Arming European police - Start bringing guns to a knife fight

[Mason Verger]

As an AmeriCAN, I'm curious as to what euro-kiwis think about equipping your police force with sidearms. In light of the Westminster attack in which an officer lost his life due to only being armed with stern words of compliance, are you for it or do you see it becoming as problematic as police shootings here in the US?

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Policemen should have weapons. That's how it always was until recent times in the Eurocuck Zone and pepper spray and tasers are not a perfect solution or replacement.

I will qualify my statement that policemen should also be paid well and have a good training and selection process. Professional policemen who know how to handle their gun, etc and not doughnut eating ex-jocks who didn't make it big in college football and were too scared to join the Army.

 

[Sailor_Jupiter]

Anyone who's got to regularly deal with dangerous criminals should be packing heat. These are policemen are human, not toys for target practice. Honestly I can't believe that EVEN THE EU is so betacuck that even their POLICEMEN aren't armed! I mean, seriously, WHAT? Every time Europe hits the bottom of the self-destruct pit, they grab a shovel!

 

[Lorento]

As an AmeriCAN, I'm curious as to what euro-kiwis think about equipping your police force with sidearms.

Normal patrolmen? No. People guarding important structures and landmarks, where terrorist attacks are likely to occur? Absolutely.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Normal patrolmen? No. People guarding important structures and landmarks, where terrorist attacks are likely to occur? Absolutely.

Yeah, you know.

Like all those strategically-important objects like nightclubs, bars and metro stations, open-air markets and streets, publishing offices...

Statistically speaking terrorists do NOT attack important structures. They're not trying to assassinate the Queen or bomb the Prime Minister's office. They kill random civilians.

 

[Lorento]

Yeah, you know.

Like all those strategically-important objects like nightclubs, bars and metro stations, open-air markets and streets, publishing offices...

Statistically speaking terrorists do NOT attack important structures. They're not trying to assassinate the Queen or bomb the Prime Minister's office. They kill random civilians.

And how exactly is a policeman armed with a gun supposed to preemptively stop a man from driving down a bridge and killing everyone on it with a car? They can't, unless an armed policeman is on every single street corner. And do we really want to go there? Or a nightclub shooting, unless you put armed police inside the club, people will still die.

The police in America are militarised to shit, and yet shootings still happen, all the fucking time. The solution is to try and stop the shooters/terrorists from being in a position to carry out attacks to begin with.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

And how exactly is a policeman armed with a gun supposed to preemptively stop a man from driving down a bridge and killing everyone on it with a car? They can't, unless an armed policeman is on every single street corner. And do we really want to go there? Or a nightclub shooting, unless you put armed police inside the club, people will still die.

The police in America are militarised to shit, and yet shootings still happen, all the fucking time. The solution is to try and stop the shooters/terrorists from being in a position to carry out attacks to begin with.

It's not a question of pre-emptively stopping, it's a question of being able to stop after 1 victim (potentially before any victims at all) or being totally unable to stop the attacker, who can then massacre an entire cafe or street corner worth of people.

Good luck stopping terrorists from being in a position to carry out attacks. Unfortunately, those of us living in the real world know that this is impossible. You cannot stop people from using household items to commit acts of terrorism.

 

[Mason Verger]

That's the thing, the one officer was friggen stabbed to death while another officer with him had to retreat. Litteraly run away. Imagine being a cop that has to run away while your partner is stabbed? The only thing that stopped the attacker was other armed police.

 

[Lorento]

It's not a question of pre-emptively stopping, it's a question of being able to stop after 1 victim (potentially before any victims at all) or being totally unable to stop the attacker, who can then massacre an entire cafe or street corner worth of people.

Good luck stopping terrorists from being in a position to carry out attacks. Unfortunately, those of us living in the real world know that this is impossible. You cannot stop people from using household items to commit acts of terrorism.

Now that you've edited your statement above, I think we can find some common ground. Certain subsections of the police should be armed, certainly. But I do not think that every constable who patrols somewhere in the Cotswalds should suddenly be given a deadly weapon, just in case an Islam decides to attack the local turnip festival.

 

[Enclave Supremacy]

I for one am perfectly pleased with the UK police remaining routinely unarmed for the meantime. We don't need proliferation of guns in this country, whether in the hands of the police or civilians. They didn't carry guns in the war, they didn't carry guns during the Troubles and they won't carry any now; not because some random Paddy or Ahmed might be a terrorist.

I'm not opposed on principle, but we'd have to be in some dire straights for me to be okay with the police being armed.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

I remember when France was one of the worst places to rob or hold hostages in because their police didn't care for civilian causalities.

 

[Caddchef]

For the sake of accuracy, you guys do realize that virtually all European police services routinely carry sidearms with the exception of the UK and Ireland, right?

The Union of Police Officers actually polled there members on this very question a few years back, the results were that approximately 80% were against the idea of arming the police force, and @Enclave Supremacy said, if they didn't carry during the troubles why would they carry now?

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

But I do not think that every constable who patrols somewhere in the Cotswalds should suddenly be given a deadly weapon

Why not?

 

[Enclave Supremacy]

Why not?

It's not our culture. Guns have never been massive here among people, they are tools for farmers and most people do not like hunting. Britain is not the frontier, there has never been a need for most people to go and hunt their food, no dangerous game, no bandits. There is no historical need for mass ownership/appeal of guns in the British character. What there is has been imported courtesy of American cultural hegemony and, like gangs, weed culture and other dumb shit, should stay there.

Our island status gives us a chance, unlike the continent, of keeping the guns physically out of our country. Cops can be almost certain that, when responding, guns won't be a factor. It's why they don't kill people very often and don't have to treat every scenario as a potentially lethal one. It's better for everyone if guns don't become commonplace unless the need for security becomes that dire, and since the genuine threat of Nazi paratroopers didn't warrant it I don't know what will.

 

[Mason Verger]

As a gun owner, I actually greatly respect a nations unwillingness to mass arm. I've been to countries where I've seen security with sub-machine guns guarding McDonald's, and it certainly didn't make me feel any more secure.

That said, when the world goes shithouse, you guys are going to be crawling with Vikings again..

 

[TowinKarz]

It's up to the actual officers to make that decision, not people like me half-a-globe away with a totally different police culture. FWIW, armed or not, cops always have my utmost respect, and if they say they're fine unarmed, we should respect that.

 

[El Garbage]

Like someone said, the British isles are pretty much the only place in Europe with unarmed police. Where I'm from, every cop carries a gun, and is also trained to use - or not use it. In the last 10 years the entire force has had to kill only about 5 people in a country of 5 million, and 2 officers died on duty.

We're not talking about some feel-good utopia safespaceland either, this is a heavily armed country, and huge amounts of people suffer from alcoholism and mental health issues. We've had school shootings, spree killers and organized crime. The cops are just vetted carefully and trained properly with a 3-year course.

 

[ICametoLurk]

They should all carry RPGs.

 

[DuskEngine]

The goal of terror attacks is to erode public trust and provoke harsher security measures to further alienate a country's populace from its government.

After the Marathon bombings, for like a week afterwards the National Guard were camped out in the Common. When they were hunting Dzokhar in Watertown they also conducted mass warrantless door-to-door searches with heavily armed cops. Whether or not you feel the magnitude of the response was warranted, it definitely kept people on edge for days after the initial incident.

Obviously publicly armed police are a ways away from mass warrantless searches or things like that, but it does feel like a step in that direction.

 

[HG 400]

as problematic as police shootings here in the US

I don't see any problems with police shootings in the US.