Amber's finances - assumptions galore

pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
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Assuming she makes at least in the very high 30ks from youtube, then yes, she is. In her area, at least. Standard middle class in the US ranges from 40k to 120k, but it depends on the area, and could skew a bit higher or a bit lower. Podunk nowhere, 35k. Major Major metro? 150k.
ETA: that doesn't mean she's not still white trash.
Middle class to me is a property owner, kids in private school, a good salaried employment/business owner, educated to a good standard etc

To me she's just a chav - thick, idle, tacky, no social graces etc...the equivalent to "trailer trash".
 

SituationTypeThing

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Middle class to me is a property owner, kids in private school, a good salaried employment/business owner, educated to a good standard etc

To me she's just a chav - thick, idle, tacky, no social graces etc...the equivalent to "trailer trash".
Are you telling me there aren't property owning chavs in essex?

Middle class, in the US at least, is a financial determination. What you've described is what I'd consider upper middle class to upper class. (a combination of all of those things, not just one or another).

Amber is white trash, or trailer trash - though I avoid using that term with british people after an unfortunate experience describing someone as "trailer trash" to a group of people, several of whom where travelers, it was awkward), a chav, a bogan if you're in australia. But financially, she's still middle class. She doesn't live a middle class lifestyle, but she's in the middle class earning bracket.
 

pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
kiwifarms.net
Are you telling me there aren't property owning chavs in essex?

Middle class, in the US at least, is a financial determination. What you've described is what I'd consider upper middle class to upper class. (a combination of all of those things, not just one or another).

Amber is white trash, or trailer trash - though I avoid using that term with british people after an unfortunate experience describing someone as "trailer trash" to a group of people, several of whom where travelers, it was awkward), a chav, a bogan if you're in australia. But financially, she's still middle class. She doesn't live a middle class lifestyle, but she's in the middle class earning bracket.
Of course there are property owning chavs...even in chav central Essex. :) (chav - "It comes from a Romany word, ‘chavi’ which means child and this is quite a well established etymology and it happened in the south east of England that this was borrowed into English and it’s sort of spread from there via the internet and the media and these kinds of things, it’s sort of spread. ")

So the UK / US have very different determinations, ok. Despite her finances I doubt very much she'd be seen as anywhere near middle class in the UK....like I said, a chav through and through.

eta: yeah travellers here are very touchy with what you call them - they see themselves as some sort of "protected class", the majority of the UK feel differently.
 

SituationTypeThing

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Of course there are property owning chavs...even in chav central Essex. :) (chav - "It comes from a Romany word, ‘chavi’ which means child and this is quite a well established etymology and it happened in the south east of England that this was borrowed into English and it’s sort of spread from there via the internet and the media and these kinds of things, it’s sort of spread. ")

So the UK / US have very different determinations. Despite her finances I doubt very much she'd be seen as anywhere near middle class in the UK....like I said, a chav through and through.

eta: yeah travellers here are very touchy with what you call them - they see themselves as some sort of "protected class", the majority of the UK feel differently.
In the US, people can slide up (or down) the financial class structure without sliding up (or down) the societal class structure. Your tax bracket has no bearing on your societal class. It doesn't matter how much Amber makes, she'd be seen as trash by almost everyone she encountered in the US. But she's an anomaly, like most youtubers, SM influencers and reality stars in today's economy. Kind of like the internet millionaires of the 2000's. Most people who are upwardly mobile do have the trappings or background (education) to speak for their upward mobility. They don't have to literally flash their cash ALR-purse-style to show their financial status. Amber makes a good living for her area, but it doesn't mean she's not a classless, tacky, lump of trash.

Re: the traveler/trailer trash comment -I didn't know they were travelers, I didn't even know what a traveler or a Roma/Romany was. But these were girls who I guess left the travelers community to be trained as beauticians at a company whose home office is in the US (which I now know is rare for travelers). I worked for the company, they were in the US on a posting transfer, we went for a drink and they asked about the Rosanne show and if a lot of america was like that, I said, no Rosanne portrayed trailer trash. They asked me to repeat it several times, and then conversed in what I imagine was traveler cant, like Romany Cant, and then explained why it was so offensive to them. I wished I had just said "white trash"
 

TomatilloSalsa

Easy Peasy Portuguese-y
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No one, nobody is left to die! There are community/statec hospitals who treat the uninsured. People like the homeless, who have no money, no ID, etc. I read an article - I’ll see if I can find it,-about a woman like that with kidney cancer. She was treated. It was slow, it took longer for her to get on whatever programs there are, but it is ILLEGAL for a hospital not to treat a patient and it always has been.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The only part of a hospital that is under any obligation to treat whoever comes in the door is the emergency department. And all they have to do is stabilize you. Not cure you. Not heal you. Stabilize you. As in, make a reasonable effort to keep you from dying right there in the waiting room.

ERs don't treat cancer. That's not what they're there for. And if AL goes to a cancer center and says, "I have cancer. I don't have insurance." They're going to say, "Then you have to pay us a cash deposit or we're not doing anything for you."

One of my family friend's boyfriend was in liver failure for a while. Not sure exactly what caused it. All I know is he didn't have health insurance, he wasn't poor enough to get on Medicaid, but he was too poor to buy his own health insurance or pay cash to get treatment. So basically he kept getting worse and worse. If he got really sick, he'd go to the ER, they'd drain the fluid that was building up in his body, get his heart stabilized, and then send him home. But that didn't treat or cure his underlying liver failure so eventually he'd have to go back. They told him he'd ultimately need a liver transplant, but he had no way of paying for that. A few weeks ago, on one of his ER trips, they told him he was too far gone and that the best they could do was send him home to be on hospice care until he died. They sent him home and he was dead the next day.

So, yes, actually, you can certainly be left to die.

Sorry for the powerleveling.

She will likely have access to charity for the destitute and to payment plans for treatment from public hospitals.
Payment plans, yes. Charity care, no. You have to prove you don't have as much as two nickels to rub together before they'll just see you for free out of the goodness of their hearts. You have to meet with a financial counselor at the hospital. You have to give them everything - tax returns, pay stubs, car notes, information about your rent or your mortgage. The tiniest asset you might have will be excuse to deny you assistance. You have a 2018 Honda? Well, you should sell that and buy a $1,000 beater and put the rest of the money toward your hospital bill and then maybe they'll talk about writing some stuff off. The burden of proof will be on AL.
 

darkwingosonichugorl

Let me tell you the potential of my balls.
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I also don't want to powerlevel, but I've seen people way worse off and more deserving of compassion than Amber effectively be told to fuck off and left to die by hospital for financial reasons, a couple even had insurance. If Amber thinks she'll skate through this not paying shit, she very likely has a rude awakening coming.
 

pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
kiwifarms.net
I also don't want to powerlevel, but I've seen people way worse off and more deserving of compassion than Amber effectively be told to fuck off and left to die by hospital for financial reasons, a couple even had insurance. If Amber thinks she'll skate through this not paying shit, she very likely has a rude awakening coming.

Good. Couldn't happen to a more deserving case.
 
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BhertMern

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If Amber thinks she'll skate through this not paying shit, she very likely has a rude awakening coming.
This is a little OT from the talk of insurance and payment plans for treatments, but speaking of free services she could get free hospice care if there's a nonprofit organization in her area. Could is the key word. No hospice organization is going to want her. Hospice nurses aren't fans of the morons who cause their own terminal health problems. And you're probably thinking, no shit Sherlock, but it goes beyond checking up on and bathing giant adult toddlers who can't wipe themselves. Incoming PL, but from what I've witnessed every time a super morbidly obese person gets accepted into hospice by my local hospital there is a 100% chance the fire department will be called multiple times. For anyone unaware, hospice patients can stay at home and be visited by traveling nurses. Whenever the deathfats need or want to be in a different room of their home for an extended period of time they have to call the fire department. Then the fire fighters have to figure out how to move a massive blob without hurting them or getting them stuck in a doorway or hallway. And depending on how uncooperative the hamplanet feels that day, it can take hours. During this time the nurse cannot leave, and they have to call the other nurses, backup, or the backup for the backup to see the rest of their patients. Sounds like there's plenty of help available, but in my neck of the woods there isn't, and it's time taken away from patients who both need and deserve it.

And volunteers certainly don't want to go help clean up a fatty's home, or worse, have to help bathe the deathfat. There's already a lot of volunteers dense enough to think that all they're going to do is sit down a read to a sweet dying person, and they peace out as soon as you tell them they need to help with chores, mow the lawn, walk the dog, pick up groceries, or anything like that. The nurses usually don't let the volunteers tag along for the fatty visits anyway, because they don't want to scare them off. It's happened in the past due to body odor caused by yeasty folds, the snippy enablers, the pissed hamplanet questioning where there food is or why someone else has a soda/sports drink/whatever and they don't, the boohooing about any minor movement or discomfort, the list goes on and on.

But since this is Amber we're talking about I don't see her actually committing to anything that doesn't involve more junk food and subscription boxes.
 

Pinky&Perky

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Middle class to me is a property owner, kids in private school, a good salaried employment/business owner, educated to a good standard etc

To me she's just a chav - thick, idle, tacky, no social graces etc...the equivalent to "trailer trash".
I guessed you were from the UK by your response to her being called 'Middle Class' the class system in the US confuses me - to us it is status not money that defines you class - and I have never seen her buying quinoa from Waitrose lol
 

Pinky&Perky

kiwifarms.net
Are you telling me there aren't property owning chavs in essex?

Middle class, in the US at least, is a financial determination. What you've described is what I'd consider upper middle class to upper class. (a combination of all of those things, not just one or another).

Amber is white trash, or trailer trash - though I avoid using that term with british people after an unfortunate experience describing someone as "trailer trash" to a group of people, several of whom where travelers, it was awkward), a chav, a bogan if you're in australia. But financially, she's still middle class. She doesn't live a middle class lifestyle, but she's in the middle class earning bracket.
The middle call in
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The only part of a hospital that is under any obligation to treat whoever comes in the door is the emergency department. And all they have to do is stabilize you. Not cure you. Not heal you. Stabilize you. As in, make a reasonable effort to keep you from dying right there in the waiting room.

ERs don't treat cancer. That's not what they're there for. And if AL goes to a cancer center and says, "I have cancer. I don't have insurance." They're going to say, "Then you have to pay us a cash deposit or we're not doing anything for you."

One of my family friend's boyfriend was in liver failure for a while. Not sure exactly what caused it. All I know is he didn't have health insurance, he wasn't poor enough to get on Medicaid, but he was too poor to buy his own health insurance or pay cash to get treatment. So basically he kept getting worse and worse. If he got really sick, he'd go to the ER, they'd drain the fluid that was building up in his body, get his heart stabilized, and then send him home. But that didn't treat or cure his underlying liver failure so eventually he'd have to go back. They told him he'd ultimately need a liver transplant, but he had no way of paying for that. A few weeks ago, on one of his ER trips, they told him he was too far gone and that the best they could do was send him home to be on hospice care until he died. They sent him home and he was dead the next day.

So, yes, actually, you can certainly be left to die.

Sorry for the powerleveling.



Payment plans, yes. Charity care, no. You have to prove you don't have as much as two nickels to rub together before they'll just see you for free out of the goodness of their hearts. You have to meet with a financial counselor at the hospital. You have to give them everything - tax returns, pay stubs, car notes, information about your rent or your mortgage. The tiniest asset you might have will be excuse to deny you assistance. You have a 2018 Honda? Well, you should sell that and buy a $1,000 beater and put the rest of the money toward your hospital bill and then maybe they'll talk about writing some stuff off. The burden of proof will be on AL.
Christ that is so distressing - I am so lucky to be born in the UK - The NHS is not perfect but the idea of dying of an illness because I can not afford to pay the extortionate prices charged by unscrupulous capitalist pharmacy companies horrifies me
 

pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
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I guessed you were from the UK by your response to her being called 'Middle Class' the class system in the US confuses me - to us it is status not money that defines you class - and I have never seen her buying quinoa from Waitrose lol
She'd hear the part "Wait...." and waddle off fearing anorexia.
 
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MirnaMinkoff

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No one, nobody is left to die! There are community/statec hospitals who treat the uninsured. People like the homeless, who have no money, no ID, etc. I read an article - I’ll see if I can find it,-about a woman like that with kidney cancer. She was treated. It was slow, it took longer for her to get on whatever programs there are, but it is ILLEGAL for a hospital not to treat a patient and it always has been.

Amber presumably has money and an income. That will prevent her going to charity hospitals-until it’s gone. Then she can, or by then she can join an exchange. Because she has money, she will certainly pay, probably everything in the bank and anything of value she owns. But she’ll get treatment.

I think because our insurance rules seem complicated (they aren’t really) this notion of people going untreated took hold. And, a President got elected by lying about it. But it’s not true. If they aren’t treated it’s because they don’t know where to go and haven’t tried. Nobody dies of cancer in this country untreated unless they want to. Chance Carmichael, one of our deathfats, didn’t have insurance (although he lied a few times) and he had long hospital stays, with dieticians, PT, home health.

Amber is vague on her disease. But assuming she has the most common type of cancer, it’s slowgrowing and stage 1. (70% of people with her cancer have that).

if she can, she can do case pay and call hospitals and cancer centers and get different price structures and negotiate. She’s not smart enough, but she could.

The best thing for her would be some hormonal medication to slow it down further, then get on one of the exchanges (Obamacare) in November. January she’ll be able to have treatment and since 2014 they can’t take pre-existing conditions into account. From now until January she should be losing weight so when Jan. Comes around she can safely have surgery. That’s what a smart person would do. She’s not smart, but with dedication she could get down to 300 lbs by January.

She’ll have to play the odds that she has an easy stage 1, because if cancer is into her uterine muscle wall or lymph’s she should have it our faster, or if her histology shows it’s more dangerous. But that isn’t known until after surgery (except histology) One clue is it’s grade 2, if she got that right. That means she maybe could wait safely.

Either way, she’ll get treatment.

But I honestly hope this wipes her out. That is mean, but I remember her flashing $1500 in cash at the same time as being coy about insurance. That money probably went to candles, earrings, snap backs and junk food. That maybe could have paid for a few months or more of insurance (I don’t know Kentucky’s prices) but while I can’t wish death on anybody, I can wish for a little financial justice.

it took a tremendous amount of hubris for a 500 lb women who had money to ignore her health. But she won’t die.
People die all the time because they can’t afford treatment.

its illegal for ER’s not to treat you, not hospitals. Hospitals don’t have to admit anyone for chronic treatment - only women in labor and something like emergency trauma patients which is through the ER anyway. Otherwise they can refuse to treat non-insured patients and do, esp if the patient already has unpaid bills.

Cancer treatment isn’t done in ERs so shit out of luck there.

Homeless people get treatment thanks to Medicaid footing the bill. This is how most “state” hospitals function, almost all their “charity” cases they get enrolled in Medicaid. They have social workers that do the application for the patient on-site. Homeless people get better care than some middle class people because Medicaid is 100% coverage, no absurd deductible or co-pays, plus free Rx.

People can and do die from lack of affordable cancer care all the time. A guy I dated had a huge hospital bill from an ER visit because his insurance sucked. The hospital account dept claimed they could help him if he had trouble affording the bill. What they asked for was to fill out an application so they knew exactly which assets to put liens on if he didn’t pay up and agree to their “payment plan”. It was down right sinister.

Someone that finds out they have liver cancer and maybe three years to live with treatment that will bankrupt the family, chose not treat it and die within a year with some pain management - is not an uncommon scenario. More common is people who discover cancer once it’s already stage 4 because getting regular care and checks was too expensive so they only seek care when shit hits the fan.

Obamacare helped address many big gaps but still for many people quitting their job and going broke so they qualify for Medicaid is the only option if they have a serious disease that requires expensive treatment.

Amber's refusal to get insurance is about more than insurance. Amber was unwilling to get access to regular, routine healthcare. Insurance was just one excuse. Just like her "molestation" excuse for not going to the gyno. I have no doubt that her choice to go uninsured also had to do with her being cheap, immature and imagining nothing would ever go wrong. But mainly, she's afraid of routine visits, of checkups, of blood work that isn't related to an emergency, thus scrutinized for all the values. She's afraid of being told she needs to lose weight, and afraid to be nagged about that. She has all of these issues, real or made up (like the fear of pills, taking tylenol isn't a stepping stone to meth) that she controls by not having insurance.

And as for charities and state hospitals, they're not going to treat her till she's well and truly penniless. They have a fiduciary responsibility to donors and state budget allocations to treat the actual destitute. Not the irresponsible middle class. Her only hope of free treatment, outside of scamming the system, is if NIH or a research hospital is enrolling for a study or clinical trial that amber's cancer fits into.

You know what would be justice? Amber needing to get her ass a job that has insurance because she makes too much on youtube, but not enough to pay her bills and be charity eligible.
Amber just couldn’t stand paying $300-600 per month for health insurance. But another factor is that the insurance marketplace requires tax returns to enroll and I don’t think she has been paying any taxes, regardless of what she says. (Maybe she finally got scared into doing it last year or so but I have my doubts. There’s a reason Amber tries to have shit put under everyone’s else’s name - rent, car, credit cards, phones, etc...
 
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pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
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"What they asked for was to fill out an application so they knew exactly which assets to put liens on if he didn’t pay up and agree to their “payment plan”. It was down right sinister. "
If the final bill is massive can they force someone to sell their family home to meet it?
 

PB4ZZZ

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If the final bill is massive can they force someone to sell their family home to meet it?
If you're alive? Possibly, but unlikely...family homes with a lot of equity in them can be mortgaged or a home equity line of credit can be used to pay bills.

If you die with massive medical debt Hospitals can sue the estate for the money, family might sell home to pay off debt. MediCaid can also attach a lien on your home to collect their due after a person dies.
 

Pudgy Bear Claws

turdswallop
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If the bills get too big, I just assume she'll start ebegging. She's burned through a lot of goodwill but there are enough Ambabies out there that she'll probably be fine, moneywise. Her rotten crotch will probably still be the death of her but I could see her both raising money on GoFundMe and monetizing her cancer porn.
 
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Beetus Knuckles

Scopely has one hell of a business model!
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This is squarely Amber’s fault for putting herself in this “situation.” Unchecked medical bills in the US could put anyone, even an upper-middle class person—into financial ruin. The cost for a surgery plus chemo or radiation will easily be $300,000 or more. This cost could have been mitigated with health insurance, but of course that would require Amber to take responsible adult action to obtain it in the first place, as well as pay the monthly premium out of her binge and Wommart cash.

She could have limited her personal financial liability to $10,000 or less with a catastrophic policy, or potentially even less with a better tier plan. But now she’s on the hook for at least all of her costs at least for the remainder of 2020. Even if she makes around half of what she claims, Amber makes way more than the eligibility limit for expanded Medicaid in KY. I’m guessing she will milk her cancer diagnosis for all it’s worth in YouTube bux for the rest of the year, obtain a Marketplace policy for 2021 and get treated, and then take a break and file for bankruptcy.
 

MirnaMinkoff

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If the final bill is massive can they force someone to sell their family home to meet it?
If its your primary residence, probably not. It’s protected in bankruptcy proceedings as long as it’s not some obscenely expensive mansion. They can do “liens” against property and I’m aware of them actually wining judgments where payments are deducted out of ppl’s paychecks before they receive them.

It’s all depends on the size of the bill and who they are going after. They don’t bother with smaller bills except to sell it off to collection agencies for pennies on the dollar. For many just the damage it can do to your credit score will get ppl to make payments, but for a poorer person who has shitty credit anyway they resort to more aggressive tactics if they know the person has income or assets and isn’t making even token efforts to pay a big bill.

People used to pay $10 month for ten years to pay off the hospital for the cost of child birth. It was a running joke that the kid was only paid off by the time he was seven - stuff like that.

(Now a days in the USA 43% of all births were paid for by Medicaid so nearly half the kids born in the USA are born to ppl poor enough to qualify for it. But on the flip side you do get better care if you have private insurance. It can be hard to get into a doctor that accepts Medicaid because they are full up. Many doctors I’ve gone to don’t accept Medicaid - only private insurance. Its almost like a split business model - doctors and hospitals that mainly deal with Medicaid patients and private ones that don’t. The exception is ERs which are required by law to accept Medicaid patients and from what I understand most ERs are basically funded by Medicaid and Govt funds because they aren’t profitable for hospitals and very costly to run.)
 

Turd Fergusson

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Christ that is so distressing - I am so lucky to be born in the UK - The NHS is not perfect but the idea of dying of an illness because I can not afford to pay the extortionate prices charged by unscrupulous capitalist pharmacy companies horrifies me
Most modern state funded health care systems have flaws but if you are sick, you will be treated and it will not bankrupt you. Unfortunately, there are people who abuse the system and should be banned from it.

Case in point: Paul Mason

U.K bloke who got a free bariatric surgery when he was 70 st (980 lb), moved to the U.S. then got skin removal but got kicked out (stole food), gained most of the weight back, now wants £100k of surgery to get another bariatric surgery and knee and hip surgeries. This would be the U.K. equivalent of “white trash”
 
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pr3nt177

I don’t even tell people I’m trans anymore
kiwifarms.net
Most modern state funded health care systems have flaws but if you are sick, you will be treated and it will not bankrupt you. Unfortunately, there are people who abuse the system and should be banned from it.

Case in point: Paul Mason

U.K bloke who He a free bariatric surgery when he was 70 st (980 lb), moved to the U.S. then got skin removal but got kicked out (stole food), gained most of the weight back, now wants £100k of surgery to get another bariatric surgery and knee and hip surgeries. This would be the U.K. equivalent of “white trash”
I remember reading about him at the time.
1592221677036.png

Not sure what he's up to these days, last I heard he was waiting on the UK system to provide him with housing plus disability benefits. Fecking entitled git.
 

DefCon Dumb

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I watched a documentary about him - it's on YouTube. To do his surgery, they had to reinforce the operating room, recovery room, the room he'd be in post-op & I think, some of the halls. They also had to procure a lot of bariatric & other special equipment. The rationale was a slimmer man would in the long term, be less of a burden on the NHS. I wasn't aware he'd moved, regained the weight & wants another surgery.

I know what my answer would be.
 
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