Biological Immortality - Ethical? -

[Olhelm]

http://www.livescience.com/6967-hang-25-year-wait-immortality.html

Personally, I'm hopping on the immortality train as soon as it stations. However, a question arises: When immortality becomes commonplace, would it be ethical to take it? Would cheating death be okay? In regards to an abundant population, how would we deal?

What are your thoughts on immortality? Would you take it? Why?

 

[Oglooger]

no, it's gay.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

What are your thoughts on immortality?

I think it will be a while but I might be able to live to 150

Would you take it?

Yes

Why?

Because I intend on living until the marginal benefit equals the marginal cost. I would commit suicide once that point is met

When immortality becomes commonplace, would it be ethical to take it?

I don't see why not

In regards to an abundant population, how would we deal?

I don't know how the population would be dealt with but I am against any attempt by government to impose a maximum lifespan because that infringes on peoples freedom. I would be OK with giving an additional tax to people who live extremely long lives in order to discourage people from living long lives but still allow those who most value long life to have it.

I don't think that there would be much of a problem though because the main population problem is a high dependency ratio rather than a high population. We might see mass unemployment but we are unlikely to see any real resource shortages. I don't believe that such conditions will lead to positive change for most people but I don't believe that it is something that would be caused by immortality. Probably this will mean that the rich will be immortal but the prices (and possibly taxes) will leave the poor/unemployed still mortal

(also why is there the word genetic in this title)

 

[vertexwindi]

Am conflicted.

It could be nice to live longer than normally possible while still looking and feeling like I do right now, but I imagine there's tons of downsides. Going insane with boredom, for one. Overpopulation would become an even bigger problem, the job market, the house market, economy, etc., all of it would get kinda fucked.

 

[Mesh Gear Fox]

I have absolutely no desire to live forever. I'm fine making it to 70 or so, but after that I'm good to go.

Plus, this researcher is extremely optimistic that this shit will be available in 25 years.

 

[Splendid]

I want to be uploaded into a computer instead.

 

[Petronella]

What are your thoughts on immortality? Would you take it? Why?

Meh, probably not. I don't see it working out from a biological/medical point of view. On the one hand, you'd have someone living 500+ years but aging and deteriorating horribly that whole time; on the other hand, you can try to halt the aging process, but who knows if that's even possible, and if it would be feasible then it likely would bring about health issues of its own. I'm admittedly somewhat biased because of spiritual reasons, but I ultimately believe it's just not really our place to mess around with things like this.

Plus, this researcher is extremely optimistic that this shit will be available in 25 years.

That would be Aubrey de Grey, who has a reputation for being a bit of a fruitloop. Give him a quick Google, it's pretty lulzy.

 

[Joan Nyan]

I want to die some day. Not soon but eventually.

 

[AN/ALR56]

Why not if its available?
After seeing ''The man from the earth'':a tale about a 12 Thousand year old man who lived to this day and tells his tale,i Always dreamed about it.
I want to do so much with my life,there is a lot to see,to experience,just here on Earth.
how about the Wonders that will be available in 100 years,compare the 1916 to 2016,how many people would had loved to see the Wonders we have today.
Still,its beyond us for at least a century,and if we develop a cheap and plenty form of energy generation (Fusion) i believe we can fix anything since all of current problems we face today are afected by energy.
Our Brains have limitless potential,it is a waste to see it decay by old age and die.
Yes i know imortality can be a curse,but also a blessing.
Being imortal and a FTL engine are the discoveries that i don't really hope it will happen in my lifespan,but i sure would love to see it happen.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Still,its beyond us for at least a century,and if we develop a cheap and plenty form of energy generation (Fusion) i believe we can fix anything since all of current problems we face today are afected by energy.

That is not the case at all. Most of out problems are about not knowing how to apply the near limitless energy we have rather than not having enough

 

[Forever Sunrise]

I don't see why anybody could possibly believe that immortality has a downside of any kind. The only issue I'd have was if I was the only person in my circle of friends that got it, and then had to watch them waste away with age while I remained the same. The idea of being bored as an immortal is totally absurd. How long would it take you to read all the books in the world? How long would it take you to watch as the television shows and movies in the world? It is literally impossible to keep up to date with all the new creative content the world produces on a daily basis, so the idea of getting 'bored' as an immortal is quite laughable.

Another factor I think people tend to overlook when they consider the consequences of biological immortality is the lack of urgency that suddenly sets in. Just about every long-term decision people make today is based on the idea that they have a limited amount of time to accomplish their goals in. People are pressured into going straight to college and then university because they'll only have around 20 to 30 years worth of productive time to truly make a career when they get out. If you're immortal, you don't have those constraints. You can take a minimum-wage job and then spend the majority of your free time surfing the internet or reading books at your local library forever. You'll never become unemployable due to health concerns or aging, so your incentives to improve your own education and take on more responsibilities are now motivated solely by your desire for self-improvement.

Furthermore, if you were immortal, then the quality of your life would only improve as time went by - theoretically, at least. The more experience you built up, the more capable you would be of handling new challenges and new fields of learning. Say you spent 300 years studying languages; how fast would you be learning new languages at the 250 mark compared to how fast you started learning them right at the beginning? It would be the same with science, biology, mathematics, etc. Even better, as you became more and more adept, you'd be able to contribute as well as learn from others. You could apply this to any field of learning, with no limitations. If you kept your resume updated and had a good reputation, you could walk into and out of careers at the drop of a hat, with your expertise alone guaranteeing you a position on merit wherever you liked.

These are just a few points I thought might be relevant to this discussion. It's like 7AM, so hopefully this doesn't come across as incoherent.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I don't see why anybody could possibly believe that immortality has a downside of any kind. The only issue I'd have was if I was the only person in my circle of friends that got it, and then had to watch them waste away with age while I remained the same. The idea of being bored as an immortal is totally absurd. How long would it take you to read all the books in the world? How long would it take you to watch as the television shows and movies in the world? It is literally impossible to keep up to date with all the new creative content the world produces on a daily basis, so the idea of getting 'bored' as an immortal is quite laughable.

Another factor I think people tend to overlook when they consider the consequences of biological immortality is the lack of urgency that suddenly sets in. Just about every long-term decision people make today is based on the idea that they have a limited amount of time to accomplish their goals in. People are pressured into going straight to college and then university because they'll only have around 20 to 30 years worth of productive time to truly make a career when they get out. If you're immortal, you don't have those constraints. You can take a minimum-wage job and then spend the majority of your free time surfing the internet or reading books at your local library forever. You'll never become unemployable due to health concerns or aging, so your incentives to improve your own education and take on more responsibilities are now motivated solely by your desire for self-improvement.

Furthermore, if you were immortal, then the quality of your life would only improve as time went by - theoretically, at least. The more experience you built up, the more capable you would be of handling new challenges and new fields of learning. Say you spent 300 years studying languages; how fast would you be learning new languages at the 250 mark compared to how fast you started learning them right at the beginning? It would be the same with science, biology, mathematics, etc. Even better, as you became more and more adept, you'd be able to contribute as well as learn from others. You could apply this to any field of learning, with no limitations. If you kept your resume updated and had a good reputation, you could walk into and out of careers at the drop of a hat, with your expertise alone guaranteeing you a position on merit wherever you liked.

These are just a few points I thought might be relevant to this discussion. It's like 7AM, so hopefully this doesn't come across as incoherent.

I think that an important thing that people don't realize is that likely with immortality it would make someone act like they were 30 forever. Even if they were a healthy 30 year old it is unlikely that they will be as open to new ideas as younger people. As this occurs it will inevitable cause societal stagnation as you could literally have the same person doing the same job for centuries.

I think that the urgency is more driven by the fact that employers wouldn't like to see someone doing nothing for long periods of time rather than due to a concern with mortality. The reason why young people are taking dead end jobs and not going to university as much anymore is likely more because they don't believe that they have a chance to ruin anymore

 

[Mesh Gear Fox]

As this occurs it will inevitable cause societal stagnation as you could literally have the same person doing the same job for centuries.

Exactly. I look forward to retiring some day. I want to spend my golden years up here in the peace and quiet of the mountains. I don't want to work forever. No matter how much one loves their job, you will get tired of it one day.

The idea of being bored as an immortal is totally absurd

Couldn't disagree more. As above, do you want to work forever? At some point I would be bored to tears with everything. Yes, there's a ton of literature and music and so on, but I could easily see getting tired of just all the activities of daily living. The human mind is not designed for immortality. I would seriously worry about someone's sanity after that much time, we're not wired for it. Most people accept their mortality as they age.

Planning for the future and eventual retirement is what drives most people. That's why we go to college, get married, get promotions. It's all for the idea of one day we'll no longer have to work. We'll get to spend our last years (hopefully) comfortable. Without an end game, what motivation is there for any of those things?

Some folks have really rough lives. Some of us suffer from things like depression, bipolar disorder, etc. We've had traumatic events in our lives that we wish we could forget, but can't. These things are a daily struggle. I look forward to one day, not having to deal with these types of issues (ie upon my death). Death is as much a part of life as living itself. Life without death is unnatural.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Exactly. I look forward to retiring some day. I want to spend my golden years up here in the peace and quiet of the mountains. I don't want to work forever. No matter how much one loves their job, you will get tired of it one day.

When that happens then how will you be able to pay for an eternity of retirement. Either you need to own enough equity that you can live off of its interest or you need to have a job. The former is something only a select few can do and would likely have negative effects itself. The latter is also very bad

 

[Oglooger]

And all this immortality shit will only be available to rich fucks who can afford it anyway so they can feel like immortal gods while us normal peasants live up to our 70's.
+

 

[OtterParty]

When that happens then how will you be able to pay for an eternity of retirement. Either you need to own enough equity that you can live off of its interest or you need to have a job. The former is something only a select few can do and would likely have negative effects itself. The latter is also very bad

who let you back in here

 

[Surtur]

Halp, the universe is dying, what do?

 

[Ebola]

If you believe that all that exists is subatomic particles, then technically there are loopholes to live forever. The quanta in QM means everything is quantized, or made of bits, aka pixelated - no different from a vidya game. The fact that you are reading this right now means you beat the odds. It means you're the ultimate winner in evolution and the cosmic lottery. The chances everything went right so you are alive right now are so low that I doubt any of you could begin to comprehend how lucky we are. The thing is this: if such a rare occurrence happened once, it is bound to happen an infinite number of times again due to the nature of existence. In other words, we're all already immortal. Nothing supernatural required - as long as you accept that there is a multiverse that can self-sustain itself.

Halp, the universe is dying, what do?

I'm sorry people rated your post as off topic when it was relevant.

Assuming we live to a point where the universe is degrading too much to exist inside of it, we will be machine-enhanced gods anyway, so:

>create a new universe (theoretically possible)
>travel to another universe (theoretically possible)
>plant the seeds of humanity in another universe (theoretically possible)
>reverse time (may be impossible)
>discover that the universe is self-sustaining (possibility)

I would take the immortality pill because it could easily lead to godhood. There are multiple ways to achieve immortality, so the ethical part of it the debate depends of which method is employed.
As for the whole, "you'll be bored if you live forever," I'm already bored, but it doesn't mean I want to die. Another thing: if you are living in the distant future, there will be a lot more understanding and technology to keep you entertained and happy.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

I want to be uploaded into a computer instead.

I'd live in a matrix-style world. Probably more opportunity to combat boredom if you're in a simulation where you can control a lot of variables.

 

[Strelok]

I'd live in a matrix-style world. Probably more opportunity to combat boredom if you're in a simulation where you can control a lot of variables.

Yeah but then you'd wake up half sunk into the sidewalk because some dipshit couldn't program XYZ coordinates properly.