Culture Alabama governor signs nation's most restrictive anti-abortion bill into law - "Unenforceable" bill designed to directly challenge Roe V. Wade

Pocket Dragoon

For one-tenth a soul, or a sexual favor.
kiwifarms.net
I think a lot of people on both sides are missing something, while being all worked up in a froth of "'muh body!" vs. "but, babies!".

It appears most understand that the law is fully intended to challenge to R.v.W. But this law isn't a fundie thing, or even entirely a pro-life thing (which is the opportune vehicle).

It's a States' Rights thing.

Roe vs. Wade is essentially rule by bench fiat; in that a panel of judges, appointed for life, wrote federal diktat on a donkey case, effectively outside of Congress & the Executive, and barring States from making their own more considered laws, and forced them to accept & implement federal programs and/or partisan subsidies (like Planned Parenthood).

This fight is aimed at fixing something bigger, far more oppressive than a bunch of dumb cunts, stupid dicks, and who's at fault or is on the hook for their inability (or refusal) to make good life choices together.
 
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Ineedahero

kiwifarms.net
I don't really want to get involved in this, but I did want to make one point:

Oh yeah, they can definitely choose to go on the lam and not pay child-support. In the case of him deciding whether she should abort it or not he doesn't have to give birth to it, so his say in the decision should be effectively null. And what of his responsibility in causing the pregnancy? Why didn't he wear a condom, or pull out? Why didn't he have a vasectomy?
This argument is annoying as fuck. You don't get to go 'a man should have no responsibility for the decision to abort!' and then, in the same breath, demand to know where the man's responsibility lies for causing the pregnancy. You just absolved him of all responsibility. Also going on the lam and throwing your entire life away to avoid looking after a kid is not a choice. By that logic any woman who is injured during a back alley abortion only has herself to blame.

That said this law is exceptional and should and will be struck down, and if the US wants to have a new national conversation about abortion they should do it right, and have a referendum. Personally I am in favor of killing babies, because it's just so easy.
 

Detrogen

Real Humdinger
kiwifarms.net
As someone else pointed out, the fact that they allow exceptions for potentially fatal pregnancies and severe birth defects almost nullifies any complaints people can have. The only contentious part is here.

“Democrats re-introduced amendment to exempt rape and incest victims, but the motion failed on an 11-21 vote.”

I appreciate that women across the country are collectively reeing about legislation they likely haven’t looked into besides a headline, but the idea of someone being raped and then being forced to bring to term a child resulting from it is fucked. Rape is traumatic enough. I can’t even imagine the effect being forced to go through nine months of severe physical and emotional changes because of it.
 

Azovka

I coulda been a contender
kiwifarms.net
This fight is aimed at fixing something bigger, far more oppressive than a bunch of dumb cunts, stupid dicks, and who's at fault or is on the hook for their inability (or refusal) to make good life choices together.
While I understand your point about Roe v. Wade being a federal ruling, the whole "just make good life choices" bit is pretty wrong and disingenuous.
Did women who got raped make bad life choices?
What about women that do use contraceptive methods and still end up pregnant? They don't have a 100% success rate after all.

Personally, I support the heartbeat bill - if the thing's got a heartbeat, it's alive. But holy shit, I would be the first one in line to get an abortion in the first weeks if it so happened that my contraceptive pill failed, an event that I'm terrified of.

Like yeah, most abortions are indeed for poor, trash women that just wanted their baby daddy to creampie them that much without thinking about consequences or using protection. And in these cases, it is pretty easy to be against abortion because it "serves these thots right".

But there's also cases where women get raped, and contraceptives fail. Hell, even the "morning after" pill, which (at least in France) is automatically given after a rape victim is admitted to the hospital and contains 40 times the amount of hormones a regular pill has does have a failure rate. And punishing all these different cases equally doesn't really make sense.
 

mr.moon1488

kiwifarms.net
As someone else pointed out, the fact that they allow exceptions for potentially fatal pregnancies and severe birth defects almost nullifies any complaints people can have. The only contentious part is here.

“Democrats re-introduced amendment to exempt rape and incest victims, but the motion failed on an 11-21 vote.”

I appreciate that women across the country are collectively reeing about legislation they likely haven’t looked into besides a headline, but the idea of someone being raped and then being forced to bring to term a child resulting from it is fucked. Rape is traumatic enough. I can’t even imagine the effect being forced to go through nine months of severe physical and emotional changes because of it.
The rape argument is pretty dubious. Except in some extremely unusual cases, the doctors can simply administer a "morning after" drug when the rape kit is preformed in the hospital. About the only cases which could cause a conflict in this, would be cases where the woman has been "locked in a dungeon," or in the extremely rare event that the morning after drug didn't work correctly. (in most of those cases, the child isn't viable anyway which would make it a moot point with the law)

In other words:
In the less than 0.1% of cases where the argument could be valid, it can be handled by the normal appeals system in the state.
 
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Dr W

Heaven is void of light
kiwifarms.net
I think a lot of people on both sides are missing something, while being all worked up in a froth of "'muh body!" vs. "but, babies!".

It appears most understand that the law is fully intended to challenge to R.v.W. But this law isn't a fundie thing, or even entirely a pro-life thing (which is the opportune vehicle).

It's a States' Rights thing.
If Alabama wants to ignore federal law with 'muh states rights' then they should secede again.
 

ProgKing of the North

Close to the edge, just by the Riverlands
kiwifarms.net
I'm kinda happy about this honestly, seeing states choose their own abortion laws is a good thing for America.
Why is it a good thing that just because 51% of a state’s population doesn’t like a medical procedure (or gay marriage, or whatever) can outlaw it for everybody? I get states rights as a concept, but a lot of the time it seems to boil down to “it’s not fair that my neighbor is legally allowed to do something I disapprove of”
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
Why is it a good thing that just because 51% of a state’s population doesn’t like a medical procedure (or gay marriage, or whatever) can outlaw it for everybody? I get states rights as a concept, but a lot of the time it seems to boil down to “it’s not fair that my neighbor is legally allowed to do something I disapprove of”
The good news is that state laws aren't decided by a simple majority.
 
Why is it a good thing that just because 51% of a state’s population doesn’t like a medical procedure (or gay marriage, or whatever) can outlaw it for everybody? I get states rights as a concept, but a lot of the time it seems to boil down to “it’s not fair that my neighbor is legally allowed to do something I disapprove of”
Yeah, that is the only view point on this issue, it's just a medical procedure like having your tonsils removed and republicans fight it because they think it's funny when women suffer...

Why do we have laws against murdering your family? Why do you want to control what I do in my own home?
 

ProgKing of the North

Close to the edge, just by the Riverlands
kiwifarms.net
Yeah, that is the only view point on this issue, it's just a medical procedure like having your tonsils removed and republicans fight it because they think it's funny when women suffer...

Why do we have laws against murdering your family? Why do you want to control what I do in my own home?
I get that Republicans fight it because they think it’s murder. I just think they’re wrong.

But even if it’s decided at the state level, it’ll still be legal in some places, so a)it’ll really only affect poor people who can’t afford to travel elsewhere and b)make those who can afford to travel jump through extra hoops. What, in the end, is the benefit to that?

All the energy spent fighting abortion could be used for so many better causes imo
 

Pocket Dragoon

For one-tenth a soul, or a sexual favor.
kiwifarms.net
If Alabama wants to ignore federal law with 'muh states rights' then they should secede again.
Why shouldn't it?

The restrictions imposed upon individual states by Roe v. Wade wasn't decided by Congress, and signed into law by the President.

It was a donkey case, brought before partisan liberal Supreme Court judges. Much as this one is; the exception this time being the lack of a bench stacked with statists.

And beyond that, and the current shitfight everyone's watching, judicial term limits are definitely part of this war.
 
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