Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >TFW DESTROYING YOUR OWN SERIES ONCE JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH AND YOU MAKE A PSA COMIC TELLING PEOPLE WHO WERE INVESTED IN IT TO FUCK OFF (#NO REFUNDS)

How will Eren be stopped?


  • Total voters
    146
  • Poll closed .
I don’t know whether to be annoyed, cuz I expected him to die, or relieved.

Did they at least give that poor man a good woman?
Well, Hanji died, so....no, he doesn’t have a good woman.
And this is 100% like GoT. 1 or 2 good seasons, the rest becomes trash. Eren will always be a virgin with rage, the supreme gentleman, a God of Causality so focused on the pussy he couldn't figure out any other way to try and get it but commit global genocide. And then becomes a bird while he watches the bull prep Mikasa. Eren is a cuck and a simp and a loser.

TATACAW.
Was it ever confirmed Eren was the bird? All we got was Mikasa having her scarf adjusted by the bird, the bird flying away, and Mikasa thanking Eren for wrapping the scarf around her.

lol calm down

1. Paradise exits the rumbling as the strongest nation by virtue of having a relatively unscathed army and population. The entire military force of the world was destroyed by Eren along with untold catastrophic damage to the environmental and infrastructural nations of the world. There may be a lot of humanity left to fight but they aren't in any position to. The survivors are living in fucking camps around the world with no infrastructure or technological advastage. Sure, you may have a couple of places unscathed but they sure as hell aren't ready for some big attack. At worst—Paradis is left with a cold war like scenario where there is a race between if the world can recover fast enough to beat Paradis technological advancement and resource advantage. I mean for fuck's sake—we literally see every last piece of weaponry the world could muster destroyed in the rumbling along with sizable portions of their military forces. What are the remnants of these surely in shambles governments going to do? Put civilians on boats and send them to fight the fuckers who fucked up Marley in a single night worse than any other nations before that point? Even without the Titans the Eldians have access to gear, equipment, and resources that are totally alien and beyond whatever the rest of the world is using. Fuck your strawman.

2. Eren didn't do all of this just for Mikasa—he did it for all of his friends and the people he cared about. Where did you even get the idea he did this all for Mikasa? He clearly tells us why he did this multiple times. Are you upset that Eren was understandably upset that he was about to die without getting to bang his Hapa gf? OH MY FUCKING GOD—A teenage boy is upset that he is going to die a virgin and never see the girl he loves again? Hold the fucking presses. If you're dying and you love someone of course you don't want them to fuck someone else—you love them and the idea of them being with someone else hurts. You'd have to be a cuck to want your galpal to fuck other people after you're gone. Inspite of those selfish feelings, Eren is also still mature enough to not say this to Mikasa and tells her to forget about him anyway because despite what he feels he knows it is the right thing to do and what's best for her. That takes balls. He let Armin beat him up for it too.

3. Paradis is engaged with peace talks with the rest of the world. The survivors at the very least want to hear Paradis' side of the story. Even in the event the world still ends up hating Eldians there is no way to tell who is and who isn't anymore. Eldians have lots of viable ways to survive going forward and are in control of their own destinies. If they fuck around and find out after this then that's on them. The rest of the world thinks Eren was a psychopath who tried to destroy humanity, and they also know it was Eldians who stopped him. There's a lot of wiggle room there for Paradis to either bridge the gap between them and the rest of the world or cut it off entirely. Eren left that up to them.

4. Eren's genocide plan was the best that he could come up with without violating his own moral convictions or hurting the people he cared about. Considering he accomplished everything he set out to do and only people inconsequential to him died (save Sasha rip), things worked out pretty well. He was the necessary evil to get things done. No matter what happened everything was Eren's choice. Ymir chose him because he made the choice to do everything up until that point himself with the limited information he had.

And again, fuck your strawman.

I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that the fucking god of causality couldn't figure out how to get some pussy. Anyway I think the ending would be slightly better if at the point where Armin and Eren have their final conversation, instead of Eren telling Armin he is a virgin with rage, had told him that he decided to become the "devil" so the world would unite against him or something like that, the ending would still have a ton of problems but at least Eren would be someone who gave his life to make (or try to make) a better world instead of a Virgin with rage

That's what he said? He took two panels to lament he didn't get any pussy. Also, he was no God of casuality. He was a slave to it. He realized it when he saved Ramzi. Even after realizing he's going to kill the kid, he still chooses to save him and then realizes that it was always going to end with Ramzi getting rescued. The reason that is, is simply because the visions Eren gets of the future are just things he was going to do anyway.

That moment when ripping off the infamously shitty ending to Code Geass would literally be a better ending than the one we actually got.

This reeks of cope. Pure fucking copium.

1. Fuck my strawman? lol. Ok bro. Eren accomplished nothing. The world will be at war forever now. Good job. He's the most racist racist that ever did a racism. These are also all assumptions. Its now Madagascar vs. the World.

2. This is just pure fucking cope right here. Dude killed his mom to get pussy and basically shouts his motivation at you. Sorry, Eren's a cuck faggot. Look at all the shit he could do and did. But disclose his feelings? Naw bro, too fucking hard. Hahah, takes balls. Jesus christ.

View attachment 2146286

Yeah, a protagonist with balls. This is fucking pathetic. Shinji makes sense because he's a normal kid thrown into a conflict. This is just...pathetic.

3. Uhh....what?

View attachment 2146317

View attachment 2146322

View attachment 2146326
I'm sure this is just a boat of peace.

4. His only plan for....what exactly? He didn't end the racisims, Historia openly admits that the war won't end until one side is utterly annihilated. So...he didn't end the war. He just exacerbated the problem. We don't know how bad he killed the world, but the population of Paradis was reduced to like what, 250k? And whatever those wall titans roflstomped. Going that this is a 1930s alternate history lesson, its about 2 billion in 1927, so we'll go with that. If he killed 80% of that, that still leaves 400 MILLION angry pissed off people against fucking Madagascar. So....he accomplished what? Bringing more misery to the world? Even if the population was a million it doesn't matter. And even that is being generous. Its still a greater amount really fucking angry people and Paradis is no sooner sending armies to fuck up and fight the rest of the world before it can unite against them. So uh, stopping him did nothing and Eren accomplished nothing, because Historia is sending right wing death squads peaceful negotiators to murder 'negotiate' with the rest of the world. I'm sure those racist brain parasites will have subsided and their illogical racism will have faded with an attempted genocide.

So she's just continuing what Eren started....so what was the POINT in stopping him? So much of the manga is rendered utterly pointless.

He didn't end shit. Paradis is in a WORSE position. It now has no walls, no titans and aligned against a pissed off world that loathes its very fucking existence. What exactly was his plan? To...fuck up completely and fail? In no way does his genocide plan make any fucking sense, especially when he can alter the past to have the titans kill his mother and have his father eat the founder. Paradis is going to get ass raped no matter how you look at it. He completely fucked Eldia over.

Oh, and by the by...peace negotiations look REALLY FUCKING BAD when you're building up your armies and have chanting rallies in the street and you're a military fucking junta. Just saying.

"So we're here to begin the peace talks...."

"Why are you producing massive amount of weapons and training large groups of soldiers and have mandatory military conscription?"

"Uh...its a self defense force! These guys totally beat Eren and the genocide!"

"Ok...but then why is your entire population taken over by the genocidal madman's ideology and chanting his slogans in the streets?"

"....NO REASON"

"That makes sense to us, because we're fucking retarded."


Uh, he caused his father to eat the founder and he killed his mother, spurring on the entire conflict. He was no slave to it. He clearly influenced the past to influence his future. He was just fucking horrible at it.

Ymir was also in love with her pedophile rapist and doesn't care at all about Eren.

EDIT:
Even if you make all the assumptions that you do, that Eren had a plan or was a slave to history or whatever, the story is still a 'shaggy dog' story. An overly long story that is ultimately pointless and goes nowhere. A problem and conflict instigated by the protagonist, stopped and then just restarted again. His friends are perfectly ok with Historia killing the rest of the world, but its not OK when Eren does it. The whole thing is fucking idiotic. What, they pussied out because the entire population embraced Eren and now is a fascist dictatorship? 'lol well we tried, hey Reiner, do a Biden and give that Historia letter a big ole sniff lol. we killed eren for the lolz'.

Give me a fucking break. With your way, everyone in the story is retarded. At least in my version, the only retarded loser is fucking Eren.

You can't even fucking read can you?

1. It's not an assumption because we saw it happen. The world got fucking wrecked and what's left of humanity are the scared civilian masses that didn't get stomped by Eren.

2. Eren didn't kill his mom. That was a mistranslation in early fantranslations. It was implied that Ymir sent Dina to eat Carla. I agree with you here that this was pretty dumb and didn't need to exist. However, the story isn't changed by it's addition much. It was Ymir setting Eren on the path he was always going to follow. Whatever—it's a dumb plot thing and we both agree the plot is better without it. Eren confessing his feelings to Mikasa and boning her is absolutely contradictory to the whole "I want you to live on and forget about me". If you know you're going to die, and believe that death is what you deserve for murdering millions of people then why would Eren sleep with her or confess his love for her? It would be incredibly irresponsible of him if he did.
View attachment 2146440
Eren straight up says why he can't be with her and can't express himself, but he also has interests of his own and let's them slip very briefly right before he dies. That's not pathetic, that's a dude spilling his beans to his best friend on his pervurvial death bed.

3&4. If the Eldians fuck it up, they fuck it up. It wasn't Eren's place to decide for his people how they'll interact with the world after he's gone. Symbolically these images are supposed to show the crossroads Eldia is at. Also—you do realize world leaders were invited into Paradis right? There is no formal declaration of war by Eldia; only a faction that wants blood and a faction that doesn't. You're picking and choosing statements and selectively picking information. Even using panels from the fucking fan-translation you can clearly see Historia is sending out negotiators (Armin and the Gang) to meet with the rest of the world, and even inviting them to come to Paradis and meet the people. Even if four hundred million people are still around they are at best reduced to bronze age tech and are mostly frightened civilians who are going to sit in their tents all day for awhile until they have the power to do anything. The most advanced civilization is on close to the other side of the planet and has Eldian negotiators walking through it peacefully and clearly not attacking them. If that isn't another country, Paradis now has fucking airplanes and is advancing at a very accelerated rate. That four hundred million number is pointless when none of them are willing to fight and don't have the weapons or power to do so. For Eldia it will be like fighting cavemen.
View attachment 2146461
View attachment 2146464


Seethe and cope.

Seethe and cope over what, a shitty, rushed, poorly written ending? Or what, someone defending trash writing? I laugh at that, you're the one seething because Eren's a faggot and a terrible character. That the whole story is ultimately pointless and poorly written. That it is laughable that they'd be welcome with open arms after illogically hating them for centuries and all of a sudden when it makes perfectly logical sense to just shoot them in the face, "OH PEACE IS OK, YOU JUST HAVE YOUR RALLIES AND YOUR MILITARY BUILDUP. OH BY THE WAY ITS PERFECTLY OK THAT YOUR MILITARY IS IDEOLOGICALLY ALIGNED WITH THE MAN WHO COMITTED GENOCIDE." Fucking please. Its like defeating the Nazis and then putting the fucking SS in charge of your entire fucking army. What the fuck do you think is going to happen? Why in the ever living fuck should the other side ever trust you? What, do they have terminal retardation now?

This shit is a poor man's Code Geass rip-off and a fucking poorly done one at that. But that's all this manga has ever been good at, rip off other, better works and write them exceedingly poorly. Eren will always be viewed as a bitch made faggot and I'll laugh at that. And the highly contrived, fucking awful attempt at Mikasa and Eren having feelings for each other. Eren's entirely retarded and inexplicable way he went about doing things. Genocide was the only way? Yeah, ok. I'll never fucking believe that. But then again, all important information in this trash is either an exposition dump or a flash back.

The only reason this shitpile ever got popular was it had a decent anime and that's it. Its fucking hysterical and awful. AoT will always be an important work for me, because it just showed how much better Shinji was as a protagonist and helped me understand his motivation more. So thanks AoT, for making Eren a complete little bitch. It made me appreciate Evangelion more.

He made Eren die a virgin too? ☠️
Bruh, Isayama was having a good ole laugh.
Everyone here is bitching over the ending, and I’m here ready to jam the openings Linked Horizon made.
 

Mexican_Wizard_711

kiwifarms.net
Well, Hanji died, so....no, he doesn’t have a good woman.

Was it ever confirmed Eren was the bird? All we got was Mikasa having her scarf adjusted by the bird, the bird flying away, and Mikasa thanking Eren for wrapping the scarf around her.
















Everyone here is bitching over the ending, and I’m here ready to jam the openings Linked Horizon made.
U CALM DOWN FAGGOTS LFXLDEFNMSJTHELNJHNCJKHNVNHGNHNUNEHLNVOSFSFNRSNFS;NFRS;NFRSNSFRNFRSNFSNFSNFSRSFBFBFSBbF'BOOBBS'OBSOBAFOBBOFRSOBUFSRO;USFOBUFSOEFSOBSUFOBSBOSOBSOBSFBOSFBFSBFS;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;SJRNS;RFZIHERSGBSFAI
 

Gar For Archer

kiwifarms.net
Having now read the OP and the highlights, all I can ask is how? How can something lose its way this badly? What happened to the AOT of about the first 50 chapters or so? Was this manga always doomed to go to shit when Grisha revealed that humanity existed beyond the walls once Eren reached the basement?

As I was going through the thread, I came up with an idea: have Paradis be like old Australia and just have it filled with prisoners and exiles and then just dump a bunch of Titans in there and we have the setup of the first arc of wanting to exterminate these Frankenstein’s Monsters of cannibals. And then just have it where the Titans are made to just be mindless to keep the island people from getting too uppity or asking too many questions that hit too close or make any investigations. And instead of Marley vs Paradis, it’s just a way to overthrow the regime that’s behind the Titan program and the likes of Eren and Mikasa and Levi and Hanji and Connie and Sasha can live in some kind of peace. And the Titan thing was probably some generic mad scientist shit, or Josef Mengele if you wanna go Nazi with it.

Probably has the same pitfalls and problems with genre shift as main canon, but I’d like to think this idea is simpler and doesn’t have to deal with pigs, Ymir’s views on love, paths, mind control, or whatever that kept Eren from getting into Mikasa’s pants.

It also seems that AOT looks to be at least hilariously bad. That’s the best kind of bad.
It’s really not that hard. AoT doesn’t even get top prize in this department, that easily goes to The Promised Neverland, which actually shares a similar problem with AoT.

As another user mentioned. The issue is that the author had the twist in mind (the orphanage is a child farm/there are people outside the walls) but didn’t really know what to actually do with the story after the reveal. In AoT it’s somewhat less severe because there’s a pretty logical path from “there’s people outside the walls” to “let’s fight the people outside the walls”, but it’s pretty clear Iseyama didn’t actually have a plan for how that would turn out - he probably went in with his twist in mind and figured that he’d work something out when the time came.

Generally, having a massive twist in the middle of your story that drastically changes the status quo and the protagonist’s motivations is pretty fucking hard to pull off, because once you do the twist, now you have to answer the question... now what? I think FMA is one of the few works that’s able to do it well: the reveal that philosopher’s stones are actually made from people naturally shifts the protagonists’ motivations from “let’s find the philosopher’s stone!” to “let’s uncover the government conspiracy behind the philosopher’s stone!” but in that case the story feels a lot more tightly plotted, so it just generally works a lot better.

For a non-anime example, Bioshock is the biggest fucking offender of this. When people talk about how great this game is, the discussion always stops after the twist, because what is there to even talk about after that? By the time you’ve bashed in Andrew Ryan’s skull with a golf club halfway through the runtime, the game’s already blown its load, everything after is completely uneventful in comparison. It was clear they had no fucking idea what to do AFTER you killed Andrew Ryan, and the second half of the game really suffers for it, feeling kinda arbitrary and directionless and being capped off with a really bad boss battle.
 

Übertroon

Gotta go fast
kiwifarms.net
It’s really not that hard. AoT doesn’t even get top prize in this department, that easily goes to The Promised Neverland, which actually shares a similar problem with AoT.

As another user mentioned. The issue is that the author had the twist in mind (the orphanage is a child farm/there are people outside the walls) but didn’t really know what to actually do with the story after the reveal. In AoT it’s somewhat less severe because there’s a pretty logical path from “there’s people outside the walls” to “let’s fight the people outside the walls”, but it’s pretty clear Iseyama didn’t actually have a plan for how that would turn out - he probably went in with his twist in mind and figured that he’d work something out when the time came.

Generally, having a massive twist in the middle of your story that drastically changes the status quo and the protagonist’s motivations is pretty fucking hard to pull off, because once you do the twist, now you have to answer the question... now what? I think FMA is one of the few works that’s able to do it well: the reveal that philosopher’s stones are actually made from people naturally shifts the protagonists’ motivations from “let’s find the philosopher’s stone!” to “let’s uncover the government conspiracy behind the philosopher’s stone!” but in that case the story feels a lot more tightly plotted, so it just generally works a lot better.

For a non-anime example, Bioshock is the biggest fucking offender of this. When people talk about how great this game is, the discussion always stops after the twist, because what is there to even talk about after that? By the time you’ve bashed in Andrew Ryan’s skull with a golf club halfway through the runtime, the game’s already blown its load, everything after is completely uneventful in comparison. It was clear they had no fucking idea what to do AFTER you killed Andrew Ryan, and the second half of the game really suffers for it, feeling kinda arbitrary and directionless and being capped off with a really bad boss battle.
It's a big issue that the twist happens very late in the story. The basement reveal happens after 7 out of 9 story arcs. 90 out of 139 chapters
Had it been at the half way point then perhaps things wouldn't seem so contrived
 
You can't even fucking read can you?
If you have to say this in response to someone having a different take about some fiction then go do something else, It is on par with "You are just a Nazi" in stupid, braindead, worthless shit one can say on the internet.

Attack on Titan was always shit, stop coping about a show that you like because it had a cool Animu Opening managed to out do Bleach and Naruto in trashfire endings.
 

DicksOutForChauvin

kiwifarms.net
If you have to say this in response to someone having a different take about some fiction then go do something else, It is on par with "You are just a Nazi" in stupid, braindead, worthless shit one can say on the internet.

Attack on Titan was always shit, stop coping about a show that you like because it had a cool Animu Opening managed to Out do Bleach and Naruto in trashfire endings.
No, no. You guys are literally arguing stuff that just did not happen in the ending. I'm asking if you guys can't read because there is no point in discussing things with you guys if you are just going to conjure up a different idea of what happened in the panels. I'm not calling you a Nazi for having an opinion—you're now putting words in my mouth.

If you feel Attack on Titan was always shit then good for fuckin' you! That still doesn't change what actually happened in the ending, and if we're going to argue the merits of the ending that's an important part of discussing it's quality. This isn't fucking Evangelion where shit is left to your interpretation—the fuckers straight up tell you what the fuck happened and you guys still find a way to twist that.

Then you write sperg posts that are just "lol ereh's a fag" and you expect engagement from that? What's going on is you guys clearly have your own little idea of what you want to feel in this echo chamber and now you're trying to stop discussion. Enjoy your tatacaw jokes because it's clear I'm not going to get any intelligent discussion out of this.
 
Last edited:
It's a big issue that the twist happens very late in the story. The basement reveal happens after 7 out of 9 story arcs. 90 out of 139 chapters
Had it been at the half way point then perhaps things wouldn't seem so contrived
You ever feel like that you could rework the story so the story ends after the basement reveal and the Survey Corps reach the ocean?
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
People aren't engaging because we've argued all this ages ago. Mostly people here are just waiting to see how the anime pulls off the shit-pile of an ending. If you want to defend that trash, feel free. But even I'm tired of re-treading this.
You ever feel like that you could rework the story so the story ends after the basement reveal and the Survey Corps reach the ocean?
Its honestly too difficult because there's just far too much that still needs to be explained. Obviously the key is to stick with its horror genre and themes, but it basically just ditches them because Isayama wanted to do something different. Which is fine and all. The problem is that he didn't start another project or do his creative juices elsewhere, he basically just went "lol and now they invented a guillotine, titans all gone" which is horrificly lazy and trash.
It’s really not that hard. AoT doesn’t even get top prize in this department, that easily goes to The Promised Neverland, which actually shares a similar problem with AoT.

As another user mentioned. The issue is that the author had the twist in mind (the orphanage is a child farm/there are people outside the walls) but didn’t really know what to actually do with the story after the reveal. In AoT it’s somewhat less severe because there’s a pretty logical path from “there’s people outside the walls” to “let’s fight the people outside the walls”, but it’s pretty clear Iseyama didn’t actually have a plan for how that would turn out - he probably went in with his twist in mind and figured that he’d work something out when the time came.

Generally, having a massive twist in the middle of your story that drastically changes the status quo and the protagonist’s motivations is pretty fucking hard to pull off, because once you do the twist, now you have to answer the question... now what? I think FMA is one of the few works that’s able to do it well: the reveal that philosopher’s stones are actually made from people naturally shifts the protagonists’ motivations from “let’s find the philosopher’s stone!” to “let’s uncover the government conspiracy behind the philosopher’s stone!” but in that case the story feels a lot more tightly plotted, so it just generally works a lot better.

For a non-anime example, Bioshock is the biggest fucking offender of this. When people talk about how great this game is, the discussion always stops after the twist, because what is there to even talk about after that? By the time you’ve bashed in Andrew Ryan’s skull with a golf club halfway through the runtime, the game’s already blown its load, everything after is completely uneventful in comparison. It was clear they had no fucking idea what to do AFTER you killed Andrew Ryan, and the second half of the game really suffers for it, feeling kinda arbitrary and directionless and being capped off with a really bad boss battle.
It is a gigantic problem, and its not even half-way through. Its chapter 90 out of 139 which is fucking awful, its more than half-way, its two-thirds through the entire run (about 65%) and it drastically reverses itself. Which is beyond stupid. Then it becomes an incredible reliance on shit techniques such as time-skips, flash backs and just mystery box after mystery box until the whole thing just collapses in on itself when its forced to answer questions. Oh, he had no plan for the basement, which is why he dragged it out for 90 chapters. My guess is that it was in the treatment as a half-heart McGuffin and he completely forgot to flesh it out. So he just waited until he got bored with his horror story and just replaced it with his alternative history bullshit.

Eren's motivation is trash because its shrouded in mystery as to why he had to kill everyone. This still isn't explained. Why wasn't there another way? Eren said so. That's...really it. There's no real defining motivation for him to stomp the world, which is why this emptiness gets pointed out as a virgin with rage, because it is the ONLY expressed, clear, unambiguous motivation for Eren. Ymir doesn't show him that nothing else works, we don't see whatever Eren sees usually. So, why? 'The only way' is entirely unconvincing. With all this power at your disposal, you need a REAL reason for this. So without one, people are going to point to virgin with rage. Because that's the only clear thing Eren expresses in the last third of the story. Not to mention there's that 'hallucination' which, if you take at face value, basically says if Mikasa jumped on Eren's cock he would have given everything up, which is again, hysterical. So if you trust all these things at face value, Eren's motivation was literally a virgin with rage. Because there are no other satisfactory explanations other than "It was the only way" for which we get NO explanation of, and no explicit reason to believe Eren. Who himself could be under the influence of something, so we have no real reason to believe him anyway.

Ymir apparently was a child slave who loved her pedophile rapist, which is a whole other level of retarded to explain why she just left. That's....that's her entire motivation? To witness Mikasa killing her adoptive brother when they both want to bone in order to uh, free her from this? Its idiotic and creepy as fuck.

Not to mention some....worm that comes out of nowhere to conveniently serve as Eren's weak point and vanishes as soon as it appears.

The story only works when it forced people to start guessing and hinting about shit, but then just promptly throws everything out when its forced to answer the questions it posed.
 
Was the motivation aspect of Eren always doomed to go to shit because he did what he did for a girl, even if you get rid of the paths and the pigs and the mind control just so you could have it be “eliminate Titans to live a peaceful life”? Especially since at least Chapter 50 Mikasa made so many signals that she’s be down for some “I’m not sure how long we got, so let’s have some ‘this could be our last time together, so let’s spend this one night right here in this moment at this place on this planet’” sex.
 

Gar For Archer

kiwifarms.net
My pitch for the basement reveal? Yes, there’s people outside the walls. Yes, there’s a Kingdom of Marley... that existed like hundreds of years ago, until it was stomped into the ground by the Titans, along with the rest of the world who didn’t have magic titan walls to protect them. Paradis literally IS the last bastion of humanity, and now the remnants of civilization outside the walls are trying to destroy it, either out of vengeance or out of the misguided hope that once Paradis falls, the titan menace will end.

The racism shit? That happened far, far in the past. The other nations of the world were afraid of the Eldians due to their titan powers, so they were slaughtered and rounded up for containment on Paradis. However, their king (or more likely, the new inheritor of the Founding Titan after their king was executed) retaliates by unleashing the titan menace on the world and walling up Paradis. Over the centuries, the history has been lost or covered up, and soon all anyone knows is life with the Titans.

After finding out about the world outside the walls, Eren would still be motivated by revenge on the Marleyan remnant. After all, far in the past, the other nations were the aggressors - and now they’re attacking yet again, and Eren’s mom died because of it. However, his methods would become more and more extreme, and our inability to really understand his motivations would be the POINT: he’s literally not making sense anymore because he’s blinded by rage and vengeance.

After an incident where he slaughters some of his friends for getting in the way of his plans for genocide, he finally gets a better perspective on what he’s been doing, and chooses to sacrifice himself to take out all the Titans. You can tie Ymir into all of this somehow to explain HOW this happens. The specifics aren’t that important, the main point is that Eren does something unforgivable that pushes him over the edge to seeing that violence only begets more violence, and that at his current trajectory the only possible ending is with EVERYONE dead.

Now, the story would end with the Titans gone for good and the rest of the world in a better place than before, which actually paves the way for a potentially upbeat resolution.

There’s still plenty of holes in this because I haven’t thought it through completely, but it at least justifies the rest of the world’s hatred toward Paradis as the source of the ongoing apocalypse, and creates an end state that is actually ambiguous yet hopeful, with the titan menace gone and everyone willing to start looking past their prejudice and disagreement to rebuild the world together.
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Was the motivation aspect of Eren always doomed to go to shit because he did what he did for a girl, even if you get rid of the paths and the pigs and the mind control just so you could have it be “eliminate Titans to live a peaceful life”? Especially since at least Chapter 50 Mikasa made so many signals that she’s be down for some “I’m not sure how long we got, so let’s have some ‘this could be our last time together, so let’s spend this one night right here in this moment at this place on this planet’” sex.
The problem was there was some sort of idea for Eren's motivation, because way back when he was mind-fucking Grisha he talked about the future and said he saw something 'beautiful' when he was interacting with Zeke. Its always alluded that there is some big reason as to why Eren is doing the things that he's doing. Which by their very nature, even in regards to the scenario, are extreme. But we're never given anything more.

The motivation aspect was doomed to go to shit, because like with Historia, Isayama waited until the very absolute last second to produce something, ANYTHING for Eren's reasons as to what he'd done. But there's really just...nothing. And that's the problem and which is why its shit writing. There's nothing explicitly there as to why genocide, the most extreme solution, is taken at face value. Isayama is full of shit when he's 'shocked' that people thought he wasn't writing a black and white story. He knew what he was doing, whatever he had planned, its obvious he pussied out.

So you have all this foreshadowing, all of these clues. Eren isn't crazy, he knows genocide is wrong. But he doesn't explain WHY he's doing the most extreme solution and not looking for other ways. We NEVER see what he sees. Its always teased, but then it just never pays off.

So in a way, it was always doomed. Because we were never spoon-fed any information. We don't even get anything but hints. The shitty 'Lelouch Imma be a villainy to be a hero' is a last minute excuse which is NEVER hinted at. Not to mention the plan itself is fucking retarded with so many unknowns. What happened if everyone was just on board with your global genocide? What happens if it fucks up and instead unites a continent against you for all time? What happens if the rumbling, by destroying all those walls, murders a ton of paradis civilians and fucks the island over completely? Why is an incredibly risky gamble where so much of it is out of your hands the ONLY thing that works? So no shit people are going to overlook this trash motivation which was never hinted at, revealed in two panels in a 139+ chapter manga at hundreds upon hundreds of pages and are going to go with virgin with rage because that's the only thing that remotely makes any sense and is supported by previous reveals.

It sort of reminds me of Invincible with Omni-Man where you're hoping against hope that after he murders those heroes he has a good reason to do so. And it turns out....nope, he really did not. The problem was this was foreshadowed, directly SHOWN to us and made completely unambiguous. Its like the old-school show. 'The Shield' where the main character murders a cop in cold blood in the first episode. We're privy to this information. But here, we get no information. So the 'reveal', which is basically copied from another series, makes no sense in this one, and is a hated ending trope, is used extremely lazily.

These gambits rely exclusively on the behavior of other people when you're dead, which is why they're so fucking retarded. Literally anything would be better, because you have 0 control over the outcome. The Lelouch bullshit only works if you fake your death to make sure things work out in your favor, but the problem with this is, you're basically just a villain at that point, which is ok. But nobody really has the balls to do that.

Eren does his whole faggot "No one would forgive me so I may as well just fucking die" routine. And this in a manga where Jean forgives Reiner for destroying the gate and murdering hundreds upon thousands of his people, and sentencing others to starve to death. Not to mention it isn't like Mikasa wouldn't want to ride that D.

Then about the founder Ymir. The whole thing is so fucking stupid even after all this time. Its just hilariously bad.
My pitch for the basement reveal? Yes, there’s people outside the walls. Yes, there’s a Kingdom of Marley... that existed like hundreds of years ago, until it was stomped into the ground by the Titans, along with the rest of the world who didn’t have magic titan walls to protect them. Paradis literally IS the last bastion of humanity, and now the remnants of civilization outside the walls are trying to destroy it, either out of vengeance or out of the misguided hope that once Paradis falls, the titan menace will end.

The racism shit? That happened far, far in the past. The other nations of the world were afraid of the Eldians due to their titan powers, so they were slaughtered and rounded up for containment on Paradis. However, their king (or more likely, the new inheritor of the Founding Titan after their king was executed) retaliates by unleashing the titan menace on the world and walling up Paradis. Over the centuries, the history has been lost or covered up, and soon all anyone knows is life with the Titans.

After finding out about the world outside the walls, Eren would still be motivated by revenge on the Marleyan remnant. After all, far in the past, the other nations were the aggressors - and now they’re attacking yet again, and Eren’s mom died because of it. However, his methods would become more and more extreme, and our inability to really understand his motivations would be the POINT: he’s literally not making sense anymore because he’s blinded by rage and vengeance.

After an incident where he slaughters some of his friends for getting in the way of his plans for genocide, he finally gets a better perspective on what he’s been doing, and chooses to sacrifice himself to take out all the Titans. You can tie Ymir into all of this somehow to explain HOW this happens. The specifics aren’t that important, the main point is that Eren does something unforgivable that pushes him over the edge to seeing that violence only begets more violence, and that at his current trajectory the only possible ending is with EVERYONE dead.

Now, the story would end with the Titans gone for good and the rest of the world in a better place than before, which actually paves the way for a potentially upbeat resolution.

There’s still plenty of holes in this because I haven’t thought it through completely, but it at least justifies the rest of the world’s hatred toward Paradis as the source of the ongoing apocalypse, and creates an end state that is actually ambiguous yet hopeful, with the titan menace gone and everyone willing to start looking past their prejudice and disagreement to rebuild the world together.
Better than what we got.
 

Gar For Archer

kiwifarms.net
The problem was there was some sort of idea for Eren's motivation, because way back when he was mind-fucking Grisha he talked about the future and said he saw something 'beautiful' when he was interacting with Zeke. Its always alluded that there is some big reason as to why Eren is doing the things that he's doing. Which by their very nature, even in regards to the scenario, are extreme. But we're never given anything more.

The motivation aspect was doomed to go to shit, because like with Historia, Isayama waited until the very absolute last second to produce something, ANYTHING for Eren's reasons as to what he'd done. But there's really just...nothing. And that's the problem and which is why its shit writing. There's nothing explicitly there as to why genocide, the most extreme solution, is taken at face value. Isayama is full of shit when he's 'shocked' that people thought he wasn't writing a black and white story. He knew what he was doing, whatever he had planned, its obvious he pussied out.

So you have all this foreshadowing, all of these clues. Eren isn't crazy, he knows genocide is wrong. But he doesn't explain WHY he's doing the most extreme solution and not looking for other ways. We NEVER see what he sees. Its always teased, but then it just never pays off.

So in a way, it was always doomed. Because we were never spoon-fed any information. We don't even get anything but hints. The shitty 'Lelouch Imma be a villainy to be a hero' is a last minute excuse which is NEVER hinted at. Not to mention the plan itself is fucking retarded with so many unknowns. What happened if everyone was just on board with your global genocide? What happens if it fucks up and instead unites a continent against you for all time? What happens if the rumbling, by destroying all those walls, murders a ton of paradis civilians and fucks the island over completely? Why is an incredibly risky gamble where so much of it is out of your hands the ONLY thing that works? So no shit people are going to overlook this trash motivation which was never hinted at, revealed in two panels in a 139+ chapter manga at hundreds upon hundreds of pages and are going to go with virgin with rage because that's the only thing that remotely makes any sense and is supported by previous reveals.

It sort of reminds me of Invincible with Omni-Man where you're hoping against hope that after he murders those heroes he has a good reason to do so. And it turns out....nope, he really did not. The problem was this was foreshadowed, directly SHOWN to us and made completely unambiguous. Its like the old-school show. 'The Shield' where the main character murders a cop in cold blood in the first episode. We're privy to this information. But here, we get no information. So the 'reveal', which is basically copied from another series, makes no sense in this one, and is a hated ending trope, is used extremely lazily.

These gambits rely exclusively on the behavior of other people when you're dead, which is why they're so fucking retarded. Literally anything would be better, because you have 0 control over the outcome. The Lelouch bullshit only works if you fake your death to make sure things work out in your favor, but the problem with this is, you're basically just a villain at that point, which is ok. But nobody really has the balls to do that.

Eren does his whole faggot "No one would forgive me so I may as well just fucking die" routine. And this in a manga where Jean forgives Reiner for destroying the gate and murdering hundreds upon thousands of his people, and sentencing others to starve to death. Not to mention it isn't like Mikasa wouldn't want to ride that D.

Then about the founder Ymir. The whole thing is so fucking stupid even after all this time. Its just hilariously bad.

Better than what we got.
That’s why I’m saying just make him a straight up violent, traumatized psychopath who was failed by his superiors and failed by his friends, who all failed to see the very obvious signs that he was mentally unwell. Hell, just turn him into a subversion of the typical hot-headed shonen protagonist. Write it so that his superiors care only about his utility as a human weapon - his value to them begins and ends at his ability to turn into a Titan, and when those abilities not needed he’s treated as an extreme liability who cannot be trusted, despite him showing unwavering loyalty to the cause. Write it so that someone (Hange maybe) raises some concerns about Eren being more needlessly brutal with his kills, which gets brushed off because the superiors crunched the numbers and decided this makes him a more effective weapon. Write it so he feels alienated from the other scouts, who are still fearful of him even though they know he’s on their side. Write it so that this behavior causes him to distance himself from Armin and Mikasa, who would be shown to be the only people who wholly trust in him.

At that point his motivations no longer HAVE to make sense, because them not making sense would be the entire point: he’s a fucking crazy person who truly believes that genocide is the only option and gives up everything to achieve that goal, we’re not SUPPOSED to be convinced by his arguments anymore.

He shouldn’t be portrayed as a tragic hero with a secret plan to save the world, he should be portrayed as a tragic figure whose actions were an inevitable result of everyone around him treating him like a mentally unstable human weapon, which eventually turns him INTO a mentally unstable human weapon for whom violence is the solution to every problem.
 
You know, I just wanna say I absolutely fucking hate how this series makes people write novel length responses to this thread. Yeah, I know I've done the exact same thing, and I'm pissed that I did so.

It's just not worth it.
If the fun is gone, you could just delete the thread.


My pitch for the basement reveal? Yes, there’s people outside the walls. Yes, there’s a Kingdom of Marley... that existed like hundreds of years ago, until it was stomped into the ground by the Titans, along with the rest of the world who didn’t have magic titan walls to protect them. Paradis literally IS the last bastion of humanity, and now the remnants of civilization outside the walls are trying to destroy it, either out of vengeance or out of the misguided hope that once Paradis falls, the titan menace will end.

The racism shit? That happened far, far in the past. The other nations of the world were afraid of the Eldians due to their titan powers, so they were slaughtered and rounded up for containment on Paradis. However, their king (or more likely, the new inheritor of the Founding Titan after their king was executed) retaliates by unleashing the titan menace on the world and walling up Paradis. Over the centuries, the history has been lost or covered up, and soon all anyone knows is life with the Titans.

After finding out about the world outside the walls, Eren would still be motivated by revenge on the Marleyan remnant. After all, far in the past, the other nations were the aggressors - and now they’re attacking yet again, and Eren’s mom died because of it. However, his methods would become more and more extreme, and our inability to really understand his motivations would be the POINT: he’s literally not making sense anymore because he’s blinded by rage and vengeance.

After an incident where he slaughters some of his friends for getting in the way of his plans for genocide, he finally gets a better perspective on what he’s been doing, and chooses to sacrifice himself to take out all the Titans. You can tie Ymir into all of this somehow to explain HOW this happens. The specifics aren’t that important, the main point is that Eren does something unforgivable that pushes him over the edge to seeing that violence only begets more violence, and that at his current trajectory the only possible ending is with EVERYONE dead.

Now, the story would end with the Titans gone for good and the rest of the world in a better place than before, which actually paves the way for a potentially upbeat resolution.

There’s still plenty of holes in this because I haven’t thought it through completely, but it at least justifies the rest of the world’s hatred toward Paradis as the source of the ongoing apocalypse, and creates an end state that is actually ambiguous yet hopeful, with the titan menace gone and everyone willing to start looking past their prejudice and disagreement to rebuild the world together.

The problem was there was some sort of idea for Eren's motivation, because way back when he was mind-fucking Grisha he talked about the future and said he saw something 'beautiful' when he was interacting with Zeke. Its always alluded that there is some big reason as to why Eren is doing the things that he's doing. Which by their very nature, even in regards to the scenario, are extreme. But we're never given anything more.

The motivation aspect was doomed to go to shit, because like with Historia, Isayama waited until the very absolute last second to produce something, ANYTHING for Eren's reasons as to what he'd done. But there's really just...nothing. And that's the problem and which is why its shit writing. There's nothing explicitly there as to why genocide, the most extreme solution, is taken at face value. Isayama is full of shit when he's 'shocked' that people thought he wasn't writing a black and white story. He knew what he was doing, whatever he had planned, its obvious he pussied out.

So you have all this foreshadowing, all of these clues. Eren isn't crazy, he knows genocide is wrong. But he doesn't explain WHY he's doing the most extreme solution and not looking for other ways. We NEVER see what he sees. Its always teased, but then it just never pays off.

So in a way, it was always doomed. Because we were never spoon-fed any information. We don't even get anything but hints. The shitty 'Lelouch Imma be a villainy to be a hero' is a last minute excuse which is NEVER hinted at. Not to mention the plan itself is fucking retarded with so many unknowns. What happened if everyone was just on board with your global genocide? What happens if it fucks up and instead unites a continent against you for all time? What happens if the rumbling, by destroying all those walls, murders a ton of paradis civilians and fucks the island over completely? Why is an incredibly risky gamble where so much of it is out of your hands the ONLY thing that works? So no shit people are going to overlook this trash motivation which was never hinted at, revealed in two panels in a 139+ chapter manga at hundreds upon hundreds of pages and are going to go with virgin with rage because that's the only thing that remotely makes any sense and is supported by previous reveals.

It sort of reminds me of Invincible with Omni-Man where you're hoping against hope that after he murders those heroes he has a good reason to do so. And it turns out....nope, he really did not. The problem was this was foreshadowed, directly SHOWN to us and made completely unambiguous. Its like the old-school show. 'The Shield' where the main character murders a cop in cold blood in the first episode. We're privy to this information. But here, we get no information. So the 'reveal', which is basically copied from another series, makes no sense in this one, and is a hated ending trope, is used extremely lazily.

These gambits rely exclusively on the behavior of other people when you're dead, which is why they're so fucking retarded. Literally anything would be better, because you have 0 control over the outcome. The Lelouch bullshit only works if you fake your death to make sure things work out in your favor, but the problem with this is, you're basically just a villain at that point, which is ok. But nobody really has the balls to do that.

Eren does his whole faggot "No one would forgive me so I may as well just fucking die" routine. And this in a manga where Jean forgives Reiner for destroying the gate and murdering hundreds upon thousands of his people, and sentencing others to starve to death. Not to mention it isn't like Mikasa wouldn't want to ride that D.

Then about the founder Ymir. The whole thing is so fucking stupid even after all this time. Its just hilariously bad.

Better than what we got.

That’s why I’m saying just make him a straight up violent, traumatized psychopath who was failed by his superiors and failed by his friends, who all failed to see the very obvious signs that he was mentally unwell. Hell, just turn him into a subversion of the typical hot-headed shonen protagonist. Write it so that his superiors care only about his utility as a human weapon - his value to them begins and ends at his ability to turn into a Titan, and when those abilities not needed he’s treated as an extreme liability who cannot be trusted, despite him showing unwavering loyalty to the cause. Write it so that someone (Hange maybe) raises some concerns about Eren being more needlessly brutal with his kills, which gets brushed off because the superiors crunched the numbers and decided this makes him a more effective weapon. Write it so he feels alienated from the other scouts, who are still fearful of him even though they know he’s on their side. Write it so that this behavior causes him to distance himself from Armin and Mikasa, who would be shown to be the only people who wholly trust in him.

At that point his motivations no longer HAVE to make sense, because them not making sense would be the entire point: he’s a fucking crazy person who truly believes that genocide is the only option and gives up everything to achieve that goal, we’re not SUPPOSED to be convinced by his arguments anymore.

He shouldn’t be portrayed as a tragic hero with a secret plan to save the world, he should be portrayed as a tragic figure whose actions were an inevitable result of everyone around him treating him like a mentally unstable human weapon, which eventually turns him INTO a mentally unstable human weapon for whom violence is the solution to every problem.
So what I’m hearing is that the problem is Eren has no clear motivations except for Mikasa which he revealed at the last moment possible. Is that right? I can understand the concept of “blinded by rage to the point where nobody can understand him”, then changing course out of guilt. I guess everything after the basement just went about in the wrong way at every moment.

Also, the thing about Mikasa is that it’s probably that pretty much every shonen title just waits until the last moments possible probably because the main shonen demographic of 13 year old Japanese boys aren’t interested in that shit and/or the creators can’t or don’t want to show that aspect of romance....or characters wanting to jump on some bones. Think about all the ships and “hey, I’m up for wax with you whenever” and whatnot that either don’t come to pass, or are held off until the last moments for whatever reason: Naruto and Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura from Naruto. Ichigo and Orihime from Bleach. Ed and Winry in FullMetal Alchemist. All the ships from Fairy Tail. Misa only having eyes for Light Yagami in Death Note. That’s off the top of my head, but I’m sure the list goes on. Even if the Eren and Mikasa aspect was poorly done and/or punted to the end, what isn’t in Shonen?
 

6MillionCoofs

kiwifarms.net
Just a small correction-he's in a wheelchair, but doesn't seem to actually be crippled because he's seen moving his legs.

Or he actually is crippled, and Yams just couldn't keep himself from fucking up his own art, even for the final chapter of his story.
I'm in a chair, you can have movement despite being crippled.
 

Trombonista

The Largest Water Park in the UNIVERSE!!!
Global Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Found this on pixiv:
sashareturns.jpg
 

R.A.E.L.

Blind spider waifu
kiwifarms.net
Also, the thing about Mikasa is that it’s probably that pretty much every shonen title just waits until the last moments possible probably because the main shonen demographic of 13 year old Japanese boys aren’t interested in that shit and/or the creators can’t or don’t want to show that aspect of romance....or characters wanting to jump on some bones. Think about all the ships and “hey, I’m up for wax with you whenever” and whatnot that either don’t come to pass, or are held off until the last moments for whatever reason: Naruto and Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura from Naruto. Ichigo and Orihime from Bleach. Ed and Winry in FullMetal Alchemist. All the ships from Fairy Tail. Misa only having eyes for Light Yagami in Death Note. That’s off the top of my head, but I’m sure the list goes on. Even if the Eren and Mikasa aspect was poorly done and/or punted to the end, what isn’t in Shonen?
I still don't understand why shounen mangaka feel the need to include romance when 99.9% of the time it's done horribly, case in point. Who are they looking to please, the shippers? Their target audience certainly doesn't give a fuck.

When the majority of your readers didn't see this shoehorned shit coming, you know that's a bad sign.
 

Similar threads

L
Originally titled "Rick and Morty writer Jessica Gao, who wrote Pickle Rick, leaves show"
Replies
81
Views
14K
Eventually With Less Bob's Burgers and Family Guy
Replies
613
Views
65K
Top