Disaster Brexit: "Technical terms" agreed - Chequers minus, as feared, or Brexit in name only.

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
From what I understand they'd need the delay to legally implement the deal it's not something that can be done overnight
That's what the transition period is supposed to be for.

From what I make of it the Parliament would need to approve a no deal brexit, which it voted against last week, otherwise the withdrawal would be unconstitutional.
This is why it was ridiculous to even have a vote on no deal. No one really outwardly says they want it. Most hardline leavers say a deal is better than no deal, but no deal isn't the end of the world. The idea of the vote was what they wanted May to do next. They rejected her deal, and no deal, and told her to get more time, and the E.U. seem to saying that there is no way forward except to take May's deal, which the Speaker has rejected a vote on unless the terms are substantially changed. So, no deal is the only option...except they voted against it :/

If it hits March 29th without a deal and an approved delay, they kind of have to take it, unconstitutional or not. The problem with this 'law' is that depends on two parties, Britain and the E.U., and while Britain need EU approval to do anything, the same can't be said of the E.U. Britain can reject a no deal all they like, but if they also can't negotiate a deal with the E.U. they can't use their unconstitutional basis to force the E.U. to let them stay or keep negotiating. They'll simply be ejected from the union by E.U. law regardless of what MPs voted that they wanted.
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
Could the EU just say fuck this bullshit and kick them out like you'd shove out a cat standing in the doorway?
Probably but then why do that when you hold all the cards? Either Brexit happens or it doesn't, either way is a win for the EU over England especially if a real brexit triggers a political meltdown of the UK.
 

Крыса

там хорошо, где меня нет
kiwifarms.net
That's what the transition period is supposed to be for.

This is why it was ridiculous to even have a vote on no deal. No one really outwardly says they want it. Most hardline leavers say a deal is better than no deal, but no deal isn't the end of the world. The idea of the vote was what they wanted May to do next. They rejected her deal, and no deal, and told her to get more time, and the E.U. seem to saying that there is no way forward except to take May's deal, which the Speaker has rejected a vote on unless the terms are substantially changed. So, no deal is the only option...except they voted against it :/

If it hits March 29th without a deal and an approved delay, they kind of have to take it, unconstitutional or not. The problem with this 'law' is that depends on two parties, Britain and the E.U., and while Britain need EU approval to do anything, the same can't be said of the E.U. Britain can reject a no deal all they like, but if they also can't negotiate a deal with the E.U. they can't use their unconstitutional basis to force the E.U. to let them stay or keep negotiating. They'll simply be ejected from the union by E.U. law regardless of what MPs voted that they wanted.
I think even the transition period details have to be acted into law, it would probably be impossible to do that between an hypothetical 3rd vote and the 29th ?

The article I've posted up there says there's no ejection mechanism actually, the worse thing that can happen to a member is a suspension of representation and voting rights, so I guess you can be bullied into leaving ? Without representation you're still a part of the EU but have no say whatsoever, so you're basically the autistic child that's left in the corner of the living room while the adults are talking, I don't think any country would accept that for long.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
I think even the transition period details have to be acted into law, it would probably be impossible to do that between an hypothetical 3rd vote and the 29th ?
There are no transition period details, except for the duration. It's just a period of time when everything that is agreed in the withdrawal deal are put into place and comes into effect immediately after the U.K. leaves, if it leaves with a deal. I'm not even sure, outside of deciding on length (which could be decided within a week easily, maybe less), what would need to be enacted? Once they leave, they're out. There's no limbo between in and out, if they hit the 29th and leave but don't enact the transition period.

The article I've posted up there says there's no ejection mechanism actually, the worse thing that can happen to a member is a suspension of representation and voting rights, so I guess you can be bullied into leaving ? Without representation you're still a part of the EU but have no say whatsoever, so you're basically the autistic child that's left in the corner of the living room while the adults are talking, I don't think any country would accept that for long.
What it says is that a country "may decide to withdraw from the EU in accordance with ‘its own constitutional requirements’." But that has nothing to do with a deal or not. The constitutional requirements were the referendum and the subsequent vote in parliament to ask the E.U. to enact article 50. That's already been done. There's nothing about that which does or does not require a deal, and MPs voting against no-brexit doesn't constitute a constitutional requirement. See this article which states:

"Parliament's rejection of a no-deal Brexit does not change the law but represents a clear expression of its will and a further significant blow to the waning authority of the prime minister."

Regardless of whatever 'meaningful' vote Westminster might take, everyone readily understands that if they hit the 29th with or without a deal, if a delay isn't granted, that the U.K. is exiting the E.U.,
 

Huitzilopochtli

High brow shitposter
kiwifarms.net
Could the EU just say fuck this bullshit and kick them out like you'd shove out a cat standing in the doorway?
I'm not sure which I would find funnier. The UK accidentally the whole EU, or them lingering on kicking the can in perpetuity like an ex with borderline personality disorder that still sleeps on your couch that you occasionally hatefuck to work out your rage and self loathing.
 

Clem Fandango

Can you hear me?
kiwifarms.net
India would be my go-to example to be honest. Not perfect but they're getting better and definitely better off than they would be scattered and divided with nations around the world who'd exploit that weakness as has actually happened before. Granted this largely came as a result of foreign conquests creating politically contiguous empires that lasted centuries in the first place but then that is often the case. Certainly the idea of a trans-europan bloc is nothing new. (The Romans/The Carolingians/The Hapsburgs/Napoleon)
Uh yeah your unifications are all still military conquests. The Romans and Napoleon? That's not "the idea of a trans-european bloc", it's subjugation.
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
Uh yeah your unifications are all still military conquests. The Romans and Napoleon? That's not "the idea of a trans-european bloc", it's subjugation.
Its both, conquests are vectors through which contiguous identities can be constructed. The point being that a political union like the EU was not without precedent. Hell, Europe (to the best of my knowledge) has a pretty unique aspect to it in that titular successions could pass through separate kingdoms so you end up with political unions like the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth or Austro-hungary or the Spanish Hapsburg empire.. You don't really see that in too many other places though I'd yield to superior knowledge on the subject.
 

The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

Still Pimpin
kiwifarms.net
Its both, conquests are vectors through which contiguous identities can be constructed. The point being that a political union like the EU was not without precedent. Hell, Europe (to the best of my knowledge) has a pretty unique aspect to it in that titular successions could pass through separate kingdoms so you end up with political unions like the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth or Austro-hungary or the Spanish Hapsburg empire.. You don't really see that in too many other places though I'd yield to superior knowledge on the subject.
You simply cannot compare The Romans/The Carolingians/The Hapsburgs/Napoleon to the EU. They are not similar in any way shape or form aside from being political entities that controlled much of Europe. None of these entities ever controlled all of Europe, and the only one that could truly be called comparable in terms of being a truly multinational state would be the Habsburg Monarchy/Austrian Empire/Austria-Hungary, and even then, it was a essentially a feudal state united only in its allegiance to the Crown of the Hapsburgs. The Romans and Carolingians were ancient Empires that existed in an era before nation-states, before nationalism, in a completely different time and place and can in no way be considered an equivalent to the EU. In both states, there was a dominate culture, which conquered and forcefully integrate others into itself. The French Empire under Napoleon I was essentially modern France with a few additions outside of it (parts of Italy, the Illyrian Provinces, and Catalonia mostly) and a whole bunch of client states. It was not comparable to Europe either. None of these states remotely attempted to what the E.U. is doing, and none of them controlled all of Europe (though some came closer to others.)
 
Latest hysteria from remain is the petition to rescind Article 50 (a petition that anyone in the world can sign with no checks or balances, and is vulnerable to bots), but what's interesting is how easily the mask slips. For years they've been telling us they want to take it back to the people, that we deserve a final say, that there's nothing wrong with more democracy etc. But now at the 11th hour, it just switches straight to cancelling it outright along with the supreme arrogance/delusion that they could just cancel the whole thing and just carry on as if nothing had happened.
 

Slimy Time

Rape Face #3
kiwifarms.net
I like how these politicians have been spending too much time in the EU system. "We will only extend if you get the bill passed through parliament" as if that is something the PM can do with the snap of her fingers. Also, if they do pass the bill, there is no reason to extend time is there? 2 year implementation period is required anyways.

I have little faith in the British public going all France, but they really are starting to push it. The Mps should remember that what happened to Jo Cox can happen to them if they piss off enough of the public.

(Note to any British journalists or police reading this, this is not a fucking endorsement if that were to occur).
 

CWCissey

Charming Man
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I like how these politicians have been spending too much time in the EU system. "We will only extend if you get the bill passed through parliament" as if that is something the PM can do with the snap of her fingers. Also, if they do pass the bill, there is no reason to extend time is there? 2 year implementation period is required anyways.

I have little faith in the British public going all France, but they really are starting to push it. The Mps should remember that what happened to Jo Cox can happen to them if they piss off enough of the public.

(Note to any British journalists or police reading this, this is not a fucking endorsement if that were to occur).
Apparently there's been some threats for civil unrest if Brexit doesn't go through from Brexiteers. Hopefully it happens as it's well known that if you spur the British populace into action, you know you've fucked up.
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
You simply cannot compare The Romans/The Carolingians/The Hapsburgs/Napoleon to the EU. They are not similar in any way shape or form aside from being political entities that controlled much of Europe. None of these entities ever controlled all of Europe, and the only one that could truly be called comparable in terms of being a truly multinational state would be the Habsburg Monarchy/Austrian Empire/Austria-Hungary, and even then, it was a essentially a feudal state united only in its allegiance to the Crown of the Hapsburgs. The Romans and Carolingians were ancient Empires that existed in an era before nation-states, before nationalism, in a completely different time and place and can in no way be considered an equivalent to the EU. In both states, there was a dominate culture, which conquered and forcefully integrate others into itself. The French Empire under Napoleon I was essentially modern France with a few additions outside of it (parts of Italy, the Illyrian Provinces, and Catalonia mostly) and a whole bunch of client states. It was not comparable to Europe either. None of these states remotely attempted to what the E.U. is doing, and none of them controlled all of Europe (though some came closer to others.)
My point was that large political hegemonies are nothing new in Europe and go back to the very founding of the common identity between most European nations that made the EU possible in the first place. The fact that these individual hegemonies are not 1:1 comparable is only tangential to my overall point. Also I'd argue that the roman empire throughout the multiple forms it took was a nation-state at least during parts of its history, as it would've met all the qualifiers of one.
 

Clem Fandango

Can you hear me?
kiwifarms.net
That petition is a joke. I've seen people on leftie forums bragging about how they've "signed up all their gammony family members for the lulz". So essentially it's completely worthless as an accurate barometer of public opinion. Why they seem to think it's actually more authoritative than regular polls (which have methodologies behind them and are typically well regulated) is fucking baffling.
 
That petition is a joke. I've seen people on leftie forums bragging about how they've "signed up all their gammony family members for the lulz". So essentially it's completely worthless as an accurate barometer of public opinion. Why they seem to think it's actually more authoritative than regular polls (which have methodologies behind them and are typically well regulated) is fucking baffling.

Well the referendum result was invalid because some Russians made a few posts on Facebook. But this poll that anyone in the world can sign multiple times is far more accurate because.........erm.............uh...........look, some numbers on the side of a bus!
 

Racist Trash

Fucking Lidl doesn't have any Custard Creams.
kiwifarms.net
That petition is a joke. I've seen people on leftie forums bragging about how they've "signed up all their gammony family members for the lulz". So essentially it's completely worthless as an accurate barometer of public opinion. Why they seem to think it's actually more authoritative than regular polls (which have methodologies behind them and are typically well regulated) is fucking baffling.
Well the referendum result was invalid because some Russians made a few posts on Facebook. But this poll that anyone in the world can sign multiple times is far more accurate because.........erm.............uh...........look, some numbers on the side of a bus!

Don't worry guys someone from the BBC is here with some hard hitting Journalism concluding that it's not bots because it would be "A bit of a pain" to set them up because email verification...



But yeah Russia still hacks elections and other petitions just not this one despite it being known that Russia plays both sides clearly going for discontent rather than supporting one side.
 
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