Gross Ashley Isaacs - The Lich Queen

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heavycream

My latte tastes like general anaesthetic.
kiwifarms.net
They just see thinner people as "more successful" from what I have been told. Gretchen probably lowkey respects Ashlich. Ashlich in turn probably sees Gretchen as a failure who keeps giving in to such base and uncouth pleasures like nourishment.
Relevant powerlevel: That's actually very likely correct.

I worked for a short time doing work experience at a psychiatric facility. The system there was to keep the patients with eating disorders together as a 'unit', receive group therapy, etc. This particular ward was not observing them as they ate all their meals, and I recall patients began to compete with one another to see who could eat the least breakfast: the only unsupervised meal they got. E.G. one patient would eat only half her slice of toast and tell the others. The following day, another patient would try to one-up her and eat just a third, tell others, and so on. They were all in mutual agreement to compete in it and some patients reported admiring those who managed to get away with eating less.

Needless to say, staff had hoped one patients' recovery would motivate anothers'. Unsurprisingly, the exact opposite happened and they had to change strategy.

Edit: typos
 
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Punkinsplice

My human and I talk shit about you
kiwifarms.net
That is an interesting question.

Any type of "dysmorphia" or "dysphoria" is a symptom of mental illness or I reckon a co-morbidity.

The best analogy I can think of, would be staring at yourself in one of those concave or convex carnival mirrors.

I suppose that at some level we are all gazing at carnival mirrors but the difference is, our own distortions are not grotesquely out of keeping with how reasonable people would perceive us.

A lot of anorexics thought that this image is real. Turns out to have been a hoax. To me it looked odd from the get-go: she is more than thin. Her skeletal proportions are out of range.


So I guess that sort of answers your question. If this is a model that they emulate, they lack insight into the parameters to which the human body conforms.

Therefore I suppose Gretchen COULD see Ashley as a healthy person.

The Wikipedia Pro-Ana page addresses this topic rather thoroughly IMO.
h
Thanks for the link. That photo is serious uncanny valley territory! more disturbing than real-life skellies.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
Relevant powerlevel: That's actually very likely correct.
I worked for a short time doing work experience at a psychiatric facility. The system there was to keep the patients with eating disorders together as a 'unit', receive group therapy, etc. This particular ward was not observing them as they ate their all their meals, and I recall patients began to compete with one another to see who could eat the least breakfast: the only unsupervised meal they got. E.G. one patient would eat only half her slice of toast and tell the others. The following day, another patient would try to one-up her and eat just a third, tell others, and so on. They were all in mutual agreement to compete in it and some patients reported admiring those who managed to get away with eating less.

Needless to say, staff had hoped one patients' recovery would motivate anothers'. Unsurprisingly, the exact opposite happened and they had to change strategy.
Yeah, backfire. So much for the group therapy model.

I suppose that method only works if the participants actually see that their behavior is maladaptive and want to change.

Sort of like group therapy for people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

😆🤣😭
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
It's sometimes actually enraging how terrible people whose specialty is supposedly psychology are at even remotely understanding people.
Good point. A lot of them went into the field because they needed to study it, in order to have the slightest understanding of how people operate.

As a younger person I traveled a lot in Europe and came to have a lot of conversations with bored bus drivers. And here in LA, if you leave your house you will probably trip on a homeless drunk. I worked a lot of crappy jobs in places like supermarkets, department stores, hotels,

At some points in my life I was recommended to see a therapist, and not a single one of them understood people as well as homeless drunks, busdrivers, hair dressers, cashiers, etc. Well, with one exception. But he admitted that there was no need for therapy.

As a matter of fact some of those therapists were so eggregiously bad, that they made me want to throw myself out the window, when I had come to their office in an optimistic mood.

I can chuckle about it now but it really isn't very funny when people are required to talk to these clowns per court order etc.
 

AlexJonesGotMePregnant

he put a baby in my butt
kiwifarms.net
Good point. A lot of them went into the field because they needed to study it, in order to have the slightest understanding of how people operate.

As a younger person I traveled a lot in Europe and came to have a lot of conversations with bored bus drivers. And here in LA, if you leave your house you will probably trip on a homeless drunk. I worked a lot of crappy jobs in places like supermarkets, department stores, hotels,

At some points in my life I was recommended to see a therapist, and not a single one of them understood people as well as homeless drunks, busdrivers, hair dressers, cashiers, etc. Well, with one exception. But he admitted that there was no need for therapy.

As a matter of fact some of those therapists were so eggregiously bad, that they made me want to throw myself out the window, when I had come to their office in an optimistic mood.

I can chuckle about it now but it really isn't very funny when people are required to talk to these clowns per court order etc.
I'm not saying that I disagree but there is a certain humor in someone with the account name "Non-Expert!" promoting the mental health benefits of bus drivers and homeless people over professionally trained therapists.
 

LetThemEatCake

kiwifarms.net
Good point. A lot of them went into the field because they needed to study it, in order to have the slightest understanding of how people operate.

As a younger person I traveled a lot in Europe and came to have a lot of conversations with bored bus drivers. And here in LA, if you leave your house you will probably trip on a homeless drunk. I worked a lot of crappy jobs in places like supermarkets, department stores, hotels,

At some points in my life I was recommended to see a therapist, and not a single one of them understood people as well as homeless drunks, busdrivers, hair dressers, cashiers, etc. Well, with one exception. But he admitted that there was no need for therapy.

As a matter of fact some of those therapists were so eggregiously bad, that they made me want to throw myself out the window, when I had come to their office in an optimistic mood.

I can chuckle about it now but it really isn't very funny when people are required to talk to these clowns per court order etc.
I absolutely believe you on this. One group gained its 'experience' of humanity through the idealistic and often highly politicized lens of academia. The other through daily contact with actual people at their best and worst. Guess which is more instructive?
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
I absolutely believe you on this. One group gained its 'experience' of humanity through the idealistic and often highly politicized lens of academia. The other through daily contact with actual people at their best and worst. Guess which is more instructive?
Although I am well-educated, I have learned the most about what motivates people, through what is jokingly called "The College of 'Ard Knox."

Honestly I have had the most luck capitalizing on the strengths of others. There is ALWAYS something to learn from somebody, no matter how young, old, brilliant, dim-witted, etc.

Formal courses in Psychology train you in how to identify, approach and assess the mental health of others. Then all this therapeutic stuff, models, case studies etc.

During the time you spend with your nose in the books, or in the clinic working exclusively with adolescents who cut themselves, or starve themselves, for example, you aren't "out there" interacting with a wide variety of people, of many walks of life.

But really, keen observation, empathy and experience in social dynamics (that comes over time) does not necessarily require the formal study of the subject. And often I have noticed that psychologists can absolutely misunderstand people, and misidentify their reactions to crappy or bizarre circumstances, as "symptoms."

Another pitfall is applying inappropriate therapeutic methods, mismatched to the client's true needs.

I guess what I am saying, is that as laypeople, we shouldn't be too quick to discredit our basic authority and insights into our experiences, in favor of those of an expert in the field who doesn't know you from Adam ...
 

AlexJonesGotMePregnant

he put a baby in my butt
kiwifarms.net
Although I am well-educated, I have learned the most about what motivates people, through what is jokingly called "The College of 'Ard Knox."

Honestly I have had the most luck capitalizing on the strengths of others. There is ALWAYS something to learn from somebody, no matter how young, old, brilliant, dim-witted, etc.

Formal courses in Psychology train you in how to identify, approach and assess the mental health of others. Then all this therapeutic stuff, models, case studies etc.

During the time you spend with your nose in the books, or in the clinic working exclusively with adolescents who cut themselves, or starve themselves, for example, you aren't "out there" interacting with a wide variety of people, of many walks of life.

But really, keen observation, empathy and experience in social dynamics (that comes over time) does not necessarily require the formal study of the subject. And often I have noticed that psychologists can absolutely misunderstand people, and misidentify their reactions to crappy or bizarre circumstances, as "symptoms."

Another pitfall is applying inappropriate therapeutic methods, mismatched to the client's true needs.

I guess what I am saying, is that as laypeople, we shouldn't be too quick to discredit our basic authority and insights into our experiences, in favor of those of an expert in the field who doesn't know you from Adam ...
what would your homeless therapist say to the lich queen?
 

heavycream

My latte tastes like general anaesthetic.
kiwifarms.net
, you aren't "out there" interacting with a wide variety of people, of many walks of life.
You seem to think that psychology students (or even qualified therapists) never leave their front door.

I agree with you that something can be learnt from everyone. But a good proportion of psychologists wanted to go into the profession because of their experiences interacting with others. Nobody picks up a textbook or two and gets a degree, an APA/BPS accreditation, a postgraduate specification or even a D. Phil in the field of psychology without caring about the real-life relevance of the subject.

I find it a little humorous that you're implying someone like Lich could walk up (or in this case, wheel up) to a bus driver, or a homeless man and expect to have her NPD and eating disorders cured by talking to them. Sure, getting out of her apartment would benefit her, but she's too self-obsessed and everyday people simply don't have the patience to deal with most mental health issues. Even the relatively more 'mild' ones, like anxiety or depression. If there's one thing non-therapists cannot deal with, it's someone who doesn't immediately change their mind.

The reason therapists are trained at all is because the natural human tendency to reciprocate how awful one's own life is in "helping" another person doesn't, infact, help. Neither does inevitably yelling at or dismissing people who have a medical condition when they don't instantly clock the golden advice being given to them. Many people with severe mental health problems are not suddenly receptive to learning the hypothetical philosophies and wisdom of everyday strangers they meet, even if you might be.
 
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Raging Capybara

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You seem to think that psychology students (or even qualified therapists) never leave their front door.

I agree with you that something can be learnt from everyone. But a good proportion of psychologists wanted to go into the profession because of their experiences interacting with others. Nobody picks up a textbook or two and gets a degree, an APA/BPS accreditation, a postgraduate specification or even a D. Phil in the field of psychology without caring about the real-life relevance of the subject.

I find it a little humorous that you're implying someone like Lich could walk up (or in this case, wheel up) to a bus driver, or a homeless man and expect to have her NPD and eating disorders cured by talking to them. Sure, getting out of her apartment would benefit her, but she's too self-obsessed and everyday people simply don't have the patience to deal with most mental health issues. Even the relatively more 'mild' ones, like anxiety or depression. If there's one thing non-therapists cannot deal with, it's someone who doesn't immediately change their mind.

The reason therapists are trained at all is because the natural human tendency to reciprocate how awful one's own life is in "helping" another person doesn't, infact, help. Neither does inevitably yelling at or dismissing people who have a medical condition when they don't instantly clock the golden advice being given to them. Many people with severe mental health problems are not suddenly receptive to learning the hypothetical philosophies and wisdom of everyday strangers they meet, even if you might be.
A non-therapist would just tie the linch down and force-feed her, problem solved. But Reagan happened...
 

heavycream

My latte tastes like general anaesthetic.
kiwifarms.net
Exactly.
The general public's go-to response to anorexics is just "why don't you just eat more"?
Even if talking to people and breaking the ice is useful in overcoming generalised anxiety or social phobia, it will do nothing but hurt someone with an ED.
 

Raging Capybara

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Exactly.
The general public's go-to response to anorexics is just "why don't you just eat more"?
Even if talking to people and breaking the ice is useful in overcoming generalised anxiety or social phobia, it will do nothing but hurt someone with an ED.
I'm not talking about "talking". Just shove food down her throat. This is what the common man would suggest, and they are right.

Talking doesn't work for some people because they are too stupid to comprehend it, just like animals. Trying to rationalize with a narcissist or other cluster B abomination makes as much sense as trying to resocialize cold blood murderers. Waste of everybody's time.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
You seem to think that psychology students (or even qualified therapists) never leave their front door.

I agree with you that something can be learnt from everyone. But a good proportion of psychologists wanted to go into the profession because of their experiences interacting with others. Nobody picks up a textbook or two and gets a degree, an APA/BPS accreditation, a postgraduate specification or even a D. Phil in the field of psychology without caring about the real-life relevance of the subject.

I find it a little humorous that you're implying someone like Lich could walk up (or in this case, wheel up) to a bus driver, or a homeless man and expect to have her NPD and eating disorders cured by talking to them. Sure, getting out of her apartment would benefit her, but she's too self-obsessed and everyday people simply don't have the patience to deal with most mental health issues. Even the relatively more 'mild' ones, like anxiety or depression. If there's one thing non-therapists cannot deal with, it's someone who doesn't immediately change their mind.

The reason therapists are trained at all is because the natural human tendency to reciprocate how awful one's own life is in "helping" another person doesn't, infact, help. Neither does inevitably yelling at or dismissing people who have a medical condition when they don't instantly clock the golden advice being given to them. Many people with severe mental health problems are not suddenly receptive to learning the hypothetical philosophies and wisdom of everyday strangers they meet, even if you might be.
If she actually WANTS help, she could talk to an empty Pepsi can and get something out of it. But that is one of the prime reasons for why people like Ash has a thread here: the sheer willful rejection of any and all help, be it from common sense, or from the hard-core pros.

I really get your point: the man on the street does not have the clinical expertise to read situations through a medical or clinical lens and hit the target like an experienced professional can.

It is well taken.

The field of psychology has actually contributed a lot to the general public's understanding of themselves. A lot of concepts become popularized and become household terms.

Really, I get it.

My only real beef with these folks, is that a lot of them are very arrogant, and shallow in their understanding of others. But like there are bad mechanics, there are bad psychologists.

And psychologists are often put in the crappy position of people being mandated to therapy, and they either don't see the distortions and errors in their own thinking and behavo or, they don't care.

As for treating people like Ashley, frankly nobody has had any luck. Who knows, maybe she could meet the right bartender, hair dresser or cashier and they might have something that she aspires to, and she has the will to change.

And yes I agree. Most people end up on the therapists' couch, due to the trauma that somebody dished out, and they don't have the resources, knowledge or skill to work thru it on their own.
 
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Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
My only real beef with these folks, is that a lot of them are very arrogant, and shallow in their understanding of others. But like there are bad mechanics, there are bad psychologists.
Psychologists, unlike other health professionals, are more likely to get caught up with post-modern and liberal ideas, the same that encourage people to "be themselves" even if you're a flawed, awful individual. Not all psychologists are SJWs but many SJWs are psychologists, and they will tell a patient that they are fine just like they are and that all their problems are because of Drumpf.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
what would your homeless therapist say to the lich queen?
Ok, since you asked ....

First off I am assuming that you mean homeless guy, and NOT an actual mental health pro who has fallen on hard times.

My homeless guy would probably look her in the eye. She would see the cakes of dirt rolled into his deeply weatherbeaten face. He would raise his dirt-streaked calloused hand, and as he reaches over to pat her on the shoulder, she would see scabs from dry skin, insect bites, scabies and a patch of psoriasis. As he moves closer she smells the inevitable consequence of life without regular access to a bath.

He asks her how long she's been on the streets. He asks her if she was thrown out of her relatives homes. He tells her that old ladies like her, are the ones he relates to the most, especially those who have just gone thru cancer treatment or drug rehab.

At this point the Lich realizes that this old homeless guy probably thinks she is a drug-abusing granny.

NOT so good, for somebody who is still in her 20's.

She begins to tell him her story and he tells her that her problems would be solved if she drank a V8 and ate a bagel with some cream cheese on it.

He tells her about how he has seen people die of cold or heat on the streets because they simply couldn't solve the most simple of problems.

Etc etc.
 

Rabbit Bones

He Rapes To Make That Money For His Family
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
what would your homeless therapist say to the lich queen?
"Nigga eat a God damn cheeseburger.."

Most homeless people are mentally ill, alcoholics, or drug addicts. Or all three. Having dealt with a shit load of homeless people over the years, a lot of them are nice people, they've just fallen through the cracks. A lot of them are psycho assholes. They're not deeply insightful fonts of wisdom that we can all learn life lessons from. They're not smelly manic pixie dream girls who are going to fix a cunt with a death wish like Ashley where dozens of snotty educated doctors have failed in the past.

This is the faggiest derail in ages.