Clashes between Jews and Palestinians in Jerusalem. Israel now invading Gaza according to (Questionable) Reports - If your thoughts are "I don't like either" you don't need to fucking post because it's been said 100 times you fucking dullard

[biozeminadae1]

The definition of civilized is an advanced stage of social and cultural development, and the present-day Middle East is not more advanced than present-day Europe or Israel.

Israel and most of Europe are comprised of functioning democratic states which uphold human rights, provide education to all of their citizens,

Democracy is just a form of government - it's not the end point or the mark of an advanced state. A state can be advanced without a democracy.

American-Anglo definitions of "human rights" - which now include the ability to be as degenerate as you want. People have education if they have the money for it, or someone giving them a stipend.

"and create the conditions for economic opportunity"

What does this mean? How much cash some shareholder makes?

and technological development.

I would imagine so, seeing as they are developed states, while the rest of the world is still developing.

The same cannot be said for most of Israel's neighbors, and it certainly cannot be said for their enemies.

Well, yeah, you don't fucking see the USA threatening to invade Israel for developing capabilities to defend itself like it does to Iran, now do you?

 

[Adolphin]

Syria and Iraq were alright nations until the US invaded or destabilised them so its corporations could feast on Middle Eastern Oil and Israel would continue its imperialist schemes. My infinite solidarity to the brave mujahideen of Hamas and Hezbollah fighting against the Zionist occupier.

 

[DumbDude42]

The definition of civilized is an advanced stage of social and cultural development, and the present-day Middle East is not more advanced than present-day Europe or Israel.

Israel and most of Europe are comprised of functioning democratic states which uphold human rights, provide education to all of their citizens, and create the conditions for economic opportunity and technological development. The same cannot be said for most of Israel's neighbors, and it certainly cannot be said for their enemies.

democracy in and of itself is worthless if it doesn't achieve prosperity and a sustainable future for the people under it, which in current year it really doesn't. every western democracy is in decline, and in the process of getting gradually replaced and taken over by hostile foreigners. this is in stark contrast to undemocratic countries, many of which have a much more sustainable population development, and a good future outlook as a result.

praising liberal democracy as some kind of great achievement while your society is literally dying seems highly delusional to me, same with bashing illiberal autocracies as backwards and uncivilized when their societies are actually much more stable and future-proof than your own.

 

[LurkNoMore]

If you truly wish to live in some backward theocratic dystopia then feel free to move to one, but most people in the civilized world have a healthy respect for civilization, and there are few places in the world where the dichotomy is more pronounced than it is between Israel and Gaza.

Lol, why move to the middle east when I can move to any western nation have the same in a decade or two.

BLM and Antifa are mostly just kids who want to LARP as revolutionaries, with a lot of criminal opportunists hitched to the bandwagon. Hamas is a terrorist organization which seeks the destruction of Israel as it's stated goal.

Both BLM and Antifa's stated goals are the destruction of the US and the establishment of a marxist utopia. Not that different from an Islamic theocracy in its brutality and ignorance. Kids my ass. The one that attack the ice facility was in his fifties. The one who murdered the proud boy was in his thirties or forties.

Your insinuation that there is an escalation of unrest in the United States is also demonstrably false, as both the protests and the riots have been dying down for months: daily arrests peaked last June, as did the number of demonstrations associated with BLM and Antifa.

The trend of both BLM and Antifa is been toward greater and greater destruction and carnage. Just as Israel and Hamas go throw periods of open fighting to "peaceful distrust", so does antifa and blm. The only why you could have a point here is if the US has reached peak "fiery, but mostly peaceful protests". And given last year's performance, the evidence is clear it isn't.

Groups like Hamas, meanwhile, remain committed and organized, and they're not merely civilian troublemakers; they're the de facto government of the Gaza Strip.

Lol, god your a joke. BLM and Antifa both are committed and organized. They have multiple umbrella organizations trying to establish proper insurgent cells. Antifa has tried several times to establish "autonomous zones" which would function no different then Gaza does now. They would be the government and the law. They would seek to expand.

Once again, you have no sense of perspective.

Lol, your a joke. You think a we have to be in the middle of a problem for us to be able to compare it to another. Anyone who saw last year and the response can see where its going. "Muh arrests are done!" Is such an idiotic point when one realizes the cops aren't arresting people in numbers anymore because prosecutors don't care to press charges. Portland is the perfect example of this. Antifa hasn't stopped with their "direct actions".

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

democracy in and of itself is worthless if it doesn't achieve prosperity and a sustainable future for the people under it, which in current year it really doesn't. every western democracy is in decline, and in the process of getting gradually replaced and taken over by hostile foreigners. this is in stark contrast to undemocratic countries, many of which have a much more sustainable population development, and a good future outlook as a result.

praising liberal democracy as some kind of great achievement while your society is literally dying seems highly delusional to me, same with bashing illiberal autocracies as backwards and uncivilized when their societies are actually much more stable and future-proof than your own.

Except the data clearly shows that you're wrong, since democratic countries are statistically the wealthiest (by gross financial wealth per adult), the most stable, and the most free. The contrast between Israel and the Palestinian territories is by no means an exception to the data in this regard.

A state can be advanced without a democracy.

And a short person can still become a basketball player. The fact you're missing is that there is a strong correlation to the contrary, and the Middle East's lack of advancement is by no means limited to it's lack of democracy. You also have to factor in the problems of sectarianism, religious fanaticism, inept leadership, military incompetence, and the lack of free expression and women's rights, both of which have dire consequences for innovation and economic development.

What does this mean? How much cash some shareholder makes?

It means that societies which emphasize education, critical thinking, and resourcefulness will invariably be better off than societies which discourage those things. As an example, Israel alone has produced six Nobel Prize winning scientists; the entire Arab world combined has produced just one.

Lol, your a joke. You think a we have to be in the middle of a problem for us to be able to compare it to another. Anyone who saw last year and the response can see where its going. "Muh arrests are done!" Is such an idiotic point when one realizes the cops aren't arresting people in numbers anymore because prosecutors don't care to press charges. Portland is the perfect example of this. Antifa hasn't stopped with their "direct actions".

No, I just think that you should broaden your perspective and realize that there are countries outside the US which easily rubbish the equivalence you're attempting to draw between the BLM protests and Islamist militia groups like Hamas, because right now you sound like an insular American who gets all of their information from American news outlets.

The recent political unrest in America is the product of a racial and cultural divide which is specific to the US and it's history; it can't to translated to the situation in Israel and Europe, and it isn't anything approaching comparable to the problems throughout the Middle East. Your flagrant attempts to invoke one as a means of dismissing the other is still very much a red herring.

 

[biozeminadae1]

Except the data clearly shows that you're wrong, since democratic countries are statistically the wealthiest (by gross financial wealth per adult), the most stable, and the most free. The contrast between Israel and the Palestinian territories is by no means an exception to the data in this regard.

China, a despotic realm, had been the leading economic power for 1000 years before the Industrialization and creation of the British Empire. China has existed between 1900 and 2700 years, making it more stable than any other country currently existing, even Iran. Most of the world is now democratic, doesn't matter de facto or not, yet most of the world is poor.

It's only the West that's really seen a benefit from Democracy.

and the lack of free expression and women's rights, both of which have dire consequences for innovation and economic development.

From what I gather, you basically want every country to follow the Western model, a universalist model, that has proven to be a failure for all non Western countries who have adopted it.

And what's your opinion on post-communist countries, where women have the same rights as men? Why are they shitholes? Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia, Kazakhstan, etc.

 

[DumbDude42]

Except the data clearly shows that you're wrong, since democratic countries are statistically the wealthiest (by gross financial wealth per adult), the most stable, and the most free. The contrast between Israel and the Palestinian territories is by no means an exception to the data in this regard.

retard metrics like wealth and freedom(*) are fucking worthless and irrelevant in the face of population decline and ethnic replacement. your very own people are being diminished day by day, your numbers are dwindling, hostile foreigners encroaching on your lands a little bit more with every passing day. you are facing the slow death of your people and your answer is "but muh gdp per capita though!" which is just laughable

(*) nice 'most free' countries btw where people are under constant threat of being jailed for shit like posting wrongthink on facebook lmao

 

[biozeminadae1]

What was that about inept leadership?

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NyQuilninja]

Sure is fun watching retards compare Europe to the Middle East when Europe is gonna be the Middle East in a decade

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

China, a despotic realm, had been the leading economic power for 1000 years before the Industrialization and creation of the British Empire. China has existed between 1900 and 2700 years, making it more stable than any other country currently existing, even Iran. Most of the world is now democratic, doesn't matter de facto or not, yet most of the world is poor.

The Chinese are a people; not a realm, unless you want to ignore all of the times that China has fragmented, reunified, and undergone revolutions. The current incarnation of China is 72 years old at most (or 39 years, if you measure it from it's most recent constitution), and it's still significantly behind the West in terms of per capita wealth.

The point still stands that democratic societies are statistically much more prosperous than autocratic ones, and for all China's faults, it still has a fraction of the problems the Middle East is beset with, so it's not even a particularly good example to use to bolster the point you're trying to make. Sure, China may be autocratic and ruthless, but at least it still values skills and innovation, doesn't prevent it's women from excelling, and isn't held back by medieval religious sectarianism.

It's only the West that's really seen a benefit from Democracy.

Not true. Compare North Korea to South Korea, mainland China to Hong Kong pre-1997, or Japan pre-WW2 to Japan post-WW2.

retard metrics like wealth and freedom(*) are fucking worthless and irrelevant in the face of population decline and ethnic replacement. your very own people are being diminished day by day, your numbers are dwindling, hostile foreigners encroaching on your lands a little bit more with every passing day. you are facing the slow death of your people and your answer is "but muh gdp per capita though!" which is just laughable

(*) nice 'most free' countries btw where people are under constant threat of being jailed for shit like posting wrongthink on facebook lmao

You still don't seem to have put 2 and 2 together concerning why immigrants would want to move to the West in the first place if it wasn't clearly a better place to live than where they've came from; which is precisely the point I've been making to you.

You also don't seem to have put 2 and 2 together concerning why the West might be a better place to live, or why some of this might be relevant to the question of whether or not Israel is a better steward of it's territory than it's enemies would be.

 

[DumbDude42]

You still don't seem to have put 2 and 2 together concerning why immigrants would want to move to the West in the first place if it wasn't clearly a better place to live than where they've came from; which is precisely the point I've been making to you.

You also don't seem to have put 2 and 2 together concerning why the West might be a better place to live, or why some of this might be relevant to the question of whether or not Israel is a better steward of it's territory than it's enemies would be.

completely avoiding the subject by attempting to derail lol.
its not a complex situation: immigrants want to go to the west because that's the only place where the locals are forced to give them infinite gibs, and they can do whatever they want to the locals with no consequences.

"look how awesome the west is! we let hostile foreigners trample us into the dirt without fighting back! being progressive sure feels great! liberal democracy is the best!" - you, basically

 

[LurkNoMore]

No, I just think that you should broaden your perspective and realize that there are countries outside the US which easily rubbish the equivalence you're attempting to draw between the BLM protests and Islamist militia groups like Hamas, because right now you sound like an insular American who gets all of their information from American news outlets.

No they don't. BLM is on track to be Hamas. They may not possess a gaza strip of their own, nor carry out rocket attacks. But the blind idiotic zealotry is there. Given a decade they will be hamas at this rate.

The recent political unrest in America is the product of a racial and cultural divide which is specific to the US and it's history; it can't to translated to the situation in Israel and Europe,

Lol, ok?

and it isn't anything approaching comparable to the problems throughout the Middle East. Your flagrant attempts to invoke one as a means of dismissing the other is still very much a red herring.

You made the point middle eastern nations are backwards and lacking progress. I pointed out that progress is a bowl of shit and that things are on track to become exactly the same as hamas and gaza and Israel is dealing with now.

You think we have to have a one for one for things to be comparable. Which is idiotic when one can look and see where current trends are heading.

 

[biozeminadae1]

The Chinese are a people; not a realm, unless you want to ignore all of the times that China has fragmented, reunified, and undergone revolutions. The current incarnation of China is 72 years old at most (or 39 years, if you measure it from it's most recent constitution), and it's still significantly behind the West in terms of per capita wealth.

The Chinese live in a realm, a country, a state, a civilization, called China(in English), which to them for the longest time was the only civilization. The point is that it has a longstanding continuity of statehood, longer than that of Western countries, who have also "fragmented, reunified and have undergone revolutions".

What, is the England of today the England of Harold Godwinson? In fact, I'd argue that it isn't after the Norman conquest. In fact, England after Henry VIIIth isn't all that similar to England after the Norman conquest either. In comparison, China's beliefs and culture have remained relatively similar, barring communism.

The point still stands that democratic societies are statistically much more prosperous than autocratic ones, and for all China's faults, it still has a fraction of the problems the Middle East is beset with, so it's not even a particularly good example to use to bolster the point you're trying to make. Sure, China may be autocratic and ruthless, but at least it still values skills and innovation, doesn't prevent it's women from excelling, and isn't held back by medieval religious sectarianism.

"Medieval religious sectarianism" you mean sects like the Reformation, which created an entirely new sect of Christianity that expanded so much it allowed for the means to be created the market economy responsible for the wealth of the Western democracies you so praise?

Compared to the Christian world, Muslim denominations are incredibly stable, with there only being two main ones, of which 90% of adherents fall into only one of them. Maybe if the fucking West would quit it with toppling governments they don't like(Gaddafi), stopped backing terrorist organisations, those people will have the time to fix their shit.

Not true. Compare North Korea to South Korea, mainland China to Hong Kong pre-1997, or Japan pre-WW2 to Japan post-WW2.

Those aren't Western nations, they've adopted concepts of the Western world and applied them in their own way, that compliment their culture. I guess it was good that America also spent millions on helping SK and Japan rebuild, also... and Hong Kong belonged to a Western country for a hundred or plus years.

And for Japan - there's also the issue of their societal structure before US contact, they were feudal, that is, the same system as in Western Europe in the Middle Ages. So, they could adequately apply what the Westerners had, because they were both based on Feudalism. That's not entirely the case with the Middle East(or China).

And stop it with this female rights thing. What about fucking female responsibilities? The US is the most gynocentric country on the planet with half of Europe right behind it. Fucking over their male populace.

And economic output doesn't necessarily mean prosperity or happiness/well being for the citizens.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

What, is the England of today the England of Harold Godwinson? In fact, I'd argue that it isn't after the Norman conquest. In fact, England after Henry VIIIth isn't all that similar to England after the Norman conquest either. In comparison, China's beliefs and culture have remained relatively similar, barring communism.

Completely untrue. China today is nothing like China of the Ming or Han Dynasties. In fact, the Communist regime has upended and destroyed much of China's traditional culture in its drive to create its own variation of Communism, in addition to destroying China's environment, wrecking its birthrates (in both directions) and overall being horrible stewards of the country. China as civilization, or place, is ancient, but there are other many other cultures just as ancient; China is just one of the places where human civilization rose up, alongside the like of Mesopotamia and the region around the Indus River. But China as a unified country is very much a difficult thing to discuss, because, for large parts of its history, it wasn't a unified country. It technically isn't today, seeing as the Republic of China government on Taiwan still exists.

Compared to the Christian world, Muslim denominations are incredibly stable, with there only being two main ones, of which 90% of adherents fall into only one of them. Maybe if the fucking West would quit it with toppling governments they don't like(Gaddafi), stopped backing terrorist organisations, those people will have the time to fix their shit.

He is comparing the Christian world to the Muslim one, and the Christian world beats it in every metric. It was the Christian world that conquered most of the world, advanced technologically, and became the driving force of the current world order. It was the western world which created the concept of individualism that allows you and I to have the basic freedom to even have this conversation on this forum, and it was the western world that invented the internet that allows this website to exist in the first place. The modern Muslim world is the personal bitch of one Great Power or another, a backwards backwater only largely relevant due to its oil reserves (and with the rise of domestic oil production in the U.S. and Russia, even that is becoming increasingly irrelevant).

And economic output doesn't necessarily mean prosperity or happiness/well being for the citizens.

Your right, but it sure does fucking help, doesn't it? You know what the actual happiest country in the world is? Finland. All the other top ten countries on the list are also in Europe, with the exception of...New Zealand. Turns out, having a functional economy and free society makes people hella happy. The Top 20 happiest countries in the world are all western countries, including the United States, Israel and Costa Rica. Bahrain and the UAE just make the top 25, while Saudi Arabia just misses it. The next Arab state on the list is Kuwait all the way at 47 (keep in mind, all of these countries are Gulf Oil Countries, which use the Black Gold to prop up their economies). Even Guatemala places better than Kuwait. You got to go down to number 80 to find the next Arab country (Libya) and 64 to find the next Muslim country (Bosnia; the highest ranked non-Arab Muslim country is Kosovo at number 33).

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

completely avoiding the subject by attempting to derail lol.
its not a complex situation: immigrants want to go to the west because that's the only place where the locals are forced to give them infinite gibs, and they can do whatever they want to the locals with no consequences.

"look how awesome the west is! we let hostile foreigners trample us into the dirt without fighting back! being progressive sure feels great! liberal democracy is the best!" - you, basically

The only thing I'm interested in derailing here is your false perceptions, because the tired narrative you're attempting to spin is not supported by the evidence. Statistically, the vast majority of people who immigrate from the Middle East to Europe don't end up in receipt of welfare; they're people who come to the continent for a better life and greater opportunity, and you still haven't managed to explain (or perhaps more to the point: explain away) the reasons why they could expect to find that in the West.

The same argument can equally be applied to Israel, where Arab citizens enjoy far greater freedom and opportunity than they could ever expect to enjoy under their own governments. Again, I think you should address that.

You made the point middle eastern nations are backwards and lacking progress. I pointed out that progress is a bowl of shit and that things are on track to become exactly the same as hamas and gaza and Israel is dealing with now.

Except they're not on track to become the same. The number of riots and arrests peaked in last June, and if you discount 2020 (which I believe the pandemic and the anger over George Floyd's death exacerbated), violent crime across the United States has been on a downward trend for 30 years.

I'm beginning to notice a pattern here: I'll present an argument and support it with facts, and then you'll respond with an argument which is backed up by nothing more than a narrative you've spun in your head. You are by no means the only offender in this regard either. It seems that just about all of the posters seeking to downplay Israel's superiority over it's neighbors fall into the same camp. Funny that.

Compared to the Christian world, Muslim denominations are incredibly stable, with there only being two main ones, of which 90% of adherents fall into only one of them. Maybe if the fucking West would quit it with toppling governments they don't like(Gaddafi), stopped backing terrorist organisations, those people will have the time to fix their shit.

You're confusing stability with stagnation. Being stuck in the Dark Ages is hardly something to brag about, and when you couple medieval attitudes with modern weapons, then you have the recipe for a lot of political instability, and that is precisely what has resulted in recent decades. You can't lay the blame entirely at the West's door, because Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Vietnam were no less subjects of Western intervention, yet they're all now thriving societies.

The fact remains that the aspiration that the Middle East will one day rise above it's current predicament heavily depends upon the victory of those who seek to reform the region, and that's not going to happen for as long as it's populated by people who continue to hold attitudes like those of yourself. Like most illiberal thinkers, you strike me as a nihilist who would rather watch the world get worse than admit to the shortcomings of your own worldview, and in this regard, you're not at all unlike the Islamists who share your antipathy towards democracy, the West, and Israel.

And stop it with this female rights thing. What about fucking female responsibilities?

Women don't have a responsibility to have sex with you. Try being a better man.

 

[introvertedobserver]

Syria and Iraq were alright nations until the US invaded or destabilised them so its corporations could feast on Middle Eastern Oil and Israel would continue its imperialist schemes. My infinite solidarity to the brave mujahideen of Hamas and Hezbollah fighting against the Zionist occupier.

It had nothing to do with oil. We already had their oil via Kuwait and slant drilling (that's what the first gulf war was over). Thinking it was oil is myopic.

Syria, Iraq, Libya were all over their trying to stop trading in US Dollars (The petrodollar/US world reserve currency). That represents a major threat to our interests as our fiat currency only has the value it does because it's what the world uses to trade.

Any threat to that, by other countries (especially smaller countries) showing its feasible to dump the US dollar is met with our military showing up under false pretenses.

Iraq switched to the Euro for trade, and literally the next month we started the invaision. The timeline with Libya was also similar (I think longer than a month though, but we didn't directly invade there like we did in Iraq). Syria's been wanting off the dollar for a long time, hence our backing of the rebels (similar to Libya, but we more or less failed there).

China and Russia are about the only players big enough that we wouldn't directly destabilize/invade them because they've got nukes and they'll fucking use them if we try to force regime change (instead we get in little proxy spats, which Syria also is).

Afghanistan, oddly enough, was just a straight "You don't wanna give up bin Laden and you told us to fuck off? Fuck you."

 

[Snekposter]

Iraq switched to the Euro for trade, and literally the next month we started the invaision. The timeline with Libya was also similar (I think longer than a month though, but we didn't directly invade there like we did in Iraq). Syria's been wanting off the dollar for a long time, hence our backing of the rebels (similar to Libya, but we more or less failed there).

Libya was mostly France. Ghaddifi wanted a pan-African currency equivalent to the Euro, call it say, the Afro, and given that the Afro would be a direct threat to France's domination of their "former" colonies via the Central African and West African Francs, he obviously had to go. He was also on the French shitlist for a while given his on-off fights with Chad, one of those "former" colonies of France, and arguably the only reason Chad won the Toyota War was because the French started parking troops, planes, and SAM's in Chad to prevent the Libyan forces from advancing too far after his initial large gains.

Reminder that the first planes into Libya were French SEAD planes, not the USAF. They wanted him gone, and we were just along for the ride.

 

[The High Prophet of Truth]

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1399060398075170816

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1399172136195997699

 

[kidatari]

a new superhero comic book series coming soon
Iron Dome
from /pol

 

[LurkNoMore]

Except they're not on track to become the same. The number of riots and arrests peaked in last June,

As is the same with hamas rocket attacks. There is periods of intense activity followed by periods of "peace" or what passes.

and if you discount 2020 (which I believe the pandemic and the anger over George Floyd's death exacerbated),

"Well if we just ignore the latest point in a trend, then I'm right!"

violent crime across the United States has been on a downward trend for 30 years.

30 years no. 50 or 60 years, then yes. Mass incarceration and little to any leniency has had an effect. If you at say the murder trend it dips then peaks then dips again.

I'm beginning to notice a pattern here: I'll present an argument and support it with facts,

You'll presented no facts. You claim a figure with no evidence to back it up, which I then knock down without any hassle.

and then you'll respond with an argument which is backed up by nothing more than a narrative you've spun in your head.

The irony.

You are by no means the only offender in this regard either. It seems that just about all of the posters seeking to downplay Israel's superiority over it's neighbors fall into the same camp. Funny that.

Lol, you made a comment about arabs being backwards. I made the comment about how I didn't blame them for their backwardsness. Given current trends in supposedly better nations like America or any western nation. Progress is a bowl of shit.