Inactive Chloe Sagal / John Paul Neumann - Self-Immolated to Protest The US Mental Health System. Currently Being Exploited by her "Allies".

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SatanicPanic!AtTheDisco

Burdizzo Punk
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Not saying this to start a fight, I'm just genuinely confused about how folks think anyone from the PDX trans community could organize the funeral. There was no will, of course, so rights to her body and funeral and all that automatically go to the family, right?

I make no secret I had a restraining order against her at the end and we weren't on good terms, but I also make no secret that I considered her a brilliant if troubled genius. I would have tried to arrange something for her if I thought I had any legal recourse to do so. Like, I couldn't personally afford it, but I know people that could help.

As far as I know, the family is holding a family-only private service out of state. Chloe was not on speaking terms with any of them as far as I know; in the two years I was in her life she never contacted any of them and just wrote them off as "very religious and not understanding."

I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.
 

Optimus Prime

Resident KF Transformers Expert
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I have little to no sympathy for people who deliberately create their own misery and drama. Chloe didn't have to set herself on fire. Despite what she wrote there was options for her. Instead of actually putting effort into bettering her life, she chose to commit suicide in a very public way that will traumatize the good samaritans forced to put out the fire for a good chunk of their lives.

That's selfish and a first-class asshole move.

Oh, certainly, the whole problem was that every attempt to get Chloe help, she fought against - it wasn't just mental health care they wanted, it was mental health care on their terms alone. The trigger for the self-immolation was her getting kicked out of her last home because the people there didn't want to deal with her bullshit anymore.

So after years of both rejection from 'friends' for very good reasons as well as generally having lost attention from the internet (even Kiwi Farms pretty much had forgotten she existed and we have quite a reputation for obsessively cataloging every single thing the rat king says and does), the idea here was a self-immolating "fuck you" in a literal blaze of glory to pretty much anyone and everything that had tried to help her - including the good Samaritans as you mention. IIRC, one of the last things Chloe actually said was 'I didn't think it would hurt this bad' with regards to being on fire, indicating that she also thought it would be a QUICK death that was probably relatively painless instead of just eating a bullet.

I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.

I think it's also a good move for the family to pretty much lock out any element from the outside because this prevents further attempts from the ratking to turn Chloe into a post-mortem martyr for their anti-cultural crusade. There are people like you who obviously have benevolent intentions, but a greater number would just show up claiming to be friends of Chloe and use the funeral as a soapbox to attack GG/KF instead.
 

Oh Long Johnson

Look Silky, he done pulled out a whip
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I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.
When dealing with people who are extraordinarily mentally ill, it is oftentimes best to disregard their preferred narrative. I imagine Chloe had few endearing things to say about you towards the end, so it shouldn't be such a stretch to guess while there might be truth in some of her stories, objective reality won't be found using Chloe's lens.

As far as the whole funeral goes, these things are for the living. If it helps her family come to terms with her death by blaming her friends, lovers and enablers out in Portland, well, we all do what we have to, so when the quiet times come and they reflect on Chloe's life, her death, their actions and all the unresolved baggage that goes with it, anything that helps not make the same choice Chloe did is all for the good.

Unless her family is full of lolcows as well. If that's the case, lol drink bleach, faggots.
 

Yellow Yam Scam

not the kind of boy you're looking for
True & Honest Fan
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When dealing with people who are extraordinarily mentally ill, it is oftentimes best to disregard their preferred narrative. I imagine Chloe had few endearing things to say about you towards the end, so it shouldn't be such a stretch to guess while there might be truth in some of her stories, objective reality won't be found using Chloe's lens.

As far as the whole funeral goes, these things are for the living. If it helps her family come to terms with her death by blaming her friends, lovers and enablers out in Portland, well, we all do what we have to, so when the quiet times come and they reflect on Chloe's life, her death, their actions and all the unresolved baggage that goes with it, anything that helps not make the same choice Chloe did is all for the good.

Unless her family is full of lolcows as well. If that's the case, lol drink bleach, faggots.

Her parents actually were strict Lutherans. No idea if that meant they actually would have been understanding or not though, apart from the assumption based on their what I know about the religion.

@SatanicPanic!AtTheDisco
Now that Chloe is gone, can you clear something up? Were you in Chloe's life around the time that the "scandal" involving Alistar Pinsoff's article happened?
 

Sissy Galvez

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Not saying this to start a fight, I'm just genuinely confused about how folks think anyone from the PDX trans community could organize the funeral. There was no will, of course, so rights to her body and funeral and all that automatically go to the family, right?

I make no secret I had a restraining order against her at the end and we weren't on good terms, but I also make no secret that I considered her a brilliant if troubled genius. I would have tried to arrange something for her if I thought I had any legal recourse to do so. Like, I couldn't personally afford it, but I know people that could help.

As far as I know, the family is holding a family-only private service out of state. Chloe was not on speaking terms with any of them as far as I know; in the two years I was in her life she never contacted any of them and just wrote them off as "very religious and not understanding."

I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.
So sad, a family lost their soon to troonism and became a complete stranger to them.
 

AnOminous

i will eat your fucking soul
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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Not saying this to start a fight, I'm just genuinely confused about how folks think anyone from the PDX trans community could organize the funeral. There was no will, of course, so rights to her body and funeral and all that automatically go to the family, right?

I make no secret I had a restraining order against her at the end and we weren't on good terms, but I also make no secret that I considered her a brilliant if troubled genius. I would have tried to arrange something for her if I thought I had any legal recourse to do so. Like, I couldn't personally afford it, but I know people that could help.

As far as I know, the family is holding a family-only private service out of state. Chloe was not on speaking terms with any of them as far as I know; in the two years I was in her life she never contacted any of them and just wrote them off as "very religious and not understanding."

I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.

That's actually more understanding than I'm willing to be. I was obviously being mean-spirited with that post. Still, in almost any occasion like this, I've seen people offer to chip in and at least show some respect when someone dies, not just brandish their corpse at randos who had nothing to do with it, who they were already mad at before they even died.

I can understand why people wouldn't be particularly well inclined to Chloe near the end of her life, which was sad as hell, and might not support GFMs and similar money raising, but at the end? They didn't spend a single minute even thinking of helping out with the funeral costs, even to the tune of a dime, unless there are classy people behind the scenes who did and had the decency not to parade it in public. That's highly optimistic though.

I don't think they're burying her in another state, though, if the actual funeral home is doing it. It's in Oregon.

There's possibly a separate private memorial service.

I actually do disagree with overriding someone's will about their own death arrangements, as much as I'm deliberately a rude dick about doing the same to people I don't like. But that's not about their actual expressed will.

I know there's a difference between a legal will and someone's verbal expression of what their will is (the verbal expression carries no legal weight). I just find it hard to imagine anyone doing it after someone's death without it being on some level an expression of spite. And I know a fair amount about spite.
 

SatanicPanic!AtTheDisco

Burdizzo Punk
kiwifarms.net
@SatanicPanic!AtTheDisco
Now that Chloe is gone, can you clear something up? Were you in Chloe's life around the time that the "scandal" involving Alistar Pinsoff's article happened?

Nah, I didn't actually get to know her until nearly a year later. As bonkers as this is gonna sound, Laurelai Bailey (ugh, I know) actually got us in touch in 2014 because apparently Chloe had a crush on me over some article I wrote. So Chloe and I would Skype and she would sing to me and play guitar and make dumb jokes and be adorable until she won me over.

She complained a lot about her living situation and claimed she was on the verge of being homeless. So I offered to let her stay with me to get her back on her feet and producing games again. Unfortunately, neither happened.

I'm not popping in here to try to get any of you to like her or me, and I don't have any illusions about such. Thing is tho, while these outbursts were intense and they became too much for myself and everyone that cared for her, and unfortunately that's most of what's preserved of her existence, but they really wasn't that big a part of her life. When she would have these fits it was like something else was in there, something that seemed as unrecognizable to us as we seemed to her when she was having them. She left bruises on me and wouldn't even remember doing so later.

The rest of the time, most of the time, she was gentle, charming, funny... like a whole different person. I would have done literally anything to dispell that rage or whatever she had and gladly kept the rest but no combination of meds seemed to do the trick.

But anyway, as long as y'all are getting sourced by right wing blogspot hacks like McCain (whose had some weird angry boner about me for like five years now) as an authority on her life I figure someone that knew her IRL should check in.

unless there are classy people behind the scenes who did and had the decency not to parade it in public. That's highly optimistic though.

No offense, and apologies for not being any less vague than this, but I genuinely hope none of you find out what certain classy individuals may or may not be doing.
 
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Stanley_Buttkiss

Covered in pricklies and filled with hisses.
kiwifarms.net
Her parents actually were strict Lutherans. No idea if that meant they actually would have been understanding or not though, apart from the assumption based on their what I know about the religion.

Unfortunately if they're strict Lutherans there's not much wiggle room religiously speaking for acceptance, which is a shame really. Hopefully they're open minded a bit lenient in their faith. Probably not though if they had no contact with Chloe. But, that could be due to her being difficult.

One could hope that they claimed her body and put it to rest for other reasons other than religious obligation.
 

repentance

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Did her family set up that memorial page?

It looks like a generic page which the funeral home may have generated. It wasn't available through either the url or Google cache last night so I assume someone complained about it.

It's not unusual here for a local funeral home to be the first point of contact and make arrangements for either the transportation of a body to another state or for direct cremation and the remains to be sent to another location for a memorial service.

No services were mentioned on the page - not even a "private service" announcement. There is nothing, of course, to stop her friends from organising a memorial service of their own if they feel so inclined.

@SatanicPanic!AtTheDisco Not sure whether you're aware of it but Chloe's parents did try to track her down through here in the last couple of years, so they did still think about her and want to know how she was doing.
 
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AnOminous

i will eat your fucking soul
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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But anyway, as long as y'all are getting sourced by right wing blogspot hacks like McCain (whose had some weird angry boner about me for like five years now) as an authority on her life I figure someone that knew her IRL should check in.

Not to elaborate on someone who deserves as little attention as he usually gets, but that guy is fucking retarded.
 

Smutley

Kill Count: 2
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That's actually really sad.
Having to turn to KF for help tracking your kid down.

We're better at it than most journalists these days, and we're cheaper than a Private Eye. More parents should use us to keep tabs on their little worthless disappointments so they don't have to spend the time to do it in person, the energy of dealing with them, and the money on finding them.
 

RodgerDodger

True & Honest Fan
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That's interesting. I'm sure the fluff piece said that the family were holding a private memorial service out of state, yet that notice is from a local funeral home.

Looks like she died on the Tuesday, so she survived a matter of hours at most.

Most likely reason is the family made arrangements to release to body to a local funeral home. Chances are the remains are to be cremated. It makes the most sense. It is far cheaper and easier to creamate locally than it is to ship a body cross country. And as sick or sad as this sounds, it’s not like they were going to be able to have an open casket funeral service. Besides about the only “last desire” anybody can be certain of with regard to the deceased, was the rather disturbingly clearly expressed desire to be cremated. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

Ah, sensei RSM. Practically an honorary kiwi, though with less laughter and more 'sweet Jesus, these people are insane'.

And a followup: http://theothermccain.com/2018/06/2...t-violent-transgender-psychos-public-suicide/

Archived: http://archive.md/qWZRM

Dear lord this dude is an idiot. I know this guy is supposedly “Right Wing”, but most Conservatives and Right Wingers have never heard of him and have no idea who he is. He’s yet another low tier asshole with a keyboard. The type that in the old days would be writing laughable angry and racist letters to the editor of the local news rag.

Not saying this to start a fight, I'm just genuinely confused about how folks think anyone from the PDX trans community could organize the funeral. There was no will, of course, so rights to her body and funeral and all that automatically go to the family, right?

I make no secret I had a restraining order against her at the end and we weren't on good terms, but I also make no secret that I considered her a brilliant if troubled genius. I would have tried to arrange something for her if I thought I had any legal recourse to do so. Like, I couldn't personally afford it, but I know people that could help.

As far as I know, the family is holding a family-only private service out of state. Chloe was not on speaking terms with any of them as far as I know; in the two years I was in her life she never contacted any of them and just wrote them off as "very religious and not understanding."

I don't think the whole "taking her to another state and burying her under her old name" thing is being done to "spite" anyone; this whole chapter of her life must be completely alien to them. I have no doubt they would have behaved in a similar manner (banning all her friends and lovers from the funeral) if she had been a gay man or bisexual man with a male partner, based on what she told me about them.

Generally the authorities will release a body to friends for burial if there is no family to claim it, and someone is willing to give a proper burial. Yes there are legalities, and family takes precedence always, but at the end of the days the authorities would prefer a proper funeral than another poor soul added to Potters Field.

Oh, certainly, the whole problem was that every attempt to get Chloe help, she fought against - it wasn't just mental health care they wanted, it was mental health care on their terms alone. The trigger for the self-immolation was her getting kicked out of her last home because the people there didn't want to deal with her bullshit anymore.

So after years of both rejection from 'friends' for very good reasons as well as generally having lost attention from the internet (even Kiwi Farms pretty much had forgotten she existed and we have quite a reputation for obsessively cataloging every single thing the rat king says and does), the idea here was a self-immolating "fuck you" in a literal blaze of glory to pretty much anyone and everything that had tried to help her - including the good Samaritans as you mention. IIRC, one of the last things Chloe actually said was 'I didn't think it would hurt this bad' with regards to being on fire, indicating that she also thought it would be a QUICK death that was probably relatively painless instead of just eating a bullet.



I think it's also a good move for the family to pretty much lock out any element from the outside because this prevents further attempts from the ratking to turn Chloe into a post-mortem martyr for their anti-cultural crusade. There are people like you who obviously have benevolent intentions, but a greater number would just show up claiming to be friends of Chloe and use the funeral as a soapbox to attack GG/KF instead.

The “help on their terms” is a rather common displayed trait in the severely mentally ill. It’s the true Paranoid component of classic Paranoid Schizophrenia. (Which I am sure is an old and devalued term, but seems to fit here.) And the cold hard truth is every medical, emergency services and mental health professional knew exactly what they were looking at and dealing with with Chloe. It sounds cruel, but one of the first realities you learn is You can’t save everybody. Sometimes the damage or trauma or sickness is just too much. We are taught to Triage quickly, efficiently and accurately. You do everything you can to render aid. But you know almost instantly where the hopeless cases lie. And Chloe was one of the most clearly apparent hopeless cases that I have ever seen. In days gone by Chloe would have been on the receiving end of the best State Run Mental Health Care had to offer. Electro Shock Therapy and almost certainly a Frontal Lobotomy. In the modern era their choices were wander the streets until nature or madness takes its course. Or be forever restrained, tied to a bed and forcibly medicated into senselessness. Some choices, eh?
 

zedkissed60

"I'm not retracting shit."
True & Honest Fan
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Neumann petitioned to change his name in Massachusetts in 2014, but the case was administratively dismissed last month.

IMG_3010.jpg

see https://www.mass.gov/supplemental-r...upplemental-probate-and-family-court-rule-408

There appears to be no name change petition for him in Cook County IL, nor is there a petition in Oregon, Wisconsin, Washington, or Maricopa County AZ.
 

Hellfire

Sugar Cubes
True & Honest Fan
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I don't remember if it was discussed in this thread, but around the time of Chloe's 2016 death threats to Brianna Wu and Zinnia Jones there was the leak of 2014-2015 Skype logs from what turned out to be was Zoe Quinn's secret anti-Gamergate group. Members of this group were engaging with Chloe while secretly discussing her and her actions in their chat rooms. The group collectively love bombed Chloe for months, then Chloe did a combination of things in early January 2015 that angered this group and they all began shunning her. (The kicker is this same group became the unpaid workers for Zoe's "support group" scam Crash Override Network, and the logs were released because one of them likely used his position with CON to sexually harass 20+ women, Zoe lied and tried to say he wasn't part of the group)

I went through the Skype logs and the Trello for the group and extracted the content about Chloe over in the Zoe Quinn thread. Only one member of this chat group had the balls to inform Chloe why people were "choosing not to interact" with her, and he said that Chloe had become "abusive" for her actions against Brianna Wu. Chloe argued with him in January and February 2015 about being labeled "abusive," Chloe continued their fight in 2016 around the time of the Wu/Jones death threats.

Jake Alley aka "Secretgamergrrl" is one of the buzzards that has been trying to exploit Chloe's suicide to attack this forum and for his own personal gain. Jake was part of this chat group, and he followed the rest of the group when they decided to cut contact with Chloe in January 2015. Jake tweeted something tonight where he is trying to use Chloe's suicide to get people to unblock him and talk to him on Twitter, which prompted me to take a closer look at what exactly his interactions with Chloe were.

Jake's last tweets about Chloe Sagal were in August 2016 and were an attack on her regarding the behavior towards Wu and Jones. He called Chloe "downright monstrous," said she was a terrorist that was targeting a "list of random targets" and accused her of trying to "extort favors" from them, and he accused Chloe of helping to stigmatize mental illness and expose mentally ill people to "increased bigotry" because Chloe had blamed her actions on mental illnesses.
http://archive.md/Qi6lu
http://archive.md/MSoe3
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