Apple Thread - The most overrated technology brand?

[malt ipecac]

I wish Apple would release the new iMac displays as displays. I would buy one, no question.

~220 PPI is perfect for a computer monitor, and only Apple seems to produce such displays. Yes, it's nice to have a 4K display for consuming native-4K media like movies, but almost nobody actually does that (for most people, "4K" usually means something along the lines of "compressed YouTube/Netflix streams that use a setting called '4K',").

Should I blame the public for not understanding PPI as a metric? Why are people so hung up on the absolute number of pixels?

I have a dream that one day, displays will be judged not by the number of pixels they contain, but by the size of their pixels.

 

[DoubleD]

Apple continues to blueball us with the lack of Macbook Pro updates.

It's been an entire development cycle since they announced Apple Silicon in WWDC last year (which is my way of saying 'not quite a year, but it sure feels like it'), and the high-end Macbook Pros are still the soon-to-be-obsolete Intel models. The low-end Macbook Pros have Apple Silicon, but they still have the awful old 2-port design, Touch Bar instead of F-keys, and basically the same specs as a Macbook Air.

If a better laptop wasn't immediately on the horizon, I'd probably just resign myself to buying an Air. But given the rumours of a redesigned model with more ports including an SD card slot (an actual viable workaround for Apple's obscene storage prices is to buy a flush-mount adapter and a terabyte SD card, expensive as they are right now) and the rumours that it would be announced at this year's WWDC, I can't have been the only one who watched that entire 2-hour presentation and wanted to flip a table at the end of it.

Latest news from MR is that they've been delayed to next quarter by mini-LED shortages. And you know what? Fine. I could wait a few months for a better display, if it wasn't for the fact that I've had to wait since 2016 for a Mac laptop that didn't totally suck.

 

[Least Concern]

Apparently, by using a tool that lets you see internal tags added to the video, you can see that the YouTube version of the WWDC stream was tagged with "m1x" and "m1x macbook pro." Note the right column:





Source

 

[Joe Swanson]

Apparently, by using a tool that lets you see internal tags added to the video, you can see that the YouTube version of the WWDC stream was tagged with "m1x" and "m1x macbook pro." Note the right column:

View attachment 2246394



Source

Not too surprising, a lot of people were expecting them to announce the m1x, so even though they didn't, it'd still direct people to the keynote if they searched it

 

[Enig]

It's about time Intel people felt the same pain everyone did in 2005 when they had to wait over an entire year to replace the Powercrotchburner G4

 

[AnOminous]

The iPhone SE is actually a fairly underrated treasure.

 

[DoubleD]

The iPhone SE is actually a fairly underrated treasure.

Which one? The first is a shrunk down iPhone 6S (the last to be sold in that size) while the other, released four years later, is an iPhone 11 with a home button and no FaceID.

The only thing they have in common is that they were made from older components and sold at a somewhat decent price for once.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Apple continues to blueball us with the lack of Macbook Pro updates.

It's been an entire development cycle since they announced Apple Silicon in WWDC last year (which is my way of saying 'not quite a year, but it sure feels like it'), and the high-end Macbook Pros are still the soon-to-be-obsolete Intel models. The low-end Macbook Pros have Apple Silicon, but they still have the awful old 2-port design, Touch Bar instead of F-keys, and basically the same specs as a Macbook Air.

If a better laptop wasn't immediately on the horizon, I'd probably just resign myself to buying an Air. But given the rumours of a redesigned model with more ports including an SD card slot (an actual viable workaround for Apple's obscene storage prices is to buy a flush-mount adapter and a terabyte SD card, expensive as they are right now) and the rumours that it would be announced at this year's WWDC, I can't have been the only one who watched that entire 2-hour presentation and wanted to flip a table at the end of it.

Latest news from MR is that they've been delayed to next quarter by mini-LED shortages. And you know what? Fine. I could wait a few months for a better display, if it wasn't for the fact that I've had to wait since 2016 for a Mac laptop that didn't totally suck.

I’m glad that I haven’t been in the market for a new laptop the last couple of years, because holy fuck MacBook Pro’s since 2016 have been inexcusable. Even the 2015 model started the trend of gimping functionality for slimness, though not to the extent of completely ruining the device and still adding enough (better display + black magic non-tactile touchpad) to still feel like an upgrade.

My 2015 Pro was starting to shit itself with like 2 hours of standby battery life but a complete wipe and update to Big Sur seems to have fixed the issue, and I hope I can squeeze another 4-5 years out of it.

 

[DoubleD]

Even the 2015 model started the trend of gimping functionality for slimness

Wait. No. You mean the 2012 model.

I can understand the confusion since the last good model (Unibody) came out in 2012 at the same time as the first bad one (Retina), and stayed on sale for a long time after it, but make no mistake: every Macbook Pro from this period with a Retina Display has been underspecced garbage.

I suppose Macs have always been underspecced, but at least until then you could upgrade the RAM and the hard drive for cheap.

I remember putting a 2 tb drive into my Unibody Pro (remember when that was still a thing?) around 2012-ish, and it pissed me to no end that this would not be an option in any of the just-announced Retina models. Going forward, you could only use the RAM and SSD built into the machine. Then, year after year, they refused to increase the maximum SSD size or drop the prices. So any new laptop I could buy to replace my current one would have been a downgrade. And even then, it cost fuck-you money just to get the 1 tb option.

The 13-inch models were even more nerfed with regards to RAM, not supporting more than 8 gb until late 2013 (halfway into the Retina generation), despite it being possible to put 16 gigs of 3rd-party RAM in all the later Unibody models.

The 2 tb storage option didn't arrive until 2016, and even then, only in the 15-inch model. The 13-inch model finally got it in 20-fucking-18. But both of these were in the Butterfly Keyboard generation and cost fuck-you-even-more money. So even if my current laptop had died, I'd have given them a hard pass.

But yeah, I should have really said "since 2012" in my last post, because that is really how long Macbook Pros have sucked for. I only hesitated to say it because Apple didn't stop selling the last Unibody model until 2016 - four years after its release date.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Wait. No. You mean the 2012 model.

I can understand the confusion since the last good model (Unibody) came out in 2012 at the same time as the first bad one (Retina), and stayed on sale for a long time after it, but make no mistake: every Macbook Pro from this period with a Retina Display has been underspecced garbage.

I suppose Macs have always been underspecced, but at least until then you could upgrade the RAM and the hard drive for cheap.

I remember putting a 2 tb drive into my Unibody Pro (remember when that was still a thing?) around 2012-ish, and it pissed me to no end that this would not be an option in any of the Retina models going forward. You could only use the RAM and SSD built into the machine, despite year after year when they refused to improve the SSD sizes or drop the prices. So any new laptop I could buy to replace my current one would have been a downgrade. And even then, it cost fuck-you money just to get the 1 tb option.

The 13-inch models were even more nerfed with regards to RAM, not supporting more than 8 gb until late 2013 (halfway into the Retina generation), despite it being possible to put 16 gigs of 3rd-party RAM in all the later Unibody models.

The 2 tb storage option didn't arrive until 2016, and even then only in the 15-inch model. The 13-inch model finally got it in 20-fucking-18. But both of these were in the Butterfly Keyboard generation and cost fuck-you-even-more money. So even if my current laptop had died, I'd have given them a hard pass.

But yeah, I should have really said "since 2012" in my last post, because that is really how long Macbook Pros have sucked for. I only hesitated to say it because Apple didn't stop selling the last Unibody model until 2016 - four years after its release date.

Yep you’re right, I forgot the rMBP line actually was introduced back in 2012 (I was thinking of the 2015 refresh that added the digital touchpad).

I really do like Apple’s other devices, but their computers have been really shit for a long while now if you want to do anything more than the bare minimum with them.

 

[Least Concern]

I remember putting a 2 tb drive into my Unibody Pro (remember when that was still a thing?) around 2012-ish, and it pissed me to no end that this would not be an option in any of the just-announced Retina models.

Sorry to "um akshually" you, but I know that it's possible to upgrade the SSD in some of the later models, at least up to the 2015 rMBP. They just used a custom connector for the SSD, so you either had to get an SSD with that connector (I know OWC made/is making some) or an adapter for standard M.2 drives, which can be had for pretty cheap on Amazon. EDIT: And you also had to get funky screwdrivers for the screws they use externally, IIRC, but again, cheap from Amazon - God bless globalism and Shenzhen sweatshops.

But yes, upgradability has been on the decline across Apple's product line for decades. Maybe, if they reverse the decision about being miserly on ports for the MBP, they'll reverse the decision about not making at least RAM and storage upgradable as well.

 

[Menotaur]

Number of times updates have fucked my windows - lost count
Number of times security risks got through my windows - lost count.
Number of times Windows has crashed - lost count.

Number of times my apple computer fucked up - twice.

I'll take apple thanks.

 

[AnOminous]

Which one? The first is a shrunk down iPhone 6S (the last to be sold in that size) while the other, released four years later, is an iPhone 11 with a home button and no FaceID.

The one from this year, MHF83LL/A. The main thing it's missing is 5G but tbh idgaf about 5G.

 

[Never Scored]

Number of times updates have fucked my windows - lost count
Number of times security risks got through my windows - lost count.
Number of times Windows has crashed - lost count.

Number of times my apple computer fucked up - twice.

I'll take apple thanks.

Number of times Tim Cook gave me aids in my asshole- lost count

 

[Least Concern]

Many new Monterey features won't work on Intel Macs, including the new OCR stuff and on-device text-to-speech.

I don't think it's cool that they would do this while still selling Intel Macs.

 

[Enig]

Many new Monterey features won't work on Intel Macs, including the new OCR stuff and on-device text-to-speech.

I don't think it's cool that they would do this while still selling Intel Macs.

This would be a good time to go back and research the PPC to Intel transition to get an idea of how fucked the old hardware ends up getting in less than a year.

 

[DoubleD]

Sorry to "um akshually" you, but I know that it's possible to upgrade the SSD in some of the later models, at least up to the 2015 rMBP. They just used a custom connector for the SSD, so you either had to get an SSD with that connector (I know OWC made/is making some) or an adapter for standard M.2 drives, which can be had for pretty cheap on Amazon. EDIT: And you also had to get funky screwdrivers for the screws they use externally, IIRC, but again, cheap from Amazon - God bless globalism and Shenzhen sweatshops.

But yes, upgradability has been on the decline across Apple's product line for decades. Maybe, if they reverse the decision about being miserly on ports for the MBP, they'll reverse the decision about not making at least RAM and storage upgradable as well.

I almost forgot that OWC made drives with the custom connecter. Good for them. Although for what it's worth, I think they only started making them in that size a couple of years ago (and not till after Apple had already stopped making that model of Mac). Even now, they cost at least $400 or so, an expensive proposition when the laptop you want to buy is a used one.

A conventional M.2 SSD in the same capacity (with an adapter) only costs in the $150 range, but that too has its tradeoffs, such as not being able to hibernate the machine. I for one would worry about its reliability.

Many new Monterey features won't work on Intel Macs, including the new OCR stuff and on-device text-to-speech.

I don't think it's cool that they would do this while still selling Intel Macs.

Oh, but it gets worse! Apple Maps on the Intel processors doesn't even have the new 3D buildings (AKA the feature Google Earth has had for over a decade).

Pure lazy coding if you ask me. What they seem to have done here is create code paths that are super-efficient because they use low-level features specific to the new processor type. Coding in a fallback for older processors would have involved re-writing the same code again, and possibly more changes like a lower draw distance or less detail on those machines.

And rather than bother with two separate code paths and testing the result (a move that would have most likely hurt Apple's bottom line), someone just decided: 'Nah. Let's not bother', and that was the end of that.

Although, given what I say below, it's hard not to conclude that the Intel models really are a bit shit. Don't buy them new unless you need them for work.

This would be a good time to go back and research the PPC to Intel transition to get an idea of how fucked the old hardware ends up getting in less than a year.

And make sure you look at both sides of the transition! Because in many ways the first Intel Macs got fucked just as much as the last PowerPC ones. In terms of OS support, the first model of the Macbook Pro only got two OS X upgrades.

Granted, the gaps between OSes were longer back then (every release after 10.7 was yearly), but that's still only 5 and-a-half years of having the latest operating system until 10.7 Lion came out in 2011 (or 5 years in the case of the newer 17-inch model). Late 2006 kinda also got the short straw with no graphics acceleration and no official support. Compare that to Mid 2007, which ran the latest OS for 9 years.

There is of course more to life than running the latest OS, but it's an indicator of quality. I mean, you have to ask yourself why Apple didn't want to release 10.7 and 10.8 for those machines.

The first models released after a chip transition are are almost as bad as you'd get for a first generation product. And first-generation products from Apple tend to be iffy. The first iPhone was crippled, even by the standards of the ones that came shortly after it. The first Apple Watch and the first iPad (which didn't even have cameras) were total shite, all of which had very limited software support. And the first-generation Homepod was dead on arrival.

Oh, and the first Powerbook to be released after the 68000 to PowerPC transition (yes, there were three chip transitions) was apparently one of the worst laptops Apple's ever made.

So while the first release of the Apple Silicon Macbook Air doesn't feel to me like a first generation product, history tells me I'm probably wrong. For now it does run circles around the most powerful Intel Macs to date, but that M1 chip will show its age sooner rather than later.

Perhaps it's for the best that Apple's making us wait. But actually fuck that. I can't stand not knowing what they're going to release. Apple has given us a very dangerous thing for the last year, if not longer, which is hope. Because the next Macbook Pro might just have all the ports we need, storage at a reasonable price, Face ID and no nasty surprises. But I'll feel like such a fool if it's anything like the last two redesigns.

 

[malt ipecac]

Maybe I'm saying this only because I use an Intel-based MacBook, but I'm not particularly concerned by any of the recently-announced M1-exclusive features. I never use dictation or text-to-speech and I don't care about background blurring (if I don't want someone to see my background, I won't turn on my video). The "live text" from photos seems cool and maybe it would be neat to have an improved Maps app...but those seem to me like pretty niche features.

I knew what I was paying for when I bought this computer, and I'm not losing anything when they announce new features I won't be able to use. Of course, if Apple stops releasing OS updates for Intel machines in the near future, that'll be a different story, because I did buy my computer expecting regular security updates, bugfixes, etc.

You can buy an Intel-based Mac today with three years of AppleCare support (i.e., through 2024). I'd therefore say it's reasonable to expect decent support for Intel machines for at least 3 years after the last Intel Mac is sold.

 

[Pinochet Was Right]

The fact that the Mac Pro was released so late in the Intel lifecycle should be reason enough to calm down about Intel Macs and Hackintosh.

 

[Pissmaster]

Should I blame the public for not understanding PPI as a metric? Why are people so hung up on the absolute number of pixels?

because we live in technology hell where total number of pixels is what's always used in marketing, so manufacturers can cheap out on HDR and refresh rates

I'd love to use my old Macbook Pro as a monitor for my Windows desktop but there's just no way to do that, and that really sucks because aging Macbooks and iMacs would be some of the best bang-for-your-buck computer monitors out there