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- #341
Yeah, LOK is bad and Bryke are absolute hackfrauds who got lucky to work with the team they had during ATLA. Its pretty much an implicit reality you have to accept entering this thread.
Avatar: The Last Airbender / The Legend of Korra -
- Thread starter Trickie
- Start date
Astrapi
kiwifarms.net
The whole thing is moot. If people had magic powers on top of their normal human skills, of course they would be at the top of society. It doesn't mean they should be "blue-collar" because "bending makes them better at plumbing". They just decided that with electricity-bending because it was convenient to them and that makes zero sense. If a single earth bender could design and build an entire house in less than a day that skill would be worth 50 people and he/she should be paid in proportion.
Also talent isn't even evenly distributed in the real world. You can be great at chemistry and a talented composer.
Lok and Atla tend to have all the gadgeeter geniuses and a lot of the posh people be muggles but in truth it's just a really weak excuse to buff them up and integrate them in the story. You should find bender that have other skills.
Finally, might makes right. If you could breath fire at the competition you would climb the social lader faster and hoard all the ressources.
Also talent isn't even evenly distributed in the real world. You can be great at chemistry and a talented composer.
Lok and Atla tend to have all the gadgeeter geniuses and a lot of the posh people be muggles but in truth it's just a really weak excuse to buff them up and integrate them in the story. You should find bender that have other skills.
Finally, might makes right. If you could breath fire at the competition you would climb the social lader faster and hoard all the ressources.
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That would be the case if the writers were better at "show, don't tell".
I kinda doubt that's true since the source of the claims is just "dude trust me", but if they actually Riverdale'd Avatar, it's gonna be a trainwreck of the decade and I can't wait for it.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
But will it be worse than Shamalan?
wtfNeedSignUp
kiwifarms.net
Was there any continuation of Korra's story on comics? You'd expect it will be a good dumping ground for shitty ideas and virtue signalling.
Ya know despite myself having repeatedly compared shit to riverdale in terms of absolute gutter trash melodramatic relationship soap opera schtick, I have yet to even see the slightest clip of riverdale to confirm if the show is actually like this, but every time i work up the courage i hear some new horror story about how painfully cancerous it is to watch even for consoomers and wokespeds so I pussy out
If they have actually riverdale'd avatar then I am going to laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.
Oh yes, that shit. Destroyed Kuvira as a character again and this fine piece of modern art was created in one of the pages:
biscuitscilia
kiwifarms.net
I was brave enough to get 20 minutes into episode one and it was exactly that, but it's more accurate to call it a teen mystery, which is even more insufferable. The melodramatic romance garbage is there though and you also get to see Betty and Veronica kiss for no reason.
Y'know, I was gonna say I doubt it'd be that bad and that no one would be stupid enough to radically misread the material and audience like that but then I remembered the Death Note movie.
3MMA
kiwifarms.net
Uncle Iroh was one of my favorite things in ATLA.
Took me forever to finally watch both ATLA & TLOK.
I liked the more feudal setting in the original Avatar better than the 1920’s rip-off in Korra.
I did enjoy both though, Korra dragged a bit more. To be fair, parts of Avatar drag too.
The world building does get kind of fucked up in Korra, too.
I had issues w/ random fire benders, fucking lightning bending to weld or whatever, when teen Zuko, close enough to Mako’s age, couldn’t even bend lightning yet, only redirect it.
Stupid shit like that. Then I wondered about lion turtles vs original bending, dragons, badger moles, etc.
Pretty much all the usual gripes.
The few things that really kind of stuck w/ me that bug, or bother, are “energy bending” vs blood bending, for one thing.
1st, was the lion turtle which Aang learned from in s3, confirmed to have passed “energy bending” to him, or is that term a fandom or ret con, term? Avatar didn’t make it too clear, & I’ve only seen it called that after the fact. I may be remembering incorrectly, too.
Anyhow, if Amon was SO amazing that he could use blood bending to cut off other benders abilities, then it seems to reason that more blood bending should fix it. In other words, water bending.
But no, as Korra gets a visit from spirit Aang in s1 of tlok, & then fixes people. Her Jesus power isn’t explicitly called “energy bending” in the show, either.
Where the fuck did energy bending cone from, as a term? Was it in the ATLA post series comics? (I’ve not read every single one, yet)
An interview w/ the too cocksure writers, responsible for the BS?
Fandom name takeover?
If anyone is sure, I’d be interested. I saw some shit about an energy bending (& other “unknown”) lion fucking turtles, but don’t recall if it was from a crap speculation presented as canon source, or actually for real.
There are quite a few things like channels, “news” groups, etc, online, that pass speculation off as truth, especially surrounding Avatar series’s stuff.
The last thing that bugged me was from either a comment or discussion I saw, re Uncle Iroh, Zuko, & Azula. It said something like, “did Iroh fail Azula?” & referred to the fact that she was 14, & just as much a product of her environment as the 16 year old Zuko. Yet Iroh just writes her off.
Azula did act psychopathic sometimes, if not often. So did Zuko, actually.
Zuko had a character arc & story which was explored. Azula not so much.
As Ozai’s favorite child, she was rewarded for winning, smarts, sneaking, cunning, & separate of this, a prodigy.
Being a prodigy caught her Grandfather & Father’s eyes. Then she was rewarded for her behavior, on top of her skill.
Her Mom gave Zuko extra attention, & this drove Azula to seek Evil Daddy’s approval even more.
It’s all a messed up circle. Zuko had Iroh. Azula had no one like that. She could have accepted Zuko, but not at that teen age, w/ the rivalry they shared.
Zuko had Iroh. Iroh was smart, kind, etc, how could he not see Azula, beneath her environment & what it turned her into, how he did with Zuko?
It’s a mix a nature & nurture, our genetics & experiences, that create us.
It’s too easy to say, “psychopath” about her, write it off. It’s not the whole story.
So, the thing I saw that stayed w/ me, bugged me, to some degree, was, “Did Uncle Iroh fail Azula? Why?” I believe it also posited that it may have been a man, valuing a boy, over a girl. A form of misogyny, not really one anyone can help, as lots of people prefer kids of one sex. It’s common, a dad wanting a son, a mom wanting a girl. Or vice versa.
Or, in Iroh’s case, an uncle whose own son died, so he took Zuko as his surrogate.
As I don’t see Iroh as a “misogynist” or anything. He was my favorite in either series. I doubt it was intentional if it was that way. I think the place I saw this was some dumb, woke article, trying to blame men for everything, which is stupid. There was a truth under all that stupid virtue signaling though. The unconscious (or not) desire I described, above.
Maybe he was behaving that way, subconsciously? Or the writers, I guess. Or they didn’t even think of it? Who knows.
All I know is apparently one of the OG creators supposedly loves Azula…but after thinking about it, it seems like maybe she did get dealt the most shit hand.
I’m hoping we get something good out of the new projects that are said to be in the works.
I’d like to see Azula maybe get a chance at a character arc of growth. I’d love to see her secret society from the comics, animated. Even more, it would be awesome to see her go off to learn from the sun warriors or something cool. I doubt that will ever come to pass, though.
A Kyoshi show would be great. I’d prefer to see some past avatars over a new one, post Korra. I don’t want to see an even more BS “modern era” w/ people bending even stupider shit, like Dr’s blood bending in some horrible Grey’s Anatomy storyline or something equally lame.
Took me forever to finally watch both ATLA & TLOK.
I liked the more feudal setting in the original Avatar better than the 1920’s rip-off in Korra.
I did enjoy both though, Korra dragged a bit more. To be fair, parts of Avatar drag too.
The world building does get kind of fucked up in Korra, too.
I had issues w/ random fire benders, fucking lightning bending to weld or whatever, when teen Zuko, close enough to Mako’s age, couldn’t even bend lightning yet, only redirect it.
Stupid shit like that. Then I wondered about lion turtles vs original bending, dragons, badger moles, etc.
Pretty much all the usual gripes.
The few things that really kind of stuck w/ me that bug, or bother, are “energy bending” vs blood bending, for one thing.
1st, was the lion turtle which Aang learned from in s3, confirmed to have passed “energy bending” to him, or is that term a fandom or ret con, term? Avatar didn’t make it too clear, & I’ve only seen it called that after the fact. I may be remembering incorrectly, too.
Anyhow, if Amon was SO amazing that he could use blood bending to cut off other benders abilities, then it seems to reason that more blood bending should fix it. In other words, water bending.
But no, as Korra gets a visit from spirit Aang in s1 of tlok, & then fixes people. Her Jesus power isn’t explicitly called “energy bending” in the show, either.
Where the fuck did energy bending cone from, as a term? Was it in the ATLA post series comics? (I’ve not read every single one, yet)
An interview w/ the too cocksure writers, responsible for the BS?
Fandom name takeover?
If anyone is sure, I’d be interested. I saw some shit about an energy bending (& other “unknown”) lion fucking turtles, but don’t recall if it was from a crap speculation presented as canon source, or actually for real.
There are quite a few things like channels, “news” groups, etc, online, that pass speculation off as truth, especially surrounding Avatar series’s stuff.
The last thing that bugged me was from either a comment or discussion I saw, re Uncle Iroh, Zuko, & Azula. It said something like, “did Iroh fail Azula?” & referred to the fact that she was 14, & just as much a product of her environment as the 16 year old Zuko. Yet Iroh just writes her off.
Azula did act psychopathic sometimes, if not often. So did Zuko, actually.
Zuko had a character arc & story which was explored. Azula not so much.
As Ozai’s favorite child, she was rewarded for winning, smarts, sneaking, cunning, & separate of this, a prodigy.
Being a prodigy caught her Grandfather & Father’s eyes. Then she was rewarded for her behavior, on top of her skill.
Her Mom gave Zuko extra attention, & this drove Azula to seek Evil Daddy’s approval even more.
It’s all a messed up circle. Zuko had Iroh. Azula had no one like that. She could have accepted Zuko, but not at that teen age, w/ the rivalry they shared.
Zuko had Iroh. Iroh was smart, kind, etc, how could he not see Azula, beneath her environment & what it turned her into, how he did with Zuko?
It’s a mix a nature & nurture, our genetics & experiences, that create us.
It’s too easy to say, “psychopath” about her, write it off. It’s not the whole story.
So, the thing I saw that stayed w/ me, bugged me, to some degree, was, “Did Uncle Iroh fail Azula? Why?” I believe it also posited that it may have been a man, valuing a boy, over a girl. A form of misogyny, not really one anyone can help, as lots of people prefer kids of one sex. It’s common, a dad wanting a son, a mom wanting a girl. Or vice versa.
Or, in Iroh’s case, an uncle whose own son died, so he took Zuko as his surrogate.
As I don’t see Iroh as a “misogynist” or anything. He was my favorite in either series. I doubt it was intentional if it was that way. I think the place I saw this was some dumb, woke article, trying to blame men for everything, which is stupid. There was a truth under all that stupid virtue signaling though. The unconscious (or not) desire I described, above.
Maybe he was behaving that way, subconsciously? Or the writers, I guess. Or they didn’t even think of it? Who knows.
All I know is apparently one of the OG creators supposedly loves Azula…but after thinking about it, it seems like maybe she did get dealt the most shit hand.
I’m hoping we get something good out of the new projects that are said to be in the works.
I’d like to see Azula maybe get a chance at a character arc of growth. I’d love to see her secret society from the comics, animated. Even more, it would be awesome to see her go off to learn from the sun warriors or something cool. I doubt that will ever come to pass, though.
A Kyoshi show would be great. I’d prefer to see some past avatars over a new one, post Korra. I don’t want to see an even more BS “modern era” w/ people bending even stupider shit, like Dr’s blood bending in some horrible Grey’s Anatomy storyline or something equally lame.
Ah, you clearly understand the big falencies in either shows.
I readed in some forum (idk if was 4chan at this point), when the real deal after ATLA S3 was a movie, relating Azula's redemption. But that later changed when Viacom ordered to make a sequel and not a post-cartoon movie (like i'm sure it was a standard in many of them, like Ed, Edd & Eddy, KND, etc). The first thing they idealized was a mini-serie and later that after that it became a complete sequel with seasons, which was TLOK.
If you can see clearly the first episodes, the theory of the mini-serie is heavely supported.
I'm sure that's why S2 is such a shithole in every step, probably except of the Wan arc.
starborn427614
kiwifarms.net
They're surprisingly bad. I'm not sure whether it's the tone of the original show that doesn't translate well into a non-vocal format or that the writers just can't capture the same magic. Might be a bit of both.
Its the fact that Bryke had complete creative control with no one to actually tell these hackfrauds to not go full retard like the producers/co-writers did with the show.
One Man Bland
kiwifarms.net
Man, I really dislike this point; mainly because the people who are the most vocal about it aren’t interested in seeing Azula being expanded on, or exploring her motives and relationships with the cast, so much as hand-waving all the genuinely shitty things she did by making her actions everyone else’s responsibility.
For one, Azula never liked Iroh. Literally the first thing she ever says to him on screen is to STFU, so between that with all the indications that Ozai often talks shit about Iroh around his kids and it’s clear Iroh was never going to get through to her. For another, Iroh didn’t choose Zuko over Azula so much as he found himself in a Catch 22 when Zuko got burned and banished. When faced with the choice of accompanying the kid still recovering from his injuries (that he likely blames himself for) who’s going to be out at sea on a hopeless mission indefinitely, and and the kid who’s currently not in physical danger and also hates him, Iroh’s decision makes perfect sense.
The closest he ever gets to showing real animosity towards Azula is his "she needs to go down" bit, but given that hours before she shot him point blank with an extremely hot type of fire by using really dishonorable tactics, I think he can be forgiven for not being at his most charitable in that moment. Plus, he’s absolutely correct: if she’s willing to fake a surrender once just to get in a cheap shot, she can’t be trusted not to do it again - and given the finale Iroh was absolutely right about that. The safest bet if they had run into her again would be a win by KO. Yet even then Iroh only ever used indirect and deflective maneuvers with her, not meant to damage. Those aren’t the actions of someone who doesn’t care at all. Zuko shows way more outward hostility towards Azula, and is way more eager to act on it, but those moments go unmentioned.
The dumbest complaints though are the ones about Iroh giving her the doll as a gift. All the background information in the show indicates Iroh spent a majority of his time on the front lines. Considering Azula’s age in the flashbacks, the doll seems more an indication Iroh simply hadn‘t spent as much time with her because she was really young last time he saw her, and he went with what probably seemed like a safe bet for what the average young girl would enjoy as a gift. Hell, given that he was shown to frequently correspond with Ursa, and Ursa looked surprised when Azula incinerated it, it’s possible that Ursa was the one who suggested it as a gift in the first place. It‘s probably the worst and most baffling example of Azula spergs grasping for straws.
Though Bryke and the comics go in opposite direction with Azula. You can’t effectively expand in Azula’s character without touching on her relationship with Ozai, but the comics frame Azula‘s behavior as the result of her merely being a bad egg (and to a greater extent that evilness is genetic) to honestly absurd degrees. It gets to the point that in one panel they seemingly imply (either intentionally or accidentally) that Fire Lord Azulon’s assassination was orchestrated by an 8-10 year old Azula because… boredom, I guess. Doesn’t help that the comics are written by idiots, so all her master plans are a bunch of convoluted nonsense as a result.
3MMA
kiwifarms.net
Excellent & thoughtful insights. Really expands on what bugged me. I never pinpointed exactly why the comics I did familiarize myself with, screwed the pooch so fuckin’ hard.
I’ll have to see if I can find that piece I read stating Azula was a creators favorite character. By creator, I read it to mean or Konietzko or DiMartino.
Bet it was just fucking Bryke, wanking-off on the character as if she was his special, danger-girl, “toxic” dream fantasy fodder.
You know, the “I LOVE the villian” thing? But not just that, which is fine, but with the unfortunate inconvenience of ability to make his personal spank bank fanfic, canon.
Iroh was too awesome to be reduced to such idiotic, infantile, speculations about his “misogyny” or whatever other buzzword was applied to him, on this matter.
It was a writing issue. The plot holes it left were certainly not helped by some hack who got off on trying to monster-make Azula as some devil child who ran all fire nation evil plots since she was a drip out of Ozai’s dick, & especially not because those ideas got Bryke off.
starborn427614
kiwifarms.net
Wasn't Ursa the one who offed the previous Firelord and that's why she had to vanish? I may be forgetting my lore.
Ursa and Ozai are responsible for Azula. I never blamed Iroh for not being more open towards her. Let's face it, Azula is nasty. She's a child and most of her issues stem from Ursa being a selfish asshole, but the writers needed a threatening villain character and Zuko would have lost out had Iroh focused on both of them.
Gar For Archer
kiwifarms.net
I forget the exact circumstances, but I think it was that Ozai had sent Iroh’s son to the front lines to die and their father was going to punish him by making him kill his own son (which he was totally about to go through with), but Ursa offered herself up to take his place.
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