Man, I’ve heard some weird ass stories about Riverdale. Serial killers and magic cults and gay correction church...I think Archie gets mauled by a bear at one point and Jughead is a gang leader...
Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >TFW DESTROYING YOUR OWN SERIES ONCE JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH AND YOU MAKE A PSA COMIC TELLING PEOPLE WHO WERE INVESTED IN IT TO FUCK OFF (#NO REFUNDS)
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Secret Asshole
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Haha. yeah. The basement chapter was huge faggotry and Isayama either trolling his audience or actually having no idea what the fuck is in the basement after all this time and fucking around for another few months to try and figure out what the fuck to put down there.
It seems like it is. I mean, if you think about how he did the basement reveal, he delayed that shit and 'teased' it, but I think he genuinely had no idea where he was fucking going. So he had all this pressure on him since for YEARS people wanted to know what was in that fucking basement. He then smoked mushrooms and watched a Hitler documentary and then binged Game of Thrones and that's what we got.
Now that you mention it, I'm not sure really what Isayama could've put of down there, and have had it still make sense without completely breaking his entire story. The only things I can think are either a cure, or just proof of life outside the Walls. He ultimately decided to go with the latter, but we all know how that turned out.
Looking back on it, I'm not even sure what I thought was going to be in it. I know what I jokingly wanted it to be, (a giant mech, literally nothing, a never-ending staircase, the gay nightclub from Free!) but to be honest, I never really thought about it seriously. I cared more about actually getting to the damn thing then what was actually going to be in it.
What did you guys think was going to be down there?
Secret Asshole
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That's the problem with making a big-ass mystery central to your story. You gotta fucking solve that shit.
So here's what you have to do. Because your story is only a third of the way in, you have to keep enticing your readers. The basement can't provide all the answers. So what is in the basement is this: The Titans are a creation of an ancient civilization who grew so advanced, beyond anything in the world. Think Atlantis. However, their last obstacle was death, which they could never conquer. In order to conquer death, they found a way. Through manipulation of the human form, they were able to become titans. Immortal, gigantic beings. However, these titans were only mindless beasts, devouring humans. Even the ancient civilization didn't know why, and was nearly destroyed.
Until they found the Titans were eating humans instinctual, not out of mindless hunger. Those with certain blood-lines were able to become Titan shifters, both human and Titan. The titans were unconsciously trying to be human again by devouring people. This ancient civilization began to perfect this method until the entirety of them became sentient monstrosities, never being able to become human again, but more powerful than Titan shifters.
This ancient civilization destroyed the world, until one compassionate Titan shifter used his abilities to create the walls to defend the last of humanity. This will eventually be Eren's attack Titan, the most powerful Titan Shifter. Though since he's young and doesn't have the tech, he can't totally control because he doesn't know the truth. We think humanity has been in the walls for a few centuries, but its been 2,000 years. The formerly-human, now sentient titans were content to let the remnants of humanity just live in the walls forever. They just didn't have the power to exit. The reason why nobody knew this was a very human reason: only the royalty held onto this secret knowledge. They didn't want the people to rebel against the 'others', the immortal Empire, so they kept them in the dark and it was a mystery.
However, like all good stories, the civilization that sought to become immortal was fatally flawed. They all became monstrous titans, but they could no longer reproduce, since Titans have no reproductive organs. And they still could be killed by each other. The civilization had numerous civil wars and struggles for power and realized their numbers were dwindling. They realized the only way to become immortal was Titan shifters. The same rules apply. If a titan, even a monstrous one, becomes a Titan shifter, they can revert back to human form. And the titan shifter ability goes along with their children, in addition to that, they keep their immortality because of their previous editing.
So the Titan shifters in the manga are actually tragic figures, being forced to do this by literal monsters. The Titans from the ancient civilization would be truly horrifying beings, and their desire to wipe out the last of humanity comes from their own selfish desire to transcend their own immortality. Then you have the knowledge that every Titan you fight and kill was a human being, turned into this by cruel, evil monsters. Each Titan you kill, is technically an innocent. And the horror comes from, no matter what you do, this world is cruel.
So here's what you have to do. Because your story is only a third of the way in, you have to keep enticing your readers. The basement can't provide all the answers. So what is in the basement is this: The Titans are a creation of an ancient civilization who grew so advanced, beyond anything in the world. Think Atlantis. However, their last obstacle was death, which they could never conquer. In order to conquer death, they found a way. Through manipulation of the human form, they were able to become titans. Immortal, gigantic beings. However, these titans were only mindless beasts, devouring humans. Even the ancient civilization didn't know why, and was nearly destroyed.
Until they found the Titans were eating humans instinctual, not out of mindless hunger. Those with certain blood-lines were able to become Titan shifters, both human and Titan. The titans were unconsciously trying to be human again by devouring people. This ancient civilization began to perfect this method until the entirety of them became sentient monstrosities, never being able to become human again, but more powerful than Titan shifters.
This ancient civilization destroyed the world, until one compassionate Titan shifter used his abilities to create the walls to defend the last of humanity. This will eventually be Eren's attack Titan, the most powerful Titan Shifter. Though since he's young and doesn't have the tech, he can't totally control because he doesn't know the truth. We think humanity has been in the walls for a few centuries, but its been 2,000 years. The formerly-human, now sentient titans were content to let the remnants of humanity just live in the walls forever. They just didn't have the power to exit. The reason why nobody knew this was a very human reason: only the royalty held onto this secret knowledge. They didn't want the people to rebel against the 'others', the immortal Empire, so they kept them in the dark and it was a mystery.
However, like all good stories, the civilization that sought to become immortal was fatally flawed. They all became monstrous titans, but they could no longer reproduce, since Titans have no reproductive organs. And they still could be killed by each other. The civilization had numerous civil wars and struggles for power and realized their numbers were dwindling. They realized the only way to become immortal was Titan shifters. The same rules apply. If a titan, even a monstrous one, becomes a Titan shifter, they can revert back to human form. And the titan shifter ability goes along with their children, in addition to that, they keep their immortality because of their previous editing.
So the Titan shifters in the manga are actually tragic figures, being forced to do this by literal monsters. The Titans from the ancient civilization would be truly horrifying beings, and their desire to wipe out the last of humanity comes from their own selfish desire to transcend their own immortality. Then you have the knowledge that every Titan you fight and kill was a human being, turned into this by cruel, evil monsters. Each Titan you kill, is technically an innocent. And the horror comes from, no matter what you do, this world is cruel.
The moment that Marley was introduced into the story, I just started to lose interest in the story. Because I felt like it just obliterated the magic and concept AoT had. Now there's shit about Eren being bad, and all sorts of family line bullshit going on.
I can't think of a better way of how the world outside the walls could have been introduced, but I feel like Marley was just a bland choice to go from.
I can't think of a better way of how the world outside the walls could have been introduced, but I feel like Marley was just a bland choice to go from.
Oh my God the basement just being an empty room would of been the funniest shit ever. Better yet just have it be the series finale on top of that, there is no hope to defeat the titans you just live and suffer until a giant monster eats you. No warning either just the end, and watch the fans lose their shit.
For real though what @Secret Asshole said is probably the best answer, have the basement reveal something far worse than the titans is out there. Hell don't even really reveal it, maybe just have it being some research showing all the titans come from a single location and sending the characters on journey to find out what's at the titans nest.
so the anime has jews now... was this the last episode for some time? would be a good end for a season.
Secret Asshole
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Most people ditched the series after the basement reveal, and as predicted, this episode was a huge waste of fucking time. Literally nothing happened. Any idiot could have inferred Erwin was right during Midnight Sun. Eren isn't actually being Evil, we really don't know why he's doing what he's doing, but its implied he learned some horrible secret during the timeskip and has been working towards some nebulous goal for years now. The problem is, again, I don't think Isayama knows
The correct response is that there is no outside world. Humanity is on the brink of death from a hostile civilization that abandoned their humanity long ago. You could make the outside higher tier tech if you wanted, but the immortal empire rules all.
The basement being empty would have been an interesting spin. And yes, I wouldn't reveal the whole fucking plot like that tard did with the basement. You don't do that. If you eliminate the mystery right then and there, it basically does what happened with the manga, everyone fucking drops it.
Also, my answer explains why the shifters don't just go on a rampage and destroy the walls. Its because the immortals require humanity not to be killed, but to be devoured by the mindless Titans to find out which of them would be shifters. They'd then find those shifters, and in turn, devour them to gain their power. Hows that for fucking horror? Not only you survive being eaten to find out this great power, but then immortal monsters fight over who to eat you again to gain immortality.
Just give me the fucking manga, I'll do your stupid fucking themes and tone better Isayama and I won't turn it into political drama faggotry or have it end in a fucktarded time loop. 90% of your audience barely gives a shit about your story and is too busy shipping characters and talking about them fucking. You've completely fucking failed. And then when the anime drops into the toilet because next Season is basically Marley, which NOBODY GIVES A FUCK about. It cannot be stated how unpopular the timeskip and Marley was.
No, we have 4 more to go. The Basement in the manga was just like in the anime, a total waste of fucking time. It was complete filler. Which is why adaptions should at least try different things. Its not like the studio isn't aware that the manga drops into the gutter hard after season 3.
Honestly, if I had to rewrite this series, I'd just scrap the basement all together. I'd scrap a lot of things. Basically everything except the very basic premise itself. I'd keep everything very simple, and take everything back to where it was inspired from; a zombie apocalypse.
There is no KoM, there are no titan shifters, and if I was forced to include them, I'd just make them as mutant forms of titans, Krista is not royalty, there is no basement, there is no stupid magic system, there is no time loop, there is no evil force outside the Walls. It would just be a unique version of a zombie apocalypse in medieval/steampunk setting. It doesn't need anything else to still be a great story.
We kill all the titans, we see the ocean, we're done. We never learn where the titans came from. It's a riddle for the ages. They just appeared one day, and there is always a very real possibility that they could just as easily come back. I know it's kind of a cop-out, but for me, that's the best way to end things without making everything overly complicated. The fact is that there's just somethings in life we'll never know.
My only other idea is to have Erwin as a titan shifter who purposefully uses bad tactics designed to cause as much death and destruction as possible in order to weaken what's left of humanity, but anything beyond that I really haven't thought of. Why he's doing it, and what he hopes to obtain, I have no fucking clue.
There is no KoM, there are no titan shifters, and if I was forced to include them, I'd just make them as mutant forms of titans, Krista is not royalty, there is no basement, there is no stupid magic system, there is no time loop, there is no evil force outside the Walls. It would just be a unique version of a zombie apocalypse in medieval/steampunk setting. It doesn't need anything else to still be a great story.
We kill all the titans, we see the ocean, we're done. We never learn where the titans came from. It's a riddle for the ages. They just appeared one day, and there is always a very real possibility that they could just as easily come back. I know it's kind of a cop-out, but for me, that's the best way to end things without making everything overly complicated. The fact is that there's just somethings in life we'll never know.
My only other idea is to have Erwin as a titan shifter who purposefully uses bad tactics designed to cause as much death and destruction as possible in order to weaken what's left of humanity, but anything beyond that I really haven't thought of. Why he's doing it, and what he hopes to obtain, I have no fucking clue.
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kadoink
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I think keeping the basement as a goal is fine, its just what was in the basement that got in the way. I was expecting that what was in the basement was like documented proof that the titans were "forces of nature" that were used by the royal family in order to keep control of their kingdom.
The titans would be to keep other kingdoms away, keep the population under control, keep the royal family in power among the nobles, have a common enemy to rally against and keep a need for the royal family and nobility among the lower classes.
Something as simple as that where the story remains self contained and stays where it started would have been nice. A bit mundane, but having it so that this is literally the whole world to the characters instead of going off to invade Israel as revenge for invading the west banks and then having time travel to stop Sarah Conner from having John Conner was too much.
The titans would be to keep other kingdoms away, keep the population under control, keep the royal family in power among the nobles, have a common enemy to rally against and keep a need for the royal family and nobility among the lower classes.
Something as simple as that where the story remains self contained and stays where it started would have been nice. A bit mundane, but having it so that this is literally the whole world to the characters instead of going off to invade Israel as revenge for invading the west banks and then having time travel to stop Sarah Conner from having John Conner was too much.
Switching gears here for a moment, but I've been wanting to ask you guys this for a while. I want you to remember the first third of AoT. Back when it was good. In your opinion, what was dumbest/worst moment of it?
I'm going with the Court Room Scene on the grounds that it makes no fucking sense. Now there's a lot of reasons for this, but for the sake of simplicity, and (relative) shortness, I'm just going to cut it down to main ones. If any of this incorrect, please tell me. It would actually make me really happy to know that this scene might not be as big of a dumpster fire as I think it is.
I'm going with the Court Room Scene on the grounds that it makes no fucking sense. Now there's a lot of reasons for this, but for the sake of simplicity, and (relative) shortness, I'm just going to cut it down to main ones. If any of this incorrect, please tell me. It would actually make me really happy to know that this scene might not be as big of a dumpster fire as I think it is.
- The fact that literally no one except for Mikasa tries to stop Levi while he's kicking the shit out Eren. This is despite the fact that there were people ready to shoot Eren, guns drawn, loaded, and everything, right before it started.
- The above mentioned issue is even more egregious when you consider the fact that to the people outside the SC, Eren somehow both had no control, and yet total control of his powers. You'd think that they'd be freaking out that Levi attacking him would trigger him into shifting either on accident, or by making him even angrier, and that they'd want to stop him even more. Again, you'd think, but no. They just stand there and do nothing.
- The beatdown was primarily to show that Levi could handle Eren easily. However, this reason completely falls apart when you remember that Eren didn't have full control over his abilities yet, and could literally shift, at least partially, at any moment (spoon incident anyone?). Now this wouldn't be such an issue until you realize that a) they're in building, b) even if Titan Eren could somehow fit inside of the courthouse, there's still going to be a massive explosion, and most importantly c) Levi does not have his gear in this scene. In fact, I'm pretty sure no one does. So Eren just so happened to shift, they'd all be screwed.
- The second motive for the beating is to show how awful it is to this brutal to a kid. This also doesn't hold up very well either due to the fact that kids are routinely treated like shit in this series what with them being allowed to join the military groups at age twelve, the fact that the training involved to join is brutal, and frequently sabotaged by the trainers, and that kids die all the time from it. Oh yeah, there's that everyone in this story should be used to seeing fucked up shit at this point, so one constipated, angry dwarf beating up an even angrier teenager shouldn't effect them that much.
- For some reason, no one considers the possibility that Eren might hold a grudge against the man who just beat him within an inch of his life, and that giving him to said man might not be a good idea. I mean, we the audience know he won't, but they don't. They just hand him right over without even thinking about it even once.
I wonder how his Editor and publisher are handling him running the manga off a cliff? Editor and publishers in the manga industry are pretty well known for being very heavy handed with Naruto and DBZ both very good examples of this, especially with franchises that are reliably printing money.
kadoink
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Spike Spiegel was Jewish ;P
No he wasnt.. japanese just dont understand european names... also why does every god anime is in the future and full of germans?
How do we know they're not the ones enforcing this to begin with? Sure Ishiyama might be the main issue here, but who's to say the Editor and/or publisher aren't egging him on or came up with the idea in the first place to cash in on the GoT crowd?
They did ally with the Nazis.
Wasn’t there a scene early in the anime that could be summed up as “lol stupid people and religion”? There was a group huddled together in the church praying for protection and then a titan hand slammed down on them? Seemed like it was played more for laughs rather than shock and horror?
Secret Asshole
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Well, they worshiped the walls and prevented further fortifications on them for decades. They were basically powerful. Its not so much 'lol stupid religon' as a representation of the feudalistic, medieval church. The problem with the church is that Isayma basically abandons all the medieval pretenses, so like a lot of things in Attack on Titan, this representation no longer matters and is hence pointless to even include. He just constantly ditches themes and ideas when he gets bored and inserts new ones. It is very, very badly done.
I honestly didn't think of this. Now that you explain it out it seems pretty terrible. But I think mine is worse: Erwin's plan for the female Titan.
That was so fucktarded. When I was watching it, I was like "TRANSFORM YOU FUCK, CLEARLY NOBODY HAS A FUCKING CLUE AND YOUR ELITES ARE DYING. WHY ARE YOU TRUSTING THESE FUCKTARDS. YOU HAVE THE ADVANTAGE RIGHT NOW." Even Eren got it right when if he transformed into a Titan it would have had to go crystal and fight. Plus you've got a squad of elite Titan killers right fucking there. Have Mikasa with him. Having her not be there makes NO FUCKING SENSE. Why isn't she there? She'll fight the hardest for him. And you've got your best team there as well! Fuck capturing it. Making it go into the tight forest where its larger and has a bigger disadvantage than Eren who is more nimble, though less experienced, with a host of Titan murderers, you'd have just ended her right then and there. You could have even bought time for Erwin with his cannons to move. It wouldn't be able to keep up the damage the squad and Eren would do to it, making constant crystallization hard. Then just have Annie commit sepukku by saying she's a warrior and just adding to the mystery. And not have her be out of commission for four fucking years.
But no, let's totally rely on this one plan which we have no idea which will work or not and you have to make sure you get it EXACTLY RIGHT at a female Titan running at like fucking full blast. Not the Titan you have and your most experienced team to constantly force it to regen itself while Eren is beating its face in, and then surround the fucking thing, cutting it to pieces. Have fucking Mikasa there too. So you have your A-Team and a Titan vs. One Shifter. You clearly outnumber and outclass it. Instead you'll try to capture a Titan Shifter, of that which you have no idea what its capabilities are or its powers or even the extent of its strength. Or even if your timing will be right. Its so fucking dumb.
I've even got one better. Use those stupid spike traps to trip her. Then use close range cannon fire to blow off her legs. Then have your A-Team with Mikasa and the Attack Titan kill the ever living fuck out of it. If she ever looks like she's getting the upper hand, pepper her with cannon fire from cover. She can't take the cannons out because she's surrounded and the cannons don't risk hitting your scouts because you can always aim the trajectory low since they're attacking from height. I mean its so fucking stupid. There are so many better plans. You fuck up her titan enough not to heal. I never got that shit with the cannons. 'Canons can't kill Titans, therefore useless'. No, cannons with smokeless powder can fuck titans up so your soldiers can go in and finish them. Like, you never bothered thinking about having a support team for your scouts and develop explosive and grapeshot weapons more to disable Titans to make them easier to kill so you don't get wiped every time they move a foot outside the wall? Its like "Well, we can't kill them with explosives. Therefore they are completely and utterly useless and we have no use to develop them any further. What, have a support team with mobile explosive weapons disable Titans while your scout squad kills the now huge, immobile targets? IMPOSSIBL-" *develops thunder spears in 30 seconds*
Here's why that happened: Isayma couldn't have a squad of elite Titan killers. He needed to nerf them. So he comes up with a stupid plan that looks brilliant, because the watcher doesn't really know what the fuck is going on at that point since its still early in the series. He also needs to raise the stakes, so he does it artificially by having them fuck up. And then, as a consequence, Annie is just out of commission because maybe he wants to do something with her later. Of which he has no idea. And still does not. She'll probably wake up and then get eaten or something. Why fans still fawn over her shows the quality of the community this manga/show has.
People still whine about Armin winning in serum bowl. But Erwin lost multiple elite squads for a stupid fucking plan when he had the largest advantage by leading Annie into the woods. She wouldn't have been able to prevail. No shot. Plus, Annie chasing them IN the woods was stupid on her part. She thought she could beat Eren's Titan form and the best squads with like over a hundred kills to their name? C'mon son.
I'm not sure. The manga definitely had issues before reaching that point, but the way ideas are brought up and discarded and the sheer amount of narrative that doesn't make sense or don't have any clear way to resolve effectively within the story (Annie being the biggest example. She should have been killed long ago. Now what's she going to do? Wake up after four years then be killed, because she's now completely irrelevant as a character except she is a Titan shifter, which essentially means she transformed from a character into a boring McGuffin so Eren can time travel? GENIUS).
There's too much that's all over the place for a publisher. JoJo is just as, if not more popular and is tight as fuck. Isayama gets these ideas and just drops them. He's probably going to end with a time loop because he has no fucking clue what he's doing.
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I didn't think much about the Annie thing either until now, and you've explained it pretty well. But what makes it even worse for me is that the convoluted plan somehow worked, and they had actually captured her, and then Levi had to fuck it up. He had to do what he'll come to always do in these situations, and threaten to torture the captive, which then scares them enough to escaping. Annie then runs off, kills Levi's squad, almost captures Eren, Levi breaks his ankle to stop her, and that in itself sets off another trainwreck of events down the line.
They had fucking won, and yet Levi had to ruin it. Something that he always does. The same thing happens with Zeke. Twice.
Moving on to the topic of Annie, I actually like her. She's an interesting character, and made for a really cool first villain. She should've also died already, or at least have done something besides being stuck as a human disco ball, and being Armin's personal spank material.
Seriously though, I honestly thought that Isayama forgot about her until recently. Wouldn't be surprised if he had, either.
People are only mad about Armin getting the serum because Erwin/Levi is one of the most popular ships in the series (right behind Eren/Levi, if I'm not mistaken), and if Erwin dies, their ship dies.
That's it.
There was an editor in past who did help out a lot. He's the one you can thank for Sasha making it as far she did. Isayama wanted to kill way back right before the Krista is Royalty arc, but the editor apparently cried so much that Isayama didn't go through with it. I don't know where the guy is now, and it's definitely too late to fix anything at this point.
On a side note, it seems apparent that Isayama really hated Sasha, and I don't know why. He just seems to for no reason.
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