Abortion - An age old issue

It doesn't. Legal rights don't entitle you to overrule biology.
Well... it's literally physically impossible to overrule biology. I'm a bit confused here at what you're saying, honestly. We don't take into account men's generally stronger upper bodies in our laws. We don't take the fact that men have a dangly bit between their legs that really hurts if you hit it affect our laws. The laws say "Just because you're stronger doesn't mean you get to be in charge". In that sense, they very much overrule biology. And I think it's a good thing.
 
Men and women should both have the same right to bodily autonomy, and they do per the laws of our society. A fetus is effectively part of your body.
So men have less reproductive rights than women, by law. Women or men can have sex or not, use protection or not, but once there's a fetus men have 0 control. The man wants it, the woman doesn't? No baby. The woman wants it, the man doesn't? Baby + child support for 18 years.

Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
 

AnOminous

Really?
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Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
It's not a conspiracy that women live longer after you take out death by childbirth. It's just a physical fact. There's not a single male in the top ten longest living humans and there's no way that is just some social bullshit, just like it isn't some social bullshit that the top ten, probably the top 100 or even top 1,000 weightlifters are men.
 

Dial M for Misgender

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So men have less reproductive rights than women, by law. Women or men can have sex or not, use protection or not, but once there's a fetus men have 0 control. The man wants it, the woman doesn't? No baby. The woman wants it, the man doesn't? Baby + child support for 18 years.

Child support and spousal support are just another example of my previous point, men's place in society is to work and provide for women and children and then die. Preferably leaving money to the aforementioned women and children.
I would argue they both have equal rights to their own bodies.
 

AnOminous

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In one scenario, the man is required to use his own body to work for 18 years to provide for this chunk of a woman's body. There's no scenario where the man unilaterally makes a decision that results in the woman working for 18 years.
If the mother ends up not the custodial parent and the kid needs it, she'll end up owing child support too.
 
The man made the decision to impregnate a woman.
The woman made the decision to get impregnated.

If the mother ends up not the custodial parent and the kid needs it, she'll end up owing child support too.
What scenario where the man doesn't want the child and the woman does is going to result in the man getting custody of the child? If the woman doesn't want the child, she can have an abortion instead of letting the man raise it and paying him child support.
 

AnOminous

Really?
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What scenario where the man doesn't want the child and the woman does is going to result in the man getting custody of the child?
In the circumstance where the woman goes to prison and the man can either go to prison himself for abandonment or take custody. Or any other set of circumstances that people end up in that aren't standard.
 

Slap47

Hehe xd
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Not really. Men just biologically die sooner. Or do you have some actual data to support your remarkable contention that if you just sit on your ass all day and do nothing you live longer?
Men are the ones drafted into armies and expected to do hard physical jobs so I don't really see what you're trying to argue.
 

RadicalCentrist

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AnOminous

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Men are the ones drafted into armies and expected to do hard physical jobs so I don't really see what you're trying to argue.
I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out an obvious fact you'd have to be blind not to see.
 

Dial M for Misgender

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Yeah, we do. After the sex part where the baby has been conceived is where the mismatch in rights occurs. As I expressly laid out. So if you're just playing word games don't bother.
No word games, that's unironically my opinion. There's no mismatch, everyone is in control what happens to their own body. If, knowing this, you make the decision to have sex, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
I don't see how you got that from what I said.
Well, like you said, both parties have to consent to sex, so they both know what they're getting into. Once they've both consented to sex, they have nobody to blame but themselves if a pregnancy occurs. This is the man's last chance to avoid a pregnancy, you claim both sexes have equal rights over it, so I was assuming you meant by that this should be the last chance for the woman to avoid the pregnancy.

Really my point is you pulled that "men can choose not to impregnate a woman" as if that countered "Women have the final say on the existence of the child, and whether or not the man owes her 18 years of work, while men have no such option".

So are we gonna dance around another circle, or will you stop playing weird semantic games with me. It's fine if you believe women's biological disadvantages in the arena of pregnancy entitle them to extra reproductive rights, just say that if that's what you think and stop pretending that's somehow "equality".