Culture Alabama governor signs nation's most restrictive anti-abortion bill into law - "Unenforceable" bill designed to directly challenge Roe V. Wade

ButterBar

kiwifarms.net
don't consider abortion early on in the first trimester to be murder, and even past that its fuzzy. If it can't live outside of the womb then its the woman's property, and part of her body.
You realize that depending on whether you are in say New York City or a west virginia coal town whether or not it can live outside the womb is going to change dramatically right? Thats entirely technologically dependent and arbitrary to draw the line there. How is it a part of her body exactly? Does she have 20 fingers until she crosses that week where viability occurs and then she has 10?
I mean its a good thing the law provides exceptions in case of rape or incest oh wait no lol, Dems tried to pass an amendment that did just that and it got shot down by our lovely conservative lawmakers.
Logically if you view a fetus as a human being deserving of the right to live you dont get to kill them based on who their dad is.

You'd instead force a woman to go through the pain of childbirth to satisfy your own moral misgivings about THEIR use of THEIR bodies, even when they didn't make the choice to have sex in the first place?
My moral misgivings of their choice to end a seperate and unique human being. I'd be more than happy to provide them with state and private charity and support.
 

Ashy the Angel

The Cultural Marxist under your bed
kiwifarms.net
As for the property argument, the idea that you can reduce a gestating fetus to the status of property as long as it lacks the ability to live outside the womb is interesting. Would you say that someone who could not survive outside of an iron lung was the property of the hospital that iron lung was in? What is the differentiation?
Easy. The Iron Lung didn't create the man, and is also an inatimate object. The iron lung is in no danger of death from the human within it. In the case of conception the woman has literally created another being within her body which can kill her. It should be the woman's choice what to do with it. The only role the government should have is ensuring that its done safely.

And from your premise of "it's a woman's choice to carry to term" - is it also a man's choice whether to support that child after it's born or not? Does he have the option of saying "No, I did not want this, I wanted you to abort because I cannot support this child, I will not support this child"? Does this sword cut both ways or does the choice of the second genetic contributor simply not come into play at any point?
Oh yeah, they can definitely choose to go on the lam and not pay child-support. In the case of him deciding whether she should abort it or not he doesn't have to give birth to it, so his say in the decision should be effectively null. And what of his responsibility in causing the pregnancy? Why didn't he wear a condom, or pull out? Why didn't he have a vasectomy?

And even then the man carries very little risk from a woman's pregnancy. She can die from childbirth. He might have to sign a check if things don't go his way in court. The positions aren't equal whatsoever. This is why I err on the side of the woman. Even as a genetic contributor his life is altered considerably less so by the prospect of pregnancy. The epidemic of single mothers in this country is proof-positive of that.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
You were doing great until the whole "reasonably accessible and feasible" bit. Thanks to organizations like Planned Parenthood and oh I dunno the fact that generally speaking we have one of the best medical systems on the planet safe abortions have been a thing since forever. America's abortion clinics aren't back allies in Brazil 40 years ago (But funnily enough this bill does force women to seek off-the-books, black market alternatives that are less safe).
Reasonably accessible and feasible is exactly what condoms, birth control, IUDs, cervical caps, diaphragms, jellies, foams, and abstinence all are. Tuboligations tend to require more hoops to jump through and emergency contraceptives seem to vary in availability, but many realistic and effective options exist outside of abortion.

Preventatives and the like are fantastic in the case of a planned sexual encounter, but what about rape? Most women won't know they're pregnant until 4-6 weeks. You'd instead force a woman to go through the pain of childbirth to satisfy your own moral misgivings about THEIR use of THEIR bodies, even when they didn't make the choice to have sex in the first place?
If you just had unprotected sex or got raped and you're not on the pill/nuvaring/implant or equipped with an IUD for some reason you immediately know you're at risk of being pregnant and you should be pursuing emergency contraceptives available at drugstores whether you have an ovum sitting there or not. The hospital you do your rape kit at might even be able to furnish it.

And aren't pro-lifers usually conservative? Get rid of government interference in personal life, right? Of course oddly enough this is always an exception for some reason.
Most people, conservatives included, feel that government agencies should step in when they think murder's afoot.

The fact of the matter is regardless of how you feel about the moral questions raised by abortions, outlawing it and placing women in danger by making them seek non-legal alternatives is quantifiably worse than allowing women to have safe abortions. This is something that we settled with Roe V. Wade forty years ago. We should not be still having this debate.
We shouldn't still be having a debate about whether communism is workable, or whether it's ok to mutilate little boys, or whether it's acceptable to keep someone from voluntarily using a drug but I'm still prepared to have those debates until my dying breath because that's what is required, apparently. Dismiss debate at the peril of your pet issue. You take your own point of view for granted as being the One True Way and that's what's alarming - you're not going to be able to see your own weak spots.
 

PantsFreeZone

Smartest monkey on the spinning space rock
kiwifarms.net
This is actually a politically expedient move.

Something like 80% of Americans disapprove of late-term abortions and 60ish% disapprove of 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions.

I'm actually pro-abortion because it mostly kills potential Democratic voters and makes the mothers less likely to conceive in the future, but I like the push to say "fuck you" to the libs on all fronts.
 

School of Fish

kiwifarms.net
Yeah, this is going to get struck down in the federal courts for obvious reasons

Even Donald Trump himself doesn't fully support banning abortion in the U.S. altogether and he even thinks that abortions should only be limited and available to such cases that involve rape, incest, or if the woman's life is in any danger because Donald Trump is pro-life but even he is pro-life within reason.

But this seem like a push to get the Supreme Court to finally revisit the issue of abortion since Roe vs. Wade to address once again that whether or not that the states can proceed to ban abortions, that abortions should be limited to only special cases, or keep it fully legal as it is.

So yeah, this is going to be one big legal trashfire to watch.
 
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Syaoran Li

Cardcaptors Christmas
kiwifarms.net
Honestly, this dumb ass abortion law would not have been passed had the SJW chucklefucks in Vermont and New York passed their own equally dumb ass abortion laws last year.

In a weird way, the blue state leftists may have doomed Roe v. Wade because they wanted to trigger the Christians some more and spite Mommy and Daddy.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and the Left may have shot themselves in the foot
 

Ashy the Angel

The Cultural Marxist under your bed
kiwifarms.net
Reasonably accessible and feasible is exactly what condoms, birth control, IUDs, cervical caps, diaphragms, jellies, foams, and abstinence all are. Tuboligations tend to require more hoops to jump through and emergency contraceptives seem to vary in availability, but many realistic and effective options exist outside of abortion.
And abortion exists alongside those options. This is like outlawing bikes because its easier to walk, or outlawing Reeboks because Sketchers exist. Its a non-starter of an argument. You don't take away one options just because others exist. You have strong arguments against abortions but this isn't one of them my friend.

If you just had unprotected sex or got raped and you're not on the pill/nuvaring/implant or equipped with an IUD for some reason you immediately know you're at risk of being pregnant and you should be pursuing emergency contraceptives available at drugstores whether you have an ovum sitting there or not. The hospital you do your rape kit at might even be able to furnish it.
All of these options can fail. Refer here for a citation:

In all cases, none of these options outside of abstinence have a 100 percent success rate. I mostly agree with you on this point, there are other options that can be taken. But because I'm a fan of freedom of choice I'm against an option being taken away for arbitrary reasons, especially moral ones.
(Funnily enough the option with the lowest failure rate outside of "not getting raped" is male sterilization)

Most people, conservatives included, feel that government agencies should step in when they think murder's afoot.
Actually that's a bit of a grey area in terms of public opinion. For conservatives of course its black and white but not everyone is conservative. Here's a good breakdown of post-Roe V. Wade feelings on abortion for context:

Really the only time I ever see abortion brought up in a negative light is from conservatives. This bill was manufactured by conservatives and pushed through in a deep south conservative state. The person who signed the damn thing even admits its unenforceable. So this is not as clean cut as you think, which is why I generally speak of my own feelings.

We shouldn't still be having a debate about whether communism is workable, or whether it's ok to mutilate little boys, or whether it's acceptable to keep someone from voluntarily using a drug but I'm still prepared to have those debates until my dying breath because that's what is required, apparently. Dismiss debate at the peril of your pet issue. You take your own point of view for granted as being the One True Way and that's what's alarming - you're not going to be able to see your own weak spots.
Opinions on political systems are quite different from matters of personal freedom in regards to something as basic as conception. I don't dismiss debate lightly, only in the case of things that form the core of my beliefs. This includes civil rights, discrimination, democracy and of course abortion.

Some things we no longer debate. The Sun revolving around the earth, whether blacks are fully human, whether Game of Thrones has good writers. In these instances the evidence has been so strong that its moved it past the area of public discourse. I think, thanks to the safety of modern abortions, that this debate has passed that point as well. Much like the little fetus first starting to grow in a raped woman its pretty much a no-brainer.
 
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