50 shades of gray fans. Twihards of the future? -

[Judge Holden]

Ok, im just gonna start off by saying I have never, nor do I ever plan to read 50 shades of grey or associate with it's fandom, and ever since I found a well read copy of it in my grandmother's possession I have spent several months working on a way of discussing it without being forced to drive my machete through my retinas, but I think that given it's history as a shameless twilight rip off and it's highly questionable (as in actual rape condoning) content, the apparant absence of psychotic "twihard" esque fans deserves some analysis, especially since the movie of the books is on the horizon.

So in your opinion, do you think we will be seeing the widespread emergence of pretend bdsm psycho fangirls in the next few years? or am I just overly paranoid based on the hideous examples of fancraziness we saw with twilight.

And for those completely unaware of the series, here is Gilbert Gottfried introducing it

[youtube]5K1RcKJVbHA[/youtube]

 

[Uzumaki]

So in your opinion, do you think we will be seeing the widespread emergence of pretend bdsm psycho fangirls in the next few years? or am I just overly paranoid based on the hideous examples of fancraziness we saw with twilight.

It's just erotic fiction with a bondage theme. It's the BDSM equivalent of a harlequin romance novel. It's not going to be the next Twilight anymore than a porno is going to be the next Baywatch. 50 Shades of Grey is going to disappear from the collective consciousness so fast you'll have forgotten it was even a thing by this time next year.

It's just not the same thing as Twilight, even if it might have a certain overlap in audience. People only know about it because it's an erotic novel that GASP people they know have read.

Edit: Also bondage roleplay condones rape in the same way that roleplaying as other people condones adultery and calling your lover "daddy' condones incest.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

Gilbert Gottfried should specialize in making audiobooks of erotic novels. It must be his calling in life.

I don't think we'll get Twilight levels of fandom. Like you said, the fans are older, so they actually have to do things with their lives.

 

[Saney]

So in your opinion, do you think we will be seeing the widespread emergence of pretend bdsm psycho fangirls in the next few years? or am I just overly paranoid based on the hideous examples of fancraziness we saw with twilight.

It's just erotic fiction with a bondage theme. It's the BDSM equivalent of a harlequin romance novel. It's not going to be the next Twilight anymore than a porno is going to be the next Baywatch. 50 Shades of Grey is going to disappear from the collective consciousness so fast you'll have forgotten it was even a thing by this time next year.

It's just not the same thing as Twilight, even if it might have a certain overlap in audience. People only know about it because it's an erotic novel that GASP people they know have read.

Well, the thing is, it started out as a Twilight fanfic which the author slightly rewrote so she could publish. It might not be Twilight, but it's pretty damn close. Every character is an asshole, zero research has been done and hell, EL James even manages to copy SMeyer's blatant racism and somehow make it more blatant. Also the BDSM barely qualifies as BDSM.

 

[Uzumaki]

So in your opinion, do you think we will be seeing the widespread emergence of pretend bdsm psycho fangirls in the next few years? or am I just overly paranoid based on the hideous examples of fancraziness we saw with twilight.

It's just erotic fiction with a bondage theme. It's the BDSM equivalent of a harlequin romance novel. It's not going to be the next Twilight anymore than a porno is going to be the next Baywatch. 50 Shades of Grey is going to disappear from the collective consciousness so fast you'll have forgotten it was even a thing by this time next year.

It's just not the same thing as Twilight, even if it might have a certain overlap in audience. People only know about it because it's an erotic novel that GASP people they know have read.

Well, the thing is, it started out as a Twilight fanfic which the author slightly rewrote so she could publish. It might not be Twilight, but it's pretty damn close. Every character is an asshole, zero research has been done and hell, EL James even manages to copy SMeyer's blatant racism and somehow make it more blatant. Also the BDSM barely qualifies as BDSM.

I haven't read it, but everyone I've talked to who is familiar with it says it's just a boring bondage fantasy for boring people that is popular more for it's blandness than anything else.

Anyway it doesn't matter if it's good (how could it be?), that couldn't be further from the point. All I'm saying is that, given that it is basically a textual porno, I do not see it getting the kind of mainstream fandom that Twilight did. People like to take normal things and make them creepy with fandom, not fan out over already creepy stuff. If the characters are already tying up and raping one another what's left for the fan fics?

 

[Something Vague]

Well, many of them were once Twihards, but not all Twihards have become 50 Shades fans, particularly the religious ones who believe BDSM is of the devil and don't like the premarital sex. My ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend (the girl that he cheated on me for because I was apparently too psychotic and not putting out enough and he was too afraid to break up with me in fear of me pulling a Johnny, which, I obviously didn't since I wouldn't be here right now, but when I found out that he was cheating on me, but I did throw the phone really hard against the wall and cracked my phone's protective case) is one who got into Twilight, but then she heard of it being based off of Twilight so she got into it immediately.

I guess considering how douchey my ex was (insisting that I get my autism cured when the cure arrives saying I'll be better off that way is one that really sticks out in my mind) then it does not surprise me that she gravitated toward him.

 

[spaps]

Well, many of them were once Twihards, but not all Twihards have become 50 Shades fans, particularly the religious ones who believe BDSM is of the devil and don't like the premarital sex. My ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend (the girl that he cheated on me for because I was apparently too psychotic and not putting out enough and he was too afraid to break up with me in fear of me pulling a Johnny, which, I obviously didn't since I wouldn't be here right now, but when I found out that he was cheating on me, but I did throw the phone really hard against the wall and cracked my phone's protective case) is one who got into Twilight, but then she heard of it being based off of Twilight so she got into it immediately.

I guess considering how douchey my ex was (insisting that I get my autism cured when the cure arrives saying I'll be better off that way is one that really sticks out in my mind) then it does not surprise me that she gravitated toward him.

Wow... your ex sounds like a total dick.

 

[Judge Holden]

Edit: Also bondage roleplay condones rape in the same way that roleplaying as other people condones adultery and calling your lover "daddy' condones incest.

I am well aware of this, but from what I understand the crap they do in the book is not bondage roleplay of BDSM, it just claims to be.

 

[Uzumaki]

Edit: Also bondage roleplay condones rape in the same way that roleplaying as other people condones adultery and calling your lover "daddy' condones incest.

I am well aware of this, but from what I understand the crap they do in the book is not bondage roleplay of BDSM, it just claims to be.

How can there even be a difference if it's a book? It's fictional. 50 Shades of Grey never happened, nobody got raped.

 

[Judge Holden]

Edit: Also bondage roleplay condones rape in the same way that roleplaying as other people condones adultery and calling your lover "daddy' condones incest.

I am well aware of this, but from what I understand the crap they do in the book is not bondage roleplay of BDSM, it just claims to be.

How can there even be a difference if it's a book? It's fictional. 50 Shades of Grey never happened, nobody got raped.

I said that from what I understand it condones rape, not that people actually got raped by it.

Fictional books condoning bad shit have long been a target for snark, hell just mosey over to the twilight thread to see it in practice.

 

[Uzumaki]

I said that from what I understand it condones rape, not that people actually got raped by it.

Fictional books condoning bad shit have long been a target for snark, hell just mosey over to the twilight thread to see it in practice.

But now you're back to it's "condoning" it. Presenting something as a sexual fantasy =/= condoning it in real life. I think I get your disconnect now: you think I was saying that within the context of the book the BDSM was roleplay. No, I'm saying that a fictional account of BDSM activity is equivalent to roleplay. Trying to argue that a book like this condones rape is really disingenuous. You should be able to find enough things to mock about it without appealing to some sense of moral panic.

 

[Henry Bemis]

There's a distinct lack of passion in Fifty Shades that'll keep it from going down in literary history as much as Twilight (regrettably) has. Whereas Twilight is an interesting read if you approach it as the repressed fantasies of a Mormon housewife...well, did the world really need another "rich man with dark secret meets virginal girl" romance novel? Our grocery store bookshelves got that in abundance, thank you very much.

I won't say SMeyer has my blessing to sue E L James because that implies SMeyer has something worth protecting (besides her piles of money), but if she did, I wouldn't complain.

 

[Something Vague]

Well, many of them were once Twihards, but not all Twihards have become 50 Shades fans, particularly the religious ones who believe BDSM is of the devil and don't like the premarital sex. My ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend (the girl that he cheated on me for because I was apparently too psychotic and not putting out enough and he was too afraid to break up with me in fear of me pulling a Johnny, which, I obviously didn't since I wouldn't be here right now, but when I found out that he was cheating on me, but I did throw the phone really hard against the wall and cracked my phone's protective case) is one who got into Twilight, but then she heard of it being based off of Twilight so she got into it immediately.

I guess considering how douchey my ex was (insisting that I get my autism cured when the cure arrives saying I'll be better off that way is one that really sticks out in my mind) then it does not surprise me that she gravitated toward him.

Wow... your ex sounds like a total dick.

Yeah, he was a total dick, looking back, I think the only real reason why I stayed with him that long was not because I was in love with him, but rather I was in love with the concept of falling in love with someone through LARPing. I was a plague doctor and he was a dwarven warrior and it sounded like the best love story ever and I was also quite desperate at the time.

I mean, the thing me and Dun have going on is also a geeky love story as to how we met, but our relationship is still able to stand on its own, whereas, obviously the one with me ex did not and even through my efforts of desperately trying to make it work, I knew that it was a lost cause, especially when he broke his promise to go to this weeklong LARP event with me even though we planned on going and instead took his friends and now-girlfriend instead who asked like a week in advance while I asked, like, a month in advance, that and the whole affair was my final straw.

But some of the stuff Christian Grey said like "You don't want me" and stuff of that nature was exactly what he said and that is such a red flag. Seriously, if a guy says that, HE REALLY DOESN'T WANT YOU! GET OUT OF THERE!

 

[Judge Holden]

I said that from what I understand it condones rape, not that people actually got raped by it.

Fictional books condoning bad shit have long been a target for snark, hell just mosey over to the twilight thread to see it in practice.

But now you're back to it's "condoning" it. Presenting something as a sexual fantasy =/= condoning it in real life. I think I get your disconnect now: you think I was saying that within the context of the book the BDSM was roleplay. No, I'm saying that a fictional account of BDSM activity is equivalent to roleplay. Trying to argue that a book like this condones rape is really disingenuous. You should be able to find enough things to mock about it without appealing to some sense of moral panic.

Actually I am refering to what others have told me on the fact the bella clone protagonist is repeatedly forced into sex despite saying no which is (as far as I am aware) something definitely frowned upon by actual BDSM folk, then romanticised as being proof of how much the guy loves her. I would consider that something as worthy of snark as Breaking Dawn condoning grooming children from birth for sex.

Why exactly do you think im trying to create a moral panic? I have said far nastier things about twilight and it's condoning of sociopathic bitchiness and you were not calling me out on starting a "moral panic" over it, so I think i can get away with lightly touching on what seems to be a rather common criticism of this book I freely admitted to have not read without someone getting sniffy about my repeated hearsay.

 

[Saney]

Actually I am refering to what others have told me on the fact the bella clone protagonist is repeatedly forced into sex despite saying no which is (as far as I am aware) something definitely frowned upon by actual BDSM folk, then romanticised as being proof of how much the guy loves her. I would consider that something as worthy of snark as Breaking Dawn condoning grooming children from birth for sex.

Accurate. Here's the chapter where that first happens (sporked heavily for your sanity). It's really disturbing actually.
http://das-sporking.livejournal.com/295831.html

 

[Uzumaki]

Why exactly do you think im trying to create a moral panic? I have said far nastier things about twilight and it's condoning of sociopathic bitchiness and you were not calling me out on starting a "moral panic" over it, so I think i can get away with lightly touching on what seems to be a rather common criticism of this book I freely admitted to have not read without someone getting sniffy about my repeated hearsay.

Dude, don't go all internet on me here and accuse me of taking the argument more seriously than you. If anyone's getting "sniffy" it's you being upset that your sweeping generalizations met with some resistance. I'm just making a point, you're the one making it personal.

Just because a criticism of something is common doesn't mean it's correct or even well thought out. See: the shit dumb people blame on Obama. If you want to keep saying that 50 Shades of Grey condones rape, fine, go nuts. I honestly don't care enough past this point to try and stop you. But claiming that a book that is clearly supposed to be a sexual fantasy for the person on the receiving end of the rape "condones rape" is disingenuous.

 

[Judge Holden]

^ Oh lawdy. So calling you "sniffy" has made this thing serious has it? I made an offhand comment on the book based on what others have said (including on this thread) which was immediately preceded by a clear admission I had never read the book. This was neither a sweeping statement nor an attempt to speak from some position of moral authority. It was at worst the repetition of long tired criticisms against the book. You seemed to take it as some sign I was trying to sperg out about the EEEEEEVIIILLL book and its dirty dirty sex fantasies.

As for me being "upset about encountering resistance" I suggest you take a little look back at how this silly little arguement got started. I have at worst been mildly confused why you seem to be fixiated with defending the book's honour, and how you somehow managed to drag Obama into this.

But if you wish to enlighten me on the book's true contents by all means do. As I have said repeatedly now, I have never read it and am relying entirely on hearsay and the opinions of others.

 

[Dunsparce]

Enough with the arguing.

Let's get the thread back on topic. If this continues I'll lock this thread for a few days to get everyone to cool down.

 

[Judge Holden]

Fair enough, though I am still extremely confused as to how Obama fits into all this.

Back on topic (if there is one, I kinda made this thread a bit too vague) does anyone know the actual demographic who most eats up this book>

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

does anyone know the actual demographic who most eats up this book

I'm assuming middle-aged women because they call it mommy porn, but I have no idea.