Abortion - An age old issue

Exactly. I'm a guy. Worst I'll get hit with is child support. Which, from what I've seen, is pretty fucking simple to get away without paying. Sooooo, I have no qualms recusing myself from this debate. I certainly have an opinion as to the morality of it all. But I also have an opinion on what my opinion should be worth. So females, please feel free to work this one out amongst yourselves, and when done, just let me (or somebody relevant) know what it is.

Some have pointed out to me that they believe my position is a cop out. I also have an opinion about that.
As a guy, you will die sooner because society believes you are more disposable than a woman. Men are expected to work themselves to death. So men should be able to decide all the rules of society since they have to die for it.

Is this a reasonable argument to you?
 
  • Dumb
  • Informative
Reactions: cactus and Apoth42

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
As a guy, you will die sooner because society believes you are more disposable than a woman.
Not really. Men just biologically die sooner. Or do you have some actual data to support your remarkable contention that if you just sit on your ass all day and do nothing you live longer?
 
Not really. Men just biologically die sooner. Or do you have some actual data to support your remarkable contention that if you just sit on your ass all day and do nothing you live longer?
Yeah, actually there is data, although I don't have a handy link, so from your perspective I suppose you could say I have no data. But there have been studies done looking at people living in sex-neutral environments, like monasteries and nunneries, and poorer countries where the women need to provide for the family just as much as the men, show they have a similar life expectancy. It's only when you get into cultures where the man's role is to be the provider that you see the skewing of the life expectancy.

Although just that data existing doesn't prove the assertion, it does support it. But my larger point is that it's not society's responsibility to even out "unfair" biology. If we're supposed to have equal rights, then biology should have nothing to do with it. Yes, pregnancy is much harder on women than men. This is a biological fact. But legally we supposedly have the same rights, so what does that biological fact matter?
 
It doesn't. Legal rights don't entitle you to overrule biology.
Well... it's literally physically impossible to overrule biology. I'm a bit confused here at what you're saying, honestly. We don't take into account men's generally stronger upper bodies in our laws. We don't take the fact that men have a dangly bit between their legs that really hurts if you hit it affect our laws. The laws say "Just because you're stronger doesn't mean you get to be in charge". In that sense, they very much overrule biology. And I think it's a good thing.
 
Men and women should both have the same right to bodily autonomy, and they do per the laws of our society. A fetus is effectively part of your body.
So men have less reproductive rights than women, by law. Women or men can have sex or not, use protection or not, but once there's a fetus men have 0 control. The man wants it, the woman doesn't? No baby. The woman wants it, the man doesn't? Baby + child support for 18 years.

Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
 

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
It's not a conspiracy that women live longer after you take out death by childbirth. It's just a physical fact. There's not a single male in the top ten longest living humans and there's no way that is just some social bullshit, just like it isn't some social bullshit that the top ten, probably the top 100 or even top 1,000 weightlifters are men.
 

Dial M for Misgender

Cumdog Millionaire
kiwifarms.net
So men have less reproductive rights than women, by law. Women or men can have sex or not, use protection or not, but once there's a fetus men have 0 control. The man wants it, the woman doesn't? No baby. The woman wants it, the man doesn't? Baby + child support for 18 years.

Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
I would argue they both have equal rights to their own bodies.
 

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
In one scenario, the man is required to use his own body to work for 18 years to provide for this chunk of a woman's body. There's no scenario where the man unilaterally makes a decision that results in the woman working for 18 years.
If the mother ends up not the custodial parent and the kid needs it, she'll end up owing child support too.
 
The man made the decision to impregnate a woman.
The woman made the decision to get impregnated.

If the mother ends up not the custodial parent and the kid needs it, she'll end up owing child support too.
What scenario where the man doesn't want the child and the woman does is going to result in the man getting custody of the child? If the woman doesn't want the child, she can have an abortion instead of letting the man raise it and paying him child support.
 

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
What scenario where the man doesn't want the child and the woman does is going to result in the man getting custody of the child?
In the circumstance where the woman goes to prison and the man can either go to prison himself for abandonment or take custody. Or any other set of circumstances that people end up in that aren't standard.
 

Apoth42

Hehe xd
kiwifarms.net
Not really. Men just biologically die sooner. Or do you have some actual data to support your remarkable contention that if you just sit on your ass all day and do nothing you live longer?
Men are the ones drafted into armies and expected to do hard physical jobs so I don't really see what you're trying to argue.
 

RadicalCentrist

kiwifarms.net

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Men are the ones drafted into armies and expected to do hard physical jobs so I don't really see what you're trying to argue.
I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out an obvious fact you'd have to be blind not to see.
 

Dial M for Misgender

Cumdog Millionaire
kiwifarms.net
Yeah, we do. After the sex part where the baby has been conceived is where the mismatch in rights occurs. As I expressly laid out. So if you're just playing word games don't bother.
No word games, that's unironically my opinion. There's no mismatch, everyone is in control what happens to their own body. If, knowing this, you make the decision to have sex, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 

About Us

The Kiwi Farms is about eccentric individuals and communities on the Internet. We call them lolcows because they can be milked for amusement or laughs. Our community is bizarrely diverse and spectators are encouraged to join the discussion.

We do not place intrusive ads, host malware, sell data, or run crypto miners with your browser. If you experience these things, you have a virus. If your malware system says otherwise, it is faulty.

Supporting the Forum

How to Help

The Kiwi Farms is constantly attacked by insane people and very expensive to run. It would not be here without community support.

BTC: 1DgS5RfHw7xA82Yxa5BtgZL65ngwSk6bmm
ETH: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
BAT: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
LTC: LSZsFCLUreXAZ9oyc9JRUiRwbhkLCsFi4q
XMR: 438fUMciiahbYemDyww6afT1atgqK3tSTX25SEmYknpmenTR6wvXDMeco1ThX2E8gBQgm9eKd1KAtEQvKzNMFrmjJJpiino