Borderlands (1, 2, 3, The Pre-Sequel, TftB) -

[U 'MIRIN BRAH?]

Maybe its fitting its me that sort of necros the thread but I gotta ask.

Does anyone honestly gives a shit about Borderlands 3? Im replaying B2 and TPS with a close friend of mine and we are having a blast and we do intend on playing Tales (or rather me while I stream it from the PS4) and then we intend to get Borderlands 3 just for the sake of some closure and because he wants to experience B3 himself before "Passing any judgement" even if Im warning him that "its not very gooood...."

Borderlands 3 feels such lackluster finale for a trilogy that started off a bit meh but really gained traction with time (mostly given the amazing writing from 2 and some of the Presequel and tales). I legit dont want to hate 3, I really dont. But everything in 3 just feels like a constant slap in the face, especially since we invested so much in these universe and characters. It kind of feels like nothing has any payoff and payoffs we do have feel like playing second fiddle to what they DO have.

The new villains are okay-ish at best and cringy at worst. Dont come close to Handsome Jack...and look, I didnt expect them to do so but I also didnt expect them to make my eye roll so many times. They are basically cultist mixed with obnoxious livestreamers (like mixing piss with turds).

The gameplay was fun but its hard to improve on a cycle of gameplay so simple and yet satisfying.

And one must wonder, what is there to really explore with further sequels? The series feels kind of done, doesnt it? There isnt demands for B4 because B3 kind of killed all interest we had in it.

I wonder if Gearbox is aware of that and that they have argurably killed the last franchise people cared about from their catalog.

I split screened the shit out of 2 with the gf, uvhm/op8, dlc, the whole shebang, even had fun with one normal playthrough of TPS. Made the mistake of buying BL3 on Xbox one and we've not even finished the first run through in the 2 months or so we've had it. I basically tune out for all of the dialogue because the villains are some cringy faggory, and the gameplay itself is decent. Can't stand playing at maximum 20 fps though, utter dogshit performance.

Might start another run of TPS next time we're looking for something to do.

 

[The handsome tard]

I split screened the shit out of 2 with the gf, uvhm/op8, dlc, the whole shebang, even had fun with one normal playthrough of TPS. Made the mistake of buying BL3 on Xbox one and we've not even finished the first run through in the 2 months or so we've had it. I basically tune out for all of the dialogue because the villains are some cringy faggory, and the gameplay itself is decent. Can't stand playing at maximum 20 fps though, utter dogshit performance.

Might start another run of TPS next time we're looking for something to do.

Ironically I feel like B3 oozes of franchise fatigue even tho, for all we have, the franchise didnt go that long like something like Assassin's Creed or something of the sort.

We only technically have 4 major entries (yes, the pre-sequel counts technically) and a spin off. I know some smart ass will mention some obscure entry that its their favorite game of all time but to that teorical person, I can only say..."good for you".

Anyway, its not like B3 didnt have amazing setups with what B2, TPS and Tales have teased with some sort of major and even galactic scale conflict with some sort of ancient enemy that is somehow related to the vaults, sirens and the Eridians. We were promised a war and in the end we got cringy livestreamers...I know some people will defend this saying that this isnt the conflict that the watcher has warned us about but why have so much setup and then NOT pick up on nearly any of it? And then throw their hands up and say "dont worry, the payoff is still going to happen...someday"...aka, never since I personally doubt we will see B4 anytime soon (if at all, Gearbox isnt in the best shape finantially).

Spoiler: 'tism wall of text of me trying to make B3's crappy setups make sense.

People kind of say that borderlands is shit when it tries to take itself serious and I agree when that applies to 3, I say that B2, TPS and Tales had a healthy mixture of comedy and still reminding of whats at stake. The reason 3 disappoints me so much is because it doesnt itself seriously and when it does, its utter crap.

An example of mine is if B3 had the writing that B2/TPS/Tales had, Ava would be setup as a villain in the making (seriously, just have the cringy livestreamer influence her to the dark side and Ava goes along with it, not only it will make sense given her awful arrogant personality so we have an excuse to kick her ass and Maya go all "I have failed you, Anakin, I have failed you", which would grow her character so much in my eyes) , be give a redemption arc that doesnt involve Maya's death (they could have her being put in a near death coma state thanks to her Siren powers just barely keeping her alive or something and one of the DLCs is about getting her to wake up, maybe with Krieg finally showing up since it will feel fitting he is involved in saving the "beauty" to his "beast") or she would be Leroy Jenkin-ed at some point (its her that gets dusted as we all Im sure wanted to see instead, not only that will show the villains mean business to the point they will gladly murder a child but Maya will be starving for revenge and possibly start to go into a dark place her friends will need to stop her from going towards).

See? Its simple, Im not angry at Ava's setup but rather at her execution because she gets all that she wants. The way competent writing works is that Ava wants to be a siren right? Then she will either have to earn it or this desire will swallow her, leading into her death or fall into the dark side. And you can usually tell which one will be given how the character act (of course there are exceptions and subversions). The way Ava acted setup her to have her arrogance either blow up right on her face (leading to her redemption or death) or have her swallowed by said arrogance (leading to her becoming a villain).

I guess its "my fault" for seeing so much potential in these characters and lore, am I right? I think thats my problem with changing writers and just saying for them to get loose and do whatever. Its good to have creative freedom, yes but give them goals like giving payoffs to what was setup before is such an obvious thing to do...but I legit dont think they played much of the previous games at all, just enough to know some of the characters and thats it.

Welp this post went on for longer than I thought, sorry for that, mates.

 

[R.A.E.L.]

I don't hate or dislike 3, but it was a fuckton of wasted potential in pretty much every department. The Calypso twins in particular could've been so much better. (Remember those data mines I posted a while back?) Most positive thing I can say is that the music is good but story and character-wise it's just like, dude, really? I haven't bothered with the DLC.

 

[Dr. Troon Lagoon]

Does anyone honestly gives a shit about Borderlands 3?

On Steam it seems to be sitting rather pretty, but then again it has been diluted for mass appeal. For you, me, my gaming buddies/family members = really do not give a shit. We could not get ourselves to finish it properly, I just had some video rundowns of it.

Like everyone after you mentioned 1) the story is god-awful with the retcons and propping up of unlikable new characters, while mistreating the old cast; 2) the zany jokes from the first game which seemed more naturally fitting where already being strained to contrivance to some degree in BL2 and TPS suffered under it with the B-Team Development Team and 3) to top it off with generic and bland new Vault hunters, which is an achievement compared to BL1 where the vault hunters were veeeery basic before being more fleshed out in BL2.

Also the tutorial start is STILL NOT skippable after the first playthrough, why Gearbox, you fucking stupid Apes.

TPS
TPS got shat on, even if it was actually fine for the shameless fan-pandering creation that it was, in my eyes it suffered from not being developed by the original team. They should have done more quality control with the story and the pacing, which was god-awful at times often due the ridiculous large maps with nothing to see. Come on, it's an alternative crazy sci-fi universe, ditch the Earth Moon look, you could have gone with a crazy vibrant looking satellite, because MUH DOWN UNDER theme joke.
Everyone hated Pickle, and the rainbow pandering was absolute gar-bage. Also having to wait for their excruciatingly shit voice over narration, before being able to proceed at times made it that much worse. FUCK YOU PICKLE!

The Vault hunters? Pretty solid, their narration was fun, their kits were fun and so where their characters. To me, among others, Aurelia's lines are still memorable to me ("Unleash the Dogs of Affluence", "You'll just die, tired and frozen"). Probably why I dislike the BL3 Vault hunters, they are bland as fuck. The Claptastic Voyage was great.

It would be repayable for me if the god damn tutorial start would be skippable. Again, Gearbox, you troglodytes. Fuck you Pickle.

BL2
Yeah pretty good, although me and my friends could not give a shit about the Badass levels and grinding thousands of times for the super rare weapons by having to do retarded shit like getting certain enemies to level up. It is a casual coop shooter, not WOW-tier MMORPG autism shit, why be stingy with the drop rates? Good set-up for a sequel, nice emotional investment while keeping the levity.

------
BL3 was a let down with the antagonists, the lack of ability by the narrative team to provide an interesting story and humour that does not feel forced and by the numbers, bland Vault Hunters, and fucking over multiple established characters. They did Maya and Aurelia really dirty, so I was more than happy that I got their game for a fraction of the price. Bunch of cocksuckers.
The TPS ending teased that "they would need all the help they would get", they could have made a fuck ton of money by releasing some of the old Vault Hunters as DLC to join the fight.

 

[The handsome tard]

I'd argue that they didn't realise how badly they fucked up by killing all the characters everyone loves and trying to make the narrative about Ava, given their surprise that Ava wasn't more well-received.

No one gives a shit about Ava. EVERYONE liked Maya. Everyone likes Krieg, but his DLC was lame. People want more Fiona so instead, let's just bring in Rhys and Vaugn and "what do you mean you wanna see more Tales characters?" No no no, the rest of the story will be Ava-centric because everyone loves her, right?

I think things like this are both thanks to the writing behind the B2 vault hunters, their personalities and actions. A lot of them had an arc or at least a damn nice personality to go along with it

Maya was used for most of her life so she is seeking to learn more about sirens and gain indepedence.
Krieg was experimented and pretty much turned into a psycho monster with his sanity still inside his head somewhere and aparently it was setup Maya's siren powers were the only thing that could possibly revert this. This obviously has no payoff even if B3 was meant to be set years after 2, at most we get some echo logs with these two.

The vault hunters from 2 just felt so separated, in 2 the B1 vault hunters clearly were buddies at this point. In 3, you dont have almost any scene with the B2 vault hunters meeting and working together like old times. No scenes with Salvator shouting for you to "GET DOWN OR DROP DEAD" as he starts Gunzerking. You can replace the B2 vault hunters with any other character and most of the impact is unchanged.

They made them generic and I hate that. Especially we were promised some sort of Infinity War type event with both old and new Vault Hunters working together against a common enemy so powerful it possibly wiped out the eridians (which lets face it, sounds fucking awesome)

 

[StraightShooter2]

I bought Borderlands 2 on a Steam sale which including all of the DLC for about $50. So far I'm enjoying it. The only thing that's annoying is that it seems that you can't leave it connected to the network and choose to accept/deny requests to join your game - when it's connected to the network, anyone can join your game without any restrictions.

Also (unless I missed something) - there's no level-scaling, so even though you can revisit old areas and re-fight the enemies/bosses, you'll probably be overpowered, and the loot drops usually stay low-level as well.

 

[The handsome tard]

You know, Im replaying the Pre-sequel and I noticed how much fun it makes of SJWs before there were even a thing.

There is one side quest giver who is clearly meant to be your "progressive revolutionary" type. She tells you that her movement wants to protect a near extinct species called "cuties" from the awful evil companies shitting up their enviroment. The girl that gave you the quest says for you to gladly kill any humans on your way, in fact, she demonstrates disturbing enjoyment from it. When its revealed the "cuties" are grotestic Torks, she changes her stance completely and shouts for to slaughter them like a psychopath. After that she basically says "Job well done, guys! I feel like I have truly made a difference!" and any other missions with them remind you constantly that these people are sheltered, probably have no idea of what they are actually fighting for and dont care to know, live a previleged lifestyle and are prone to go into psychotic episodes once their self rightious mask slips off.

Its surprisingly how much of this shit already existed before the term SJW even existed and how much you were allowed to make fun of them.

Seriously, that shows The Pre-sequel has more guts than Borderlands 3. I dont think most mainstream games have the guts to make fun of "progressive" types because these people are usually the devs of the games.

Surprised Im not seeing articles on how the Pre-sequel dehumanizes them or some shit like that.

I bought Borderlands 2 on a Steam sale which including all of the DLC for about $50. So far I'm enjoying it. The only thing that's annoying is that it seems that you can't leave it connected to the network and choose to accept/deny requests to join your game - when it's connected to the network, anyone can join your game without any restrictions.

Also (unless I missed something) - there's no level-scaling, so even though you can revisit old areas and re-fight the enemies/bosses, you'll probably be overpowered, and the loot drops usually stay low-level as well.

Well, you can easily remove people from your game if you dont want them (and I think you can block them too), if you left the settings at public, its basically a free for all in that case.

And there is no level scaling but once you complete the main quest, you unlock new game plus modes where old areas have been level scaled to your current level. It requires you finishing the main story, yes, but level scaling technically does exist in the game.

 

[Solid Snek]

I liked 3.

It's my least favorite favorite BL in a long time. Don't know if I'd say it's the bottom of my list, but it might be slightly worse in some areas than BL1, and definitely held my interest less than BL2 and PS.

Its surprisingly how much of this shit already existed before the term SJW even existed and how much you were allowed to make fun of them.

They existed back then. One of the first people I heard use the term "SJW" to describe themselves was Ash Burch (Tiny Tina), but you're right, there has definitely been a shift away from the more libertarian, self-depreciating, open-minded anarchy of "old Borderlands", and the watered-down preachiness of "new". It's still not a horrible game by any means, and I wouldn't go so far as to call BL3 SJW, but - like, that armor quest in the Bunkers & Badasses DLC? Where you can choose whether to give Ellie a practial suit of armor or a sexy chainmail bikini, and she loves either one? With funny dialogue that doesn't pick sides or judge you either way? Nothing like that left in BL3.

We are living through an age where the most powerful culture creators have sold their souls to authoritarianism. Weimar is over; No Fun Allowed is now the root of their zeitgeist.

Also (unless I missed something) - there's no level-scaling, so even though you can revisit old areas and re-fight the enemies/bosses, you'll probably be overpowered, and the loot drops usually stay low-level as well.

It's been awhile since I ran through BL2, but I think once you finish the main campaign, you can re-scale everything with a NG+.

The vault hunters from 2 just felt so separated, in 2 the B1 vault hunters clearly were buddies at this point. In 3, you dont have almost any scene with the B2 vault hunters meeting and working together like old times. No scenes with Salvator shouting for you to "GET DOWN OR DROP DEAD" as he starts Gunzerking. You can replace the B2 vault hunters with any other character and most of the impact is unchanged.

They made them generic and I hate that. Especially we were promised some sort of Infinity War type event with both old and new Vault Hunters working together against a common enemy so powerful it possibly wiped out the eridians (which lets face it, sounds fucking awesome)

Yeah, I was legit depressed when Gaige came back- not as a mercenary, or the warlord of a robot planet, or some half-cyborg Valkyrie assassin, teamed up with Krieg and Salvador and on the run from Space Google, but as a wedding planner. Hurrdurrdurr funny funny how unexpected and out of character hahaha, but maaaannnnn - it's been three additional games now, and you won't fuckers won't stop pushing Lilith as the Slay Queen At The Center of the Universe. But Gaige? Nahh, Gaige will be written off as some lame joke, completely divorced from every other character and storyline save (just one of) Hammerlock's. ffs, I would have rather they just killed her off, John Connors style. I would have been pissed, sure, but I'd take a bitchmade death scene that at least gives Gaige some closure, over seeing Gaige turned into a useless wallflower by whatever hacks were in charge of BL3.



The fact that all the new Vault Hunters except that Jacksepticeye dude were boring as shit didn't help matters. Plus, we had to suffer through more "Lillith is Poochy, isn't she great, let's all focus on Lilith now!" nonsense than ever before, while meanwhile the (criminally unplayable) Tina and her "B"-Team (hurdur, B-Team, fuck you) - who were the only supporting characters I actually liked, besides Claptrap and whatsherface, the emo teenager everybody else hated - they only get a couple quests. HEY, REMEMBER THIS THING YOU LIKE. FUCK YOU, LOOK AT LILITH AND TANIS INSTEAD, THEY'RE MORE IMPORTANT.

...

Sorry, I don't mean to vent, but so much of BL3 pissed me off. I finished it, yeah, and I don't regret buying it. But it's been the only Borderlands so far that I haven't been able to run through more than once with any additional characters. (I played the intro with everyone, and started to try and slog through the Mecha suit girl's campaign, but Jesus. Neat character design, ok-to-crappy powers, BORING dialogue. blaaahhhhh)

 

[Agent Nahman Jayden]

Nothing like saying "I like 3" at the very beginning then several meaty paragraphs later it ends with "sorry, it just pisses me off so much" lol

You know, Im replaying the Pre-sequel and I noticed how much fun it makes of SJWs before there were even a thing.

There is one side quest giver who is clearly meant to be your "progressive revolutionary" type. She tells you that her movement wants to protect a near extinct species called "cuties" from the awful evil companies shitting up their enviroment. The girl that gave you the quest says for you to gladly kill any humans on your way, in fact, she demonstrates disturbing enjoyment from it. When its revealed the "cuties" are grotestic Torks, she changes her stance completely and shouts for to slaughter them like a psychopath. After that she basically says "Job well done, guys! I feel like I have truly made a difference!" and any other missions with them remind you constantly that these people are sheltered, probably have no idea of what they are actually fighting for and dont care to know, live a previleged lifestyle and are prone to go into psychotic episodes once their self rightious mask slips off.

Its surprisingly how much of this shit already existed before the term SJW even existed and how much you were allowed to make fun of them.

This is also the same game that had Torgue go on a mini-tangent about "friendzoned" is an "imaginary, misogynistic term" and a girl's entire character was "I like machines and I'm gay. Have I mentioned I'm gay?" I wouldn't give them TOO much credit

 

[StraightShooter2]

Also, the game is too easy, since when you die and respawn, all of the enemies you killed up until that point are still gone - example, if your fighting a boss and kill all of his minions, and are then killed by the boss itself, you'll have your HP and ammo restored, and while the boss' health will be restored, all of the minions you killed will be dead, so you can basically die over and over with very little penalty (besides money loss).

 

[Solid Snek]

Nothing like saying "I like 3" at the very beginning then several meaty paragraphs later it ends with "sorry, it just pisses me off so much" lol

Well, yeah. But...

3 is like my grandma. Love her a lot, cherish the time I spent with her, but holy shit she's annoying.

Aside from the crappy Vault Hunters, boring voice lines, tedious levels, the annoying plot that makes me feel like a pack mule character watching the DM's favorite NPC save the day, the failure to properly utilize beloved characters from previous games, the lack of humor, personality, and warmth that made the previous titles so comfy, the fact that a couple of my favorite characters got Fan Fic'd so hard that I almost kind of hate them now, the forgettable villains, the baffling lack of low-gravity gameplay options (I'm on a spaceship, flying to OTHER PLANETS; why are they all the same shit?!), all those crappy NPCs from TftB that I don't care about, the even crappier new NPCs that I forgot about until just now (like that troon goliath), the dumb weapon modifiers, uninteresting powers, and the shitty storage box - aside from all that, I actually really did like it.

 

[BillionBisonBucks]

Does anyone else remember the serious bits? Tanis' degrading sanity and Pierce's loss of her arm are played absolutely straight as the kind of fucked up shit that happens on Pandora. BL2 even started out strong, with everyone studiously not mentioning the drug addicted super-powered elephant in the room, but then it seems they lost their stomach for the effort involved when one-liners are just so easy.

 

[Burning Bridge]

Aside from everything else wrong with Borderlands 3, there's no reason to grind it out. Once you beat TVHM, there's no reason to continue playing. Mayhem is a poor version of OP even if the mods are somewhat interesting and there's no raid bosses to go up against.

 

[Pissmaster]

Well, yeah. But...

3 is like my grandma. Love her a lot, cherish the time I spent with her, but holy shit she's annoying.

Aside from the crappy Vault Hunters, boring voice lines, tedious levels, the annoying plot that makes me feel like a pack mule character watching the DM's favorite NPC save the day, the failure to properly utilize beloved characters from previous games, the lack of humor, personality, and warmth that made the previous titles so comfy, the fact that a couple of my favorite characters got Fan Fic'd so hard that I almost kind of hate them now, the forgettable villains, the baffling lack of low-gravity gameplay options (I'm on a spaceship, flying to OTHER PLANETS; why are they all the same shit?!), all those crappy NPCs from TftB that I don't care about, the even crappier new NPCs that I forgot about until just now (like that troon goliath), the dumb weapon modifiers, uninteresting powers, and the shitty storage box - aside from all that, I actually really did like it.

The only game I've ever played where I could write a complaint list that long but still say I liked the game was Disgaea 3, and that's because the gameplay itself was satisfying, but that's about it. Good maps, good puzzles, abysmal story, but it was the newest Disgaea game on a portable when I played it.

You must really love Borderlands' gameplay to put up with that much shit and still have fun

 

[Solid Snek]

The only game I've ever played where I could write a complaint list that long but still say I liked the game was Disgaea 3, and that's because the gameplay itself was satisfying, but that's about it. Good maps, good puzzles, abysmal story, but it was the newest Disgaea game on a portable when I played it.

You must really love Borderlands' gameplay to put up with that much shit and still have fun

Well, there's a fun part where Ava yells that she's going to kick a dude's dick off.

And there's a side mission where you kill yourself! Which, granted, was an idea already done in previous Borderlands games, and done better back then too. But. Y'know. You can kill yourself.

The gameplay is fine; I like the autism of shooting stuff and getting loot - or, rather, shooting stuff and passing up loot, because it's really not worth cluttering up your inventory when you've got that one Orange pistol that shoots lightning and fireballs (the DPS is so broken that I was still using a Lvl28 version against Lvl50 bosses). Also, I can pretend that I'm playing Borderlands 2 again.

 

[The handsome tard]

Well, there's a fun part where Ava yells that she's going to kick a dude's dick off.

And there's a side mission where you kill yourself! Which, granted, was an idea already done in previous Borderlands games, and done better back then too. But. Y'know. You can kill yourself.

The gameplay is fine; I like the autism of shooting stuff and getting loot - or, rather, shooting stuff and passing up loot, because it's really not worth cluttering up your inventory when you've got that one Orange pistol that shoots lightning and fireballs (the DPS is so broken that I was still using a Lvl28 version against Lvl50 bosses). Also, I can pretend that I'm playing Borderlands 2 again.

The suicide mission in B2 had more going to it than it simply being "lol, you can off yourself!". Handsome Jack basically is challenging you to become his bitch. He wants you DEAD but by his hand and the warrior's so this is him just wishing to humiliate you first, this shit is personal but he wants to still have some fun with his prey.

So basically, do you become HJ's bitch for finantial gain or get called a pussy by Hyperion's suicide hotline for not being his whore?

 

[Solid Snek]

The suicide mission in B2 had more going to it than it simply being "lol, you can off yourself!". Handsome Jack basically is challenging you to become his bitch. He wants you DEAD but by his hand and the warrior's so this is him just wishing to humiliate you first, this shit is personal but he wants to still have some fun with his prey.

So basically, do you become HJ's bitch for finantial gain or get called a pussy by Hyperion's suicide hotline for not being his whore?

One thing I never really got about BL3 was what the writers' vision was for the Youtube Twins. It seemed like they were trying to recapture the magic of Handsome Jack... but, for whatever reason, it never really clicked. Some of the elements were there, but either they weren't put together correctly, or they'd be done already so it just made you miss the stuff Handsome Jack did.

I think part of the problem was that the Youtube Twins didn't really seem like a credible threat; they were a good concept for a stage boss, but not the Main Badguy.

Jack was this sociopathic gigachad that you couldn't help loving to hate. He was cooler than you, richer than you, handsomer than you; he was the Hero of the game, a Hero who murdered people in cold blood and threw tantrums like a spoiled California child, and he was going to stomp you out like Big Tech stomping out freedom of speech. It was almost like the writers of BL2 were deliberately making Jack into a Mary Sue (a trope everybody hates), so that he'd be easier to dislike. Everybody hates a winner, and Handsome Jack goes a step further by giving you legitimate reasons to hate that winner.

But the Youtube Twins? I dunno. They were "popular kids", too - Tiktok stars, Twitch streamers, Millennials who put "social influencer" down on their resume. That could be a funny and annoying gimmick too, sure. But the Twins never really seemed like gigachads. They never seemed "authentically cool", like some Hollywood superstar, or the bodybuilder who shows up at the beach and kicks sand in your face - someone that YOU hate, but you also know that NPCs and idiots love. No, instead, the Twins were like Jake and Logan Paul - goofy jobbers. Yeah, they're popular, sort of, but they're popular for all the wrong reasons. People think they're numbskulls; you tune in to their videos to laugh at how clueless they are.

iirc, the BL3 suicide mission had Handsomette Black insulting you too ("gunslut", I think she calls you?), but it doesn't feel as personal and biting as Jack's humiliations. Just kinda feels like, I dunno, a casual findom session with a sassy chick who's trying her best, but - eh? And then there was the death of Maya, which was CLEARLY meant to recapture the drama of Jack killing Roland. That didn't really work either, though, because one, I saw it coming from a mile away, two, Emo Onision is even less threatening than his sister and had nowhere near the credibility Jack did by that point in the story, and three, even if I didn't see it coming, my first reaction was oh yeah, I remember Roland's death. Man, that was sad! Borderlands 2 was such a good game. Wish they'd make a villain like Handsome Jack again! It's supposed to be this grand climactic moment where you get super invested in the plot and, choking back your tears, swear revenge against those FUCKING FUCKERS RRAAAGGGHHH - but instead it winds up being a little interlude to reflect bitterly on how much you miss Handsome Jack. And I don't think it's just me, either! Because if you look at the normal fan reaction, almost everyone who goes through that scene walks away hating AVA, not Handsomette and Onision. How are you going to have this pivotal Bad Buy showdown scene, where you sacrifice one of the better characters in your storyline for the sake of putting the villains over, only instead of getting your audience to hate the villains, you unite your audience in hatred against the plucky young Coming of Age Heroine that you've been desperately building up as the next Main Hero / Face Character for the entire franchise?!?

And again, I'm not anti-Ava by any means. I actually really liked Ava; I appreciated her hustle, and I was hoping they'd make her a playable Vault Hunter in the future (not much hope of that NOW, I think). But I can't deny that the BL3 writers fucked up their villains so bad, that it was easier to hate the main heroine than it was to hate the actual villains.

Also, another thing that pissed me off (no, really, I liked BL3! It's a good game) was the way the Youtube Twins' storyline just... dissipated. I actually thought they were building up to some cool shit, like all these little hints were being dropped about how Onision, the runty bitch of the pair, was starting to come into his own, flexing his muscles and building up this seething incel resentment towards Tyrean. I fully expected the two of them to turn on each other at some point - like, maybe right at the end of a pivotal boss fight, Onision stabs his sister in the back and steals all HER energy, then he flies away and now you gotta go fight some sororicidal tranny Triple-Siren. Maybe before she dies, there's a mini-redemption arc, where Tyrean does something nice to help you? Or maybe before HE dies, Onision has a mini-redemption arc where he regrets what he did to his sister, and there's some touching flashbacks to when they were just innocent little kids, looking to get off their planet? The stuff with their dad and their childhood diaries was actually really fun and (could have been) genuinely emotional, but I was also expecting some kind of twist or drama WITH THE TWINS, RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY. Instead it just wound up being, oh, you beat the boss, I guess Onision's dead now? Oh, you beat Tyrean, guess she's dead now too? Oh look, here's Lilith to save the day now I guess, even though she's dead. Yaaaay, you don't matter...?

tl;dr BL3's villains were a failed attempt to do Handsome Jack again.

 

[The handsome tard]

One thing I never really got about BL3 was what the writers' vision was for the Youtube Twins. It seemed like they were trying to recapture the magic of Handsome Jack... but, for whatever reason, it never really clicked. Some of the elements were there, but either they weren't put together correctly, or they'd be done already so it just made you miss the stuff Handsome Jack did.

I think part of the problem was that the Youtube Twins didn't really seem like a credible threat; they were a good concept for a stage boss, but not the Main Badguy.

Jack was this sociopathic gigachad that you couldn't help loving to hate. He was cooler than you, richer than you, handsomer than you; he was the Hero of the game, a Hero who murdered people in cold blood and threw tantrums like a spoiled California child, and he was going to stomp you out like Big Tech stomping out freedom of speech. It was almost like the writers of BL2 were deliberately making Jack into a Mary Sue (a trope everybody hates), so that he'd be easier to dislike. Everybody hates a winner, and Handsome Jack goes a step further by giving you legitimate reasons to hate that winner.

But the Youtube Twins? I dunno. They were "popular kids", too - Tiktok stars, Twitch streamers, Millennials who put "social influencer" down on their resume. That could be a funny and annoying gimmick too, sure. But the Twins never really seemed like gigachads. They never seemed "authentically cool", like some Hollywood superstar, or the bodybuilder who shows up at the beach and kicks sand in your face - someone that YOU hate, but you also know that NPCs and idiots love. No, instead, the Twins were like Jake and Logan Paul - goofy jobbers. Yeah, they're popular, sort of, but they're popular for all the wrong reasons. People think they're numbskulls; you tune in to their videos to laugh at how clueless they are.

iirc, the BL3 suicide mission had Handsomette Black insulting you too ("gunslut", I think she calls you?), but it doesn't feel as personal and biting as Jack's humiliations. Just kinda feels like, I dunno, a casual findom session with a sassy chick who's trying her best, but - eh? And then there was the death of Maya, which was CLEARLY meant to recapture the drama of Jack killing Roland. That didn't really work either, though, because one, I saw it coming from a mile away, two, Emo Onision is even less threatening than his sister and had nowhere near the credibility Jack did by that point in the story, and three, even if I didn't see it coming, my first reaction was oh yeah, I remember Roland's death. Man, that was sad! Borderlands 2 was such a good game. Wish they'd make a villain like Handsome Jack again! It's supposed to be this grand climactic moment where you get super invested in the plot and, choking back your tears, swear revenge against those FUCKING FUCKERS RRAAAGGGHHH - but instead it winds up being a little interlude to reflect bitterly on how much you miss Handsome Jack. And I don't think it's just me, either! Because if you look at the normal fan reaction, almost everyone who goes through that scene walks away hating AVA, not Handsomette and Onision. How are you going to have this pivotal Bad Buy showdown scene, where you sacrifice one of the better characters in your storyline for the sake of putting the villains over, only instead of getting your audience to hate the villains, you unite your audience in hatred against the plucky young Coming of Age Heroine that you've been desperately building up as the next Main Hero / Face Character for the entire franchise?!?

And again, I'm not anti-Ava by any means. I actually really liked Ava; I appreciated her hustle, and I was hoping they'd make her a playable Vault Hunter in the future (not much hope of that NOW, I think). But I can't deny that the BL3 writers fucked up their villains so bad, that it was easier to hate the main heroine than it was to hate the actual villains.

Also, another thing that pissed me off (no, really, I liked BL3! It's a good game) was the way the Youtube Twins' storyline just... dissipated. I actually thought they were building up to some cool shit, like all these little hints were being dropped about how Onision, the runty bitch of the pair, was starting to come into his own, flexing his muscles and building up this seething incel resentment towards Tyrean. I fully expected the two of them to turn on each other at some point - like, maybe right at the end of a pivotal boss fight, Onision stabs his sister in the back and steals all HER energy, then he flies away and now you gotta go fight some sororicidal tranny Triple-Siren. Maybe before she dies, there's a mini-redemption arc, where Tyrean does something nice to help you? Or maybe before HE dies, Onision has a mini-redemption arc where he regrets what he did to his sister, and there's some touching flashbacks to when they were just innocent little kids, looking to get off their planet? The stuff with their dad and their childhood diaries was actually really fun and (could have been) genuinely emotional, but I was also expecting some kind of twist or drama WITH THE TWINS, RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY. Instead it just wound up being, oh, you beat the boss, I guess Onision's dead now? Oh, you beat Tyrean, guess she's dead now too? Oh look, here's Lilith to save the day now I guess, even though she's dead. Yaaaay, you don't matter...?

tl;dr BL3's villains were a failed attempt to do Handsome Jack again.

First off you dont have to keep saying that you "like" B3, you can simply say you stick around for the gameplay but thats really it. I also think that what really helped Jack stand out is his voice actor, Dameon Clarke. Originally it was going to be Nolan North to voice Jack but after hearing Clarke's take, even he had to tip his hat and say that Clarke is just "that good at sounding like a douche". Dam put a lot of heart and effort into making Handsome Jack the perfect mixture of entertainingly hateful as possible. You hate this guy, by god, he is entertaining and charismatic.

Besides, under all that ego, Jack isnt technically wrong about Pandora. The whole planet is a giant shithole of degeneracy, greed, rape and murder. The Crimson Raiders are trying to preserve a status quo that, by all means, is far from ideal while Jack's "order" is fueled by both ego and vengence but there is legit desire at being a hero in Jack. The whole heroism side of his isnt false, he LEGIT think he is the hero destined the clean up the filthy from pandora and thus, all "evil" acts of his are morally justified. It helps that its revealed he manipulated the B1 vault hunters since the start, kind of "retconning" the bare bones plot of the original as doing Jack's bidding through Angel. It was a genius retcon, showing they were aware of B1's issue of having a bare bones plot.

Handsome Jack is a tridimentional antagonist who is always one step ahead of you. Its like he is at the finishing line and boosting about it at you miles away. Besides, him getting pretty much a solo origin game in the form of the pre-sequel did help expand his character even further.

The twins are shamelessly villanous and are hardly tri dimentional. There were traits of something there but it ultimately built up to nothing. Thing is, it felt they were trying to do Handsome Jack again but not getting WHY and HOW Jack worked. They dont have charisma like Jack did, even tho they are "supposed" to be so in universe. With Handsome Jack, you didnt question how he became the CEO of Hyperion, you were convinced he used his charisma and ocassional murder to climb his way up the corporate ladder. He convinced you that people under his leadership adore him (or fear him enough to not want to stand up).

With the twins, I just wasnt convinced that people loved them. Surprisingly enough, even if it seems that way at first, not everyone in the Borderlands universe is an idiot, especially outside of Pandora/Elpis so just handwaving that people in the Borderlands universe are just that stupid and crazy is just excusing a severe weakness of the plot.

 

[Solid Snek]

Surprisingly enough, even if it seems that way at first, not everyone in the Borderlands universe is an idiot, especially outside of Pandora/Elpis so just handwaving that people in the Borderlands universe are just that stupid and crazy is just excusing a severe weakness of the plot.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, it was established back in BL1 that the denizens of Pandora were exceptionally inbred and stupid; the rest of the galaxy, while not exactly "normal", is a good deal more functional than Pandorans. The Twins seem to target bandits and raiders, mostly, who are more prone to mental illness than average - but it's still difficult to believe that their non-Pandoran twitch subs would be as fanatical and dumb as they appear to be in BL3.

I was a little ambivalent about the BL1 retcon, though. I hated the ending to BL1 when I first reached it - but in hindsight, it was audaciously stupid, which given the general state of Pandora in BL1, was weirdly fitting. Fleshing out the ending through a Jack retcon, while it made the ending technically better, also robbed the ending of what made it so special. It went from a uniquely bad ending that stood out from the sea as a beacon of crapness, to just a boring, forgettable, run-of-the-mill bad ending.

irst off you dont have to keep saying that you "like" B3, you can simply say you stick around for the gameplay but thats really it.

I don't know if it was the gameplay that I liked about BL3. The gameplay wasn't bad, but I think it was a step backwards from tPS, and I didn't really like any of the Vault Hunters save Septiceye (and even Septiceye took me longer than usual to find my groove with; main reason I stuck with him was because he was the only one with good dialogue). Usually there's at least two, probably three Vault Hunters I'll feel motivated to run through the game as, and I'll know who they are by the time I finish their intro questlines. But this time...?

 

[The handsome tard]

I was a little ambivalent about the BL1 retcon, though. I hated the ending to BL1 when I first reached it - but in hindsight, it was audaciously stupid, which given the general state of Pandora in BL1, was weirdly fitting. Fleshing out the ending through a Jack retcon, while it made the ending technically better, also robbed the ending of what made it so special. It went from a uniquely bad ending that stood out from the sea as a beacon of crapness, to just a boring, forgettable, run-of-the-mill bad ending.

In BL1 ending's small defense, the game kind didnt "end", more like told you that the adventure goes on through the DLCs, which it actually did. The DLCs of 1 are actualyl pretty impactful to the lore, The Armory of General Knoxx concluded with the Crimson Lancers being crushed by the Vault Hunters (setting up them becoming the Crimson Raiders in BL2) and Athena would wander off into an unknown fate until TPS happened. And Claptrap, who started the claptrap revolution in its own DLC, became Fragtrap in TPS who returned to being regular non-stairs climbing Claptrap in BL2. The Moxxie Dome one introduced Moxxie who would become a staple in the series. The only "inconsequential" one was the Dr Ned Zombie Island, which you could say it simply had no hanging ties and characters to return or its non canon as its possibly a story Markus told to kids.

They advanced the "bare bones" lore the game had, which BL2 and TPS ran with it. There is something to be admired in there, even if the vanilla ending just "ends"...at least gaining more context in BL2 with the Hyperion satelite (HJ was there since the beginning...)

I don't know if it was the gameplay that I liked about BL3. The gameplay wasn't bad, but I think it was a step backwards from tPS, and I didn't really like any of the Vault Hunters save Septiceye (and even Septiceye took me longer than usual to find my groove with; main reason I stuck with him was because he was the only one with good dialogue). Usually there's at least two, probably three Vault Hunters I'll feel motivated to run through the game as, and I'll know who they are by the time I finish their intro questlines. But this time...?

The characters are alright by me, none of them were unlikable or anything. I just wished that they had more impact as they kind of disappear during cutscenes as the game cant make up its mind if we are watching it from their POV or from a cinematic angle. They kind of try both and they constantly contradict the other.