out on top. In New Hampshire, he’s been a leading neighboring state contender for weeks.

Trump also couldn’t resist referencing Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-MA) claim this week that Sanders told her a woman couldn’t defeat Trump in 2020.

“I don’t believe that Bernie said that,” said Trump.

The Sanders campaign has long had their candidate polling ahead of Trump. According to data from an internal April 2019 poll obtained by The Daily Beast, the last time the campaign said they tested in Pennsylvania, the senator was winning in the state by 8 points at 51 percent to Trump’s 43 percent.

That lead has dwindled over time, and now according to Real Clear Politics polling average, is just under 4 percent, half of the lead former Vice President Joe Biden 8-point lead over the president, according to the same average.

Still, those numbers haven’t diminished Trump’s concerns about the senator.

Trump’s team has repeatedly declined to share their internal polling data with reporters and the public. Indeed, the president instructed his aides last year to tell reporters that his campaign’s internal numbers didn’t show him polling behind Biden in critical states—even though that same internal polling had him trailing Biden, then the clear national Democratic frontrunner.

Still, taken together, Sanders’ top aides and outside surrogates still believe the durability of his figures, and his recent traction in the Democratic primary, can help poke holes in Trump’s electability argument, portraying him as dishonest, especially to workers’ best interests.

Trump’s senior staff is, of course, reliably projecting calm at the thought of running against Team Bernie.

“We have no preference among the Democrat candidates because President Trump would beat any of them handily,” said Tim Murtaugh, communications director for Trump’s re-election campaign. “Over the last year, the campaign has engaged various Democrats when the opportunities have presented themselves. In Sanders’ case, his surge in the polls coincided with his emergence as the chief apologist for the Iranian regime. We needed to point out that he would be dangerous as president since he made clear he would appease terrorists and terror-sponsoring nations.”

Still, no one in Sanders-world interviewed by The Daily Beast said they were surprised that Trump has been privately expressing concerns about the appeal of Sanders and the senator’s brand of Democratic socialism, particularly in several states he won.

“I’ve always thought he would be obsessed with the senator,” Nina Turner, a senior Sanders adviser and his campaign’s national co-chair, told The Daily Beast about Trump. “He knows that he is the true progressive and the right person to go up against his faux populism.”

Sanders’ communications director Mike Casca put it another way: “They should be very worried.”

Others in Sanders’ circle point to his strength with working class voters, in part, who first voted for him in 2016 and swung to Trump in the general election. Multiple sources said they have worked to expand that base of support in the 2020 cycle.

“Bernie’s appeal,” Jim Zogby, a national surrogate for Sanders, said, “is to multi-ethnic and white working-class voters across the board. That is the crowd that the [Democratic] Party handed to Trump on a platter and Bernie is in effect saying, ‘Thank you, I’ll take that.’”

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MaoBigDong

Pamela Swain Gave Me Ass Cancer
kiwifarms.net
Anybody else watching the post-debate shitstorm on twitter? The dems are really coming for eachothers throats with some of the only unifying candidates, Tulsi and Yang, not even being on stage. Here I thought that the dems could be more civil with one another since they’re all seasoned politicians. Looks like we know who CNNs favorite is after tonight. Stupidpol wins again.

When as a populace are we going to stop focusing on whether a woman or a black person can be president or not and elect someone who has an idea on how to fix issues that voters actually give a shit about? You could be a fucking invader from mars but if you’re registered as a U.S citizen and meet the qualifications to run with some decent fucking policy maybe I’ll get my apathetic ass up and vote.
 

It's HK-47

Meatbag's Bounty of Bodies
Supervisor
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
When as a populace are we going to stop focusing on whether a woman or a black person can be president or not and elect someone who has an idea on how to fix issues that voters actually give a shit about? You could be a fucking invader from mars but if you’re registered as a U.S citizen and meet the qualifications to run with some decent fucking policy maybe I’ll get my apathetic ass up and vote.
We already did that. It was called the 2016 election.
 

Book Thievery

Literature Liberator
kiwifarms.net
Anybody else watching the post-debate shitstorm on twitter? The dems are really coming for eachothers throats with some of the only unifying candidates, Tulsi and Yang, not even being on stage. Here I thought that the dems could be more civil with one another since they’re all seasoned politicians. Looks like we know who CNNs favorite is after tonight. Stupidpol wins again.
The dems don't give a shit about Tulsi. They've branded her as a traitor of the highest degree for voting Present on the articles of impeachment.

Also, if you've got some links showing these idiots tearing each other apart, I could use a good laugh.

When as a populace are we going to stop focusing on whether a woman or a black person can be president or not and elect someone who has an idea on how to fix issues that voters actually give a shit about? You could be a fucking invader from mars but if you’re registered as a U.S citizen and meet the qualifications to run with some decent fucking policy maybe I’ll get my apathetic ass up and vote.
Unfortunately, the beliefs behind identity politics dictate that someone with a vagina and a higher concentration of melanin is automatically more qualified for leadership positions than the vagina-and-melanin deficient. Until the left collectively wakes up from their stupidity and realizes that race and gender don't matter that much, expect to see more of this shit as the election draws near.
 

greengrilledcheese

Free, White, and 21
kiwifarms.net
The dems don't give a shit about Tulsi. They've branded her as a traitor of the highest degree for voting Present on the articles of impeachment.
They were out to get her from the moment she announced she was running. Some examples from a year ago:
 
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