BP Radical Feminism Thread - for discussing radical feminism

[HG 400]

Kiwi Farms has a decently sized audience in radical feminist circles and I thought it was about time Beauty Parlor got an off-topic thread for discussing radical feminist theory and literature, and especially for sharing our thoughts on news and articles from a radical feminist perspective. This could also be a great place for explaining the basics of radical feminism to any liberal or intersectional feminists that just don't understand why it's so important. Places where people can discuss important ideas without censoring views and shouting down discussion seem to be getting rarer and rarer on the internet so even if you don't identify as a feminist for whatever bizarre reason feel free to hop in anyway and hopefully you'll step away with some pretty rewarding things to think about.

 

[CatParty]

@Fagnasty this is a good idea. we can connect better with our pals over at mumsnet!

 

[HG 400]

This article got me thinking about whether or not transgendereds should be allowed into beauty pageants. Obviously I'm against celebrating patriarchal gender-roles in the first place and feel like these kind of competitions are already inherently catering to the male gaze to the point that it honestly can't do any harm letting transgendereds in, but then I got to thinking that maybe I'm just brushing it off because of my distaste for these kinds of events and it's still a form of female erasure that needs to be protested against ; even if the participants aren't capable of truly recognising or resenting the amount of male privilege being brought in by female LARPers.

What do you all think about this?

 

[RadicalCentrist]

Could not agree more. Considering how often Radical Fem topics are brought up, its shocking there isn't a place already set for discussion.

 

[WW 635]

This article got me thinking about whether or not transgendereds should be allowed into beauty pageants. Obviously I'm against celebrating patriarchal gender-roles in the first place and feel like these kind of competitions are already inherently catering to the male gaze to the point that it honestly can't do any harm letting transgendereds in, but then I got to thinking that maybe I'm just brushing it off because of my distaste for these kinds of events and it's still a form of female erasure that needs to be protested against ; even if the participants aren't capable of truly recognising or resenting the amount of male privilege being brought in by female LARPers.

What do you all think about this?

Beauty pageants are a tool of the patriarchy and should be abolished entirely

 

[CatParty]

This article got me thinking about whether or not transgendereds should be allowed into beauty pageants. Obviously I'm against celebrating patriarchal gender-roles in the first place and feel like these kind of competitions are already inherently catering to the male gaze to the point that it honestly can't do any harm letting transgendereds in, but then I got to thinking that maybe I'm just brushing it off because of my distaste for these kinds of events and it's still a form of female erasure that needs to be protested against ; even if the participants aren't capable of truly recognising or resenting the amount of male privilege being brought in by female LARPers.

What do you all think about this?

this is also troubling
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/...-policy-led-to-kindergarten-assault/848542511

A Decatur parent is alleging her daughter was sexually assaulted by another child in an elementary school bathroom last fall, in a federal civil rights complaint that comes amid national turmoil over both sexual assault and gender identity.

The complaint says the girl, 5, was assaulted in a girls’ bathroom by a “gender fluid” boy last November. Both returned to their classroom and said nothing about it to the teacher, the complaint says.

Decatur schools implemented a policy allowing students to use facilities consistent with their gender identity after a controversial 2016 advisory from the administration of President Barack Obama, which said schools had to do so. President Donald Trump’s administration walked back that advisory after his election. But Decatur schools left its policy in place, though it continued to draw questions and concern from some parents.

The complaint, filed by Norcross attorney Vernadette Broyles under the federal Title IX law, says the City Schools of Decatur created a hostile environment for girls by “eliminating their expectation of privacy from the opposite sex.” It says the girl, who was a kindergartner at Oakhurst Elementary School, was pushed against a wall and her genitals were forcibly touched by a fellow student who had followed her to the bathroom.

A school district spokeswoman issued a brief statement saying the district was “aware of the unfounded allegations” and “we fully disagree with their characterization of the situation.”

The statement said there would be no further comment because it was a pending legal matter.

The release of the complaint comes after a tumultuous U.S. Senate hearing involving allegations of sexual assault against Brett Kavanaugh, President Donald Trump’s pick for the Supreme Court. The hearing triggered a national controversy over sexual assault and victim credibility that, Broyles acknowledged, is one reason they went public with the case now. The federal government indicated last month that it would investigate.

Broyles said in an interview Wednesday that the Decatur school board has failed to adopt a clear policy around gender and privacy, relying instead on non-specific instructions from Superintendent David Dude.

Dude has written that a child assigned the sex of male at birth who identifies as female should be treated the same as any other female student. The child should be allowed to use the female restroom and locker room, should be addressed with female pronouns, should be allowed to try out for “female” sports and should be allowed to room with females on field trips.

The instructions in the superintendent’s blog did not give specifics about how that was to be implemented.

Broyles also accused the school district of reacting inappropriately to her client’s allegation. The morning after the incident, Broyles said, the girl’s mom complained to the school. A school resource officer took a police report, and the case was referred to the Georgia Division of Family and Children Services. All of that was appropriate, she said, but her complaint alleges the school apparently accused the mother, because DFCS investigated her, interviewing her and her children.

“The school was attempting to deflect responsibility from itself,” Broyles said. Her complaint says DFCS found no grounds against the mother. (The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is not identifying the mother to protect the privacy of the alleged victim.)

Then, Decatur refused to change the bathroom rules at the school, allowing the alleged child assailant continued access to the same bathroom as the girl. The district also refused to separate the children. Several weeks later, the mother transferred her daughter to another elementary school in the district.

Broyles filed the complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights in May. On Sept. 14, the agency informed her by letter that it was opening an investigation under Title IX, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex. The agency has jurisdiction because Decatur schools get federal funding.

U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos happened to be in Atlanta Wednesday to visit Georgia Tech. She told reporters she was unaware of the Decatur case, but said it’s her agency’s duty to investigate such complaints.

The federal agency’s decision was revealed Wednesday by the Alliance Defending Freedom, a nonprofit legal organization based in Scottsdale, Ariz., that advocates for “the right of people to freely live out their faith” and trains attorneys to “defend and reclaim religious liberty, the sanctity of life, and marriage and family.”

Christiana Holcomb, legal counsel for the Alliance, said the organization is involved in other school bathroom-related cases, including one in Pennsylvania. She called the alleged Decatur assault “absolutely tragic” and said the district “abysmally failed.” She hopes the federal agency will take disciplinary action against Decatur.

“And then too, we would be hopeful that other school districts will take notice,” Holcomb said. “We are trying to ensure that every student is protected.”

A month before the alleged incident, Broyles represented several parents who complained at a Decatur school board meeting about the district’s bathroom policies. Broyles said those parents subsequently connected her with the mother who alleges her daughter was assaulted.

The Rev. Erin Swenson, who provides diversity and transgender inclusion training, said the school system has done a good job of supporting transgender students.

Swenson, who gained national attention when she retained her ordination in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) after she transitioned from male to female, spoke last year in Decatur about the transgender controversy. On Wednesday, she said Decatur wants to “normalize” the situation for transgender kids.

“I would expect that the school district is highly competent to take care of that situation,” she said.

Broyles has not filed a lawsuit, but didn’t rule out the possibility.

 

[WW 635]

this is also troubling
https://www.wpxi.com/news/national/...-policy-led-to-kindergarten-assault/848542511

Gender fluid is a lie made up by the patriarchy to allow men into women's spaces. No matter what they claim to be their Y chromosome screams for rape and oppression

 

[mrdk_04]

This article got me thinking about whether or not transgendereds should be allowed into beauty pageants. Obviously I'm against celebrating patriarchal gender-roles in the first place and feel like these kind of competitions are already inherently catering to the male gaze to the point that it honestly can't do any harm letting transgendereds in, but then I got to thinking that maybe I'm just brushing it off because of my distaste for these kinds of events and it's still a form of female erasure that needs to be protested against ; even if the participants aren't capable of truly recognising or resenting the amount of male privilege being brought in by female LARPers.

What do you all think about this?

Call me :dumb: but what is it you are asking us to comment on?
Whether or not transgenders should be allowed into beauty pageants, the abolishment of beauty pageants, the patriarchal implications, et al.?

 

[HG 400]

Call me :dumb: but what is it you are asking us to comment on?
Whether or not transgenders should be allowed into beauty pageants, the abolishment of beauty pageants, the patriarchal implications, et al.?

There's no limits to debate here and certainly no :dumb: questions. I'd love to see beauty pageants abolished but I know that's pretty optimistic of me, so for me personally I just have conflicting thoughts on whether transgendereds entering this kind of woman's space could even be considered female erasure. I guess I feel like them bringing their years of male socialisation and male privilege into these spaces isn't really changing anything since it's already basically just a handmaiden competition to begin with. I just wanted to share my thoughts on it and wondered if anybody else has a perspective to share.

 

[ThePurpleProse]

I'm confused, I thought radical feminists = intersectional feminists. Unless you're calling radical fem to the group that's against trannies? Yeah I need an explanation...

Obviously I'm against celebrating patriarchal gender-roles in the first place and feel like these kind of competitions are already inherently catering to the male gaze

Well that's the point, mans enjoy pretty womans, why would that be wrong.
Also trannies are not womans, they shouldn't be allowed.

 

[mrdk_04]

There's no limits to debate here and certainly no :dumb: questions. I'd love to see beauty pageants abolished but I know that's pretty optimistic of me, so for me personally I just have conflicting thoughts on whether transgendereds entering this kind of woman's space could even be considered female erasure. I guess I feel like them bringing their years of male socialisation and male privilege into these spaces isn't really changing anything since it's already basically just a handmaiden competition to begin with. I just wanted to share my thoughts on it and wondered if anybody else has a perspective to share.

I don't necessarily mind beauty pageants, they can be useful in providing role models.
I do hate how some use children and basically abuse them, though.
Whether or not it is erasing female spaces depends on whether or not the trannies pass.
If they pass it should be no issue, if they don't pass, why would you allow them to enter in the first place?
As for "the male gaze", I accept its existence, but I do not agree with it being a bad thing, nor that it is detrimental to gender relations.
EDIT: are you American? I'm from Europe and am genuinely interested in your perspective.

 

[BoingBoingBoi]

There's no limits to debate here and certainly no :dumb: questions. I'd love to see beauty pageants abolished but I know that's pretty optimistic of me, so for me personally I just have conflicting thoughts on whether transgendereds entering this kind of woman's space could even be considered female erasure. I guess I feel like them bringing their years of male socialisation and male privilege into these spaces isn't really changing anything since it's already basically just a handmaiden competition to begin with. I just wanted to share my thoughts on it and wondered if anybody else has a perspective to share.

they're horrible, oppressive, and dated affairs, and your first intuition about wanting them abolished is correct. for that reason i can't see any good coming from letting transgender people in them since it will only serve to prolong their existence. if they get called even more oppressive for not letting transgenders in, then they're one step closer to being extinct. good riddance.

 

[RadicalCentrist]

Whether or not it is erasing female spaces depends on whether or not the trannies pass.
If they pass it should be no issue, if they don't pass, why would you allow them to enter in the first place?

An interesting point. So it is whether the trannies pass, or "are observed by others and identified as women" vs "are observed by others and are not allowed in" that is the arbiter of whether 'trannies' are "erasing female spaces."

While you can argue that is the actions of the tranny that contribute to "passing," it cannot be denied that ultimately it depends on the one seeing the tranny, or the observer, which dictates "passing." However, we run into a problem - what if the observer is a man? In that case, a man would dictate as to whom enters a female space, a contradiction. To that end, barring men from viewing, or attending, beauty pageants at all is the preferred policy solution. Or so it seems. Think of a tranny that wants to attend, is considered "passing" by fellow attendee's, and is allowed inside. That tranny is now an observer - one whom dictates admittance and allowance. Are 'trannies' observers as well? Consider a scenario where a beauty pageant slowly admits trannies, until there is a majority, upon which ONLY trannies are admitted?

The obvious rejoinder is "Of course women pass automatically!" But can you really be sure? We have already accepted that the observer is whom dictates, by nature subjective, femininity and of course there are no biological determinants of sex. The question I wish to pose to my fellow k-farmers is one that undercuts the whole issue: Can a tranny both observe AND BE observed?

It's quite a puzzler. Tune in for my next post whereupon I posit the dual nature of troons in regards to having properties of both waves and particles.

 

[metroid_fetish]

This thread should get drunk at a frat party.

 

[FI 665]

Whether or not it is erasing female spaces depends on whether or not the trannies pass.
If they pass it should be no issue, if they don't pass, why would you allow them to enter in the first place?

The more leeway you give to trannies, passing or not, the more women-only spaces they'll demand entrance to. I'm sure you've seen non-passing trannies like Fire, or srhbutts, and especially ADF, who actually bragged about getting a woman kicked out of a woman's shelter for misgendering him. Sure, it's something as archaic and retarded as a beauty pageant, but there are absolutely spaces they don't need to have access to. We have to draw the line somewhere!

 

[sperginity]

Radical thread OP! There's not nearly enough tranny sperging on kiwi farms

 

[HG 400]

Radical thread OP! There's not nearly enough tranny sperging on kiwi farms

I hope you get raped and have acid thrown in your face.

 

[sperginity]

I hope you get raped and have acid thrown in your face.

You must be starting your period soon. Solidarity, sister!

 

[Rand /pol/]

Woman aren't people, like minorities

 

[thejackal]

Here's a couple links to get you started:

"witchwind" on why "penis in vagina" (PIV) intercourse is always rape

spinster twisty on her Texas ranch getting her lobes blown by the patriarchy