Chris and gender issues -

[Dormiebasne]

considering his extreme, unhealthy attachment to his mother

Chris would drop Barb like a radioactive scorpion if a sweetheart appeared at his door to whisk him away. He's attached to Barb because she's all he has, and the fact he has no choice.

Perhaps "relationship with" would be a better phrasing? The mention of SotL had me thinking about serial killers when I wrote that, so my mind was partly fixated on Ed Gein, who, by all accounts, definitely had an inordinate attachment to his mother. But, at any rate, I feel like having Barb as a mother could easily result in a person having a seriously weird concept of/relationship with femininity.

 

[timtommy]

My 2 cents on his sexuality. Perhaps a little unconventional.

In his childhood and adolescence, a lot of boys made fun of him, and some girls were nice to him. He is not good at social cues, so he learned that "boy bad, girl good" was an effective way of sorting people for their future interactions. This may also have been effected by how his parents treated him.

So now he hates all men. He discovers his sexuality by all accounts at a late age. He finds himself attracted to girls, maybe boys too. He also has been told by his parents that he should be attracted to girls. He also realizes on some level he needs taking care of. That has always been his mother's job, a woman's job. This further increases the "boy bad, girl good" reaction.

Then comes the sweetheart search. I do believe that noviophobia is really something in his mind. He legitimately wants a sweetheart to take care of him, and he sees all guys as competition. More "boy bad, girl good".

Enter the trolls. Trolls find out that he has this reaction, and take the approach of being confrontational if they are guys, and trying to be friendly if they are girls. It is a crazy upside-down period in his life, when he is living in a world almost entirely constructed by a few trolls, but he receives a lot of aggression from males, and sympathy (even if it is fake) from girls. The trolls had to use "boy bad, girl good" to communicate with him, and the end result is that they further exaggerate it.

Next comes a period of loneliness and isolation. He no longer has these sympathetic girls around him. He knows on some level that he has driven them away. Now the "boy bad, girl good" really starts to affect him. He misses interacting with girls. He believes that boys are bad, he is a boy, and may think that this has caused him problems, and may have driven away girls. It becomes unsustainable to live openly as a member of a group of people he has begun to hate. Also, like anybody, he begins to emulate the people he likes/admires. Add all of that up, and what do you get?

Tomgirl!

Thoughts?

 

[Burning Love]

My 2 cents on his sexuality. Perhaps a little unconventional.

In his childhood and adolescence, a lot of boys made fun of him, and some girls were nice to him. He is not good at social cues, so he learned that "boy bad, girl good" was an effective way of sorting people for their future interactions. This may also have been effected by how his parents treated him.

So now he hates all men. He discovers his sexuality by all accounts at a late age. He finds himself attracted to girls, maybe boys too. He also has been told by his parents that he should be attracted to girls. He also realizes on some level he needs taking care of. That has always been his mother's job, a woman's job. This further increases the "boy bad, girl good" reaction.

Then comes the sweetheart search. I do believe that noviophobia is really something in his mind. He legitimately wants a sweetheart to take care of him, and he sees all guys as competition. More "boy bad, girl good".

Enter the trolls. Trolls find out that he has this reaction, and take the approach of being confrontational if they are guys, and trying to be friendly if they are girls. It is a crazy upside-down period in his life, when he is living in a world almost entirely constructed by a few trolls, but he receives a lot of aggression from males, and sympathy (even if it is fake) from girls. The trolls had to use "boy bad, girl good" to communicate with him, and the end result is that they further exaggerate it.

Next comes a period of loneliness and isolation. He no longer has these sympathetic girls around him. He knows on some level that he has driven them away. Now the "boy bad, girl good" really starts to affect him. He misses interacting with girls. He believes that boys are bad, he is a boy, and may think that this has caused him problems, and may have driven away girls. It becomes unsustainable to live openly as a member of a group of people he has begun to hate. Also, like anybody, he begins to emulate the people he likes/admires. Add all of that up, and what do you get?

Tomgirl!

Thoughts?

That is actually pretty fabulous~

 

[Captain Cid]

I know some people may get tired of hearing me push this, but I firmly believe Chris has Klinefelter Syndrome. Also known as XXY syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome

In short, it's an issue where chromosome segregation does not occur properly after conception and the afflicted is left with 2 X chromosomes (like a female) but 1 Y. Men usually are XY.

Chris really fits this to an M and S. Improper cell cycle control and chromosome segregation is more common with the progeny of parents of advanced age. Look at the signs and symptoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelte ... d_symptoms

Particularly:

As babies and children, XXY males may have weaker muscles and reduced strength. As they grow older, they tend to become taller than average. They may have less muscle control and coordination than other boys their age.

During puberty, the physical traits of the syndrome become more evident; because these boys do not produce as much testosterone as other boys, they have a less muscular body, less facial and body hair, and broader hips. As teens, XXY males may have larger breasts, weaker bones, and a lower energy level than other boys.

By adulthood, XXY males look similar to males without the condition, although they are often taller. In adults, possible characteristics vary widely and include little to no signs of affectedness, a lanky, youthful build and facial appearance, or a rounded body type with some degree of gynecomastia (increased breast tissue). Gynecomastia is present to some extent in about a third of affected individuals, a slightly higher percentage than in the XY population.

This is all speclation because, as the article also states, only a karyotype test can truly determine this...though it is possible to diagnose based on physical attributes. If Chris is afflicted with this, it explains a lot, particularly his gender and sexuality issues.

But I could be totally wrong here. His baldness issues seem to indicate he is XY and not XXY, but even women can experience hair loss.

 

[Burning Love]

I know some people may get tired of hearing me push this, but I firmly believe Chris has Klinefelter Syndrome. Also known as XXY syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome

In short, it's an issue where chromosome segregation does not occur properly after conception and the afflicted is left with 2 X chromosomes (like a female) but 1 Y. Men usually are XY.

Chris really fits this to an M and S. Improper cell cycle control and chromosome segregation is more common with the progeny of parents of advanced age. Look at the signs and symptoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelte ... d_symptoms

Particularly:

As babies and children, XXY males may have weaker muscles and reduced strength. As they grow older, they tend to become taller than average. They may have less muscle control and coordination than other boys their age.

During puberty, the physical traits of the syndrome become more evident; because these boys do not produce as much testosterone as other boys, they have a less muscular body, less facial and body hair, and broader hips. As teens, XXY males may have larger breasts, weaker bones, and a lower energy level than other boys.

By adulthood, XXY males look similar to males without the condition, although they are often taller. In adults, possible characteristics vary widely and include little to no signs of affectedness, a lanky, youthful build and facial appearance, or a rounded body type with some degree of gynecomastia (increased breast tissue). Gynecomastia is present to some extent in about a third of affected individuals, a slightly higher percentage than in the XY population.

This is all speclation because, as the article also states, only a karyotype test can truly determine this...though it is possible to diagnose based on physical attributes. If Chris is afflicted with this, it explains a lot, particularly his gender and sexuality issues.

But I could be totally wrong here. His baldness issues seem to indicate he is XY and not XXY, but even women can experience hair loss.

I've met only one person with Klinefelter Syndrome, and Chris-chan does not come close. Then, with a pool as limited as a single person, that's to be expected, but I think it's kind of unlikely. It's possible, at least.

 

[Captain Cid]

I've met only one person with Klinefelter Syndrome, and Our Pet Lolcow does not come close. Then, with a pool as limited as a single person, that's to be expected, but I think it's kind of unlikely. It's possible, at least.

I understand, but according to that same article:

The degree to which XXY males are affected, both physically and developmentally, differs widely from person to person.

Personally, I think the guy in that photo has the same body as Chris. There's a distinct similarity. This is, however, something we will never know for certain because you couldn't even pay Chris to go to a doctor and get tested for this. Too much authority for him to handle.

 

[Burning Love]

I've met only one person with Klinefelter Syndrome, and Our Pet Lolcow does not come close. Then, with a pool as limited as a single person, that's to be expected, but I think it's kind of unlikely. It's possible, at least.

I understand, but according to that same article:

The degree to which XXY males are affected, both physically and developmentally, differs widely from person to person.

Personally, I think the guy in that photo has the same body as Chris. There's a distinct similarity. This is, however, something we will never know for certain because you couldn't even pay Chris to go to a doctor and get tested for this. Too much authority for him to handle.

It would at least give him some excuses... oh well.

 

[timtommy]

I think Klinefelter's would have been diagnosed. Many of the symptoms are visible from a young age. I would guess that some doctor, when confronted by Chris' parents trying to figure out why their kid can't talk, would have figured it out.

 

[Marvin]

ChurchOfGodBear hits the nail on the head as far as Chris' gender issues. However, I think COGB is wrong about Chris' sexuality. I don't believe Chris has had homosexual fantasies or thoughts. I think that Chris' disgust for men is genuine. He trained himself to be disgusted by men. Chris probably developed these feelings because of things like society, culture, maybe kids calling him gay as an insult? and obviously trolling. Hell, I bet the larger chunk of his homophobia we're thinking about didn't exist before the trolling.

 

[Suloxide]

I too think it isn't even possible for Chris to have homosexual thoughts or feelings, at least the Jackie conversations and drawings point in that direction.
timtommy's "bad boy, good girl" makes plenty of sense. Joesph Herring, a decent looking guy that Chris got along with pretty well is acne ridden in Sonichu 7. Even if a boy is good to Chris he still draws on that inner "bad boy" sentiment.

 

[The Knife]

Hell, I bet the larger chunk of his homophobia we're thinking about didn't exist before the trolling.

Maybe not the active homophobia, but what about the obsession with "staying straight"? Didn't the Sailor Moon straightspiration poster date pre-trolling?

 

[Marvin]

Hell, I bet the larger chunk of his homophobia we're thinking about didn't exist before the trolling.

Maybe not the active homophobia, but what about the obsession with "staying straight"? Didn't the Sailor Moon straightspiration poster date pre-trolling?

Chris is obsessed with staying straight because he literally thinks it's possible to become gay. He's a dumbass.

 

[introman]

People also forget that chris is gullible as hell. His first trolls were random emails from "sexy fan girls". Just look through his psychosis to something more relate-able as a common trip to mcdonalds. Chris thinks switching from french fries to apple slices is a huge task since most of us don't have that super focused autism obsession trait. Though to chris, switching a simple item probably took him having mental debates that lasted for weeks. He probably thinks switching your sexual orientation is the same thing. Something that people are cemented with and than you're convinced to change. Homosexuality to him doesn't belong to things that you can't innately change about yourself without herculean effort(race,height, neurotypicalness,etc...). IMO, sexuality to him is like changing shoes/shirts for the average person.

 

[Pikonic]

Chris is dumb. He thinks getting in touch with his womanly side will get him women, he missed the metro craze about 10 years ago.
He's a self loathing male. He's discussed becoming a woman before becoming gay. I personally don't believe you don't "become gay", you are or your aren't. So he's thought about becoming a woman. Is it possible he's "trapped?" Probably not, at the end of the day he's just dumb, his mother issues may have played a role in this as well.

He is also very gay.

 

[milkshark]

I have a theory that Tomgirl is a response to the LoveQuest being a total failure. He spent the entirety of his 20's looking for a girlfriend, and never got a single kiss. Chris has this high standard of himself, he's the main character in the story of his life. All the TV, cartoons, movies and stories Chris has ever seen or heard involving love and romance were promises in his eyes of what his future held. He's come away with nothing to show for his Love Quest, yet he's spent years dreaming of girls, looking at girls, talking to girls, figuring out what girls do and like, he became OBSESSED with girls. The entire time HE drove them off, drove them further from him and at some point he at least realized that his attempts to be masculine drove women away. Tomgirl served a purpose of redirecting Chris towards the women by being one, and in turn gave him the immediate gratification he's desired. I think looking down at his own body and seeing what looks like a woman is pretty sexually gratifying, especially since they're repelled by him. Chris really is a lot like Buffalo Bill, it's not even a joke at this point.

 

[ChurchOfGodBear]

ChurchOfGodBear hits the nail on the head as far as Chris' gender issues. However, I think COGB is wrong about Chris' sexuality. I don't believe Chris has had homosexual fantasies or thoughts. I think that Chris' disgust for men is genuine. He trained himself to be disgusted by men. Chris probably developed these feelings because of things like society, culture, maybe kids calling him gay as an insult? and obviously trolling. Hell, I bet the larger chunk of his homophobia we're thinking about didn't exist before the trolling.

Marvin, you're in a far better position to make that guess than I am, thanks for the clarification. I could be wrong... I just think there has to be something behind Chris's fixation on not being gay. Not a full fantasy or even a complete thought, but perhaps a morbid curiosity. Something small enough that a better-adjusted person would just let it go, but big enough that it causes Chris to fear falling off the straight path.

 

[asperhes]

he learned that "boy bad, girl good" was an effective way of sorting people for their future interactions

This is astute. He's a misandrist, plain and simple. From a very early age, he has projected all negative traits onto men, and all positive traits onto women. This has posed a quandary for him, since while Chris has only positive traits, he also has a duck. Therefore, I speculate that since at least high school, Chris has perceived himself as a "woman who unfortunately has a penis." How could he see himself otherwise, given that men are jerks? Chris has never thought of himself as a jerk, and the opposite of "jerk" is "woman". Long before becoming a tomgirl, he was striving to be womanly, in his poses for sexy photos, his personal mannerisms, and his effort to be nice, sweet, kind, and cowardly.

The duck has always been a big problem. He's confused that when he looks in the mirror, the rest of his body is that of a woman, so what's that penis doing here? He's confused that all of his emotional and moral traits are those of a woman. As his earliest correspondence with trolls indicates, he has been musing about a sex-change operation for a long time.

A thought that just occurred to me: does Chris think there are any men in heaven, besides his father?

 

[Anustart]

I don't know that Chris really has any innate understanding of gender roles. Actually, I think Chris's gender issues tie closely into his goal of dodging responsibility and Stress everywhere he can in his life.

His knowledge of women doesn't seem to extend much further than that 1) he wants to bone them, 2) being "emotional" and "sensitive" are seen as feminine traits, and most importantly, 3) being passive in relationships and work, things that he gets criticized for constantly, are for a woman not only acceptable but ideal (in the mind of someone who is 31 years old but grew up on his elderly parents' generation of media). Therefore Chris's laziness, joblessness, and unwillingness to approach people for relationships would be A-OK in a woman and he should be one. He knows just as little about men, even though he is one, so he's basically like an emotional eunuch who thinks of gender in purely utilitarian terms -- if I be a man I get to do this, and if I be a woman I get to do this.

Being Chris, of course, he wants to be both at the same time -- a heterosexual man who can BREAK YOU DEAD, who is also a mincing "tomgirl" -- since he possesses a bizarre MC Escher painting of a brain that isn't even capable of cognitive dissonance.

I think it's likely Chris doesn't really have any intrinsic feeling of gender identity at all. He could very easily be like autistics who can't fully comprehend sexual relationships and are thus asexual, except with gender identity. I'm not an autismologist so I could just be talking out of my ass, but like the rest of him, his concept of gender is incredibly strange.

 

[Zim]

I think Chris is straight. He fears homosexuals because he thinks it's something you can catch. Add in the fact that he hates all us Jerks anyway and suddenly Jerk on Jerk action (also known as "Jerk-Offs" ) becomes both something that doesn't turn him on (unlike lesbians) and the worst thing he could possibly see.

A lot of his problems might stem from the 'tism and that he most likely never had a group of guy friends to hang out with when he was growing up. Guys need other guys to hang out with in their developmental years so we can basically learn to be guys. It's hard to explain but it's a social thing. Chris seemed to have no friends at all really during that time in his life so he may not have really learned how to be a man in the first place.

Then again I could be wrong in which case I'll just use my default anser: Chris is really stupid.

 

[CatParty]

"Yes, I am a homophobe; I fear them all, and I fear the tormenting temptations of falling off the straight path. But then I mentally, sometimes from a DVD (and if you'll pardon the expression), shove some pussy in my face. I tell you what, if I ever stoop down to changing my path, I might as well would get a gender change operation."

i think his tomgirlism is a result of him having more gay thoughts. but i also think that statement he made could also be him being naive about gender and sexuality. for example:

A fun story on another topic, I have recently imagined myself dressed in my feminine outfit and makeup in a bar full of lesbians (I got the silly idea that I would likely fit in at a lesbian bar). LOL I found a successful woman in the bar, we talked; she was fascinated with my stories; I liked her too; we went back to her place; I warned her that I was actually a male; she was surprised, yet curious and willing to try me; we did it. And here's a fun, kinky part, we did it in lesbian's position (the scissor-thing) with my dick in her vag. Again, this was only pretend in my head. If this turns you on, good. It was fun for me anyway.

i think his poor upbringing is a reason for his completely naive views on gender roles and sexuality. borb was too old and probably too drunk to teach him these things properly (not to mention a lot of the evidence of them raising him leads one to believe they thought they were raising a retarded dog). he pretty much taught himself the birds and the bees from pornos, cable tv, and the internet. he also probably sees "gay" as a derogatory term because he was more than likely bullied as such in his school days.

i mean c'mon:

Spoiler