Off-Topic Canadian Law - Is it as bad as we think?

[ComeGetSome]

The "draft" states that he is making the application without notice, so it's unlikely to show up on the daily court lists. My guess, he's trying to squeeze in an ex-parte TRO against Donald, which most judges would immediately throw out.

So, you might have to actually call the registry to verify if any such motion was actually brought, because it won't be on the lists if it's not scheduled. As it's made without notice, he's not giving notice to even the registry.

Would it not appear on the "completed" list, though?

(apologies if this is redundant)

On the "Restraining Order" front - I'm marginally familiar with this as I've had family go through the process. We don't call them "restraining orders" but rather "protection orders". There's two types of "retraining orders" in BC: a "Family Law Protection Order" and a "Peace Bond".

(ref: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/crime-prevention/protection-order-registry/qa)

The FLPO doesn't apply in this case, which moves us right along to the peace bond. Your first stop is via the police. File a report, the police will investigate, forward information and a recommendation to the crown, who in turn may proceed with a criminal hearing to grant a peace bond. There is an alternative method (that one must be exhausted first) through some form of private prosecution. I know nothing of "laying an information" save for the information obtained via https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/ho...ase/private-prosecution-laying-information-bc


The thing that Yaniv posted is based upon https://www.supremecourtbc.ca/sites/default/files/web/forms/Form-35.pdf - it's a generic framing of a judicial order that both parties agree upon and the justice signs off on. What Yaniv has put forth is not what would I believe would constitute an application for a peace bond. It also does not appear to be any form of a "private prosecution".

I call shenanigans of the cartroonish variety.

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

For posterity, I banged of a quick shell script to download all the current provincial and criminal Court dockets as well as the completed cases list - and subsequently grok through them for a hit on 'Yaniv'. It runs daily. Nothing yet, but the moment I get a hit I'll share the relevant docket.

If anybody wants it, I'll be happy to share.

That'd be interesting, actually.

 

[ComeGetSome]

That'd be interesting, actually.

Check your DM then - or should I just drop that here?

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

Check your DM then - or should I just drop that here?

I'd post it here. I've been deleting my DMs after reading since the site compromise leaked DMs. Also, more eyes looking at source code is betterer or something.

 

[ComeGetSome]

Fair enough then.

Caveat: "It runs on my machine" - I did not refine this for any sense of flexibility or usability beyond the simple purpose of downloading and scanning the court dockets and completed cases for "Yaniv" and "Oger" on my machine. I run on a Mac - this should work equally well on Linux or WSL, but no promises. YMMV. You'll need Lynx, wget, and pdfgrep.


---

#!/bin/bash

mkdir -p work
cd work
rm -f *.pdf

declare -a listsOfLists=(
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DAPCindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DASCindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DACCPindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DACCSindex.html"
)

for listOfUrls in "${listsOfLists[@]}"
do
    listOfPdfs="`lynx -dump -nonumbers -hiddenlinks=listonly ${listOfUrls}  | grep pdf`"
    for pdf in "${listOfPdfs}"
    do
        wget ${pdf}
    done
done

clear

echo "Searching all PDF files for Yaniv"
pdfgrep -iH Yaniv *
if [ $? -eq 1 ]
then
    echo "No match found"
fi

echo "Searching all PDF files for Oger"
pdfgrep -iH "Oger, " *
if [ $? -eq 1 ]
then
    echo "No match found"
fi


cd ..

 

[Marvin]

Fair enough then.

Caveat: "It runs on my machine" - I did not refine this for any sense of flexibility or usability beyond the simple purpose of downloading and scanning the court dockets and completed cases for "Yaniv" and "Oger" on my machine. I run on a Mac - this should work equally well on Linux or WSL, but no promises. YMMV. You'll need Lynx, wget, and pdfgrep.


---

#!/bin/bash

mkdir -p work
cd work
rm -f *.pdf

declare -a listsOfLists=(
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DAPCindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DASCindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DACCPindex.html"
    "https://justice.gov.bc.ca/courts/court-lists/criminal/DACCSindex.html"
)

for listOfUrls in "${listsOfLists[@]}"
do
    listOfPdfs="`lynx -dump -nonumbers -hiddenlinks=listonly ${listOfUrls}  | grep pdf`"
    for pdf in "${listOfPdfs}"
    do
        wget ${pdf}
    done
done

clear

echo "Searching all PDF files for Yaniv"
pdfgrep -iH Yaniv *
if [ $? -eq 1 ]
then
    echo "No match found"
fi

echo "Searching all PDF files for Oger"
pdfgrep -iH "Oger, " *
if [ $? -eq 1 ]
then
    echo "No match found"
fi


cd ..

Why the different regex for Oger vs Yaniv?

 

[ComeGetSome]

Why the different regex for Oger vs Yaniv?

Simply searching for "Oger" would match on Roger. I could have fixed it with more regex foo or just add the comma that would be there in this specific case. Since it's quick and dirty, I didn't bother going beyond looking for the known specific string.

Feel free to update.

 

[C4605]

(apologies if this is redundant)

On the "Restraining Order" front - I'm marginally familiar with this as I've had family go through the process. We don't call them "restraining orders" but rather "protection orders". There's two types of "retraining orders" in BC: a "Family Law Protection Order" and a "Peace Bond".

(ref: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/crime-prevention/protection-order-registry/qa)

The FLPO doesn't apply in this case, which moves us right along to the peace bond. Your first stop is via the police. File a report, the police will investigate, forward information and a recommendation to the crown, who in turn may proceed with a criminal hearing to grant a peace bond. There is an alternative method (that one must be exhausted first) through some form of private prosecution. I know nothing of "laying an information" save for the information obtained via https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/ho...ase/private-prosecution-laying-information-bc


The thing that Yaniv posted is based upon https://www.supremecourtbc.ca/sites/default/files/web/forms/Form-35.pdf - it's a generic framing of a judicial order that both parties agree upon and the justice signs off on. What Yaniv has put forth is not what would I believe would constitute an application for a peace bond. It also does not appear to be any form of a "private prosecution".

I call shenanigans of the cartroonish variety.

Definitely shenanigans. If they aren't shenanigans she's in for a world of hurt. She's basically seeking an injunction instead of a protection order. But an injunction poses tons of problems for her:

1) Injunctions are not easily granted and require the party to come to the court "with clean hands"; that is having not violated the rights of the other party. Pretty sure Donald Smith would have something to say about that.

2) As I mentioned before, there's no way she's getting it through a without-notice application. She would also need to be "full and frank" with the judge, which seems about as likely as her actually being pregnant. If she isn't, that is grounds to have the injunction set aside.

3) Other than an injunction to cease defaming her, she doesn't meet the tests for an injunction. Donald would raise that once the injunction is served on him.

4) Getting an injunction before a judgment would require her to promise the court that she would pay any damages if the injunction is later set aside.

Points 2 and 4 could combine for a hilariously catastrophic outcome for Jessica. She could go into the without-notice hearing and lie her fat ass off to sneak the injunction through. That injunction would inevitably be set aside and she would get whacked with costs, damages, and a very angry judge.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Marvin]

Simply searching for "Oger" would match on Roger. I could have fixed it with more regex foo or just add the comma that would be there in this specific case. Since it's quick and dirty, I didn't bother going beyond looking for the known specific string.

Feel free to update.

Ah, the enemy of the better solution is one that's just good enough.

You might try: ([^R]|())Oger

I *believe* that should match Oger proceeded by either any character but R or no character. But I might be fucking up my regexes.

 

[ComeGetSome]

Ah, the enemy of the better solution is one that's just good enough.

You might try: ([^R]|())Oger

I *believe* that should match Oger proceeded by either any character but R or no character. But I might be fucking up my regexes.

The enemy.of budgets and delivery estimates is always striving for the better solution, regardless of the need

In this case, just good enough was fine for my need. As I said, feel free to run with it and improve it. Do share your improvements tho. Maybe we need a Kiwi-themed gist?

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

In this case, just good enough was fine for my need. As I said, feel free to run with it and improve it. Do share your improvements tho. Maybe we need a Kiwi-themed gist?

Sorry dude, I thought if you pasted it in here people would come up with improvements and not attack you for hacking stuff.

People called Doctor Frankenstein a hacker but as we all know his creations worked fine in the wild, apart from a few teething troubles you'd expect in a project like that. You're better off getting your creation out into the world early where people can criticize it and it can rip their heads off instead of waiting until it's perfect. Release early, move fast, move often.

 

[Brillig]

[/QUOTE]

Unless one reports it too welfare.

You seriously think he is on welfare? If he is (which I highly doubt and have explained above) he couldn't possibly be supporting the lifestyle he lives or he'd be done for fraud. Of course the financial assistance worker would know what's going on in the media about Jonny's case if he had one open.

Welfare and other public benefits are really really hard to get here thanks to the tightening up of welfare eligibility modeled in the USA in the mid-90's. Disability allowances are also almost impossible and that includes the disability tax exemption.

Other people on welfare love to report those they think are cheating the system to draw attention from themselves, lol. This doesn't work btw.

Also you can rest assured that BC welfare fraud investigators LOVE their jobs. Jonnyboy has no doubt been reported repeatedly but due to the privacy act, a worker may not even confirm whether or not they've ever heard of the person being reported. People can go to prison for welfare fraud.

 

[Twinkie]

I don't know about Canada but it's certainly not difficult to get welfare (which is not the same thing as disability) in the U.S.

He's a deranged mentally ill tranny, why shouldn't he qualify for it? Plus muh anxiety muh depression

 

[Brillig]

I don't know about Canada but it's certainly not difficult to get welfare (which is not the same thing as disability) in the U.S.

He's a deranged mentally ill tranny, why shouldn't he qualify for it? Plus muh anxiety muh depression

I've posted repeatedly above about the rules and regs of welfare. They are all on the net. He would not qualify for any form of welfare benefit in BC or Canada IF the info we have about him is true. If you have other info about him that suggests he may have qualified, please show.

Rather than speculating that Canada must be just like the US, check out the facts.

Anyway, Canada copied the USA's more stringent qualifiers for welfare and disability benefits in the 90's.. Maybe the problem is that no one has researched the actual situation in the US. But Yaniv is in BC Canada so the US rules are completely irrelevant.

In any case, it is not easy to get welfare or other benefits in BC. This has been the case since the 1980's as far as I'm aware. With the coming of digitization, fraud became increasingly impossible. BC is not large. If someone was unjustifiably ineligible for welfare, people would report them; workers read the news to scope out pretenders, even watch the vehicles of clients being picked up or dropped off or what car they are driving. Everyone is subject to unscheduled home visits by workers or investigators. There are a ton of mandatory checks required before approval. Stacks of paper documents have to filed/scanned before approval. Applicants must provide tons of ID plus akas, bank, tax and housing statements as well.

If he was in any way unemployable or disabled, full documentation would have to be provided. It's pretty apparent that he's merely a hypochondriac. It would be horrifying to know that just because someone says they're a sort of trans that that would make them eligible for sick or disability benefits. I'll have to see if I can get come IRL confirmation on that though.

There's always been this conservative idea going around that state welfare agencies hand out benefits like candy.

 

[Twinkie]

lol at welfare fraud becoming "increasingly impossible". sure jan.

First of all, nothing you've said sounds like it would apply to people who get benefits for mental illness which is what I was suggesting he'd be on benefits for. How do these "watchers" determine that you're faking mental illness? What does mental illness "look like?"

The rest of what you're describing sounds like worker's comp fraud or something, anyway. Disability/welfare absolutely does not work like you are describing (in America). At all, other than the bit about lots of paperwork and documentation including medical in the case of disability which is to be expected in the approval process. "Watchers??" lol wut? Surprise home visits? Absolutely NOT. I have worked on disability claims for years and never seen anything remotely like what you're describing. And it's way easier to get welfare than to get disability so none of what you said would apply to welfare, either.

edit: Seriously I re-read your post and what you're describing sounds rather like the measures that are taken to combat worker's comp insurance fraud (and it's not the government that does that). To the point that I'm wondering if you're confusing these two very different things, and if you're not, I'm kind of appalled. I want to say again that disabled/poor people in America are absolutely not subjected to surprise home visits and being watched to make sure they're not committing fraud, that's ridiculous. I mean, if they were subjected to that there'd be a lot less fraud but people aren't subjected to that for a reason, because it's really fucked up and possibly unconsitutional? wtf canada

 

[Brillig]

lol at welfare fraud becoming "increasingly impossible". sure jan.

First of all, nothing you've said sounds like it would apply to people who get benefits for mental illness which is what I was suggesting he'd be on benefits for. How do these "watchers" determine that you're faking mental illness? What does mental illness "look like?"

The rest of what you're describing sounds like worker's comp fraud or something, anyway. Disability/welfare absolutely does not work like you are describing (in America). At all, other than the bit about lots of paperwork and documentation including medical in the case of disability which is to be expected in the approval process. "Watchers??" lol wut? Surprise home visits? Absolutely NOT. I have worked on disability claims for years and never seen anything remotely like what you're describing. And it's way easier to get welfare than to get disability so none of what you said would apply to welfare, either.

Once again, I'm talking about Canada. Not only did I do the research I walked the walk both sides of the desk and have been familiar with these laws since 1982. I don't claim to know how it works in the USA now, why claim you think Canada is now like the USA or that you know anything about it at all? All states are different, whereas I am talking about almost universal Canadian eligibility criteria for provincial welfare and disability benefits both provincial and federal.

A doctor's statement of many pages is required for any disability whether mental or physical. A doctor's statement is used to process the applications of all benefits programs. I am talking about BC Income Assistance not Worker's Compensation: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/compensation/geca.html

Here's a post of mine that refers back to the post I made of all the reasons why I highly doubt Yaniv receives any state benefits: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/jonat...-british-columbia.49790/page-723#post-5492579

I didn't cover Canada Pension Disability because I believe Yaniv is too young (and not a wage slave) to have paid enough into this program to qualify, rather only BC People with Disabilities allowance (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/...ation-and-application/designation-application).

If you have any other information or first person knowledge of how income benefits work in Canada, please post it here.

 

[Twinkie]

I don't know if he gets benefits or not and if he did I assumed it would be the first one you listed, which looks like the American equivalent of SSI. (not SSDI)

And if he was on that, and if it's based on the US system as you claimed, he would not be subjected to being watched and surprise home visits. No one in the American system is treated like that. It isn't done here, you are incorrect.

The main thing I was pointing out was that either
a) you have confused worker's comp insurance fraud countermeasures with disability/welfare
or
b) canada is really fucked up in its treatment of disabled/poor people. because that doesn't happen in america, and THAT was my point because you said your system was modeled off of ours.

 

[Brillig]

I don't know if he gets benefits or not and if he did I assumed it would be the first one you listed, which looks like the American equivalent of SSI. (not SSDI)

And if he was on that, and if it's based on the US system as you claimed, he would not be subjected to being watched and surprise home visits. No one in the American system is treated like that. It isn't done here, you are incorrect.

The main thing I was pointing out was that either
a) you have confused worker's comp insurance fraud countermeasures with disability/welfare
or
b) canada is really fucked up in its treatment of disabled/poor people. because that doesn't happen in america, and THAT was my point because you said your system was modeled off of ours.

I gave you the actual Canadian info as it is now (showing that I am not confused about Canadian programs but you are), regardless of what US programs may be like now, as I said above. So it is unclear to me how you think that American worker's comp is relevant to any Canadian benefits program that exists now or why I would have confused that with Canadian programs. I don't know anything about US programs so how could I confuse your progs with ours? I have not claimed to know anything about US programs however except as regards Canadian gov types rejoicing that as of 1999 or so Canada's rules would be as tight or tighter than they were in the states.

You said originally that since welfare is easy to get in the US of A, it must be easy to get in Canada too. I gave you the reasons showing why I see that it is not easy to get in Canada.

I've seen what your streets in the USA look like and I'm pretty sure I know at least a little about how the USA treats disabled, poor, women, immigrants etc. regardless of what programs you have. I've had more than one American friend tell me how impossible it is to get welfare disability in some states, so difficult that they have to hire lawyers to appeal. Fact is, I don't make the rules, I just researched them and you have the opportunity to do that do too using the links that I posted, the only info that actually applies to Yaniv as he in BC, Canada not the states.

Surely now you recognise that what I said at first is that US law is not applicable in Canada as far as income benefits are concerned or anything else. Why would you insinuate that I could be bothered not to tell the truth about this? There’s no gain for me making up crap about this man or his life.

I feel that this could have been avoided if you were reading the full thread and if you had read my posts suggesting people stop uselessly speculating about whether or not Yaniv was on welfare.

USA

Why is it so difficult to get disability benefits? | DisabilityBenefitsHome.com

www.disabilitybenefitshome.com

Can I Collect SSDI & a Job Disability Pension at the Same Time?

Can I Collect SSDI & a Job Disability Pension at the Same Time?. Although Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is designed to provide income to those who are restricted from working due to a disability, it may not be enough. Fortunately, if you receive SSDI you are not prohibited from...

pocketsense.com

Canada BC Employment and Assistance: fraud and eligibility

Clicklaw: BC Employment and Assistance: Fraud and Consequences

Explains what fraud is, and what can happen if the Ministry determines that someone has committed fraud.

www.clicklaw.bc.ca

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/policies-for-government/bcea-policy-and-procedure-manual/eligibility/information-and-verification

Now that Yaniv has been charged $6000, one wonders what BC Employment and Assistance will think of that.

 

[Dizzydent]

I gave you the actual Canadian info as it is now (showing that I am not confused about Canadian programs but you are), regardless of what US programs may be like now, as I said above. So it is unclear to me how you think that American worker's comp is relevant to any Canadian benefits program that exists now or why I would have confused that with Canadian programs. I don't know anything about US programs so how could I confuse your progs with ours? I have not claimed to know anything about US programs however except as regards Canadian gov types rejoicing that as of 1999 or so Canada's rules would be as tight or tighter than they were in the states.

You said originally that since welfare is easy to get in the US of A, it must be easy to get in Canada too. I gave you the reasons showing why I see that it is not easy to get in Canada.

I've seen what your streets in the USA look like and I'm pretty sure I know at least a little about how the USA treats disabled, poor, women, immigrants etc. regardless of what programs you have. I've had more than one American friend tell me how impossible it is to get welfare disability in some states, so difficult that they have to hire lawyers to appeal. Fact is, I don't make the rules, I just researched them and you have the opportunity to do that do too using the links that I posted, the only info that actually applies to Yaniv as he in BC, Canada not the states.

Surely now you recognise that what I said at first is that US law is not applicable in Canada as far as income benefits are concerned or anything else. Why would you insinuate that I could be bothered not to tell the truth about this? There’s no gain for me making up crap about this man or his life.

I feel that this could have been avoided if you were reading the full thread and if you had read my posts suggesting people stop uselessly speculating about whether or not Yaniv was on welfare.

USA

Why is it so difficult to get disability benefits? | DisabilityBenefitsHome.com

www.disabilitybenefitshome.com

Can I Collect SSDI & a Job Disability Pension at the Same Time?

Can I Collect SSDI & a Job Disability Pension at the Same Time?. Although Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is designed to provide income to those who are restricted from working due to a disability, it may not be enough. Fortunately, if you receive SSDI you are not prohibited from...

pocketsense.com

Canada BC Employment and Assistance: fraud and eligibility

Clicklaw: BC Employment and Assistance: Fraud and Consequences

Explains what fraud is, and what can happen if the Ministry determines that someone has committed fraud.

www.clicklaw.bc.ca

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/policies-for-government/bcea-policy-and-procedure-manual/eligibility/information-and-verification

Now that Yaniv has been charged $6000, one wonders what BC Employment and Assistance will think of that.

Please don't take anything this person is saying as fact. Everything he has said about the Canadian welfare and disability system is so wrong I had to comment just cause I dont want anyone believing this guys bullshit.

 

[Twinkie]

I gave you the actual Canadian info as it is now (showing that I am not confused about Canadian programs but you are), regardless of what US programs may be like now, as I said above. So it is unclear to me how you think that American worker's comp is relevant to any Canadian benefits program that exists now or why I would have confused that with Canadian programs. I don't know anything about US programs so how could I confuse your progs with ours? I have not claimed to know anything about US programs however except as regards Canadian gov types rejoicing that as of 1999 or so Canada's rules would be as tight or tighter than they were in the states.

You said originally that since welfare is easy to get in the US of A, it must be easy to get in Canada too. I gave you the reasons showing why I see that it is not easy to get in Canada.

I've seen what your streets in the USA look like and I'm pretty sure I know at least a little about how the USA treats disabled, poor, women, immigrants etc. regardless of what programs you have. I've had more than one American friend tell me how impossible it is to get welfare disability in some states, so difficult that they have to hire lawyers to appeal. Fact is, I don't make the rules, I just researched them and you have the opportunity to do that do too using the links that I posted, the only info that actually applies to Yaniv as he in BC, Canada not the states.

Surely now you recognise that what I said at first is that US law is not applicable in Canada as far as income benefits are concerned or anything else. Why would you insinuate that I could be bothered not to tell the truth about this? There’s no gain for me making up crap about this man or his life.

I feel that this could have been avoided if you were reading the full thread and if you had read my posts suggesting people stop uselessly speculating about whether or not Yaniv was on welfare.

lol calm down. I only replied to you in the first place because you repeatedly emphasized that your system is based on ours, but you went on to describe a system that works nothing like ours and I felt that was worth pointing out. I have literally processed disability claims as my job but okay you have a few friends who were denied when they applied (hint: pretty much everyone is denied the first time, they don't hand it out like candy, after all). That doesn't mean it's impossible to get, and that doesn't mean fraud is impossible. If you're going to post huge buttmad walls of text because I don't know anything about the Canadian system (which I never claimed to), maybe don't be a hypocrite and stop claiming you know anything about the American system, it's embarrassing.