Agriculture, Veganism and the Ecosystem - The Green Apocalypse

RichardMongler

Causing much mayhem, dropping drama
kiwifarms.net
To section off a discussion from the Militant Vegans thread, let's discuss the effects of animal husbandry on the ecosystem.

I keep hearing "Cowspiracy", "Forks Over Knives", "From Farm to Fridge" and The China Study cited as authoritative sources all proposing veganism as panacea for all that ails us and the solution to environmental degradation/climate change. This has also been a recurring theme in left-wing journalism. To summarize the popular talking points in a bullet-pointed list:
GREENHOUSE GASES
  • Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation.
  • Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.
  • Methane is 25-100 times more destructive than CO2 on a 20 year time frame.
  • Methane has a global warming potential 86 times that of CO2 on a 20 year time frame.
  • Livestock is responsible for 65% of all human-related emissions of nitrous oxide – a greenhouse gas with 296 times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide, and which stays in the atmosphere for 150 years.
  • US Methane emissions from livestock and natural gas are nearly equal.
  • Converting to wind and solar power will take 20+ years and roughly 43 trillion dollars.
  • Even without fossil fuels, we will exceed our 565 gigatonnes CO2e limit by 2030, all from raising animals.
SPECIES EXTINCTION
  • Animal agriculture contributes to species extinction in many ways. In addition to the monumental habitat destruction caused by clearing forests and converting land to grow feed crops and for animal grazing, predators and “competition” species are frequently targeted and hunted because of a perceived threat to livestock profits. The widespread use of pesticides, herbicides and chemical fertilizers used in the production of feed crops often interferes with the reproductive systems of animals and poison waterways. The overexploitation of wild species through commercial fishing, bushmeat trade as well as animal agriculture’s impact on climate change, all contribute to global depletion of species and resources
WATER
  • Animal agriculture water consumption ranges from 34-76 trillion gallons annually.
  • Agriculture is responsible for 80-90% of US water consumption.
  • Growing feed crops for livestock consumes 56% of water in the US.
  • 2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of beef.
  • 477 gallons of water are required to produce 1lb. of eggs; almost 900 gallons of water are needed for 1lb. of cheese.
  • 1,000 gallons of water are required to produce 1 gallon of milk.
  • 5% of water consumed in the US is by private homes. 55% of water consumed in the US is for animal agriculture.
  • Animal Agriculture is responsible for 20%-33% of all fresh water consumption in the world today.
LAND
  • Livestock covers 45% of the earth’s total land.
  • Animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction, ocean dead zones, water pollution, and habitat destruction.
  • Livestock operations on land have created more than 500 nitrogen flooded deadzones around the world in our oceans.
  • Mass extinction of species has begun.
  • 2-5 acres of land are used per cow.
  • “Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns.” UN News Centre, 2006.
  • 1/3 of the planet is desertified, with livestock as the leading driver.
WASTE
  • Every minute, 7 million pounds of excrement are produced by animals raised for food.
  • A farm with 2,500 dairy cows produces the same amount of waste as a city of 411,000 people.
  • In the U.S. livestock produce 116,000 lbs of waste per second: Cattle, 63lbs of waste per day, x 90 million cattle. Pigs, 14lbs. of waste per day, x 67 million pigs. Sheep/Goats. 5lbs of waste per day, x 9 million sheep/goats. Poultry, .25-1lbs of waste per day, x 9 billion birds.
  • Animals produce Enough waste to cover SF, NYC, Tokyo.
OCEANS
  • We could see fishless oceans by 2048.
  • 90-100 million tons of fish are pulled from our oceans each year.
  • As many as 2.7 trillion animals are pulled from the ocean each year.
  • For every 1 pound of fish caught, up to 5 pounds of unintended marine species are caught and discarded as by-kill.
  • As many as 40% (63 billion pounds) of fish caught globally every year are discarded.
  • Scientists estimate as many as 650,000 whales, dolphins and seals are killed every year by fishing vessels.
  • Fish catch peaks at 85 million tons.
  • 40-50 million sharks killed in fishing lines and nets.
RAINFOREST
  • 1-2 acres of rainforest are cleared every second.
  • The leading causes of rainforest destruction are livestock and feedcrops.
  • Up to 137 plant, animal and insect species are lost every day due to rainforest destruction.
  • 150-200 species per day are lost per day.
  • 136 million rainforest acres cleared for animal agriculture.
  • 1,100 Land activists have been killed in Brazil in the past 20 years. 20 years ago the Amazon lost its strongest advocate.
WILDLIFE
  • Washington state killed the wedge pack of wolves.
  • More wild horses and burros in government holding facilities than are free on the range.
  • Ten thousand years ago, 99% of biomass (i.e. zoomass) was wild animals. Today, humans and the animals that we raise as food make up 98% of the zoomass.
HUMANITY
  • 80% of antibiotic sold in the US are for livestock.
  • World population in 1812: 1 billion; 1912: 1.5 billion; 2012: 7 billion.
  • 70 billion farmed animals are reared annually worldwide. More than 6 million animals are killed for food every hour.
  • 82% of starving children live in countries where food is fed to animals, and the animals are eaten by western countries.
Land required to feed 1 person for 1 year:
  • Vegan: 1/6th acre
  • Vegetarian: 3x as much as a vegan
  • Meat Eater: 18x as much as a vegan
  • 1.5 acres can produce 37,000 pounds of plant-based food.
  • 1.5 acres can produce 375 pounds of meat.
  • A person who follows a vegan diet produces the equivalent of 50% less carbon dioxide, uses 1/11th oil, 1/13th water, and 1/18th land compared to a meat-lover for their food.
  • Each day, a person who eats a vegan diet saves 1,100 gallons of water, 45 pounds of grain, 30 sq ft of forested land, 20 lbs CO2 equivalent, and one animal’s life.
HEALTH:
  • In the Adventist Health Study, only vegans as a group had ideal body weights and they had the lowest all cause mortality. If everyone were to eat a vegan diet, the amount of savings in health costs alone would be enough to balance the entire US budget. For those who want to go full bore, Dr. Michael Greger gave lengthy presentations on the latest annual findings in nutrition research: 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012.
There's a fascinating article from The Daily Kos (of all places) on the dangers of moral absolutism, which is perhaps the fundamental problem most people will have after watching "Cowspiracy".

In response to some of the controversial claims above, @ColtWalker1847 pointed out that water usage counted in these statistics reflects the amount to grow feed crops, the vast majority of which are grown with dryland farming practices. Furthermore, what is fed to livestock generally isn't meant for human consumption. Animals are generally fed field corn, soybeans, cottonseed, and barley and a mix of many different things to get a specific nutritional profile.

It'll be an interesting discussion, because civil discourse on this subject is exceedingly rare these days.
 

ICametoLurk

SCREW YOUR OPTICS, I'M GOING IN
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
During the Battle of Berlin the Nazis had yeast growing to feed their civilians, I read about it from a library book a long ass time ago but it was designed to feed a fuckton of children despite the Soviets having parts of the city. Basically feed them Vegemite and yeast can grow anywhere, surprised to not hear more about it and wonder why.
 
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ColtWalker1847

kiwifarms.net
That's a lot to digest but let me just pick one here to make a proper example of.
Livestock covers 45% of the earth’s total land.
Land use. It all comes down to land use.

Ok, so say you have some acreage but it has problems. It is too dry, too rocky, bad soil, etc. You couldn't meaningfully grow anything on it if you tried. But you are hungry and you gotta eat. In comes the idea of a pasture for ruminants. They can derive meaningful nutrition from the grasses that grow there. You can then eat the livestock. This makes unproductive land productive and there is loooooooots of unproductive land in the world. Hence the 45% figure. If you have ever been to the Dakotas, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, just about anywhere rural, really, any plot of land that isn't a field is rangeland for cattle.

How, exactly, is this a fucking issue? Non-livestock animals live like this every day but when we do it on purpose, now it's fucking terrible? When was the last time someone did a study on the water consumption of antelope? Should we start a cull to get those water numbers up? Can't have those "consumption" figures looking bad, can we?

It is all contrived nonsense and revolves around the central issue of land use with the goal being environmental stewardship gone off the goddamn rails. There are no objective truths here that you can point to. All of the demonstrable truths have already been put into use with current practice, law, and regulation. It is pretty much all subjective from here on out. If someone wants to believe that agricultural practice XYZ is "worse" than if the resources were left in their natural state, you can't really argue that. It is something that can't be measured. It's just how they feel. They will never, ever, own up to that though (they bought into the "science" and "truth" of their ideology). But that's the reality on the ground.
 
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Sable

DANGEROUSLY WAITING FOR MORE 2HUS
kiwifarms.net
It's something that'll make people squeamish, but pound-for-pound insects are pretty damn nutritious.

I don't think people would have as much of an issue with eating bugs so long as they don't look like bugs any more, but I might be being horribly optimistic.
 

RichardMongler

Causing much mayhem, dropping drama
kiwifarms.net
Some people just don't enjoy chewing on a pig's arsehole. Also, enjoy your breakfast!
That's supposed to be gross? Bitch, please. If you wanna post craftily edited propaganda videos narrated by former celebrities like "From Farm to Fridge" or "Earthlings", there are plenty of better places to do that than here.

If you want to counterargue some of the points brought up ITT, then please do. It'll be far more productive than posting videos that spare no gory details or employ 0 subtlety in proselytizing on the ethics of meat.
 

YourUnclesDad

kiwifarms.net
That's supposed to be gross? Bitch, please. If you wanna post craftily edited propaganda videos narrated by former celebrities like "From Farm to Fridge" or "Earthlings", there are plenty of better places to do that than here.

If you want to counterargue some of the points brought up ITT, then please do. It'll be far more productive than posting videos that spare no gory details or employ 0 subtlety in proselytizing on the ethics of meat.
I didn't say it was supposed to be gross. Those are your own thoughts and words.
 

AnOminous

each malted milk ball might be their last
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
That's supposed to be gross? Bitch, please. If you wanna post craftily edited propaganda videos narrated by former celebrities like "From Farm to Fridge" or "Earthlings", there are plenty of better places to do that than here.

It's like this edgetard is a city boy who never even saw a live chicken in his life.
 

Un Platano

big blatano xDDDD
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Land required to feed 1 person for 1 year:
  • Vegan: 1/6th acre
I really question where this figure is coming from. 1/6th of an acre is about 7200 square feet and 670 square meters (.067 hectares). That's about half the size of this:
Olympic-Stadium-960x570.jpg

Rice is per acre the most energy dense crop. According to this UN report, yield has considerable variation due to lots of factors but one hectare can be expected to produce 4000 kg of rice. You can get a lot more if you use genetically modified crops and pesticides and herbicides and all sorts of wonderful things, but people against meat are usually against those too so I'm not giving them that benefit. That means on 1/6th of an acre you could grow 268 kg of rice in a year, or 750 grams per day. That is quite a lot, but that's only rice, and you'd die of nutrient deficiencies well before the year was over.

According to this website, the average person in Myanmar, a rice-heavy country, eats 195 kg of rice per year. People in Laos eat less than that, but that's because they're communists being fed on a starvation diet. That means that to eat like the average person in Myanmar you'd need to devote 3/4 of your area to growing rice, and eat it 3 times a day for the rest of your life. You'd have 167 square meters left to grow all the other stuff you need because eating rice every day isn't enough, and that's why I can tell this figure is bad. 1/6th of an acre will only feed you for a year if you're content with eating the diet of someone from an oppressed second-world shithole.
 

ForgedBlades

Milled wedges.
kiwifarms.net
I'm not saying that this system will be sustainable forever, but we've been hearing these same talking points for what seems like decades, and none of the disastrous prophecies have bore fruit. Life continues to go on as normal, especially for those in the industrialized world.

It's like the climate change hysteria of the early and mid-2000s. When Al Gore shouted from the rooftops that the North Pole was going to melt and New York would be the new Atlantis by 2010, and then it didn't happen, it's easy to brush these types of " leftist" issues off as complete nonsense.

It is scary to think that because of this, if it does happen, it'll likely be a swift and disastrous collapse. Cry wolf too many times, and life as we know it could disappear.
 

Never Go Full Greer

Mocker of Paralegal Dwarves
kiwifarms.net
To section off a discussion from the Militant Vegans thread, let's discuss the effects of animal husbandry on the ecosystem.

I keep hearing "Cowspiracy", "Forks Over Knives", "From Farm to Fridge" and The China Study cited as authoritative sources all proposing veganism as panacea for all that ails us and the solution to environmental degradation/climate change. This has also been a recurring theme in left-wing journalism. To summarize the popular talking points in a bullet-pointed list:
GREENHOUSE GASE.

The irony being that a planet full of vegans doesn't deserve to be saved, so even assuming their hypothesis to be valid, acting in accordance with their preferences would be the worst possible course of action.
 

ColtWalker1847

kiwifarms.net
I'm not saying that this system will be sustainable forever, but we've been hearing these same talking points for what seems like decades, and none of the disastrous prophecies have bore fruit. Life continues to go on as normal, especially for those in the industrialized world.
We have been hearing the same arguments for centuries. Thomas Malthus was the first to popularize the theory that the population was going to outstrip the resources of the planet and we were all fucking doomed. But, what Malthus didn't/couldn't know, was that the Industrial Revolution was right around the corner and it changed everything.

The current crop of neo-Malthusians have no excuse. Most of their arguments revolve around how fucked industry and technology are and how it is going to outstrip the resources of the planet and we were all fucking doomed, when that has been the opposite of what has happened.

These people and their beliefs are the same broken record skipping forever. It is best not to pay them any mind.
 

Pikimon

Exceptionally Overachieving Mexican
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm not saying that this system will be sustainable forever, but we've been hearing these same talking points for what seems like decades, and none of the disastrous prophecies have bore fruit. Life continues to go on as normal, especially for those in the industrialized world.

Mostly because scientific advancements have saved us on the brink of disaster. Like here in the USA the citrus greening disease was poised to destroy the entire Florida citrus industry and even know Florida citrus is not allowed into Texas or California in order to not risk the disease from spreading. The reason why it hasn't (yet) destroyed all citrus in Florida is because they found the insect vector that spreads the greening disease and have shown some success in curtailing its spread.

Things are getting dire, and the fact that the effects are not immediately and dramatically seen is the biggest danger of the coming environmental issues we're going to be facing in the coming decades.
 

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