Apple removes Fortnite from App Store over dispute of 30% commission -

AnOminous

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You are so jealous it is fucking obvious. The Epic Games store is trash. Its worse than any launcher out there.
How much would it even cost to have a minimally functional launcher? Or a shopping cart? I'd assume there are scale issues that make it more difficult than the mom-and-pop level shopping cart online store any clown can get on squarespace, so it wouldn't be cheap but it has to be cheaper than suing Apple like a fucking retard, or even a single one of these idiotic exclusives.
 

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How much would it even cost to have a minimally functional launcher? Or a shopping cart? I'd assume there are scale issues that make it more difficult than the mom-and-pop level shopping cart online store any clown can get on squarespace, so it wouldn't be cheap but it has to be cheaper than suing Apple like a fucking retard, or even a single one of these idiotic exclusives.
It's around 21 months since the store launched... and there's still no shopping cart.

I think the thing that also rankled me about the exclusives is that he didn't actually, you know, make them true exclusives - he just made them unable to sell on steam. Don't get me wrong, it's scummy either way, especially when it was previously promised to come to steam, but there's something petty about making it okay to sell on other platforms as long as you don't sell on steam.

But, in some weird way, he actually taught a lot of game buyers... patience? In a market that rewards but discourages it? So thanks for making your system so shite it discouraged some of my worst habits, I guess.

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Anyway, regarding the lawsuit and as a TL ; DR for the Hoeg Law stuff, it seems like at least the first big issue will be deciding whether 'app distribution' and 'in-app purchases' should be considered one market or two. If it's two, Epic's standing on a great position. If it's one, they're in trouble.

I'm genuinely not sure whether it should or shouldn't, but I can't see any other platform enthusiastically endorsing that position. That fucks over anyone who processes in-app purchases through their own platform, which is every console. Steam might be okay, but Steam's already got a reason not to help Epic.

They're currently looking at Preliminary injunctions. Basically, Epic wants the 'status quo' while the trial is ongoing to reflect their desired outcome - the game's hosted on the app store and all in-app purchases only go to Epic. Imagine if there was someone on trial for murder, but their lawyer argued that there was evidence they were in an entirely different country on the day of the crime, and therefore he shouldn't be kept like a criminal because he was likely innocent. That's basically a preliminary injunction.

The two shakiest stances Epic has in this injunction, at least based on how the judge has ruled so far, is that:
1: Epic is likely to win this case (the judge at least doesn't think it's so cut-and-dry) and
2: The current situation is causing 'irreparable harm'. (The reason this isn't holding up is because, as I understand it, self-inflicted harm is not considered irreparable, and Apple just wants things to go back to the way they were - Epic back on the App Store, not playing stupid games.)
 
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Marissa Moira

kiwifarms.net
I'm wondering if the rumor is true that TES harvested buyer's info without their consent.

I mean that would explain the sad state the store is in, the store was just a front.
 

AnOminous

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The two shakiest stances Epic has in this injunction, at least based on how the judge has ruled so far, is that:
1: Epic is likely to win this case (the judge at least doesn't think it's so cut-and-dry) and
2: The current situation is causing 'irreparable harm'. (The reason this isn't holding up is because, as I understand it, self-inflicted harm is not considered irreparable, and Apple just wants things to go back to the way they were - Epic back on the App Store, not playing stupid games.)
Where's the irreparable harm? If they win, Apple pays them money for any damages. They're good for it. In the interim they have their own platform. If they're claiming Apple has some unique service they provide that they need, well, they need to buy it on Apple's terms. Apple says 30 percent. If they don't like it they can lump it.

I don't see a judge in a preliminary injunction phase just saying well, let's just break the entire distribution model games currently work on, pending actually deciding this one specific case. Apple's practices are fairly similar to those of Valve, at least with regard to their distribution model and pimp cut of the profits. There are really two basic ways of distributing software like games and one is going through someone else's platform and the other is making your own. Big and small companies do either, or often both.

Epic, by comparison, can't seem to get along with literally fucking anyone.
 

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Where's the irreparable harm? If they win, Apple pays them money for any damages. They're good for it. In the interim they have their own platform. If they're claiming Apple has some unique service they provide that they need, well, they need to buy it on Apple's terms. Apple says 30 percent. If they don't like it they can lump it.

I don't see a judge in a preliminary injunction phase just saying well, let's just break the entire distribution model games currently work on, pending actually deciding this one specific case. Apple's practices are fairly similar to those of Valve, at least with regard to their distribution model and pimp cut of the profits. There are really two basic ways of distributing software like games and one is going through someone else's platform and the other is making your own. Big and small companies do either, or often both.

Epic, by comparison, can't seem to get along with literally fucking anyone.
I think it's more a legal term than a realistic interpretation. And not being able to do business in an area for months or even years definitely hurts.

On that last point, however, people brought up that Epic's risked unreal support on iOS for this. Not only would that harm their engine's popularity if they failed, it might harm their popularity regardless because now you know Epic's willing to risk your project to play dumb games.
 

AnOminous

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I think it's more a legal term than a realistic interpretation. And not being able to do business in an area for months or even years definitely hurts.
Well, yes, of course it's a legal term, but it does mean irreparable harm, that is, harm that can't be undone by a monetary award at the end of the case. If the only issue is monetary damages, and Apple is good for them, which they are, there's no irreparable harm.
 

INVCTS

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Well, yes, of course it's a legal term, but it does mean irreparable harm, that is, harm that can't be undone by a monetary award at the end of the case. If the only issue is monetary damages, and Apple is good for them, which they are, there's no irreparable harm.
How does harm that is extremely hard to quantify in monetary terms count? Not something that's impossible to represent through money, but something that is almost impossible to quantify due to a moving target?

The amount of value placed on new users for an addictive game is pretty insane.

From a finance/banking perspective, I'm pretty sure our sales department would sale their mothers to boost their new users who stayed on the platform metric.
 

AnOminous

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How does harm that is extremely hard to quantify in monetary terms count? Not something that's impossible to represent through money, but something that is almost impossible to quantify due to a moving target?
If they wanted to argue that (and I believe they have), a good comparison would be a movie's opening weekend, where for instance if you miss the exact window in a season to open, you might lose the entire opportunity to have a successful movie.

In this case, you balance the harms. A request for a temporary restraining order or preliminary injunction weighs the harms to either party, along with whether it is irreparable, and while who is harmed most isn't dispositive by itself (it is also weighed against the likelihood of the suit succeeding), it's one of the most vital considerations.

Generally if the balance of harms depends on who wins, i.e. if the person the injunction is against will be harmed most should the plaintiff actually lose, but have obtained interim relief, the trial court can require the party requesting the injunctive relief to put up a bond for the potential damages.

So Epic could win a somewhat pyrrhic victory if they somehow get an injunction but have to put up $100 million bond, or something similarly ridiculous, for potential damages, then ultimately lose.
 
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LegoTugboat

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The main problem(s) for Epic are...

1. The biggie. This is Godzilla vs Mothra. No indie dev wants to get caught in the middle. They're gonna run like hell from Unreal.
2. Sweeney's amazing inability to keep his mouth shut on Twitter is certainly not going to make any business want to deal with him, just in case there's a small hiccup and Sweeney loses his shit.
3. It's kinda hard to show Apple as being entirely big, bad and evil when you have merch, a 60 page lawsuit, and an ad campaign lined up saying that they're dickholes.
 

Marissa Moira

kiwifarms.net
I hope Sweeny becomes the next John McAfree and this just breaks his brain and he shoots his neighbor and then escapes to some little fuck off island where he builds a dome house powered by solar energy and farts and he wears a suit consisting of tiny quartz crystals that he claims are cosmic healing energy crystals and that there are mind slugs i n everyone's brain because High Fructose Corn Syrup has tiny brain slug eggs in it.
 

AnOminous

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Apple has counter sued Epic for damages.
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if this looks like shit I’m on mobile, will fix when I have the ability*
Here's the docket if you want to follow the case:

1599602216629.png


Excellent opening paragraph. The first sentence, in addition to being perfect for quotes by the media, establishes the factual basis for the argument against the injunction, i.e. there is no irreparable harm here. This is a dispute purely about money. Even though there are not even any actual damages and Epic stands little chance of prevailing, even if they did, their damages could be cured with a monetary award.

So if the court accepts just the opening sentence here, there's no reason to grant an injunction, which is the worst thing Apple faces from this case. There's currently a limited injunction just on the Unreal dev accounts, but the rest are fair game and Apple has already axed them.
 

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kiwifarms.net
Winston Churchill gets a lot of quotes misattributed to him.

Favourite part of the doc so far, emphasis mine::

Apple’s concerns about Epic’s request were hardly theoretical. The experience of Fortnite outside of the iOS environment illustrates the importance of Apple’s approach to app review and security. In 2018, Fortnite announced that Android versions of the game would be available on the web, and immediately sites appeared that not only advertised Android Fortnite but also distributed malware in the game. As one commentator noted, “Unsurprisingly, malware versions of Fortnite targeted unsuspecting gamers in the months following the Android launch, which is what malicious individuals would do with any popular app that’s available from outside the app store.” By 2019, Epic acknowledged security vulnerabilities in non-iOS versions of Fortnite that exposed hundreds of millions of players to being hacked. Although Apple does not leave it to any developer to keep the iOS platform safe and secure, Epic in particular had demonstrated that it could not be entrusted with this type of responsibility.
 

ZMOT

wat
kiwifarms.net
Excellent opening paragraph. The first sentence, in addition to being perfect for quotes by the media, establishes the factual basis for the argument against the injunction, i.e. there is no irreparable harm here. This is a dispute purely about money. Even though there are not even any actual damages and Epic stands little chance of prevailing, even if they did, their damages could be cured with a monetary award.

So if the court accepts just the opening sentence here, there's no reason to grant an injunction, which is the worst thing Apple faces from this case. There's currently a limited injunction just on the Unreal dev accounts, but the rest are fair game and Apple has already axed them.
what money tho? epic literally told the uk government that fortnite doesn't make any, to downplay how much dosh they rake in with selling digital crack to kids.

Apple has counter sued Epic for damages.
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karma really does exist, but it's awfully slow. otoh it was just a matter of time till epic pisses of the wrong corp that will just shit on those litigious cunts.

:story:
 
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Pissmaster

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The lack of a shopping cart to this day still perplexes me. Even Nintendo has a shopping cart on the Switch eShop. What the fuck is wrong with them? Never, ever fall behind Nintendo in terms of online features.

This greedy/monopolist fallacious liar thinks he's super important and doing everyone a good.
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That checkyourfact website said:
Some blogs credit French writer Victor Hugo with penning the quote. A similar expression appears in a passage of his written work “Things Seen,” according to one website. “You have enemies?” the quote reads. “Why, it is the story of every man who has done a great deed or created a new idea.”
But we all know who really said it:

Eminem-Quotes-9.jpg
 

AnOminous

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what money tho? epic literally told the uk government that fortnite doesn't make any, to downplay how much dosh they rake in with selling digital crack to kids.
Doesn't matter at this point, what matters is their legal argument is about money.
 
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