Could Phil get dropped from Curse? - New problems on the horizon for MCN's.

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Ol' Slag

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James Smith

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That depends, how many complaints does Curse get about him a day? The higher that number, the more likely they are to drop him. If they're getting complaints they'll assume YouTube is getting reports, and a channel getting demonetized or suspended is a now a non-imaginary derogatory mark placed on Curse. 50 of those in a 90 day period and they can't partner anyone, which isn't a situation they're going to blindly put themselves in.
 

Kermit the Frog

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I don't think he gets dropped. Knowing the way his partnership with Machinima and all his other business partners ended, we'd be seeing Phil take shots at Curse and setting himself up to burn that bridge. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't done that at all.
 

Raven'sChild

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lol of course
if phil got dropped he would rant about it for an hour and a half, saying that he was a victim, and the next day rant how HE dropped THEM because they were detractors and didn't help him or some such shit
Well, we all know that Curse doesn't treat him like the 'white hot' property he is with his ten year legacy on the platform he constantly denigrates. They don't promote his 20-30+ daily videos. They aren't sending him early copies of games for free that he'll refuse to play until release day. They haven't been arranging projects with other Curse partners that he will decline to participate in. They aren't giving him free tickets to conventions that he has no intention of attending. Dave is doing them a favor by allowing them to profit off his hard work and should be grateful he has tolerated them this long.
 

Authentic Sauce

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If Curse was to take the Maker approach and drastically reduce the number of channels they manage DSP would probably get dropped. I would also say that article implies there is a lot of uncertainty about what is actually going on here, is youtube forcing this to happen, is youtube suggesting MCNs do this, it's all pretty unclear. DSPs 10 year legacy could help him in this case, he has made it this long without getting his channel shutdown so it might give an MCN confidence that he is a relatively safe bet. On the other hand they could consider him a risk due to the volume of uploads he does on a daily basis, the more minutes of videos you upload a day the more risk there is.

It's strange the article uses the "Know you customer" (KYC) language in it, you will usually hear it referenced in combination with anti money laundering (AML) That phrase has a very specific meaning in banking and finance, basically you need to collect information on your customer to know who they are so you can be certain you are not funding criminals, terrorists and other such things.
 

James Smith

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I would also say that article implies there is a lot of uncertainty about what is actually going on here, is youtube forcing this to happen, is youtube suggesting MCNs do this, it's all pretty unclear. DSPs 10 year legacy could help him in this case, he has made it this long without getting his channel shutdown so it might give an MCN confidence that he is a relatively safe bet. On the other hand they could consider him a risk due to the volume of uploads he does on a daily basis, the more minutes of videos you upload a day the more risk there is.
If I had to guess I would guess that "forced" means "we are going to potentially, possibly, maybe, but likely suffer negative consequences if we don't." I would be astonished if YouTube has told any MCN "If you don't do X, you will be removed from AdSense effective insert-date-here."
It's strange the article uses the "Know you customer" (KYC) language in it, you will usually hear it referenced in combination with anti money laundering (AML) That phrase has a very specific meaning in banking and finance, basically you need to collect information on your customer to know who they are so you can be certain you are not funding criminals, terrorists and other such things.
I have never seen KYC used anywhere except in the financial service context.

EDIT: I used this analogy in the linked thread, but this is basically the same as the city saying to a pimp "Hey if 50 of your bitches test positive for HIV in a 90 day period, you can't hire any new bitches to work in this city for A While™," in a city where there are an effectively unlimited number of young women willing to have sex for money and give a pimp some of the money even if that pimp doesn't really help their sex business any.
 

JamFlowMan

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With the knowledge I had coming into this I was going to say no Phil is fine, but after reading the article maybe he could be let go. First thought this was about creators breaking terms of service, which say what you want about Phil but there really isn't anything he does that blatantly goes against the tos. Sure he has a bunch of videos under content id, but he isn't constantly getting copyright strikes or anything like that.

However the article makes it seem more like this is MCN's having to thin the ranks as a whole which is an entirely different situation. Now I don't keep up with who is with what MCN so I don't know who else is with Curse, but Phil gets around ~2 million views a month give or take. Depending on where that puts him on the Curse totem pole is what may decide if he is safe or screwed. There are other factors of course, but this is just about Phil.
 

DarkSoulsPhil

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Seems like Youtube is going to make Curse (and others) forced to volunteer to this new policy. two outcomes

1. If its a soft touch, Phil is probably ok and its just to get rid of the actual risky channels that consistently push the boundries with their content

2. If its a hard touch, Phil is done. He makes low effort content that he spams out. This is if Youtube want to drop the open platform and start to tightly control whats on the service.

I don't see 2 happening, but I can see 1 happening before slowly transitioning to 2, or a separate 'premium' platform for all their ad revenue to go which would be heavily vetted, which would also kill Phil. Youtube has been revealed to have this kinda recently. That Logan/Jake Paul (one of those spastics) suicide forest already shows that there is an 'approved' list for advertisers (which he complained about) and I can certainly see Youtube slowly tightening the screws on that one.
 
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Haunter

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Like just about everything I post, I can only add some barely informed speculation to the discussion: Curse is owned by Twitch. DSP has long been a Twitch partner (despite the reprimands). Perhaps this lends him some weight with his MCN that hasn't yet been considered.

There. My contribution as a barely helpful troglodyte is done for the day.
 
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James Smith

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First thought this was about creators breaking terms of service, which say what you want about Phil but there really isn't anything he does that blatantly goes against the tos.
Except for the whole thing about getting permanently banned and told not to come back then making 4 more accounts. That's something I can see convincing Curse to opt out, but only if they believe he's actually at risk of getting demonetized again.
 

JamFlowMan

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Except for the whole thing about getting permanently banned and told not to come back then making 4 more accounts. That's something I can see convincing Curse to opt out, but only if they believe he's actually at risk of getting demonetized again.
Damn that was a huge oversight. I completely forgot about that, yeah that could be a problem. It hasn't been so far, but it has only been about a year since he did that so it could still come back to bite him somehow.

Phil literally has a video on his channel, proably KOHvlogs, saying "you are only allowed one adsense account" and then continuing on explaining he made two additional accounts. If certain eyes ever saw that video it would be an easy decision to cut the channel. Fortunantly for Phil nobody watches his quality kahntent.
 

Ching_Chong

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I think with the way he uploads, he runs the risk of higher copyright and/or content ID claims than anyone in the Curse MCN and I would think they'd drop him.
 

BrunoMattei

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I would say no because Curse obviously knew who he was when they picked him and re-picked him up. But after reading the article linked by the OP I would say it's obvious that they'd drop him. Phil is a massive liability for any MCN so it's just a matter of when they'll be forced to drop him.

If what that Laveria Media CEO guy say's is true then no other network, aside from the very shadiest ones, would pick up Phil.

The takeaway would be that, once YT income finally goes away for Phil, he would lose approximately $20K in yearly income. His Patreon has slowly but surely lost Patron's over the last year. That just leaves Twitch has his main source of income. With YT gone, that could force him to sell the house and move back to CT.
 
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actually

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The takeaway would be that, once YT income finally goes away for Phil, he would lose approximately $20K in yearly income.
If you believe his "Twitch and Youtube were about the same" at the end of 2017, it's more like $40k, as I recall. For that to be true, though, his CPM would be need to be closer to an average of $2. Maybe I need to consider a revision of his monthly take-home, or at least put in a range for, say $1-$2 CPM.
 

BrunoMattei

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Except I clearly said that he would lose approximately $20K from YT. I didn't say exactly how much he makes from his other platforms, but I think it was around $50-60K from Twitch last year and about $15K something like from that Patreon.

I guess with you everything has to be spelled out, huh?
 
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actually

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Except I clearly said that he would lose approximately $20K from YT. I didn't say exactly how much he makes from his other platforms, but I think it was around $50-60K from Twitch last year and about $15K something like from that Patreon.

I guess with you everything has to be spelled out, huh?
@EddyB43 's 2017 Twitch totals, which you can find on Twitter yourself, add up to just over $42k. That doesn't include every last red cent, but it's a baseline to work off of. Unless you think Phil made somewhere between $8-18k more that Eddy missed, your $50-60k Twitch income estimate is wrong. Your estimate for Patreon, on the other hand, is about right at $15k, as that's $1250 a month, which he generally managed averaged across the year.

As for what you said, I read it just fine. Let me spell things out a little more for you. I'm saying that PHIL'S CLAIM is that his Youtube and Twitch income were roughly equivalent in 2017. Accordingly, if the Twitch income was around $42-45k on Twitch (the range allowing for uncounted/unseen tips, cheers, and subs) as documented by Eddyb43, then Phil would have made around $45k on Youtube. If you lowball it at $40k, that's about $3333 a month. He had between 1.5-2M views each month in 2017 (more or less) according to socialblade. Thus, he would HAVE to have had a CPM of something closer to $2. So when you said "once YT income finally goes away for Phil", that would mean something more like $40-50k, depending on his views. (Edit 1:) It could be closer to $20k if his CPM has dropped, but we have no way to know that short of him blurting it out.

Edit 2: Found the post I was thinking of (from Jan. 3): https://kiwifarms.net/threads/darksydephil-theycallmedsp-phil-burnell.975/page-2129#post-2916900

"I made 1% less from Youtube than I made from Twitch" Phil on prestream.

https://twitter.com/EddyB43Cynic/status/947902329054953472
  • EddyB43 tracked around $42,500 from Twitch for Phil
  • Around $12,000 from Patreon
  • 1% less in youtube: ~$41,000
So he made ROUGHLY $95,500 or more in 2017.
 
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