Addiction - drugs, booze, pills, whatever(I

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Mars Attacks!

ack/acks/ackself
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I'm an alcoholic, I think everyone here knows that already
Addiction treatment sucks. 12 step programs are actually one of the least effective treatments for alcoholism but everyone seems to think they are the only way. CBT and drugs are a lot more effective.
Look up "The Sinclair Method," it's been used very effectively in other countries.. I will say it did not completely work for me but it did curb my drinking a lot, so I find it's worth doing.
Came to this thread to say 12 Step programs are bullshit.
It would be one thing if they could just admit that they're a religious approach to addiction. For some people (very few who enter the program, like 5%?), they work. But you can't claim it's scientific or even that it's secular when every damn meeting begins and ends with a prayer. Besides that, the philosophy of 12 step is basically telling people that they're incurably sick and that their only hope is to dedicate their lives to a TOTALLY NOT A CULT organization. If you've been clean and sober for X years and you still go to meetings multiple times a week, you're just letting your addiction control your life in a different way. Know what gave me peace with my history of drug use? Moving the fuck on.
I've never heard of the Sinclair method, gonna go look it up.
 

ChuckSlaughter

You mean I got about 200 bitcoins
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Besides that, the philosophy of 12 step is basically telling people that they're incurably sick and that their only hope is to dedicate their lives to a TOTALLY NOT A CULT organization.
I can't tell you how much AA stuff I hear passed around as scientific fact. I wonder how many people learned they were incurably sick and would struggle their whole lives and then just killed themselves.
 

melty

True & Honest Fan
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I called a local chemical dependency center because I was having withdrawal symptoms if I didn't drink for several hours. I wanted to see a doctor for tapering advice and to possibly renew my naltrexone prescription because I'm kind of going off the rails for it.
The receptionist I think thought I was trying to get benzos or whatever drug junkies want, even though I said I mostly just needed medical advice and said what medication I had run out of (I can't think of any reason anyone would want naltrexone, it's for addiction and lupus and it's super harmless) she was super snippy and said the program was only for group therapy and I wouldn't see a doctor.
This was a hospital. Wtf is even the point? If I wanted to go to group therapy I could go fucking anywhere. I called a fucking hospital because I want to stop shaking and puking. I don't know it just seems like bullshit.
I am seeing a doctor soon though.
 
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Philosophy Zombie

I'M BACK, BABY!
True & Honest Fan
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Totally agree with this. I would rather have a shorter life of indulgence than a long life of deprivation.
This is annoying because you create a dichotomy where no one exists. Nobody outside a high school DARE course said that you have to be totally abstinent. Just don't be an idiot

The other assumption this mindset makes is that you actually die. You could very well live 50 more years nursing that dope habit which has ceased to give you any pleasure but you have to do lines to feel normal, or as a quadriplegic after a drunk driving accident where bleeding hearts refuse to let you die no matter how much you want to because it's against God's plan.
 

melty

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm sure it seems glamorous but the reality is very different.
it fucks up everything in your life. I have constant health issues. my stomach hurts all the time. I shake when I wake up. sometimes I puke for no good reason. I used to puke every morning but luckily I don't do that anymore.
I worry constantly about getting fired. I worry about losing friends because i don't remember what i said to them yesterday. I worry about how much worse my health will be when I turn 30 because I'm probably not going to die in a bathtub, I'll die slowly with a bunch of disgusting and painful health issues.
There are some good things about it but overall it's shit.
 

ERROR_ENTRY

kiwifarms.net
If you look at the lives of most of those rock stars who died young after a life of indulgence, they were usually pretty miserable, and their music reflects that.
I think the worst was Layne Staley. He lived completely isolated in the last years of his life. The only reason people found out he died was that his accountant noticed he hadn't withdrawn any money for 2 weeks.
 

Marvin

Christorical Figure
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Totally agree with this. I would rather have a shorter life of indulgence than a long life of deprivation.
Yeah, I get this.

Like, I view it as a tradeoff between mental/spiritual indulgence and physical indulgence. Everything physically enjoyable erodes your physical health. So there's a spectrum between living to 110 as a monk, or living to 30 as a junkie. I get annoyed at people who pick one single spot on the spectrum and praise it as the perfect balance for everyone. There is no universally perfect balance. Everyone's going to have different tastes when it comes to this.

Someone getting smug purely because they exercise a bit more than I do can eat a dick. And in the same way, dogging on someone because they're a teetotaler can also eat a dick. (Although I don't encounter those types of people as often.)
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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Yeah, I get this.

Like, I view it as a tradeoff between mental/spiritual indulgence and physical indulgence. Everything physically enjoyable erodes your physical health.
There's fairly good evidence that moderate consumption of alcohol is actually good for you. I wouldn't be at all surprised if moderate consumption of recreational substances in general is actually good for you physically and mentally. I'm not necessarily saying avoid all excess, I don't, but there's probably a happy medium somewhere.

There are also some things, like heroin, crack, huffing gasoline, etc. that are just plain bad, but even with those, there are people who have done them without turning into total degenerates for life.
 

Coleman Francis

True & Honest Fan
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There are also some things, like heroin, crack, huffing gasoline, etc. that are just plain bad, but even with those, there are people who have done them without turning into total degenerates for life.

Lol, maybe a few, probably a pretty small number though. idk. Huffing gasoline seems to be a more suicidal venture than a "getting loaded" one.

AA though, I don't understand why anyone would talk shit about an organization that gets people together to socialize, get's them to do some self-reflection, and condone's sobriety. I don't have any strong feelings for them one way or the other, but calling them a cult is pretty fucking silly. I've been to NA/AA meetings before because they were court ordered.

Nothing about the group is cult-like. As a matter of fact, calling Alcoholics Anonymous a cult is actually pretty insulting to real cults of weak-willed people who are magnetically drawn to a cult of personality who drains their bank accounts and manipulates its member's lives.

AA meekly ask's people to throw change in a basket to buy coffee sometimes.... You people don't see the difference there?

They start and end meetings with prayers because at the end of the day, most people's higher power tends to be.... a higher power, like one of the major deities that people commonly worship in this country. They don't force anyone to join in the prayers, and you can get up and leave anytime you want, and to say those people are shallow, that's crazy, I've met some of the most talkative, introspective people in those groups. They never shut up about their introspections and their reflections. They are friendly and their rhetoric is harmless to anyone trying to try sobriety for a change.

How can hanging out with a bunch of sober people be a bad thing for the addict or the alcoholic? And I've spoken to probably more people who don't buy into the "dry drunk" idea than those who do. I am starting to think that people hate AA/NA just because they have a religious element and most of us are forced to attend the meetings rather than go on our own accord, at a time in our lives when we are likely at a very low point.
 

Male Idiot

Loli Hitler
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There's fairly good evidence that moderate consumption of alcohol is actually good for you. I wouldn't be at all surprised if moderate consumption of recreational substances in general is actually good for you physically and mentally. I'm not necessarily saying avoid all excess, I don't, but there's probably a happy medium somewhere.

There are also some things, like heroin, crack, huffing gasoline, etc. that are just plain bad, but even with those, there are people who have done them without turning into total degenerates for life.
I have been drinking and smoking responsibly since I was 13. I get wasted once a year, that's good enough! And even than I am always in control enough to reach the toilet if I need to.
 

Coleman Francis

True & Honest Fan
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Came to this thread to say 12 Step programs are bullshit.
If you've been clean and sober for X years and you still go to meetings multiple times a week, you're just letting your addiction control your life in a different way. Know what gave me peace with my history of drug use? Moving the fuck on.

It might be bullshit for you but plenty people seemed to have gotten satisfaction from it. Some people attend meetings in order to learn how to "move the fuck on". Lot of them never grew up past the point they started drinking/using and needed to spend time with people who have actual experience dealing with the day to day issues of addiction. Not a doctor, not a family member who means well and will do anything for you but has never lived that life, but an actual person who survived it and can maybe show you a few ways to deal with that part of it and convince you to stay clean another few days, maybe just a day if you're just starting out.


I'm an alcoholic, I think everyone here knows that already
Addiction treatment sucks. 12 step programs are actually one of the least effective treatments for alcoholism but everyone seems to think they are the only way. CBT and drugs are a lot more effective.

You seem to be implying that drugs that get you over the DT's and some therapy is all that lifestyle is about. You're an alcoholic, you know that there is more to it. What about when you start feeling better? What's to stop you from going to get on that dope again? Therapy is just fine, its a good step to take. Maybe there will be a real live recovering addict as a counselor who can help you out with your issues, though he will probably just tell you to go get in some AA/NA meetings and get a sponsor before you come back to see him lol.
 
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Marvin

Christorical Figure
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
They start and end meetings with prayers because at the end of the day, most people's higher power tends to be.... a higher power, like one of the major deities that people commonly worship in this country. They don't force anyone to join in the prayers, and you can get up and leave anytime you want, and to say those people are shallow, that's crazy, I've met some of the most talkative, introspective people in those groups. They never shut up about their introspections and their reflections. They are friendly and their rhetoric is harmless to anyone trying to try sobriety for a change.
You're not forced to pray at church either, but at the end of the day, church is still a religious organization. The claim that AA is not religious is false.
I am starting to think that people hate AA/NA just because they have a religious element and most of us are forced to attend the meetings rather than go on our own accord, at a time in our lives when we are likely at a very low point.
Its methods are ineffective yet people keep recommending it over much more effective treatments. I say this as an unbiased outsider who's never had to attend AA. I've just looked into the subject online and I've found the clash between what AA proponents say and the reality of the situation shocking.
It might be bullshit for you but plenty people seemed to have gotten satisfaction from it. Some people attend meetings in order to learn how to "move the fuck on".
AA has the same problem that all cults have, really, in that most people aren't persuaded by its teachings, but the people who have been persuaded turn into devout recruiters. It gives people an inflated view of AA and its efficacy.
Maybe there will be a real live recovering addict as a counselor who can help you out with your issues, though he will probably just tell you to go get in some AA/NA meetings and get a sponsor before you come back to see him lol.
Unfortunately that's all too common.

A small portion of people are actually helped by AA. But most people aren't, and this is specifically because of deficiencies in AA's approach. AA is a lot like abstinence-only sexual education. If anyone is looking for help with their drinking, harm reduction programs like HAMS are much, much more effective.
 

Male Idiot

Loli Hitler
kiwifarms.net
Where I come from, a real man (or cool woman!) can drink without becoming addicted. It is a test of one's character to master the booze without letting it overcome him/herself. This signals that they have a strong constitution that can handle alcohol and a stronger will to not be addicted.

It does not always work, but saying "I don't drink" is a surefire way to die a virgin.
 
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