Bitcoin hits new record of $50,000 -

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TopCat

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Digital currency Bitcoin has risen to a new record high of more than $50,000 (£36,000).

The so-called cryptocurrency, which was created by an unknown inventor, has risen about 72% this year.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are generated by computers. Part of its supposed value comes from the finite number that can be computed.

But regulators have warned that they are risky, since their value can change fast, both downwards and upwards.

Much of this year's gain for Bitcoin came after Elon Musk's Tesla bought $1.5bn of them and said it would accept them as payment for its cars.

Supporters say Bitcoin can act as a store of value, like a digital version of gold.

"If that narrative comes to fruition, then the growth potential is off the charts as $50,000 per bitcoin equates to a market cap of roughly $931bn, which is almost 9% of gold," said John Wu, president at blockchain company Ava Labs.

"If BTC meets gold's market cap, then that would be at least $500,000 per bitcoin."

Unlike other commodities, however, Bitcoin cannot be used for anything else, merely bought and sold. This has made attempts to value it difficult.

Pricing is also susceptible to large swings because of the limited number which are traded. Many supporters are holding on to them in anticipation of higher valuations. Should they all sell at once, the price could tumble.

With no intrinsic value, unlike a physical asset such as land, and no ability to generate an income, unlike a company or bond, cryptocurrencies are extremely volatile and can crash as fast as they rise.

Critics point out that while Bitcoin may have a finite supply of units - 21 million - the number of cryptocurrencies is ever-growing and potentially limitless.

People have lost large amounts of money in steep drops in the value of cryptocurrencies and in hacks and scams associated with them.

Britain's financial watchdog, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), opened 52 investigations into suspected cryptocurrency frauds in the year to 30 June 2020, according to a Freedom of Information request from law firm RPC.

That was fewer than the 59 opened in the previous 12 months, sparking speculation that the regulator was short of resources to tackle cryptocurrency frauds.

"Given explosive growth in high-risk cryptocurrency and related frauds, we would expect the number of FCA investigations to jump up and not fall away," said Sam Tate, partner at RPC.

"The sheen of respectability now being given to cryptocurrencies is being taken advantage of by cyber-criminals and online fraudsters."

The FCA declined to comment on the figures.

Bitcoin's value dropped by $5,000 on 4 January to about $29,000 before recovering the lost ground. On 11 Jan, it dropped $9,000 to $32,000.

Because cryptocurrencies can pass international borders quickly and are not regulated in the same way as cash or regular investments, investigating thefts is hard.

Last month, the FCA issued a stark warning to investors in so-called cryptoassets.

The financial watchdog said investors should be "prepared to lose all their money" should their investment's value collapse.

 

Lady Adjani

not actually a lady
kiwifarms.net
With no intrinsic value, unlike a physical asset such as land, and no ability to generate an income, unlike a company or bond, cryptocurrencies are extremely volatile and can crash as fast as they rise.

Couldn't you say the same about paper money? Yeah it's backed by gold, but it only has value because we've agreed to use it as a means of exchange.
 

Pyre

Feeling very toasty
kiwifarms.net
When the crash finally comes it will be absolutely devastating.
Couldn't you say the same about paper money? Yeah it's backed by gold, but it only has value because we've agreed to use it as a means of exchange.
The U.S. Dollar hasn't been backed by gold for nearly a century. The Dollar maintains its value through mutual, international agreement that it's a valuable currency. It's also the world's backup currency so it has value based on that fact as well. "Backed by the U.S. government," The most powerful political, military, and economic entity in the world. Difference with Bitcoin is that Bitcoin isn't backed by anything. It's an entirely artificial currency with value based solely on individual investment.
 

pitawilson

Fuckin' Poison Ivy all over!
kiwifarms.net
When the crash finally comes it will be absolutely devastating.

The U.S. Dollar hasn't been backed by gold for nearly a century. The Dollar maintains its value through mutual, international agreement that it's a valuable currency. It's also the world's backup currency so it has value based on that fact as well. "Backed by the U.S. government," The most powerful political, military, and economic entity in the world. Difference with Bitcoin is that Bitcoin isn't backed by anything. It's an entirely artificial currency with value based solely on individual investment.
That is pretty much how all currencies work. There's no actual intrinsic value in currency, it's all in our heads.
 

HOMO FOR LIFE

flaunting her autism like a title of nobility
kiwifarms.net
Utility of Bitcoin is not much different than gold but gold there are uses for it and has been so for centuries. Bitcoin is an unproven concept based on scarcity and limited supplies. I can basically say fucking beanie doll is a Bitcoin and it will have same concept as Bitcoin. Only good thing about Bitcoin is it is digital and can be distributed but hard to exchange... Basically a bad storage of value in the long run.
 

troon patrol

Only here because rehab kicked me out
kiwifarms.net
Currency you can use it to exchange good widely including cash. Crypto you can't. Also fee for using it is high and it is slow as fuck.

Miami Florida is in talks to use it to pay all city employees, more importantly the bigger financial institutions are accepting it normalizing it, investing in it. Mastercard is getting onboard.
mastercard joins BTC
 

HOMO FOR LIFE

flaunting her autism like a title of nobility
kiwifarms.net
Miami Florida is in talks to use it to pay all city employees, more importantly the bigger financial institutions are accepting it normalizing it, investing in it. Mastercard is getting onboard.
mastercard joins BTC
MasterCard is joining crypto and not necessarily a BTC. Bigger financial institution jumping in is precisely when everyone should bail out.
 

troon patrol

Only here because rehab kicked me out
kiwifarms.net
Normalized to what? There is no fundamental to Bitcoin except demand.
Normalized to common use more liquid and more accessible. In example, last month I walked into a shitty little convenience store and saw a crypto atm . You haven't explained why now is the time to leave, I would genuinely like to hear this.
 

HOMO FOR LIFE

flaunting her autism like a title of nobility
kiwifarms.net
Normalized to common use more liquid and more accessible. In example, last month I walked into a shitty little convenience store and saw a crypto atm . You haven't explained why now is the time to leave, I would genuinely like to hear this.
Why is it ever time to enter except to say bitcoin is a legal way to pump and dump your money? I see it as a highly sophiscated pyramid scam since it has no fundamental value.

I am in it for the rising evaluation. Its never going to be a long term investment. Its a long term speculation.
 

TowinKarz

Feeling Run Down
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Couldn't you say the same about paper money? Yeah it's backed by gold, but it only has value because we've agreed to use it as a means of exchange.

As @Pyre said, US Dollars aren't backed by gold anymore, and I don't know of any major first-world currency that is.

It's only value is that which the consumer has in it.

And the fact that the US Govt. is a lender-of-last resort likely to BE there in some form even in the event of global cataclysm.

Bitcoin is just a medium that a group of people have agreed upon as being a currency, some have made a lot of money on it's speculation, some mainstream places even take it, Bully for them.

But, there is no lender-of-last resort on it, so, you're taking a chance that if something wipes the financial world to the point that the 99%-agreed-upon currency is now worthless, what makes you think your niche' one is going to be accepted by anyone outside the niche'?

Just like we used to ask of the gold hoarders who talked about the supposed "real value" in precious metal - in a disaster, a true disaster, who is going to trade you FOOD for shiny coins? Well, whose gonna trade for virtual shiny eCoins that don't even physically exist? At least you could use a gold coin to level out an uneven coffee table.

Naturally, the response to this is to just keep promoting BTC until it reaches the same level of trustworthiness, but I'm not seeing it due to the fact it doesn't have L of LR protection as an integral part of it from the start. If your economy goes bad, you know where your Government is, and whether at fault or not, they're likely to respond to demands for redress more easily and are more likely to respond at all than just howling into the internet if your bitcoin disappears or something.

Like if EMP nukes the hard drives tomorrow, what are you going to do to get your bitcoin back? At least I have documented records of how much cash was in my account and the FDIC says they'd cover it.
 
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knobslobbin

survivorship bias
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
My prediction: Sept 2021 btc moons but as ppl rush to cash in driven by rampant speculation and FOMO another fee crisis hits and the mempool explodes tanking the price and crashing the price for years. Meanwhile eth and bch are the big winners on the fall of bitcoin.

To add insult to injury President Kamala issues an EO taxing crypto losses.
 

HOMO FOR LIFE

flaunting her autism like a title of nobility
kiwifarms.net
As @Pyre said, US Dollars aren't backed by gold anymore, and I don't know of any major first-world currency that is.

It's only value is that which the consumer has in it.

And the fact that the US Govt. is a lender-of-last resort likely to BE there in some form even in the event of global cataclysm.

Bitcoin is just a medium that a group of people have agreed upon as being a currency, but, there is no lender-of-last resort on it, so, you're taking a chance that if something wipes the financial world to the point that the 99%-agreed-upon currency is now worthless, what makes you think your niche' one is going to be accepted by anyone outside the niche'?

Naturally, the response to this is to just keep promoting BTC until it reaches the same level of trustworthiness, but I'm not seeing it due to the fact it doesn't have L of LR protection as an integral part of it from the start. If your economy goes bad, you know where your Government is, right or wrong, you can demand a redress from more easily and are more likely to get a response than just howling into the internet if your bitcoin disappears or something.
Value of fiat currency exists in relative value to goods created by the industry.

Yes, fiat does have value.

The problem with this dynamic is that when you go MONEY PRINTER GO BRRRR, you have created greater supply of currency in relative to the goods created by the nation.

Hence the crazy trade deficit that western nations is facing right now. Companies are paying premium to ship the goods from China and with Corona lockdown, production is way down but the demand is the same. This whole dynamic makes sense short term but in the long run, you just leveraged the future of nation in IOU. Bacially the entire world leveraged the survival of their economy on the ability of China to produce their goods for them.

This is fucking pathetic.
 

Ghost In The Rain

I'll die before I surrender, Tim.
kiwifarms.net
Value of fiat currency exists in relative value to goods created by the industry.

Yes, fiat does have value.

The problem with this dynamic is that when you go MONEY PRINTER GO BRRRR, you have created greater supply of currency in relative to the goods created by the nation.

Hence the crazy trade deficit that western nations is facing right now. Companies are paying premium to ship the goods from China and with Corona lockdown, production is way down but the demand is the same. This whole dynamic makes sense short term but in the long run, you just leveraged the future of nation in IOU. Bacially the entire world leveraged the survival of their economy on the ability of China to produce their goods for them.

This is fucking pathetic.

Wouldn't the value of the fiat currency going down be a good thing when the nation, the average person, and in fact as far as anyone can tell the entire earth is in debt in that currency?

Look at the collapse from the most extreme not-going-to-happen possibility: Suppose the US govt decided tomorrow to order the printing of a $100 trillion dollars of stimulus to be given to each and every citizen of the US. That IOU that we owe to china is going to be really fucking easy to pay in that world, isn't it? National debt is erased, all debts that are tendered in US dollars are effectively erased. Savings are too, and the currency is effectively dead, but so what? The farmland still will grow crops, the factories that exist will still exist.

I recall it coming up in conversations of UK versus EU currencies from time to time where I will see someone stating that the value of a currency going down is a bad thing due to trade and then a paragraph later stating that the value of a currency going up is a bad thing due to trade. Honestly I'm starting to think that no one actually understands economics at all and the entire thing, the whole world economy, is a cargo cult that works on blind faith. That would explain why crypto works so well with it.

Heck, the 'crazy trade deficit' thing: how is that bad? You're telling me that we have more actual physical goods going to us than away from us and that for some reason that is bad. Why would that be bad, we're getting stuff and they're getting an IOU that will never be paid, or if it is paid it'll be paid when it is worth a tiny fraction of what it is right now, and in the meantime we have all this stuff. Why would they even agree to this? Have they not read the parts of history pertaining to trade deals with westerners? They don't go well for the non-westerners: get paid in tangible, useful goods up front or you will get screwed.
 

HOMO FOR LIFE

flaunting her autism like a title of nobility
kiwifarms.net
Wouldn't the value of the fiat currency going down be a good thing when the nation, the average person, and in fact as far as anyone can tell the entire earth is in debt in that currency?

Look at the collapse from the most extreme not-going-to-happen possibility: Suppose the US govt decided tomorrow to order the printing of a $100 trillion dollars of stimulus to be given to each and every citizen of the US. That IOU that we owe to china is going to be really fucking easy to pay in that world, isn't it? National debt is erased, all debts that are tendered in US dollars are effectively erased. Savings are too, and the currency is effectively dead, but so what? The farmland still will grow crops, the factories that exist will still exist.

I recall it coming up in conversations of UK versus EU currencies from time to time where I will see someone stating that the value of a currency going down is a bad thing due to trade and then a paragraph later stating that the value of a currency going up is a bad thing due to trade. Honestly I'm starting to think that no one actually understands economics at all and the entire thing, the whole world economy, is a cargo cult that works on blind faith. That would explain why crypto works so well with it.

Heck, the 'crazy trade deficit' thing: how is that bad? You're telling me that we have more actual physical goods going to us than away from us and that for some reason that is bad. Why would that be bad, we're getting stuff and they're getting an IOU that will never be paid, or if it is paid it'll be paid when it is worth a tiny fraction of what it is right now, and in the meantime we have all this stuff. Why would they even agree to this? Have they not read the parts of history pertaining to trade deals with westerners? They don't go well for the non-westerners: get paid in tangible, useful goods up front or you will get screwed.
A) the main goal of the current inflationary policy is to inflate away the debt just like during WWII.

One small problem. USA is no longer a manufacturing nation with trade surplus and roboust industrial output and export. We are mainly an importer. Even if we inflate our currency, unlike post-ww2, OUR TAX INCOME
WILL NOT INFLATE WITH IT.

B) if you inflate your currency to a point where the world no longer recognizes it as world currency reserve, why should anyone want to trade with USA and take their IOU?

Think for a second. Why should anyone take American currency in exchange for good if they know that America's intention is to deflate its value?

C) inflating your economy comes with several problems that you have not addressed. One is income stability. Income lags behind the inflation. Always. Second is pension. Pensioners receive set amount of money per month and annually. Inflating economy erodes purchasing power of these individuals that rely on stable currency. This will eventually lead to SEVERE homeless problem among the elderly and more.

D) trade deficit is not at all the worst thing in the world but simply a reflection of noncompetitive nature of American economy in general against China.

And finally, the debt.

We are currently living in the one of the lowest rate environment in the history of america. Should our economy "recover," ask yourself. Do you think we will ever increase the rate to "normality?" The answer is no. And if we do, the collapse of american economy is a guarantee. Nay, the world, because everyone is abusing modern monetary policy to a point where endgame is "you will own nothing and you will like it."

Finally, deflating our currency has several effects. One is inflated value of assets like stocks and real estate where your "money" will hold their value. They are inflated through, again, IOU.

Let's be real. Our economy is not real. We have misallocated trillions of capital in assets that does not produce any good. A healthy economy will undergo natural cycle of crash and recession, deflate these inflated assets, and reallocate our capital towards productive assets that creates goods and value to economy.

It doesn't right now. And that is not changing anytime soon.


That is why I am heavy on mining and extraction assets. They produce things. And they will continue to produce things through inflationary period.
 
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