Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

[Morethanabitfoolish]

That's what worries me. Are we truly living in a world that's so illiterate, they get surprised by things that happened in books written years ago? The fact that most of Game of Thrones' audience were surprised about the Red Wedding and Oberyn Martell's death showed me that they barely read the books, even though they should have started reading the books after they got hooked by the end of Seasons 1 or 2.

So yeah, there are people who are legit asking whether or not Omni-Man can be redeemed as a kind of deep question about the character, when comic readers know the answer to that already.

Yes, because things that are animated or televised reach an audience they never did before who have no interest in the source material. Invincible is going to be a fine example of this because the future to it is a winding road of mediocrity mostly and I look forwards to mediocre paid for articles talking about the bold twists in the plot that already happened years ago and were out there to look up.

For me, I just go back and play the Injustice games or read Watchmen. This whole "Superheroes as assholes" thing has already been old hat when DC and Netherrealm made Injustice: Gods Among Us. Now, it might as well be its own genre. I mean, shit, even Dragon Ball Z had assholes (or former assholes) who served alongside the heroes like Piccolo and Vegeta. Adding another one to the pile won't rock the superhero capeshit landscape.

Injustice comics were unmitigated drek, no clue on the games. But yeah it's been done many times, debatably when Invincible first did it it was a bit more novel. I preferred the Superman/Elite stuff because it was exploring the superheroes with no line they were unwilling to cross in contrast to Superman as opposed to the more common evil Superman niche. It's nothing great but it's reasonably solidly done.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Something that I think is starting to happen is we're getting to the point where outside of the "THINK MARK" meme, the violence, and Amber being a cunt, people are starting to lose interest in the show. The momentum is starting to slow down because it's not new anymore. The twitter page (yeah I know) doesn't do anything but post memes. "Superman but evil" isn't the only part of Invincible, but it's the thing that got most people interested in the first place, to the degree they think that's what the entire show actually is about at this point.

And the funny thing is, that concept has been beaten to death. Shit, Injustice: Gods Among Us does it better, since at least the evil Superman went full-on evil and took control of the world, getting some of the heroes to his side and eradicating everyone else. If Omni-Man actually planned out the conquest, he'd have used some great catastrophe (like say, Nolan using an alter-ego and Viltrumite tech to empower some bad guys and have THEM take out the Guardians of the Globe AND the major world governments) to propel himself to power and create a regime that would rule over Earth. He'd subject every super-hero to his will, including his son, because by that time, there'd be no other choice. Then when the regime's reign is secure and he's killed off all the bad guys, he can then have Earth, which by that point is now his private duchy, join the Viltrum Empire, since by that time, nothing on Earth can resist him anyways. Comparing Omni-Man to other evil Superman types just makes him look like a slacker who let his emotions get in the way.

Sure they announced 2 seasons, but no release date for either. It could be years before we even hear any news about a season 2. At the same time the entire story is technically finished, meaning there's a lack of stuff to really discuss unless they really shift major parts of the story around. And if comic does dip in quality like I heard it has I wonder how faithfully it'll be adapted for the show.

I predict that people will be disappointed once they see the later chapters.

Spoiler: FUTURE EVENTS

Especially since Omni-Man reverts back to being a good guy, and eventually takes his whole damn race with him to become defenders of the Earth once it is revealed that he's the rightful heir to the throne. So imagine Omni-Man reverting back to being a good Superman, taking with him several Viltrumites who, like Vegeta from DBZ, opt instead to mix with the humans instead of conquering them.

Once that happens, it's just going to be your standard superhero show, not that different from Dragon Ball Super or the Justice League cartoon.

Omni Man is going to be gone for a pretty long time. Will people still give a shit about Invincible past this first season?

For the people who didn't read the comic, yes. But for people who did, they're just waiting until the rest of the story from the comic gets shown. Unless, of course, they make some changes to that.

I just think it's a lack of self awareness. It's what happens when you're woke as fuck but not too smart.

Basically, yes. A girl like Amber would get smacked upside her head for being a twat if the story was written by people who aren't wokesters.

Sidenote, I really with they had used Ottley's art as an inspiration for the character designs in the show. Corey Walker's stuff isn't bad, but it's kind of bland in comparison, which doesn't go well with the animation which itself is all over the fucking place in terms of quality. Maybe if they cut the celebrity voice actors they'd have more budget for some actually good animation.

I don't think they'll scale back on the celebrity VOs. Half the appeal of Invincible as a show is the celebrity voice cast because of TEH MEMES. A quarter of all Omni-Man comments boils down to them making J. Jonah Jameson jokes about not getting those Spider-Man pictures on time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the celebrity VO characters get more scenes.

Yes, because things that are animated or televised reach an audience they never did before who have no interest in the source material. Invincible is going to be a fine example of this because the future to it is a winding road of mediocrity mostly and I look forwards to mediocre paid for articles talking about the bold twists in the plot.

You'd at least expect some of these people to go look up the wiki and read up on summaries of what happened in the comics or novels. I mean, that's what I did after I first watched Invincible, and that's also the same thing I did after first watching Game of Thrones. And people think this is going to be bold when in reality, it'll just be a weird mish-mash of Justice League and Dragon Ball Z/Super.

Injustice comics were unmitigated drek, no clue on the games. But yeah it's been done many times, debatably when Invincible first did it it was a bit more novel. I preferred the Superman/Elite stuff because it was exploring the superheroes with no line they were unwilling to cross in contrast to Superman as opposed to the more common evil Superman niche. It's nothing great but it's reasonably solidly done.

Just the games. I didn't pay attention to the comics.

When it comes to evil Superman stories, two examples stick out to me: the first Injustice game, and the Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths film. There we got good examples of evil Superman types and what they would logically do with the powers they have; assemble a team of like-minded individuals and attempt to take control of the world by force. The fact that Omni-Man never tried that despite spending over a decade on Earth confuses me. Especially later down the line when his lineage gets revealed.

Shit, if I were Omni-Man, my plan would have been totally different.

Spoiler: HOW I WOULD WRITE INVINCIBLE

If I were Omni-Man, I would set my sights on the Viltrumite throne and have the Earthlings develop ways for me to get stronger and kill Thragg. Instead of going to Earth to weaken it, Omni-Man would actually be on Earth because he's a political refugee; he's the rightful heir to Viltrum's throne, but he can't claim it since Thragg is stronger. Omni-Man would work as a superhero with Cecil and the Guardians, while pretending to be there to weaken the planet for Viltrum, when in reality, Nolan's real plan is to have the Earthlings help him find a way to become stronger so he can one day challenge Thragg one on one and kill him. Once that's done, Omni-Man and his son would go to Viltrum, and Nolan would reveal his true heritage to the Viltrumites in broad daylight, challenging Thragg to single combat. After Thragg dies, Nolan's first act as Emperor would be to pronounce Earth as an ally of Viltrum, or as a self-governing commonwealth of the Empire a la Puerto Rico as thanks for their assistance. Then he'd make peace with the Coalition of Planets and just focus on trade.

Sure, that misses out on the massacre of the Guardians, but that would make Nolan more consistent.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Something that I think is starting to happen is we're getting to the point where outside of the "THINK MARK" meme, the violence, and Amber being a cunt, people are starting to lose interest in the show. The momentum is starting to slow down because it's not new anymore. The twitter page (yeah I know) doesn't do anything but post memes. "Superman but evil" isn't the only part of Invincible, but it's the thing that got most people interested in the first place, to the degree they think that's what the entire show actually is about at this point.

Sure they announced 2 seasons, but no release date for either. It could be years before we even hear any news about a season 2. At the same time the entire story is technically finished, meaning there's a lack of stuff to really discuss unless they really shift major parts of the story around. And if comic does dip in quality like I heard it has I wonder how faithfully it'll be adapted for the show.

That's true for just about every piece of mainstream media nowdays. It doesn't exist to make you think, heck it doesn't even exist to be good, the only thing Invincible exist for is making the people to lazy to pirate it to sign up to Amazon Prime. When it gets a second season in two years we'll have the same song and dance with the pushed memes, gratuitous violence and the "You've got to check it out bro, it's like superheroes but DARK!".

The entire capeshit genre became a combination of every bad aspect of the various comic "ages". Dark age violence and maturity that isn't mature. Silver age shitty plotlines and Golden age self aggrandisement.

 

[God of Nothing]

I feel this was an element in the original comic that doesn't really age well especially with how the MCU seems to be smarter in handling the secret identity fiasco for the most part.

Like I can buy that explanation for characters like Eve since she isn't some big shot hero like Omni-Man but it was really dumb for Omni-Man. If secret identities were also done away with it could've also fixed the dumb Amber subplot with her real concern with Mark being that a superhero would be too much for her to handle like in the comics instead of "YOU LIED TO ME AND YOU DIDN'T COME TO THE SOUP KITCHEN WITH ME TO HELP!" bullshit

It was written in the early 2000s before technology and media went absolutely insane. A lot of things were added that weren't even in the original comic. The entire Omni-Man plot took place in just two issues.

I wonder if they're going to lampshade the obviousness of Mark's identity by having Cecil chew him out for flying everywhere in the second season before Man in Blacking his neighbors for what is the umpteenth time. Most of that goes away when he decides to drop the civvie life entirely, a turn for the better really. It's like what Machine Head told Titan, what the fuck are you going to find work as?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That's true for just about every piece of mainstream media nowdays. It doesn't exist to make you think, heck it doesn't even exist to be good, the only thing Invincible exist for is making the people to lazy to pirate it to sign up to Amazon Prime. When it gets a second season in two years we'll have the same song and dance with the pushed memes, gratuitous violence and the "You've got to check it out bro, it's like superheroes but DARK!".

Basically, yes. Its concept isn't even that novel, other works have done it more justice. The most they can do is find new ways to make capeshit gore look more entertaining, which I'm all up for, but it won't be anything new for me.

The entire capeshit genre became a combination of every bad aspect of the various comic "ages". Dark age violence and maturity that isn't mature. Silver age shitty plotlines and Golden age self aggrandisement.

You're basically looking at a genre that has been mutated beyond what it once was in the eyes of the old guard comic book writers. Veteran comic writer Alan Moore once spoke of modern superhero media in rather damning terms:

“I hate superheroes. I think they're abominations. They don't mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine-to-13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently. These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them. It's an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men.

Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal. This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don't think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s."

It was written in the early 2000s before technology and media went absolutely insane. A lot of things were added that weren't even in the original comic. The entire Omni-Man plot took place in just two issues.

Back then, such a story of an evil Superman would have been novel. But now, it's an overburdened market.

I wonder if they're going to lampshade the obviousness of Mark's identity by having Cecil chew him out for flying everywhere in the second season before Man in Blacking his neighbors for what is the umpteenth time. Most of that goes away when he decides to drop the civvie life entirely, a turn for the better really. It's like what Machine Head told Titan, what the fuck are you going to find work as?

I suppose Mark Grayson can find work being a particularly strong lumberjack or a cargo-handler. Super speed and strength does have its perks.

 

[God of Nothing]

Basically, yes. Its concept isn't even that novel, other works have done it more justice. The most they can do is find new ways to make capeshit gore look more entertaining, which I'm all up for, but it won't be anything new for me.


You're basically looking at a genre that has been mutated beyond what it once was in the eyes of the old guard comic book writers. Veteran comic writer Alan Moore once spoke of modern superhero media in rather damning terms:

“I hate superheroes. I think they're abominations. They don't mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine-to-13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently. These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them. It's an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men.

Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal. This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don't think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s."


Back then, such a story of an evil Superman would have been novel. But now, it's an overburdened market.


I suppose Mark Grayson can find work being a particularly strong lumberjack or a cargo-handler. Super speed and strength does have its perks.

Evil Superman is so inaccurate though. I get the parallels, but it's outright shown numerous times to you through the show Nolan's incredibly conflicted. It's up to interpretation until Mark finally breaks through to him, though you can still look into his emotions during those scenes. Evil Kryptonians without all the excess powers would be more accurate.

Mark wants to be a hero is the problem. And Cecil isn't the type of guy to leave him be, seeing as how he manipulated him into encountering Allen again. He's also got a long ass life-span that makes any kind of normal life difficult after a certain point.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Evil Superman is so inaccurate though. I get the parallels, but it's outright shown numerous times to you through the show Nolan's incredibly conflicted. It's up to interpretation until Mark finally breaks through to him, though you can still look into his emotions during those scenes. Evil Kryptonians without all the excess powers would be more accurate.

Nolan's more like being torn between being a good soldier and being a good family man, and he chooses the latter eventually. It isn't really that surprising to me, especially since Viltrumites don't really care that much for each other and are more along the lines of being power-obsessed nutcases, like the Saiyans.

Mark wants to be a hero is the problem. And Cecil isn't the type of guy to leave him be, seeing as how he manipulated him into encountering Allen again. He's also got a long ass life-span that makes any kind of normal life difficult after a certain point.

And that's the problem. Trying to mix regular life with being a hero while a government schmuck is watching him like a hawk. And of course, eventually Mark's going to become more emotionally distant after enough of his friends die off from old age.

 

[God of Nothing]

Nolan's more like being torn between being a good soldier and being a good family man, and he chooses the latter eventually. It isn't really that surprising to me, especially since Viltrumites don't really care that much for each other and are more along the lines of being power-obsessed nutcases, like the Saiyans.


And that's the problem. Trying to mix regular life with being a hero while a government schmuck is watching him like a hawk. And of course, eventually Mark's going to become more emotionally distant after enough of his friends die off from old age.

Nolan's moral dissonance needs to definitely be played up more. I hope the show expands more on the Viltrumites in general. They were the best part of the comic. Being the driving force behind the main conflict also helps.

i cannot wait until the absolute mad man Kregg

 

[Oats12345]

And the funny thing is, that concept has been beaten to death. Shit, Injustice: Gods Among Us does it better, since at least the evil Superman went full-on evil and took control of the world, getting some of the heroes to his side and eradicating everyone else. If Omni-Man actually planned out the conquest, he'd have used some great catastrophe (like say, Nolan using an alter-ego and Viltrumite tech to empower some bad guys and have THEM take out the Guardians of the Globe AND the major world governments) to propel himself to power and create a regime that would rule over Earth. He'd subject every super-hero to his will, including his son, because by that time, there'd be no other choice. Then when the regime's reign is secure and he's killed off all the bad guys, he can then have Earth, which by that point is now his private duchy, join the Viltrum Empire, since by that time, nothing on Earth can resist him anyways. Comparing Omni-Man to other evil Superman types just makes him look like a slacker who let his emotions get in the way.


I predict that people will be disappointed once they see the later chapters.

Spoiler: FUTURE EVENTS

Especially since Omni-Man reverts back to being a good guy, and eventually takes his whole damn race with him to become defenders of the Earth once it is revealed that he's the rightful heir to the throne. So imagine Omni-Man reverting back to being a good Superman, taking with him several Viltrumites who, like Vegeta from DBZ, opt instead to mix with the humans instead of conquering them.

Once that happens, it's just going to be your standard superhero show, not that different from Dragon Ball Super or the Justice League cartoon.


For the people who didn't read the comic, yes. But for people who did, they're just waiting until the rest of the story from the comic gets shown. Unless, of course, they make some changes to that.


Basically, yes. A girl like Amber would get smacked upside her head for being a twat if the story was written by people who aren't wokesters.


I don't think they'll scale back on the celebrity VOs. Half the appeal of Invincible as a show is the celebrity voice cast because of TEH MEMES. A quarter of all Omni-Man comments boils down to them making J. Jonah Jameson jokes about not getting those Spider-Man pictures on time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the celebrity VO characters get more scenes.


You'd at least expect some of these people to go look up the wiki and read up on summaries of what happened in the comics or novels. I mean, that's what I did after I first watched Invincible, and that's also the same thing I did after first watching Game of Thrones. And people think this is going to be bold when in reality, it'll just be a weird mish-mash of Justice League and Dragon Ball Z/Super.


Just the games. I didn't pay attention to the comics.

When it comes to evil Superman stories, two examples stick out to me: the first Injustice game, and the Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths film. There we got good examples of evil Superman types and what they would logically do with the powers they have; assemble a team of like-minded individuals and attempt to take control of the world by force. The fact that Omni-Man never tried that despite spending over a decade on Earth confuses me. Especially later down the line when his lineage gets revealed.

Shit, if I were Omni-Man, my plan would have been totally different.

Spoiler: HOW I WOULD WRITE INVINCIBLE

If I were Omni-Man, I would set my sights on the Viltrumite throne and have the Earthlings develop ways for me to get stronger and kill Thragg. Instead of going to Earth to weaken it, Omni-Man would actually be on Earth because he's a political refugee; he's the rightful heir to Viltrum's throne, but he can't claim it since Thragg is stronger. Omni-Man would work as a superhero with Cecil and the Guardians, while pretending to be there to weaken the planet for Viltrum, when in reality, Nolan's real plan is to have the Earthlings help him find a way to become stronger so he can one day challenge Thragg one on one and kill him. Once that's done, Omni-Man and his son would go to Viltrum, and Nolan would reveal his true heritage to the Viltrumites in broad daylight, challenging Thragg to single combat. After Thragg dies, Nolan's first act as Emperor would be to pronounce Earth as an ally of Viltrum, or as a self-governing commonwealth of the Empire a la Puerto Rico as thanks for their assistance. Then he'd make peace with the Coalition of Planets and just focus on trade.

Sure, that misses out on the massacre of the Guardians, but that would make Nolan more consistent.

In all fairness J.K Simmons has voice other animated shows in the past

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Nolan's moral dissonance needs to definitely be played up more. I hope the show expands more on the Viltrumites in general. They were the best part of the comic. Being the driving force behind the main conflict also helps.

They really should have played up his moral dissonance more. As for the Viltrumites, it would be interesting to see how the rest of them turn out in the show.

i cannot wait until the absolute mad man Kregg

I can't wait to see how they handle Thragg.

In all fairness J.K Simmons has voice other animated shows in the past

Yes, he's a rather prolific voice actor when it comes to animated shows.

 

[Oats12345]

They really should have played up his moral dissonance more. As for the Viltrumites, it would be interesting to see how the rest of them turn out in the show.


I can't wait to see how they handle Thragg.


Yes, he's a rather prolific voice actor when it comes to animated shows.

So he's not a celebrity voice actor but a regular. It's similar to Mark Hamill

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You're basically looking at a genre that has been mutated beyond what it once was in the eyes of the old guard comic book writers. Veteran comic writer Alan Moore once spoke of modern superhero media in rather damning terms:

“I hate superheroes. I think they're abominations. They don't mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine-to-13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently. These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them. It's an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men.

Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal. This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don't think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to enterta

Fuck Alan Moore. The single work people know him for is about edgelord superheroes, whining about what he helped create is just obnoxious.

Also if anything, modern capeshit is far closer to Moore's vision than the comics of the past. Everything is cynical and overly complex.

 

[God of Nothing]

Fuck Alan Moore. The single work people know him for is about edgelord superheroes, whining about what he helped create is just obnoxious.

Also if anything, modern capeshit is far closer to Moore's vision than the comics of the past. Everything is cynical and overly complex.

I thought the message of Watchmen was how people with power gradually lose sight of what good for the common man really is. Manhattan and Ozy both think the ridiculous plot would work, even though all it'd do was delay the inevitable and kill a bunch of people before it happens. They get fucked over by Rorschach afterward anyway.

It did cause an effect he didn't foresee when it became popular. Same with how people like Rorschach even though he intended for him to be abhorrent. He really should've done something other than nitty gritty though. Come on, man, you're writing capeshit, even if it's supposed to be bullshit 'deconstructionist.' Lampshading how ridiculous it is doesn't make it any less ridiculous when you do it.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Still laughing that they managed to get a black character called Darkwing into the show in current year.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I thought the message of Watchmen was how people with power gradually lose sight of what good for the common man really is. Manhattan and Ozy both think the ridiculous plot would work, even though all it'd do was delay the inevitable and kill a bunch of people before it happens. They get fucked over by Rorschach afterward anyway.

It did cause an effect he didn't foresee when it became popular. Same with how people like Rorschach even though he intended for him to be abhorrent. He really should've done something other than nitty gritty though. Come on, man, you're writing capeshit, even if it's supposed to be bullshit 'deconstructionist.' Lampshading how ridiculous it is doesn't make it any less ridiculous when you do it.

I see Watchmen as more of a general "what would happen if heros were real" where Superman is above it all, and the rest of the heroes are fucked up in some ways.

And also about how people react to a crisis. You have the globohomo trying to engineer society, a cuck, a thot, a shitposter that laughs at everything while doing nothing, and a guy that talks big but can't do anything beyond the local sphere. Though I will say that Moore's biggest failure is that Rorschach was the most likable character because, surprise, people would rather respect a person with ideals who kills criminals even if the guy is technically a criminal for it.

 

[JimiHendrix]

read the entire comic because i was bored and i like comics.

Mark is very boring in the show and pretty boring in the comic, but does get interesting with his moral shifting about whether it's right to kill or not.

comic has some hilarious over the top dark moments, a character confesses to having been raped and then not TEN seconds later finds out their baby has stopped breathing.

lot of plot holes. a character figures out a way to pretty much 100% defeat Viltrumites, so this character beats them every time he has to, then when it's time for him to lose he suddenly forgets the method to beat them. shit like that.

the tv show and comic, their order of events are significantly different and some things that happened, major things, in the comic seem like they won't be possible in the tv show now. so i am curious how that is handled.

overall was entertaining but not anything amazing.

 

[God of Nothing]

Still laughing that they managed to get a black character called Darkwing into the show in current year.

The most hilarious fucking thing is he was originally white.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Fuck Alan Moore. The single work people know him for is about edgelord superheroes, whining about what he helped create is just obnoxious.

That’s always been what’s funny about him. The constant complaining about how comics are not for 9-13 year olds anymore but he never wrote ones that were. And he could have done.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Comparing Omni-Man to other evil Superman types just makes him look like a slacker who let his emotions get in the way.

Which considering how the last scene with him in the show goes, is exactly what he is.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

The most hilarious fucking thing is he was originally white.

That’s...brilliant.