Batwoman on The CW -

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SteelPlatedHeart

Not-So-New Guy
True & Honest Fan
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They are saving that up for the end. I am also expecting an episode with Harley Quinn, where we learn that Joker is a super-abusive asshole (the showrunners seem petty enough to throw some shade on the character of Joker, just to bite back at it being the highest grossing r-rated movie of all time).
The latest episode mentioned the Joker being arrested a year or so back and gave him an actual name.
 
Watching this because I hate myself and actually watch the CW Shows (I like Flash and Legends..because I hate myself) and want to be caught up before watching Crisis.

Somehow it isn't as bad as Supergirl is. There are..interesting ideas that if the writing weren't absolute trash could be entertaining.
 

RumblyTumbly

kiwifarms.net
I stopped watching the CW shows a couple of seasons ago.

I did hear that Legends of Tomorrow did an episode where they met Ishiro Honda, the director of the original Godzilla film and 7 of its sequels.

Was that any good and is it worth watching for a Godzilla fan?
 

UnKillFill

Am I blue?
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IIRC it involves a giant monster destroying a Japanese city, honestly..Legends after season 1 is worth watching in general, it is Cheesy..but it is fun, like even the Woke shit they do is entertaining.
"Legends" is the show that made me say fuck it to the entire CWverse as a whole. They were a lame enough team when Rory from Doctor Who was their leader, but then when he randomly disappeared and the stupid dyke (I want to say I remember her being trapped in the past and doing lesbo shit with a real life woman who wasn't actually a lesbo for a lengthy period of time) became the de-facto leader.

From what I've heard about how they treated Conroy Batman, I was right to dump this shit early.
 

ScamL Likely

IT'S! NOT! EVEN! HOT! OUT! SIDE~!
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Watching this because I hate myself and actually watch the CW Shows (I like Flash and Legends..because I hate myself) and want to be caught up before watching Crisis.

Somehow it isn't as bad as Supergirl is. There are..interesting ideas that if the writing weren't absolute trash could be entertaining.
I stopped watching all of them a couple of years back but supergirl was definitely the most cringe-inducing one of the bunch that were around at the time. Even from what I've heard about this show without watching it, I think it'd be hard to top Supergirl in terms of pound for pound cringe.
 
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Pixy Misa

Your local evil magical girl.
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I didn't know we had this thread.

Batwoman episode 9 (the crisis one) was my first episode. It will also be my last. It just made me dislike Kate, and how smug, and rude she is. I know I was supposed to cheer like when she was agresive with Luthor, but it just came as her being too bitchy and unlikeabe.

Also, Not a fan of what they did with Tom Welling and Kevin Conroy's characters. I really only watched this episode for them, so it really was a let down.

I'm on the camp that it disrespected Kevin's first live-action appearance to shill Batwoman, and it also made Smallville's entire series pointless given it ended with him just giving up his powers off-screen. Also, they seriously wasted Kevin Conroy, but as consolation his acting was amazing, he could do an amazing live-action old Bruce for a Batman beyond show.

I know the DC CW has a lot of fans, but I just couldn't get into them, and I tend to like capeshit a lot. I commend them for going deep with the nerd references and comic lore and how they aren't embarrassed with even the silliest comic source material like other superhero shows.

But, the SJW, identity Politics turned me off.
 
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"Legends" is the show that made me say fuck it to the entire CWverse as a whole. They were a lame enough team when Rory from Doctor Who was their leader, but then when he randomly disappeared and the stupid dyke (I want to say I remember her being trapped in the past and doing lesbo shit with a real life woman who wasn't actually a lesbo for a lengthy period of time) became the de-facto leader.

From what I've heard about how they treated Conroy Batman, I was right to dump this shit early.
Legends got better, and I was sad how they handled Conroy as well..but I was too busy being horribly disappointed because "Batman of the Future" wasn't Terry. I let myself get hyped to hell when a Young Black Street Looking Kid opened the door.
 
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Overly Serious

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Somehow it isn't as bad as Supergirl is. There are..interesting ideas that if the writing weren't absolute trash could be entertaining.
Yes - few things could be as bad as Supergirl. Despite the execrable "when it fits a woman" trailer the Batwoman show itself isn't THAT hectoring about female empowerment. Whilst Supergirl can't go five minutes without either a woman putting a bad male in his place or a good male exclaiming how much better a woman is than him. I washed out around the time Callista Flockheart made a speech about how only they could save the world because they didn't have penises, but I have occasionally looked back in for cross-over reasons or out of morbid curiosity. Last time I did, Lois Lane was telling people how a Harvard study showed women were better in a crisis than men. And don't even start on the Trump parody and immigration commentary.

Batwoman actually has good elements. It's super-rushed which I understand is because it had to fit in with the big Crisis cross-over event but weirdly I think that actually helps. What would normally be season long arcs are thrown out at rapid speed. "I think they'll eventually reveal that's her sister..." 20 minutes later... "Oh, it's her sister!" Show is a total rollercoaster and I kind of like that. Had to drop from watching it due to time but I'll probably go back to it when I can and see some more. I like Ruby Rose and I think once all the hate has died down from that trailer, history will look back on it more positively. It's a mess, but I'll take that over Supergirl's big moment of the titular character getting "pants!".
 

Pixy Misa

Your local evil magical girl.
kiwifarms.net
Even before I discovered all the SJW propaganda in Supergirl I've always thought the premise was flawed from the start.

There are many interpretations of the character, but they went with the blandest possible choice by going with a soap opera kind of deal, and I even cringed a little when I learned there was a "team supergirl". I mean, having a backup team does work for The flash, and Green Arrow, but it absolutely doesn't for characters like Spider-man, Iron man, and I would argue Supergirl. Not to be confused with having a strong supporting cast which is fine.

IMHO, shoehorning a team of sidekicks just made Supegirl blander. I think it's just too safe, and it makes things too easy.

And I'm not talking about dealing with supervillains, but in the sense that it gives the hero a hugbox/echo chamber. Say you can't have stories of a hero forced to chose between duty and love, or feeling lonely and misunderstood if your love interest and friends are your trusty sidekicks.

Does that make sense?

Imagine a "team hulk". You couldn't have stories about him being in the run from the law, or feeling like a monster that everyone fears and hates, if he has a support group that pampers him, and guides him.

But, again, I do think it works for The Flash, and Green Arrow.

What I mean is that they gave up the interesting premise of "rebellious teenager with godly powers tries to find her place in a world that isn't her own", to "rehash of Superman, but he is now a woman working for a fashion magazine instead of a newspaper" , and from what I've seen, little was gained from it by shoehorning Flash and Arrows format.

It says a lot when Dc Superhero girls, a show made to sell dolls to preteen girls, is less campy and also does a much better job of making them interesting
 
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Overly Serious

kiwifarms.net
Even before I discovered all the SJW propaganda in Supergirl I've always thought the premise was flawed from the start.

There are many interpretations of the character, but they went with the blandest possible choice by going with a soap opera kind of deal, and I even cringed a little when I learned there was a "team supergirl". I mean, having a backup team does work for The flash, and Green Arrow, but it absolutely doesn't for characters like Spider-man, Iron man, and I would argue Supergirl. Not to be confused with having a strong supporting cast which is fine.

IMHO, shoehorning a team of sidekicks just made Supegirl blander. I think it's just too safe, and it makes things too easy.

And I'm not talking about dealing with supervillains, but in the sense that it gives the hero a hugbox/echo chamber. Say you can't have stories of a hero forced to chose between duty and love, or feeling lonely and misunderstood if your love interest and friends are your trusty sidekicks.

Does that make sense?

Imagine a "team hulk". You couldn't have stories about him being in the run from the law, or feeling like a monster that everyone fears and hates, if he has a support group that pampers him, and guides him.

But, again, I do think it works for The Flash, and Green Arrow.

What I mean is that they gave up the interesting premise of "rebellious teenager with godly powers tries to find her place in a world that isn't her own", to "rehash of Superman, but he is now a woman working for a fashion magazine instead of a newspaper" , and from what I've seen, little was gained from it by shoehorning Flash and Arrows format.

It says a lot when Dc Superhero girls, a show made to sell dolls to preteen girls, is less campy and also does a much better job of making them interesting
The support team idea worked for Arrow thematically as well as simply because he's not a demi-god. One of the major themes in Arrow from the start was that Oliver really has trouble trusting others and also exposing them to danger. Which made a lot of sense because he was betrayed by people very close to him and also spent a lot of time having to be self-sufficient because he was on his own without allies for a very long time - whether that be on the island, in Russia or wherever. He's continually found himself alone in adversity so in the first season you seem him absolutely resistant to including Diggle in his crusade. And his crusade is also a super-illegal campaign of extra-judicial executions so, you know, that makes sense too. TL;DR: The support team that grows around Oliver is a very thematic, integrated thing.

They tried the same thing with Barry on Flash where his endless survivor's guilt complex keeps pushing people away and there it works less well simply because we get tired of seeing the Flash of all people be a mopey person who pushes away his friends.

I hadn't considered the way Supergirl's support group limits the stories until you pointed it out but you're bang on. My biggest beef with the show when I still watched it, was the arbitrary stuff they'd do for agenda's sake. Like Alex, who IN HER MID-THIRTIES suddenly finds she's a lesbian. In Season One, they were developing an interesting little subtext between her and the villain Maxwell Lord which would have been interesting to see go somewhere. Romantic attraction of a hero for a villain is seldom used but usually interesting. Seldom used probably because a "hero" is supposed to be attracted to someone's good nature rather than "he's hot and rich and smart and that turns me on even though I don't like him."

EDIT: Side-note, one of the missed opportunities with Supergirl is that unlike Kal-El, Kara actually grew up on Krypton to at least her teenage years. In Supergirl they purposefully brought her down to... 8 or 9 years old when she arrived? I would like to have seen a Supergirl character who comes from a genuinely alien culture. My impression of Kryptonian society is that is atheistic (I know they have a "deity" Ra but I don't think they're actually religious), hyper-rational, a little austere and very socially conservative. I'd like to see a Supergirl that arrives on a planet that is, to her, backwards, superstitious, violent, You'd get her reactions to people going to Church and celebrating someone who supposedly came back to life two-thousand years ago. Maybe her initial reaction would be to view it like a Westerner might regard West African medicine magic but later she starts to see it as a role in a community. Maybe at first she sees America as hopelessly uncontrolled and disordered compared to the strict regimen of life on Krypton. But later begins to like the chaos. I could see her at school initially having no friends because everyone sees her as stuck up and superior. (Earth mathematics and science is essentially junior level stuff to her). But she learns to be less aloof and mix better.

But all of this would take away from her being this symbol. Which I think is what they want.
 
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Yes - few things could be as bad as Supergirl. Despite the execrable "when it fits a woman" trailer the Batwoman show itself isn't THAT hectoring about female empowerment. Whilst Supergirl can't go five minutes without either a woman putting a bad male in his place or a good male exclaiming how much better a woman is than him. I washed out around the time Callista Flockheart made a speech about how only they could save the world because they didn't have penises, but I have occasionally looked back in for cross-over reasons or out of morbid curiosity. Last time I did, Lois Lane was telling people how a Harvard study showed women were better in a crisis than men. And don't even start on the Trump parody and immigration commentary.
The worst part of Supergirl isn't the constant harping of Ideology..It is the fact that it harps on that Ideology..and then proceeds completely fucking undercut it at every point.

The biggest example of it was Agent Liberty or whatever he was called. The DRUMFPH NAZI ALT-RIGHT GUY they had. Part of his backstory was that in one of the previous seasons Alien invasions one of the Aliens and The Martian Manhunter crashed into the guys house as they were trying to evacuate. Manhunter throws Alien Mook through a window..knocks him out.

Then John says something along the lines of "You are safe citizens." and flies off to fight other alien mooks..Then Alt-Right Guy's house...Catches fire in an almost comedic way, and the good guys..who have a super spy agency working for them at no point take a moment to say to themselves "This man's house was completely destroyed in an Alien Invasion, maybe if we talk to him and show him some empathy we can change his mind." especially not Kara or John..WHO BOTH LOST THEIR HOMES.

And the kicker? Alt-Right Murica guy? He started as a College Level History professor talking about how The Colonists killed the Indians. That means in all likelyhood..He would have been a Lefty before Aliens literally destroyed his home, because him being a Right Wing college Professor would be the most unrealistic thing to happen in the Arrowverse.

PS : They had Kevin Sorbo as an alien with super strength and he didn't punch anything, I mean it is a nitpick and really minor but it is Kevin Sorbo HE SHOULD HAVE PUNCHED SOMETHING.
 

Notgoodwithusernames

My wife’s boyfriend is my son
kiwifarms.net
I didn't know we had this thread.

Batwoman episode 9 (the crisis one) was my first episode. It will also be my last. It just made me dislike Kate, and how smug, and rude she is. I know I was supposed to cheer like when she was agresive with Luthor, but it just came as her being too bitchy and unlikeabe.

Also, Not a fan of what they did with Tom Welling and Kevin Conroy's characters. I really only watched this episode for them, so it really was a let down.

I'm on the camp that it disrespected Kevin's first live-action appearance to shill Batwoman, and it also made Smallville's entire series pointless given it ended with him just giving up his powers off-screen. Also, they seriously wasted Kevin Conroy, but as consolation his acting was amazing, he could do an amazing live-action old Bruce for a Batman beyond show.

I know the DC CW has a lot of fans, but I just couldn't get into them, and I tend to like capeshit a lot. I commend them for going deep with the nerd references and comic lore and how they aren't embarrassed with even the silliest comic source material like other superhero shows.

But, the SJW, identity Politics turned me off.
It’s funny because the exact same thing happened to his colleague Mark Hamill with the last Jedi.

Both were hyped up parts of their respective stories

Both portray characters associated with them but in a different context (Luke as an old man Kevin Conroy as a live action version of Bruce Wayne/Batman)

From an acting standpoint they both did an outstanding job

However from a writing standpoint both were disappointments that crapped all over the legacy of their respective characters.

However of the two of them I’d say Old Man Bruce was the least awful since it was an alternate version rather than the mainline version,
 

Pixy Misa

Your local evil magical girl.
kiwifarms.net
But all of this would take away from her being this symbol. Which I think is what they want.
Not sure about the atheist stuff, mostly because IMHO If there is something people want less than SJW preaching is fedora tipping preaching, unless maybe if it was done with tact, but yeah I agree.

I would've preferred seeing her being more of alien girl adapting to earth than just having a crappy Devil wears Prada ripoff mixed with SJW politics, under a superhero paint job:


But a lot of people seem to like Supergirl, to the point it's got like 5 seasons, so maybe it is doing something right.

However, of the two of them, I’d say Old Man Bruce was the least awful since it was an alternate version rather than the mainline version,
I couldn't agree more.

I get that the heroes/ paragons need to be the people that actually have tv shows, but they should've known people wanted more than just using him to shill her. Like others have said, a passing of the torch would've been nice. As a consolation, this might mean the might hire him later to do more live-action Batman.

Though I also disliked the Smallville one. To be fair Tom Welling looked like a badass, and his scene was well acted too, and it was a nice nod, but it felt weird how they made a whole series about him becoming Superman and next time we see him, he quits. Imho it's as bad as seeing Luke quitting in TLJ . But not gonna debate it as I see a lot of people like it, so maybe it's just me.

Crisis was the first time I saw these CW shows and between the SJW politics of part 1 and part 2 questionable cameos, I'm not getting a good impression of the arrowverse at all.
 
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Well all the villains are dead, Bats went cray cray and just started murdering them..and well "Trophies" could be a reference to..well Trophies on an Xbox.

It could be completely accidental, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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