Alfred Kinsey - Father of the Sexual Revolution [Historical Perspective]

[EyelessMC]

For others' information that link points to the website of 'Ipce' a.k.a. International Pedophile and Child Emancipation, a pedophile and pederast advocacy organization.

What is the hell? Makes sense considering the book title. Even saw it on Amazon. Still... What in the hell is this IPCE? Is it some kind of international NAMBLA?

 

[Noir drag freak]

And why would the existance of crossdressing in SS lead to the burning of the institute? Seems odd cause and effect.

According to this book I'm currently reading, the nazi party wanted to promote an image of masculinity and traditional morality. Having rumors about cross dressing would undermine that imag

What do you understand "Hirschfeld treated some for their homosexual, intersexuality, and other paraphernalia" to mean?

Maybe "treating" is the wrong word. More like researching homosexuality, transexuality, and other stuff. According to Christopher Isherwood, Hirschfeld would create reports of the patients sex life and measure body parts.

 

[Lemmingwise]

According to this book I'm currently reading, the nazi party wanted to promote an image of masculinity and traditional morality. Having rumors about cross dressing would undermine that imag

What book is that?

 

[Jewthulhu]

Was Kinsey the one who raped his male assistants or is that another "sexologist?" As well as assisted/covered up the crimes of child rapists?
IMO all "sexologists" should be shot and their work burned.

 

[Noir drag freak]

What book is that?

Stormtrooper Families: Homosexuality and Community in the Early Nazi Movement​

I'm also in the middle of reading "Queer Identities and Politics in Germany: A History, 18801945"

 

[Lemmingwise]

Stormtrooper Families: Homosexuality and Community in the Early Nazi Movement​

I'm also in the middle of reading "Queer Identities and Politics in Germany: A History, 18801945"

Thanks.

Your posts about the book seem to imply that it claims german leadership attacked the institute without attacking the homosexuality/crossdressing in its own ranks. Is there any evidence of that?

And if it did attack it in its own ranks, wouldn't it do more than promote an image of traditional morality? Wouldn't it just be a way of promoting traditional morality?

 

[Noir drag freak]

Thanks.

Your posts about the book seem to imply that it claims german leadership attacked the institute without attacking the homosexuality/crossdressing in its own ranks. Is there any evidence of that?

And if it did attack it in its own ranks, wouldn't it do more than promote an image of traditional morality? Wouldn't it just be a way of promoting traditional morality?

It did try to weed out homosexuals and crossdressers. At the same time, the Nazi party wasn't a cohesive yet so homosexuals were able to join as long as they weren't discreet and masculine. There were tons of infighting in the SS because of lack of direction and opposing ideals. Another thing, the homosexuals that joined the Nazi party wanted to remake German society into an Hellenistic one. I'm still reading in middle of reading it.

Party of the draw to Nazism was that the people wanted order, tradition, and masculine virtues. At the same time, there arguments about how to bring that about.

 

[EyelessMC]

Was Kinsey the one who raped his male assistants or is that another "sexologist?" As well as assisted/covered up the crimes of child rapists?
IMO all "sexologists" should be shot and their work burned.

Not the former from what I've gathered and read but definitely the latter. It's amazing how much sexology is intrinsically tied to normalizing outlier sexual predilections and especially always linked in some deep way to pedophilia. Psychologists studying every aspect of the human psyche and behavior is one thing but it seems so much of "sexology", in particular is founders and most influential figures for what's so prominent today--men like those listed in this thread and most certainly Kinsey--is just a realm of perverts, and often violent perverts at that.

It did try to weed out homosexuals and crossdressers. At the same time, the Nazi party wasn't a cohesive yet so homosexuals were able to join as long as they weren't discreet and masculine. There were tons of infighting in the SS because of lack of direction and opposing ideals. Another thing, the homosexuals that joined the Nazi party wanted to remake German society into an Hellenistic one. I'm still reading in middle of reading it.

It's kind of funny when you consider the Internet rightwing has had the same problem.

 

[Bonesjones]

It goes back to the old joke that psychologists go into psychology to learn why they are so fucked up. Sexology is much the same way.

Normal people use sex for intimacy and an orgasm and they might develop a kink or two, it hardly matters in the scheme of things. Since it's a means to an end and not something that overwhelms their thoughts.

 

[Return of the Freaker]

It's kind of funny when you consider the Internet rightwing has had the same problem.

Was just going to bring this up. Last summer there was a post in the Atomwaffen thread quoting some faggot who was waxing poetic about pederasty and how a dick in the ass causes beneficial "alchemical changes" in Aryan boys. It included the immortal line "Will you take it upon yourself to defy the anti-evolutionary trends of society and history and ride, better yet sodomize the tiger"

 

[Noir drag freak]

Was just going to bring this up. Last summer there was a post in the Atomwaffen thread quoting some faggot who was waxing poetic about pederasty and how a dick in the ass causes beneficial "alchemical changes" in Aryan boys. It included the immortal line "Will you take it upon yourself to defy the anti-evolutionary trends of society and history and ride, better yet sodomize the tiger"

It's a warrior culture thing. Chesterton made a statement of how the worship of masculinity could lead to effeminacy.

 

[Return of the Freaker]

It's a warrior culture thing. Chesterton made a statement of how the worship of masculinity could lead to effeminacy.

So basically horseshoe theory was right again

 

[Lemmingwise]

I was going through an old video and E Micheal Jones makes a couple of claims about Kinsey that I wonder if they're accurate. Curious to hear anyone's thoughts on them:

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Claims:
1. "Report" is not a German word (german word is Bericht), but the widespread circulation of the Kinsey report also resulted in pornographic films like "the schuldmadchen report" in the 70s
2. The Kinsey report was popularized in Germany first, in the fifties and later popularized in the US in the sixties.

The short video also goes into 2nd world war, Magnus Hirschfeld and Wilhelm Rheich.

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Thoughts:

I don't think #2 is true; Hefner was famously inspired by Kinsey, who started playboy in 1955. Of course something doesn't have to be popular to be inspired by it, but it causes me to doubt the timeline.

Another thing, the homosexuals that joined the Nazi party wanted to remake German society into an Hellenistic one.

I think there's a good chance that the Greeks being all pederasts is a modern re-imagination of the past. I've ran into the argument, but I've never really looked into it, so I don't know one way or to other, to be honest. I'll not parrot someone elses thought and just share an unsourced image that seems somewhat credible to me (and my biases I suppose).

If anyone is more knowledgable on the subject, maybe you @Noir drag freak, please tell me more.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Also, have a free book.

As well as some other materials Judith Reisman sent me after I e-mailed her.

Save it. Read it. Verify it. Learn.

 

[EyelessMC]

I was going through an old video and E Micheal Jones makes a couple of claims about Kinsey that I wonder if they're accurate.

E Michael Jones is a bit of a meme scholar so it's good to take what he relays from his research with a grain of salt.

Claims:
1. "Report" is not a German word (german word is Bericht), but the widespread circulation of the Kinsey report also resulted in pornographic films like "the schuldmadchen report" in the 70s

Any number of things, pornographic or otherwise, could have been inspired by Kinsey so I suppose it's possible.

2. The Kinsey report was popularized in Germany first, in the fifties and later popularized in the US in the sixties.

Kinsey's reports were first published in 1948 in America as I recall so I doubt that. As you say, Hefner referenced it as a great inspiration in the 50's as well, and the Reports were already being pushed to influence legal code before the 60's I think. It's mentioned in the short vid in the OP.

The short video also goes into 2nd world war, Magnus Hirschfeld and Wilhelm Rheich.

Hey, that's kinda neat! This thread has already touched on these pre-Kinsey figures and others, and now we have EMJ talking about it. Goes to show the thread is a step ahead at research and discussion.

Spoiler: My 2 Cents on Rome

I think there's a good chance that the Greeks being all pederasts is a modern re-imagination of the past. I've ran into the argument, but I've never really looked into it, so I don't know one way or to other, to be honest.

Caligula and especially Nero prove the depravity of the Roman elite by far, or at least their tendency to it. Artwork and further suggest pederasty was also endemic to certain spheres of the broader culture and slaves both male and female had no human rights, from what I remember reading. Rome wasn't a constant porn set or a pedophile dream from what I know but rather an empire that was in a constant struggle over its moral fiber and power.

Also, have a free book.

As well as some other materials Judith Reisman sent me after I e-mailed her.

Save it. Read it. Verify it. Learn.

Top tier! I didn't know the old lady was still alive. Nice going, man. This will be really interesting stuff

 

[Lemmingwise]

Top tier! I didn't know the old lady was still alive. Nice going, man. This will be really interesting stuff

It's surprising that there are all these interesting people alive with email addresses advertised openly online.

Caligula and especially Nero prove the depravity of the Roman elite by far, or at least their tendency to it. Artwork and further suggest pederasty was also endemic to certain spheres of the broader culture and slaves both male and female had no human rights, from what I remember reading. Rome wasn't a constant porn set or a pedophile dream from what I know but rather an empire that was in a constant struggle over its moral fiber and power.

Sure but Roman elite =/= greeks. Caligula came around right after the hellenestic era.

Slaves had some legal rights depending on the period.

 

[Noir drag freak]

I think there's a good chance that the Greeks being all pederasts is a modern re-imagination of the past. I've ran into the argument, but I've never really looked into it, so I don't know one way or to other, to be honest. I'll not parrot someone elses thought and just share an unsourced image that seems somewhat credible to me (and my biases I suppose).

If anyone is more knowledgable on the subject, maybe you @Noir drag freak, please tell me more.

View attachment 2137704

I haven't study Classical Greek history. But I think that maybe it's more a myth than anything. For one thing, Christians and others would like to portray the pagans as sexual degenerates to boast their moral authority. I would bet the classical world probably had diverse opinions about sexual behavior. Ironically, Christians claim that all the Classical world were nothing but pederast would be bite them in the behind. In mid 1850s , proto homosexuals would use the claim that the Greeks were homosexual to boost their pre-homosexual image.

Also, have a free book.

As well as some other materials Judith Reisman sent me after I e-mailed her.

Save it. Read it. Verify it. Learn.

I currently reading the first book , chapter 3 and I find that the author has a Christian bent.

AMERICAN MEN: ELIMINATING FATHERS 93bootleggers, con men, dope peddlers, gamblers, hold-up men, pimps, prostitutes, etc.”28 For Kinsey, the only sex crimes which qualified as “underworld” were those that involved economic gain, such as prostitution and pandering. Consistent with his eugenic training and beliefs, which typically disregarded marital status and parent-hood while focusing on occupational and economic status, Kinsey conjured up ten human resource categories,290. Dependent1. Underworld2. Day Labor 3. Semi-Skilled Labor4. Skilled Labor5. Lower White-Collar Group6. Upper White-Collar Group7. Professional Group8. Business-Executive Group9. Extremely Wealthy GroupHe claimed to have interviewed at least 300 persons from each. However, only the “Underworld” population would likely have provided the degree of sexual deviance he typically sought. If we accept that he did indeed interview at least 300 members of the “Underworld,” it is a safe assumption that he included them in his Male volume data. But since few sex predators perpetrate their crimes for economic profit, they would have been excluded from the “Underworld,” and would instead have resurfaced in other categories. This statistical sleight-of-hand had the advantage of increasing the number of males in apparently normal occupations, while decreasing their numbers in deviant/sex offender populations. For Kinsey, homosexuals, as a special (or “coded”) category, did not exist.

It's funny that she mentioned Brave New World, Aldous Huxley was a eugenicist. I have more to say

 

[Lemmingwise]

I currently reading the first book , chapter 3 and I find that the author has a Christian bent.

Yeah, she has some odd takes; like that all pornography is homosexuality (and therefor immoral). I could elaborate on why it's a somewhat well supported idea even if it sounds retarded the first time one hears it. But it's worth reading her stuff not so much for her takes/opinion but rather for the research.

There's some interesting things in the past, like the time she was on Dutch tv and said that playboy was involved with production of child pornography. They sued her for this; and then she proved in court that they had published child pornography in their magazine.

Now the thing is; she had said they had published "thousands of such images, photos and cartoons of children" (not direct quote). And then she proved it in court by producing thousands of such images from playboy magazines. Pretty stunning stuff, to be honest.

In any case; I don't worry when Michael Jones says if Poland was filled with african catholics it would do just as well as now with white catholics, nor do I worry about reading Reisman's research for some of her opinions, despite her being ethnically jewish or religiously christian. I want to know what connections they found and if those connections are accurate.

 

[Noir drag freak]

Yeah, she has some odd takes; like that all pornography is homosexuality (and therefor immoral). I could elaborate on why it's a somewhat well supported idea even if it sounds retarded the first time one hears it. But it's worth reading her stuff not so much for her takes/opinion but rather for the research.

There's some interesting things in the past, like the time she was on Dutch tv and said that playboy was involved with production of child pornography. They sued her for this; and then she proved in court that they had published child pornography in their magazine.

Now the thing is; she had said they had published "thousands of such images, photos and cartoons of children" (not direct quote). And then she proved it in court by producing thousands of such images from playboy magazines. Pretty stunning stuff, to be honest.

In any case; I don't worry when Michael Jones says if Poland was filled with african catholics it would do just as well as now with white catholics, nor do I worry about reading Reisman's research for some of her opinions, despite her being ethnically jewish or religiously christian. I want to know what connections they found and if those connections are accurate.

How is pornography homosexuality?

 

[Lemmingwise]

How is pornography homosexuality?

It's a bit of a derrail, so I'll pm the argument to you when I have time to fully lay it out, or we can start a new thread. if you really want me to.

Probably somewhere later this week or beginning of the next. It's a controversial position and I don't believe it's true, but I want to do it justice and lay out the argument as well as I can.

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edit: This thread revived some of my interest and I saw this tonight, where Reisman says Chinese professors contacted her in 2007 after a book about Kinsey was translated to Chinese and they saw considerable change in sexual behaviour in young Chinese people.