Bookmark these Backup URLs:
uquu...zyqd.onion, kiwifarms.is, kiwifarms.tw, kiwifarms.hk

British Politics General -

Night Terror

Night Terror

submerge
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Since we've got a fair few Britbongs on the forum, and Britbong politics have been quite busy recently, it might be worthwhile to keep it all in one thread.
As you may have heard, Jeremy Corbyn, the new Labour leader, didn't stand for the national anthem. This caused quite a stir amongst the right wing (and other people, obviously), but in more important news DAVID HAMERON FUCKED A DEAD PIG LOL
Lord Ashcroft, the cheeky chappie, got snubbed out of a decent position in the Conservative party (the Tories) and as a result wrote an unauthorised biography that claims, truthfully or not, that Cameron packed his knob into a dead pig's mouth. There's a whole hashtag for it. The Tories have declined to comment, which means he probably did it. :epik:
Any more /britpol/ happenings happen, post about them here, lads.
 
Last edited:
Vitriol

Vitriol

True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Arrosoir said:
The British national anthem is horrible and if he's anti monarchy then I don't know why anyone would expect him to sing it. It's not like he burned a flag or something, he just stood there in silence.
Click to expand...
The British national anthem is tied closely to mainstream English nationalism, not just the edl types but the broad swathe of the english population that continues to support the monarchy. It can be hard to explain but the monarchy remains popular amongst large parts of the electorate, Corbyn is a republican but he is also the leader of the main party of opposition- refusing to sing the national anthem coupled with his strong anti monarchism will turn off a large segment of the electorate. The labour party has been accused in recent decades of being 'anti english' especially in relation to their support of mass immigration their leader refusing to sing the national anthem will only reinforce this which is significant when one realises how much support labour lost to UKIP in the last election. If Corbyn's 'man of the people' style is to work he needs to win the working class back including the ukip defectors and not risk pushing more that way.

That said I'm amazed by the vitriol and scrutiny the press has poured on Corbyn. If milliband or cameron were under half the scrutiny he is I believe i would have stood a reasonable chance of winning the last GE- and I didn't stand!

The really interesting thing about Corbyn is the internal politics of the Labour party that are currently in flux. For those who are unaware there are broadly two sides to the labour party- the 'left' comprised of traditional red socialists, internationalists, and union types and the 'liberals' or 'moderates' composed of centre left economically liberal types or what we now call 'new labour'. Typically the Lefties will support nationalisation, extended union and workers rights, a full cradle-to-grave welfare state and heavier taxes on the rich. New labour tends to support economic liberalism but maintains spending on the NHS and Welfare state to a greater extent than the conservatives, new labour has also become synonymous with mass immigration and fairly restrictive laws on 'hate speech'. There is an additional element to this split- local parties tend to be on the Left of the party however the Parliamentary party tends towards the New labour side. This is natural as the most left leaning people in the country will generally join the party and be active in local committees however MP's owe their position to the wider pool of labour voters which, by their nature will not be as leftwing as the full party members.

The early labour party was very much a red party however its very left dominated government collapsed disastrously in the late 1970's. In 1980 a man called Michael Foot became leader from the left of the party. Corbyn was part of the then new generation that came in in 1979. Foot ran a leftist campaign that has been described as 'the longest suicide note in history' his leadership caused a split in the party as those who were what we might now call new labour split in protest and joined the Liberal party to form the Liberal-democrats. the election in 1984 was a disaster that the party took over a decade to recover from. the mid to late 80's saw a fierce battle within the party as Kinnock and Benn fought over the parties future. Eventually under Kinnock and later Blair the left was ousted and labour abandoned many of its founding principles such as nationalisation full employment etc. Under this 'new Labour' they then went on to win 3 elections despite the immensely unpopular Iraq war in 2003. many on the left of the party felt bitter and betrayed bnut in the face of new labours successes they were marginalised and confined largely to the back benches- unlike Kinnock, Blair and Brown would have no leftist demagogues challenging them in the vein of Tony Benn. What we are now seeing is the counter revolution as the marginalised left sweeps in on the massive disillusionment New labour managed to attract over the past ten years- partly stemming from a perceived arrogance and a reliance on identity politics- milliband refusing to apologise for labours past mistakes or offer an EU referendum and Brown dismissing concern about immigration as bigotry stand out as two particular examples off the top of my head although there were plenty more small things that all added up. The anger as people who came into politics as a carreer and are now being brushed aside by people they thought of as anachronisms is quite something to watch.

Of course no party with a left platform has had any real success in the UK since labour in the 70's while right and centre parties like UKIP and the now broken liberal party both saw success in the late 80's,00,s and the recent elections respectively. since the 1970's and just like in the early days of the Foot regime those in the centre are refusing to join cabinet and may well split- again there is an atrophied liberal party they could colonise.

Corbyn's strategy is bold and will make for a good opposition as a labour party which is firmly on the left should actually be able to disagree with the conservatives however in order for him to actually win an election he has to take an electorate that voted centre right and persuade them to vote firmly on the left. This may be difficult- the situation in Scotland has spiralled out of control and is becoming partisan I don't think anyone can really predict whether the SNP voters might be tempted back in 2020 or if the SNP have permanently won them over to the goal of independence. And so long as Corbyn refuses to reject EU and Mass immigration UKIP voters are not going to come back either. Paradoxically if he does move to harden against immigration his party will almost certainly split and he will lose the support of the EU supporting left and the immigrant vote(which is by no means small). And that's without even touching how to go about persuading the wider english public.

I don't think people realise how different the labour party Corbyn joined was to the one he won in 2015- labour of the 70's used to sing the red flag at meetings, address each other as 'comrade' unironically and believed in the near total nationalisation of industry- Corbyn may have to water this down for the modern audience and party but the clashes and fights as the exact line of the new new labour party is drawn will be fascinating to watch.

for those interested there is an excellent series produced in the early 1990s that looks into what happend to labour between 1979 and 1995:
 
Last edited:
Arrosoir

Arrosoir

Tiny autist it is.
kiwifarms.net
Vitriol said:
The British national anthem is tied closely to mainstream English nationalism, not just the edl types but the broad swathe of the english population that continues to support the monarchy. It can be hard to explain but the monarchy remains popular amongst large parts of the electorate, Corbyn is a republican but he is also the leader of the main party of opposition- refusing to sing the national anthem coupled with his strong anti monarchism will turn off a large segment of the electorate. The labour party has been accused in recent decades of being 'anti english' especially in relation to their support of mass immigration their leader refusing to sing the national anthem will only reinforce this which is significant when one realises how much support labour lost to UKIP in the last election. If Corbyn's 'man of the people' style is to work he needs to win the working class back including the ukip defectors and not risk pushing more that way.
Click to expand...
Certainly, but isn't it within his discretion to decide how he represents the electorate? A significant contingent of his support is most certainly not pro monarchy and were I among them I'd find a symbolic act like this to be quite heartening. He's not making a fool of himself but he is making his opinion quite clear.
 
Vitriol

Vitriol

True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Arrosoir said:
Certainly, but isn't it within his discretion to decide how he represents the electorate? A significant contingent of his support is most certainly not pro monarchy and were I among them I'd find a symbolic act like this to be quite heartening. He's not making a fool of himself but he is making his opinion quite clear.
Click to expand...
He is entitled to discretion but if he makes a poor decision he can expect criticism. The symbolism of the day was the remembrance of the honoured dead- as he is leader of the opposition by not singing he shifted some of the focus away from the ceremony and onto his personal politics. This will offend and switch off some members of the general public, it might not be making a fool of himself but it is still expressing an opinion in a way that does damage to the party overall. This is why it is newsworthy.


He has already stated he will not be pursuing republicanism as he has other priorities- there will be numerous people thinking if it isn't important enough for him to campaign on it shouldn't be worth appearing disrespectful over and risking offending the electorate.

edit: these two pieces give a nice summary of both arguements for and against:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...national-anthem-authenticity-queen-republican
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...corbyn-national-anthem-labour-leader#comments
 
Vitriol

Vitriol

True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
☻ said:
http://us.tomonews.net/278012462612480
Click to expand...
I had a lecturer at uni who claimed that all Labour's scandals were about money wheras the tories were all about sexual deviancy. He was a wise man.

I've no idea on what effect this will have on Cameron's ability to lead and whether there will be any ripple effects- I hope so as it would be hilarious if his legacy was as the 'pm who fucked a pig' but I doubt it will bring down his government.
 
AnOminous

AnOminous

each malted milk ball might be their last
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I'm pretty skeptical of this. It reminds me of the famous (probably apocryphal) anecdote about Lyndon B. Johnson, who once told his operatives to spread rumors that his opponent had sexual relations with pigs. "But that's not true!" they objected. LBJ said "I just want to hear the son of a bitch deny it."
 
Enclave Supremacy

Enclave Supremacy

Winning life's lottery.
kiwifarms.net
Arrosoir said:
The British national anthem is horrible and if he's anti monarchy then I don't know why anyone would expect him to sing it. It's not like he burned a flag or something, he just stood there in silence.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it would have been a greater mark of his character if he'd have sang it anyway for the occasion despite his personal reasons; it was a Battle of Britain Memorial, not the time to be making personal statements.
 
Night Terror

Night Terror

submerge
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Clegg reckons the Lib Dems are the 'comeback kids'. To be fair, with all the Labour and Tory faff going on right now, the Lib Dems probably have a chance to fix their ruined reputation.
Dudeofteenage said:
Wasn't there already a thread for this?
Click to expand...
There's a thread about Cameron's alleged pigfucking in News/Events, but this is just a general thread. British politics are kind of a niche thing and it doesn't make sense to make a bunch of threads for everything that happens, because they won't last.
 
Dudeofteenage

Dudeofteenage

Mister Standfast
kiwifarms.net
Night Terror said:
There's a thread about Cameron's alleged pigfucking in News/Events, but this is just a general thread. British politics are kind of a niche thing and it doesn't make sense to make a bunch of threads for everything that happens, because they won't last.
Click to expand...

I went back and checked and there was a thread for the May British election, which sort of functioned as a general UK politics thread, but I guess it's good to also have an explicitly general thread since that one died.

Got to make an obligatory protest against the idea that UK politics are niche, though
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top