Covid/mRNA Vaccine Info General - You Are Not "Vaccine Hesitant" For Using Critical Thinking

[Stoneheart]

Small RNA is non-coding and acts as a stopping point. They're just part of a regulatory mechanism.

there are alot of different small RNAs and they are involved in pretty much every regulatory process. those are very important...

This absolute fear over an mRNA vaccine is absurd. Messenger RNA in our body is part of the process that transcribes and creates proteins. The vaccine causes our cells to emit these proteins, which then our antibodies recognize and are used to fight the viruses that we're infected with. Regardless of COVID or not, mRNA vaccines have been in development for a long while, at least 4-5 years. They're the next stage in vaccine research to fight viruses.

they didnt publish most of the basics they must have found. that stuff cant be patent protected.
also 4-5 years is a bit problematic since we have found new mechanisms in those years.

The mRNA is broken down, as it always is, and viral protein production stops.

thats way more complicated in reality and we dont know much. P-bodies are real hard to study.

RNA is extremely unstable (I've worked with it before) and there are RNAases (enzymes that dissolve RNA) fucking EVERYWHERE.

that depends on the RNA you working with. some is destroyed by looking at it while other typs of RNA are very stable.

They're flowing throughout our body and get destroyed constantly.

most of that happens in your cells.

So there is absolutely no chance of the mRNA altering your genome or any stupid shit like that.

Genome regulation is much more impactfull than altering. There are also pathways of building extrachromosomal DNA from mRNA.

They're literally instructions on how to build a protein. That's all they are. Once they're expressed, our immune system memorizes them and uses the reference to fight the virus.

Yes but not in a way the body normaly reacts to a viral infection...

my main problems with this tech are
1.1 regulation and location of translating ribosomes.
1.2. effect on bacteria
2.1 regulation of the destruction of the mRNA
2.2 Small RNA of all types resulting from the degradation
2.3 regulation of P-body pathway and activity for the mRNA
3.1 Antibody reaction to expression of viral protein in Cells.
4.1 other ways of using this technology.

You can get a lot of problems from this if something goes wrong and you could use the same tech to give somebody addictions, Cancer and some sort of prion illness.

 

[Racist Trash]

Shit I still have this issue for 3 months now after I got COVID, I can't tolerate that fucking smell.

Are you sure the vaccine cures that tho? doesn't make any sense to me, vaccines are not medicine, they just prevent the disaease.

Who knows? Maybe the cold I had forced it into hiding so my body never went looking for it and then the vaccine was introduced and my body's immune system was like "Wait a second I've seen these cunts somewhere before."

 

[Secret Asshole]

there are alot of different small RNAs and they are involved in pretty much every regulatory process. those are very important...

Hate to break this to you, but viruses use miRNA to fuck up cellular processes all the time and we don't melt into a puddle. (And miRNAs are specifically coded, not created from scraps of leftover mRNA).

they didnt publish most of the basics they must have found. that stuff cant be patent protected.
also 4-5 years is a bit problematic since we have found new mechanisms in those years.

mRNA vaccinces were going to come out regardless.

thats way more complicated in reality and we dont know much. P-bodies are real hard to study.

Not really, no. P Bodies are basically designed for post-translation modification of RNA and assist with RNA degradation. P bodies contain a metric ton of enzymes related to mRNA decay. Our bodies are not going to hold mRNA around at all.

Even then, P Bodies are the mediator between translation and mRNA decay. There is no code to constantly generate mRNA from a DNA template, so the expression of this mRNA is going to be minimal. Even if it were conserved and spit out, it would likely be degraded. Or a cell would try to produce spike proteins and get destroyed.

that depends on the RNA you working with. some is destroyed by looking at it while other typs of RNA are very stable.

mRNA is NOT stable at all. Its designed not to be. And you're wrong about it being very stable. RNA is highly susceptible to degradation and it is far more difficulty to purify and separate and RNA sample than a DNA sample. This is basic structural knowledge here.

most of that happens in your cells.

There are RNAases on our skin which are designed to break down RNA. It happens everywhere. This is because of RNA viruses, which protect their genetic material with a protein coat.

Genome regulation is much more impactfull than altering. There are also pathways of building extrachromosomal DNA from mRNA.

If you're talking about retrotransposons, they're extremely tightly regulated and highly specific. They're not going to snap up random mRNA and reverse transcriptase it right into a genome. Do you know how fucked we would be if retrotransposons acted incoherently? Again, you're talking about highly regulated, specific processes. Retrotransposons only generate their genome of interest to create cDNA, they do not generate new sequences as that would be fucking insane for our body to do so.

In order for this to happen, you'd need to make a retrotranspson with the proper primer for the RNA sequence. We're not inserting mRNA primers. This is the only use of reverse transcriptase in eukaryotes.

I worked with cDNA libraries. Believe me, you need highly structured and specific primers for your gene of interest and you need a clean, regulated laboratory environment to do so. Our bodies don't pick up random mRNA and then just reverse transcriptase it. And it is bitch to get it working in laboratory conditions that are completely clean and free of variables.

Yes but not in a way the body normaly reacts to a viral infection...

You realize our immune system is reacting to mRNA right now from retroviruses, or proteins from discarded bacteria that made its way into our body, fungal spores and all kinds of shit. This is how our immune system works. We rely on Membrane Histocompatibility Complexes on our cells to not blow them up. Literally everything else is an enemy. From pieces of random proteins, to DNA sequences from ruptured bacteria, to chemicals to allergens.

The mRNA vaccine exploits the way our immune system is designed to function.

my main problems with this tech are

1.1 regulation and location of translating ribosomes.
1.2. effect on bacteria
2.1 regulation of the destruction of the mRNA
2.2 Small RNA of all types resulting from the degradation
2.3 regulation of P-body pathway and activity for the mRNA
3.1 Antibody reaction to expression of viral protein in Cells.
4.1 other ways of using this technology.

You can get a lot of problems from this if something goes wrong and you could use the same tech to give somebody addictions, Cancer and some sort of prion illness.

Then you have a question about all vaccines. Because vaccines are either attenuated dead or very very small amount of weak infectious irus particles. Which contain mRNA and everything.

1. Why would ribosome regulation and location be different? It is literally mRNA.
2. Bacteria are not going to pick up things that will harm them, and if bacteria do pick up the mRNA and produce spike proteins...well, you're immunized, so then that bacteria gets destroyed.
3. Small mRNAs or miRNA are not generated by degradation of mRNA. They're a specific class of RNA that is coded for.
4. I can tell you they're going to destroy them, because that's what the immune system does on a daily basis.

Then I guess you're terrified of retroviruses because they do all this and more. Prions result from misfolded proteins that self propagate. If this mRNA coded for a prion (hint: it doesn't) you'd find out pretty fucking fast. Also prion diseases are spread 2 ways: eating prion infected tissue, and a mutation in the human PRNP gene.

There's this very irrational fear going on. If you're in the risk group, you should probably get it. If you aren't, you probably shouldn't. The concern from the quick development of the vaccine is not the mRNA itself, but the adjuvants, storage and if the immune response is appropriate. Our body does not like random mRNA sticking around, period.

 

[Stoneheart]

Hate to break this to you, but viruses use miRNA to fuck up cellular processes all the time and we don't melt into a puddle. (And miRNAs are specifically coded, not created from scraps of leftover mRNA).

there are plenty of other small RNA that we dont realy know how its made...
I wouldnt bet that there isnt a Dicer equivalent for mRNA.

mRNA vaccinces were going to come out regardless.

yeah but they shouldnt. thats tech is just to easy to abuse.

Not really, no. P Bodies are basically designed for post-translation modification of RNA and assist with RNA degradation. P bodies contain a metric ton of enzymes related to mRNA decay. Our bodies are not going to hold mRNA around at all.

P bodies can sequester mRNA and store it for an unknown amount of time. we only known that they are major parts of the RNA mechanism in humans.
they do far more than just breaking down mRNA.

Even then, P Bodies are the mediator between translation and mRNA decay. There is no code to constantly generate mRNA from a DNA template, so the expression of this mRNA is going to be minimal. Even if it were conserved and spit out, it would likely be degraded. Or a cell would try to produce spike proteins and get destroyed.

cell destruction is not good if it targets the wrong cells.

mRNA is NOT stable at all. Its designed not to be. And you're wrong about it being very stable. RNA is highly susceptible to degradation and it is far more difficulty to purify and separate and RNA sample than a DNA sample. This is basic structural knowledge here.

mRNA isnt my problem, other RNA is.
Also listen to that strange canadian and clean your dick and your lab.
i bet you are one of those guys who glows in the dark after leaving the lab.

There are RNAases on our skin which are designed to break down RNA. It happens everywhere. This is because of RNA viruses, which protect their genetic material with a protein coat.

so your skin flows in your body? RNAses in your blood are not that active. thats why they got mRNA vaccines to work in the first place.

If you're talking about retrotransposons, they're extremely tightly regulated and highly specific. They're not going to snap up random mRNA and reverse transcriptase it right into a genome. Do you know how fucked we would be if retrotransposons acted incoherently? Again, you're talking about highly regulated, specific processes. Retrotransposons only generate their genome of interest to create cDNA, they do not generate new sequences as that would be fucking insane for our body to do so.

like im said, im not scared of the mRNA itself, but everything else that comes from it. also is there a chance to generate cccDNA from that modified mRNA?

In order for this to happen, you'd need to make a retrotranspson with the proper primer for the RNA sequence. We're not inserting mRNA primers. This is the only use of reverse transcriptase in eukaryotes.

they build it from fucking aids, who knows if it can act like a real retrovirus in some people?

I worked with cDNA libraries. Believe me, you need highly structured and specific primers for your gene of interest and you need a clean, regulated laboratory environment to do so. Our bodies don't pick up random mRNA and then just reverse transcriptase it. And it is bitch to get it working in laboratory conditions that are completely clean and free of variables.

So you went to high school. well done.

You realize our immune system is reacting to mRNA right now from retroviruses, or proteins from discarded bacteria that made its way into our body, fungal spores and all kinds of shit. This is how our immune system works. We rely on Membrane Histocompatibility Complexes on our cells to not blow them up. Literally everything else is an enemy. From pieces of random proteins, to DNA sequences from ruptured bacteria, to chemicals to allergens.

our Cells normaly dont express viral proteins and survive. the mRNA vaccines gets our cells to express viral protein.

The mRNA vaccine exploits the way our immune system is designed to function.

No it doesnt. your Cells explode if they are infected and made to express viral proteins.
the reaction is a mix from the reaction to cancer and random proteins in your bloodstream.

Then you have a question about all vaccines. Because vaccines are either attenuated dead or very very small amount of weak infectious irus particles. Which contain mRNA and everything.

the immune reaction is to the hull of the virus particle, not to mRNA,
the mRNA vaccines forces our cells to express viral hull proteins, thats waaaay different.

1. Why would ribosome regulation and location be different? It is literally mRNA.

yeah but we just have a rough idea how that works. you dont want all your ribosomes to work with that mRNA and we dont have the knowledge to design mRNA the right way(atleast not published)

2. Bacteria are not going to pick up things that will harm them, and if bacteria do pick up the mRNA and produce spike proteins...well, you're immunized, so then that bacteria gets destroyed.

im much more concerned about bacteria picking up just parts of the injection.

3. Small mRNAs or miRNA are not generated by degradation of mRNA. They're a specific class of RNA that is coded for.

small RNAs and miRNAs are not the same, miRNAs are just a part of the whole cluster of small RNAs.
im maybe elderly, but some of those small RNAs were topic when i did my 2nd bachelor in the good old days.(the first one would have also counted as a bachlor in biology in the US while i was still school in germany).

4. I can tell you they're going to destroy them, because that's what the immune system does on a daily basis.

Yeah i doubt that they will destroy the gentherapy tech they tested on millions of people as a corona vaccine.

Then I guess you're terrified of retroviruses because they do all this and more. Prions result from misfolded proteins that self propagate. If this mRNA coded for a prion (hint: it doesn't) you'd find out pretty fucking fast. Also prion diseases are spread 2 ways: eating prion infected tissue, and a mutation in the human PRNP gene.

im not terrified of retroviruses, im terrified by RNA regulation of our genome.
and thats how priones natural occure but we are talking about mRNA injections designed by shady people(moderna) and outright idiots(biontech).
why should i take a risk if i can just use a safe vaccine made the way we have made vaccines for decades?

There's this very irrational fear going on. If you're in the risk group, you should probably get it. If you aren't, you probably shouldn't. The concern from the quick development of the vaccine is not the mRNA itself, but the adjuvants, storage and if the immune response is appropriate. Our body does not like random mRNA sticking around, period. Its not going to mindlessly code for it.

i already took the other vaccine weeks ago. my problem is the mRNA vaccine and not vaccines as a whole(i already have autism and a smush brain)

 

[Secret Asshole]

yeah but they shouldnt. thats tech is just to easy to abuse.

You're going right to conspiracy theory garbage in that they're going to give you super cancer AIDS.

P bodies can sequester mRNA and store it for an unknown amount of time. we only known that they are major parts of the RNA mechanism in humans.
they do far more than just breaking down mRNA.

No, we know they are a balance factor between mRNA production and degradation. S. We know exactly how long the body produces the protein coded in the mRNAs. 1-2 days. This is because of a magical technique called RT-PCR

Also listen to that strange canadian and clean your dick and your lab.
i bet you are one of those guys who glows in the dark after leaving the lab.

We adhomenim up in here.

thats why they got mRNA vaccines to work in the first place.

No, they use a vehicle so it doesn't immediately degrade.

like im said, im not scared of the mRNA itself, but everything else that comes from it. also is there a chance to generate cccDNA from that modified mRNA?

No because you need a fucking primer to do it and our body doesn't randomly fucking generate primers from mRNA sequences.

No it doesnt. your Cells explode if they are infected and made to express viral proteins.
the reaction is a mix from the reaction to cancer and random proteins in your bloodstream.

Ok, you're fucking with me now.

Yeah, I'm done.

Anyway, the biggest dangers of mRNA are auto immune responses and anaphylaxis. The mRNA lasts in the bloodstream from 1-2 days and is undetectable after that. The vaccine was originally incredibly fragile and had to be stored at -80 Degrees C or it would degrade. The spike proteins themselves degrade in our blood because our blood is loaded with proteases that digest these proteins, and the half-life of the Spike protein is 10 minutes.

Believe who you want, do what you want. Draw your own conclusions. And don't just read random journals and fucking wikipedia.

 

[Stoneheart]

You're going right to conspiracy theory garbage in that they're going to give you super cancer AIDS.

If we know how that tech works, we can do what ever we want to people. even making them black..

No, we know they are a balance factor between mRNA production and degradation. S. We know exactly how long the body produces the protein coded in the mRNAs. 1-2 days. This is because of a magical technique called RT-PCR

yeah, no we can find mRNA months after expected expression in cells. also cracking p-bodies isnt that easy.

We adhomenim up in here.

no, just general disgust for people in the colonies,

No, they use a vehicle so it doesn't immediately degrade.

No because you need a fucking primer to do it and our body doesn't randomly fucking generate primers from mRNA sequences.

yeah thats not how that works.

Ok, you're fucking with me now.

Yeah, I'm done.

are you?
how does a human cell express proteins if infected? is it all the time or does it explode when enough is produced?
are there 2 pathways? do americans learn about both of them?

Anyway, the biggest dangers of mRNA are auto immune responses and anaphylaxis. The mRNA lasts in the bloodstream from 1-2 days and is undetectable after that. The vaccine was originally incredibly fragile and had to be stored at -80 Degrees C or it would degrade. The spike proteins themselves degrade in our blood because our blood is loaded with proteases that digest these proteins, and the half-life of the Spike protein is 10 minutes.

nobody cares about primary effects... human cells expressing viral proteins are on the kill list and the rna paritcles possible diced from mRNA are a problem.

Believe who you want, do what you want. Draw your own conclusions. And don't just read random journals and fucking wikipedia.

like i said, i sttudied that shit along time ago. you have to have studied it before since you only know one small rna.

are you certaine that the vaccine is worth the risk if you cant get a safer vaccine in a week or two?

 

[EyelessMC]

Well, this is what it sounds like when two posters with knowledge in a scientific field go sparring. Much more interesting than the politicking and whining in the last thread.
Wish it didn't go over my head so I could follow through the jargon. lol

The Spike Proteins are only produced for as long as the mRNA is around. Once the mRNA breaks down, the proteins are no longer produced. There is no DNA template from which to translate to RNA. So the S proteins are not sticking around. Once the mRNA is gone, that's it. The amount of people who think this is genetically modifying your cells is crazy.

Spoiler: Clarifying my point, concern and stance

Alright so firstly, interesting info and considerations. I appreciate the passing mention of SSRIs and their effects as well. Secondly, in the past whenever I had said that it "influences" or effects genetic code I wasn't saying that it rewrites DNA or something or that it can make you melt or give birth to Berserk babies. I was simply stating the reality of how the mRNA tech works.

As succinctly detailed in the OP video, the vaccine tech uses the genetic code of the virus without containing virus to simulate a response to something that isn't virally there. Or, as they put it:
"The synthetic mRNA delivers instructions to cells in the body to produce the viral protein which stimulates an immune response."

So it's not modifying your cells but it is influencing them to express a protein they normally wouldn't. In this case that protein happens to be the S protein which, as the Salk Institute 's study recently concluded, can cause vascular damage even without the virus. The example they cited in their summation of the study (all articles and study links are archived in the OP) is one of "inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls". The new side effect being reported in the dozens and investigated by the CDC? Myocarditis.

Again, the chronology is: Vaccine Development - S Protein Study - Myocarditis Reports
See, I emphasize the chronology of when these things occurred here because it not only points to the asinine decision to create and distribute these vaccines so quickly before full study and approval but it also shows that it's not fear mongering or delusional to see the correlation between the S protein and these reports, let alone of blood clots and etc. It's a conclusion that occurred after these events took place, not before it.

I'm not saying that there was conspiratorial intent either, especially since at the time the vaccines were developed the science of the S protein's inherent danger and the resultant conclusion of Covid-19 being a specifically vascular illness didn't exist. The spike in reports regarding youths as young as 16 being diagnosed with myocarditis didn't happen until after the FDA heeded the CDC's recommendation to give emergency approval to mass vaccinate kids. Within a month of that approval we get the myocarditis reports and presumably ongoing investigation by the CDC, despite their reassurances.

As an aside, your suggestions as to why the vaccine is causing neurological disorder--hopefully temporarily--in certain patients is interesting despite it just being based on your knowledge of viruses (How does a Forensic Psyche specialist know about virology?). Your hypothesis is better than just labeling it as "stress" or psychosematic like so many are doing to avoid scrutiny about the vaccines.
Also thanks for discussing the method of mRNA tech, but I don't have the rolodex of scientific vernacular you do so I hope you'll be patient with me as I parsing this out from what I'm reading (not on Wikipedia). Also do you have a link to your John Money thread? I can't find it using the search bar.
------------------------------
That preamble out of the way: To start with, your argument seems to be against concern about the mRNA tech itself, not against concerns about the vaccines. It's one thing to be wary about the rushed developed vaccines and other to be wary about the technology behind them. Is that it?

In that, you argue the mRNA doesn't stay around long enough for Spike proteins to be produced enough to be dangerous. Did I get that right? If I'm wrong on either point then correct me. If I'm right, then I wonder why that wasn't the argumentation used to dissuade caution regarding the vaccines after the Salk Institute's S protein study. Instead the doctor's article they directly linked to focused entirely on two totally different aspects:

1: The S proteins of the vaccines are designed to stick where the injection is rather than flowing freely throughout the blood (membrane-anchored?)
2: You're not breathing it in as you would with the virus
So the doctor was more focused on the idea that the vaccines would not give a patient Covid-19 just because they produce the same S protein as the virus. He didn't carry the argument you do about the mRNA not sticking around long enough to be an issue. However, even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the S protein can't cause damage during its brief time being expressed in the body. Perhaps it still can and that's why the doctor focused instead on how the vaccine S proteins are different and where it gets injected, neither of which is altogether helpful to alleviate concern when the thing should still be investigated as a potential cause considering the study's results.

On the far right of this picture (which is from a full article archived in the OP along with everything else) is a comment asking why the doctor focused so much on that idea, and on the lungs, rather than on the S protein's potential involvement or cause of the side effects we're seeing with blood clots, etc. Again, this was before the myocarditis reports, and that's the correlation I personally emphasize, especially in otherwise healthy teenagers getting heart inflammation after vaccination. I have yet to see a doctor address this rather than hand-wave the risk away. It's now a risk to young lives and not just geriatrics, a risk which does not occur in other vaccines. This is specific to the Covid vaccine, this spike (no pun intended) in myocarditis reports. Also the breast cancer-like symptom is unique,but that's another matter.

Also to be clear, as I've said before, I'm not arguing against the technology itself, only the vaccines as they currently are now and the massive push for excessive vaccination by government, the economic incentive to make Covid vaccination a seasonal necessity akin to the Flu vaccine, and the overall bias for the vaccines which range from social media global censorship of information/discussion to lumping concern about the Covid vaccine with "anti-vax" (vaccine abolitionism). Not to distract from my point but simply reiterating my stance.

TL;DR This is the first time I've heard anyone argue that the vaccines' Spike protein is unlikely to be the cause of the vascular illness seen in vaccinated kids (and adults), argued because the S protein stops being produced once the mRNA breaks down. I wonder if that aspect matters if the S protein can cause damage in the interim between introduction and breaking down. Even three or so days can be enough time, I'd imagine. Consider that the myocarditis reports place the timeframe being roughly four days after the second injection.

I assume that the reason you make the argument is because if the S protein's the culprit then the vaccines can't just be developed with different adjuvants to make them safer, help patients to be less prone to such severe side effects. It would mean the vax is fundamentally dangerous, right? Since the entire thing hinges on being able to have the S protein expressed in the body.

The likely suspect is a hypersensitized immune system to adjuvants in the vaccine itself or an improper immune response that stays active long after the vaccine. There is also the possibility of the immune system mis-identifying proteins on cells and taking them as invaders, causing it to go haywire.

Hence the risk someone mentioned earlier about a particularly scary illness regarding the immune system, something like an immune system dependence or defect. I forget the name. I knew it back in November.

None of these are specific to the COVID vaccine.

But the deluge in reports on such symptoms and constant issues regarding the vaccine is specific to the Covid vax. No other vaccine has caused this much trouble in the last generation (well, except the oral Polio vaccine causing/emboldening a renewed outbreak of Polio overseas).

This absolute fear over an mRNA vaccine is absurd.

If you're talking about the current vaccines as opposed to the overall concept of the technology, then you're wrong. We have more than enough information in every aspect to prove either fear or concern about the Covid jabs is valid.

Messenger RNA in our body is part of the process that transcribes and creates proteins. The vaccine causes our cells to emit these proteins, which then our antibodies recognize and are used to fight the viruses that we're infected with. Regardless of COVID or not, mRNA vaccines have been in development for a long while, at least 4-5 years.

They've been a niche research area for ten years according to the OP video, only recently being developed into a usable vaccine, and at a time where they were rushed out even before publication of their preliminary studies for peer review. In fact Moderna hasn't even made a product for the market until the Covid vax.

They're the next stage in vaccine research to fight viruses.

Potentially. That's why longer and fuller study should have been done/must be encouraged rather than blind trust.

Spoiler

I can't speak to others' concern about what this technology can be used for in the wrong hands--which isn't conspiracy theory but a valid concern in its own right, one which you acknowledge by your counterargument of essentially, "if you think this technology can be used to screw your body's cells then you must know that even previous technology could also be used for nefarious purposes", basically arguing that there's no greater danger of wicked intent with the new vaccines than there was with the old ones. I understand that reasoning. I'm not one of those who state that the tech is inherently dangerous, only that these vaccines were neither produced under proper development standards nor are given the protracted scrutiny they require.

 

[Vecr]

This vaccine only provides the receptor binding domain (RBD) as a target, and contains no viruses or (m)RNA or DNA, or the full spike. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF2001 It's not as specific to the actual virus though, so it's not as protective. I guess they could do a calculation for what one would be better depending on age and risk factors.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Well, this is what it sounds like when two posters with knowledge in a scientific field go sparring. Much more interesting than the politicking and whining in the last thread.
Wish it didn't go over my head so I could follow through the jargon. lol

Spoiler: Clarifying my point, concern and stance

Alright so firstly, interesting info and considerations. I appreciate the passing mention of SSRIs and their effects as well. Secondly, in the past whenever I had said that it "influences" or effects genetic code I wasn't saying that it rewrites DNA or something or that it can make you melt or give birth to Berserk babies. I was simply stating the reality of how the mRNA tech works.
View attachment 2232389
As succinctly detailed in the OP video, the vaccine tech uses the genetic code of the virus without containing virus to simulate a response to something that isn't virally there. Or, as they put it:
"The synthetic mRNA delivers instructions to cells in the body to produce the viral protein which stimulates an immune response."

So it's not modifying your cells but it is influencing them to express a protein they normally wouldn't. In this case that protein happens to be the S protein which, as the Salk Institute 's study recently concluded, can cause vascular damage even without the virus. The example they cited in their summation of the study (all articles and study links are archived in the OP) is one of "inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls". The new side effect being reported in the dozens and investigated by the CDC? Myocarditis.

Again, the chronology is: Vaccine Development - S Protein Study - Myocarditis Reports
See, I emphasize the chronology of when these things occurred here because it not only points to the asinine decision to create and distribute these vaccines so quickly before full study and approval but it also shows that it's not fear mongering or delusional to see the correlation between the S protein and these reports, let alone of blood clots and etc. It's a conclusion that occurred after these events took place, not before it.

I'm not saying that there was conspiratorial intent either, especially since at the time the vaccines were developed the science of the S protein's inherent danger and the resultant conclusion of Covid-19 being a specifically vascular illness didn't exist. The spike in reports regarding youths as young as 16 being diagnosed with myocarditis didn't happen until after the FDA heeded the CDC's recommendation to give emergency approval to mass vaccinate kids. Within a month of that approval we get the myocarditis reports and presumably ongoing investigation by the CDC, despite their reassurances.

As an aside, your suggestions as to why the vaccine is causing neurological disorder--hopefully temporarily--in certain patients is interesting despite it just being based on your knowledge of viruses (How does a Forensic Psyche specialist know about virology?). Your hypothesis is better than just labeling it as "stress" or psychosematic like so many are doing to avoid scrutiny about the vaccines.
Also thanks for discussing the method of mRNA tech, but I don't have the rolodex of scientific vernacular you do so I hope you'll be patient with me as I parsing this out from what I'm reading (not on Wikipedia). Also do you have a link to your John Money thread? I can't find it using the search bar.
------------------------------
That preamble out of the way: To start with, your argument seems to be against concern about the mRNA tech itself, not against concerns about the vaccines. It's one thing to be wary about the rushed developed vaccines and other to be wary about the technology behind them. Is that it?

In that, you argue the mRNA doesn't stay around long enough for Spike proteins to be produced enough to be dangerous. Did I get that right? If I'm wrong on either point then correct me. If I'm right, then I wonder why that wasn't the argumentation used to dissuade caution regarding the vaccines after the Salk Institute's S protein study. Instead the doctor's article they directly linked to focused entirely on two totally different aspects:
View attachment 2232417
1: The S proteins of the vaccines are designed to stick where the injection is rather than flowing freely throughout the blood (membrane-anchored?)
2: You're not breathing it in as you would with the virus
So the doctor was more focused on the idea that the vaccines would not give a patient Covid-19 just because they produce the same S protein as the virus. He didn't carry the argument you do about the mRNA not sticking around long enough to be an issue. However, even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the S protein can't cause damage during its brief time being expressed in the body. Perhaps it still can and that's why the doctor focused instead on how the vaccine S proteins are different and where it gets injected, neither of which is altogether helpful to alleviate concern when the thing should still be investigated as a potential cause considering the study's results.

On the far right of this picture (which is from a full article archived in the OP along with everything else) is a comment asking why the doctor focused so much on that idea, and on the lungs, rather than on the S protein's potential involvement or cause of the side effects we're seeing with blood clots, etc. Again, this was before the myocarditis reports, and that's the correlation I personally emphasize, especially in otherwise healthy teenagers getting heart inflammation after vaccination. I have yet to see a doctor address this rather than hand-wave the risk away. It's now a risk to young lives and not just geriatrics, a risk which does not occur in other vaccines. This is specific to the Covid vaccine, this spike (no pun intended) in myocarditis reports. Also the breast cancer-like symptom is unique,but that's another matter.

Also to be clear, as I've said before, I'm not arguing against the technology itself, only the vaccines as they currently are now and the massive push for excessive vaccination by government, the economic incentive to make Covid vaccination a seasonal necessity akin to the Flu vaccine, and the overall bias for the vaccines which range from social media global censorship of information/discussion to lumping concern about the Covid vaccine with "anti-vax" (vaccine abolitionism). Not to distract from my point but simply reiterating my stance.

TL;DR This is the first time I've heard anyone argue that the vaccines' Spike protein is unlikely to be the cause of the vascular illness seen in vaccinated kids (and adults), argued because the S protein stops being produced once the mRNA breaks down. I wonder if that aspect matters if the S protein can cause damage in the interim between introduction and breaking down. Even three or so days can be enough time, I'd imagine. Consider that the myocarditis reports place the timeframe being roughly four days after the second injection.

I assume that the reason you make the argument is because if the S protein's the culprit then the vaccines can't just be developed with different adjuvants to make them safer, help patients to be less prone to such severe side effects. It would mean the vax is fundamentally dangerous, right? Since the entire thing hinges on being able to have the S protein expressed in the body.

All I'm saying is if you picture the Spike proteins like a drug, they're half-life is 10 minutes. As in, in 10 minutes 50% of them will be degraded by proteases in the blood. Now mind, it takes 1 minute for blood to fully pump around the body.

My argument is that they're not going to stick around in the body for months or for years. That being said, is it possible for the Spike proteins to stick to the vasculature and provoke an inflammatory immune response? And since the immune response of young people would be stronger? Yes. An immune response can stick around longer than the protein itself, so it could hyper activate, attacking vasculature. It wouldn't be the Spike protein itself responsible, but the excessive immune response. You also have to understand, even if the Spike protein is gone, an immune response doesn't just stop. There's a ramp up time. So it ramps up in two days, excessively attacks the vasculature and symptoms appear two days later. Despite most of the mRNA and Spike sticking around at the injection site, some makes it into the plasma. You also have to remember, its not the Spike protein doing the damage, its our immune response to it.

I'm certainly not denying symptomology would be different in young children and adolescents. They probably should not be getting the vaccine anyway, as their a very low risk group and preventative measures are much easier and safer than a vaccine. But like I said, when kids get a fever and you give them aspirin, they get Reye's syndrome, which leads to severe brain damage. And that's an over the counter drug. Myocarditis is mild compared to that. But obviously I'm not saying that you shouldn't care about it.

I'm not dismissing blood clots or anything like that. The Moderna vaccine is different in that it uses lipid nano-particles to stabilize the mRNA, which allows it to be stored in a -20 degree freezer. These lipid nano-particles could be the cause of the blood clotting that we see in Moderna. Just because other vaccines have clotting issues doesn't mean they all stem from the same source and are equal in their severity. The Moderna's clotting issue is particularly bad.

Hence the risk someone mentioned earlier about a particularly scary illness regarding the immune system, something like an immune system dependence or defect. I forget the name. I knew it back in November.

But the deluge in reports on such symptoms and constant issues regarding the vaccine is specific to the Covid vax. No other vaccine has caused this much trouble in the last generation (well, except the oral Polio vaccine causing/emboldening a renewed outbreak of Polio overseas).

If you're talking about the current vaccines as opposed to the overall concept of the technology, then you're wrong. We have more than enough information in every aspect to prove either fear or concern about the Covid jabs is valid.

They've been a niche research area for ten years according to the OP video, only recently being developed into a usable vaccine, and at a time where they were rushed out even before publication of their preliminary studies for peer review. In fact Moderna hasn't even made a product for the market until the Covid vax.

Potentially. That's why longer and fuller study should have been done/must be encouraged rather than blind trust.

Spoiler

I can't speak to others' concern about what this technology can be used for in the wrong hands--which isn't conspiracy theory but a valid concern in its own right, one which you acknowledge by your counterargument of essentially, "if you think this technology can be used to screw your body's cells then you must know that even previous technology could also be used for nefarious purposes", basically arguing that there's no greater danger of wicked intent with the new vaccines than there was with the old ones. I understand that reasoning. I'm not one of those who state that the tech is inherently dangerous, only that these vaccines were neither produced under proper development standards nor are given the protracted scrutiny they require.

I mean, you're going to see a lot based on this because like it or not, the issue is highly politically charged with people going 'get the vaccine bigot'. So there is also a political motivation to try and scare you. Its not like the smallpox and polio vaccines were 100% safe either. The adjuvants in the anthrax vaccine given to soldiers in the gulf war is believed to be responsible for gulf war syndrome (an adjuvant is an additive in a vaccine that helps start an immune response to it). As with everything, all vaccines carry risks.

You have to be very careful when taking people's symptoms online into account. There were videos of people fainting after taking the vaccine. However, sometimes people really dislike getting a shot and suffer from postural hypotension, so they get the shot, stand up quickly and experience a temporary drop in blood pressure causing a fainting episode. Or someone naturally has low blood pressure as well. You can't take it at face value.

The issue of the vaccine is hyper polarized. There is enormous pressure to take it and people are tired of wearing masks and being told what to do. So they're going to circulate articles and very rare symptoms. Its just like if this were an epileptic drug and people were pointing out Steven Johnson's syndrome and necrosis as major side effects when they are rare.

I mean, the fact of wicked intent of immunization with the flu shot has been a conspiracy theory since forever. Did pharma rush the mRNA tech out because it wanted to develop more? Sure. Do I think they're massively unsafe? Not really. I mean, there have been experiments tested on you and you haven't even known about it. The military released bacteria into the NY subways system to record how far a bio-weapon would spread. It wouldn't be that difficult to develop a virus and just let it spread to people changing what you want. Or they could just hide it in a flu shot. I'm not going to indulge paranoid delusions that have been around forever. If they're going to do something to you, they're going to do it.

Do I think the vaccines were rushed? Sure. But this isn't new or even untested tech. Can there be serious problems down the road? Possibly, but I find it unlikely. Most problems we're seeing are very quickly after the vaccine. There's no evidence the spike proteins hang around months later, nor does the mRNA. They were both radiolabeled to see their distribution. Not to mention you can do RT-PCR to see the expression of the Spike protein and if the body is still expressing it.

The main concern is possible lingering auto-immune effects, not the mRNA sticking around anywhere. Once more, there's the idea of triage and harm reduction. Sure, you can survive COVID. But there are a metric ton of lingering after effects. Far more than the vaccine. The vaccine's after effects are just milder than the diseases, so it makes sense to take it if you're in the age group. Teens and adolescents probably shouldn't be vaccinated due to the myocarditis issue. Children certainly not.

are you?
how does a human cell express proteins if infected? is it all the time or does it explode when enough is produced?
are there 2 pathways? do americans learn about both of them?

Holy fucking shit. If you think I'm going to take blatant condescension like this from some rando on the farms than LOL. Yeah, I'm 100% fucking done with you. Asking me a fucking test question, nigger get the fuck out my face.

 

[Stoneheart]

Holy fucking shit. If you think I'm going to take blatant condescension like this from some rando on the farms than LOL. Yeah, I'm 100% fucking done with you.

but i love you...
I will try to try to mask my condescension a bit, i promiss.

Asking me a fucking test question, nigger get the fuck out my face.

i can understand why you feel bad PTSD from tests is a problem in many young ones...

All im saying is that infected and non infected Cells dont just produce viral protein into the blood stream. those build up inside an infected cell till it bursts out.
there are 2 circles for infected cells and the way the mRNA vaccine is working is none of them.

 

[WhiteLivesMatter]

Vaccines are a way for the government to control the sheeple. First they gather them in health centers for vaccines, then under the pretext of "second dose" and third dose they will inject them with gene-modifying mRNA chemicals which turns them into the perfect obedient goyim so they could go with their plan for the great reset.

“Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
-1984

 

[knobslobbin]

Crackpot, or proven right again next year? Luckily I'm in the control group so I don't care either way. Actually I take that back, all the branch covidians really pissed me off so here's hoping.

Vindicated Scientist on Man-Made Theory Still Says Mass Genocide in Store from mRNA “Vaccine” Injections, Media Discredited [Source]

 

[Raisin Boy]

Gee, Bill! Two bachelors?

If you nailed an interview you could get a career as a phlebotomist.

 

[EyelessMC]

Crackpot, or proven right again next year? Luckily I'm in the control group so I don't care either way. Actually I take that back, all the branch covidians really pissed me off so here's hoping.

lol As annoying as uber-vaxxers are I'd still be against global depopulation. I'm surprised at the names listed here which have floated the idea, even being convinced of it in some respects. Unnerving. I can see where the concern comes from in light of things we've heard elsewhere like from Bill Gates (he mentioned something about the population in the past). Still, I'm not convinced. It's getting into NWO territory to me. Far more likely that BigPharma is being BigPharma yet again and, in that, we're seeing yet another cross-section of aims from different groups. Kind of like with the Sexual Revolution, there's different goals from different bodies (in this case pharmaceutical, economic, governmental, etc.) which intersect at certain points, chief of which being vaccination. If long term damages arise then it'd be result of these myopic aims rather than a unified--let alone international--conspiracy bringing about mass illness or death.
It's good to keep in mind since it follows up on some of the notable doctors referenced in the OP but it's not a rabbit hole I'll personally follow down.

That said, the "man-made virus theory" is really getting more and more into the spotlight suddenly, as it should've been from the start. So many outlets and professionals called it nutty. Now we're getting insights even from Dr. Fauci's emails--courtesy of Buzzfeed, believe it or not.
Here's a vid about Fauci's emails and this issue. I edited it to just get the info. If you find a more full info video on it, post it.

I wonder if they'll be giving Dr. Li-Meng Yan another shot now, or still pretend she doesn't exist.

My argument is[...] You also have to remember, its not the Spike protein doing the damage, its our immune response to it.

Very good point. In fact, I'm going to add this to the OP for clarity's sake. Anyway, I get you. You're contributing to the discussion and emphasizing that the Spike proteins shouldn't be the only thing we consider when investigating and reading about the side effects of the vaccines. It's primarily an immune response issue, so a deeper dive into the adjuvants in the different Covid vaccines would be good, too.
Your info about Reye's syndrome and otherwise is good too, and what you mentioned regarding the Moderna vax is also very important to know, especially in light of what I'll ask you later for another kiwi's sake.

I mean, you're going to see a lot based on this because like it or not, the issue is highly politically charged with people going 'get the vaccine bigot'. So there is also a political motivation to try and scare you. [...] You have to be very careful when taking people's symptoms online into account. [...] You can't take it at face value.

That's true, just like with the start of the pandemic there's always going to be the issue of hysteria that's often overlooked. However I would rather there be a more even approach regarding the Covid vaccines in reporting since this hand-waving of incidents like those neurological cases causes an imbalance that only inspires imbalance in return. But like you said, sadly we're stuck between politicization at all sides which only makes info gathering murky.
Didn't know that about the fainting issue, though. I find it hard to believe that one nurse who fainted on live TV was as averse to needles as the reports said afterward since she wouldn't have volunteered to get on camera if that was the case, but that it can happen at all is something to keep in mind. A lot of factors for people to consider.

Speaking of people's symptoms online! This is the part about another kiwi I mentioned earlier. Do you know anything that could help @Bad Take Crucifier 's partner? More than anything it'd be fantastic if you could glean something. She made a post here and I've yet to find anything that could guide her in finding answers or at least alleviating the suffering they're going through.
Note: It was after the Moderna vaccination, second shot.

I mean, the fact of wicked intent of immunization with the flu shot has been a conspiracy theory since forever.

True, especially with the mercury or whatever aspect as a preservative. Sorry, I forget the chief complaint about them but I know what you're talking about. In any case, I'd argue concern for the Covid vaccine is different considering the circumstances of their development and etc. But as for them being part of a greater conspiracy, well I've said what I think about that above. Then again, Gates wants to dim the sun so what do I know? lol That's why I focus less on conspiracy theory and more on the science and money/power-aimed agendas involved.

Did pharma rush the mRNA tech out because it wanted to develop more? Sure. Do I think they're massively unsafe? Not really. I mean, there have been experiments tested on you and you haven't even known about it. The military released bacteria into the NY subways system to record how far a bio-weapon would spread.

Wait, what? I've heard of the Tuskegee thing but...
https://archive.md/BeKwz
OH... OK THEN.

Spoiler: I guess this is where the "chem trails" notion came from

Now I understand your view on this conspiracy subject. In light of this I can see why you're not as moved by the notion of the vaccines potentially being part of some kind of conspiratorial agenda. As you said, the government's done it times before and would do it again, so if they're going to do it then they're gonna do it. It's not a matter of apathy but rather resignation that if this was to be the case then there'd be nothing to do about it.
Kind of the mentality we all have to adopt when realizing the connection of pedophilia in high places, or else we'd go insane. Man, and here I thought MK Ultra was the worst of secret government experimentation... They really have a bad habit of this stuff going back generations.

Do I think the vaccines were rushed? Sure. But this isn't new or even untested tech.

Not that it's untested per se but that it definitely is new, at least with regards to implementation and product development, and so it needed far, far more rigorous testing than just a year before distribution on such a massive scale. I understand your perspective though. Hope you continue to give your take ITT as things unfold.

 

[Secret Asshole]

lol As annoying as uber-vaxxers are I'd still be against global depopulation. I'm surprised at the names listed here which have floated the idea, even being convinced of it in some respects. Unnerving. I can see where the concern comes from in light of things we've heard elsewhere like from Bill Gates (he mentioned something about the population in the past). Still, I'm not convinced. It's getting into NWO territory to me. Far more likely that BigPharma is being BigPharma yet again and, in that, we're seeing yet another cross-section of aims from different groups. Kind of like with the Sexual Revolution, there's different goals from different bodies (in this case pharmaceutical, economic, governmental, etc.) which intersect at certain points, chief of which being vaccination. If long term damages arise then it'd be result of these myopic aims rather than a unified--let alone international--conspiracy bringing about mass illness or death.
It's good to keep in mind since it follows up on some of the notable doctors referenced in the OP but it's not a rabbit hole I'll personally follow down.

That said, the "man-made virus theory" is really getting more and more into the spotlight suddenly, as it should've been from the start. So many outlets and professionals called it nutty. Now we're getting insights even from Dr. Fauci's emails--courtesy of Buzzfeed, believe it or not.
Here's a vid about Fauci's emails and this issue. I edited it to just get the info. If you find a more full info video on it, post it.
View attachment 2236351
I wonder if they'll be giving Dr. Li-Meng Yan another shot now, or still pretend she doesn't exist.

While Fauci is a fucktard, he has no idea if its man-made or not. He just wanted it suppressed because he gave money to Wuhan and was terrified if it was man-made, people would be baying for his head. He wanted to be St. Fauci for all time. But really, he's just a scum sucking faggot who has constantly defended any administration (except the Trump admin, because he wanted to be St. Fauci and he's a fucking coward). He's a consummate politician. He's been in politics longer than he's been in medicine. He doesn't care about you, or I or anyone else. Its all about his reputation. Glad it just got assfucked.

I hate this cocksucker.

Very good point. In fact, I'm going to add this to the OP for clarity's sake. Anyway, I get you. You're contributing to the discussion and emphasizing that the Spike proteins shouldn't be the only thing we consider when investigating and reading about the side effects of the vaccines. It's primarily an immune response issue, so a deeper dive into the adjuvants in the different Covid vaccines would be good, too.
Your info about Reye's syndrome and otherwise is good too, and what you mentioned regarding the Moderna vax is also very important to know, especially in light of what I'll ask you later for another kiwi's sake.

That's true, just like with the start of the pandemic there's always going to be the issue of hysteria that's often overlooked. However I would rather there be a more even approach regarding the Covid vaccines in reporting since this hand-waving of incidents like those neurological cases causes an imbalance that only inspires imbalance in return. But like you said, sadly we're stuck between politicization at all sides which only makes info gathering murky.
Didn't know that about the fainting issue, though. I find it hard to believe that one nurse who fainted on live TV was as averse to needles as the reports said afterward since she wouldn't have volunteered to get on camera if that was the case, but that it can happen at all is something to keep in mind. A lot of factors for people to consider.

Speaking of people's symptoms online! This is the part about another kiwi I mentioned earlier. Do you know anything that could help @Bad Take Crucifier 's partner? More than anything it'd be fantastic if you could glean something. She made a post here and I've yet to find anything that could guide her in finding answers or at least alleviating the suffering they're going through.
Note: It was after the Moderna vaccination, second shot.

Sure, I can give my opinion on it. Once I heard it, I recognized it. It sounds like something pretty classic to me. The problem is, again, the vaccine is highly political so they're going to treat any extreme of symptoms as a conspiracy theory. Just imagine how many crazies they get in all day saying (seriously) that Bill Gates is chipping them, or its causing autism, or super AIDs or going to turn us into vampires or some shit. Like with the constant deluge of day in, day out retardation, anything legitimate sort of gets lost in the signal to noise ratio.

It comes from health issues being highly politicized. Note: These are the same vaccines Trump would have released. This has nothing to do with government admin. Big pharma has been working on mRNA vaccines for years, and they've tested them. Just not on a massive scale. The opportunity to test on a mass scale without paying for extraordinarily expensive human trials is something that they cannot resist. Why did they not use other common meds? Well, for one, you'd probably be taking those things in perpetuity. The stuff Bret Weinstein mentions is a prophylactic, meaning it is a preventative, not curative. Its not going to lead to any sort of herd immunity. People might stop taking it or forget to take it and then you have the problem of outbreaks all over again. Its much better to have a vaccine and let people's immune system's do that work rather than relying on people. Not to mention side effects, medicine interactions and a whole bunch of other headaches that they might not want to deal with. Taking a prophylaxis for a virus is really just a temporary measure.

But do you really want to take meds for 3-5 years while they're tinkering away on a vaccine? Probably not, I imagine.

True, especially with the mercury or whatever aspect as a preservative. Sorry, I forget the chief complaint about them but I know what you're talking about. In any case, I'd argue concern for the Covid vaccine is different considering the circumstances of their development and etc. But as for them being part of a greater conspiracy, well I've said what I think about that above. Then again, Gates wants to dim the sun so what do I know? lol That's why I focus less on conspiracy theory and more on the science and money/power-aimed agendas involved.

Wait, what? I've heard of the Tuskegee thing but...
https://archive.md/BeKwz
OH... OK THEN.

Spoiler: I guess this is where the "chem trails" notion came from

View attachment 2236205

Now I understand your view on this conspiracy subject. In light of this I can see why you're not as moved by the notion of the vaccines potentially being part of some kind of conspiratorial agenda. As you said, the government's done it times before and would do it again, so if they're going to do it then they're gonna do it. It's not a matter of apathy but rather resignation that if this was to be the case then there'd be nothing to do about it.
Kind of the mentality we all have to adopt when realizing the connection of pedophilia in high places, or else we'd go insane. Man, and here I thought MK Ultra was the worst of secret government experimentation... They really have a bad habit of this stuff going back generations.

Not that it's untested per se but that it definitely is new, at least with regards to implementation and product development, and so it needed far, far more rigorous testing than just a year before distribution on such a massive scale. I understand your perspective though. Hope you continue to give your take ITT as things unfold.

Gates has a white savior complex and is so extreme he would associate with pedophiles who blackmail people so he could get the Noble Peace Prize. Technocrats, universally, are gigantic pieces of shit. Bezos, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg...All of them universally terrible human beings. Gates tries to buy off his guilt by being insanely obsessed with 'saving the world', but he's just another rich technocrat who wants to be in charge and God forbid if you don't do it his way. Just like Bezos represents an unrepentant, late-stage capitalism dystopia, Gates represents an unrepentant philanthropic dictator style dystopia with a ruling class and an underclass. Their goals and motivations aren't anything complicated. These are creatures of ego. They believe they don't need to change the world, they believe that their sheer wealth will bend it the way they want it to. And ultimately when it doesn't, they don't understand why.

Think about it this way. Conspiracies exist because they make life sane. If a conspiracy exists, that means there are people who know exactly what is going on. It means there's a person out there with knowledge. That there is some order to this world. People believe in conspiracies because, inherently, conspiracies order the chaos of life. If there are no conspiracies, then it means nobody knows what is going on, and the entire world is random chaos. Which is fucking terrifying to people. That there's no rhyme or reason to anything. Nobody is the smartest guy in the room. There is no backroom with people planning the staged apocalypse. Anything can happen at anytime for any reason.

Why the Parkland shooting when Alex Jones' viewers probably have bunches of kids and grandkids? Think how terrifying that situation is. That it can happen at any time without warning, that our government cannot control anything. When this happens, our illusion of control and safety is shattered. Its comfortable to slip into a conspiracy. Because even if WE aren't in control, someone else is. Just remember he said all those kids were alive and everyone was just an actor. It gives them comfort, because those kids are living happily elsewhere and it was just a big setup. It doesn't matter how insane it sounds, it is less insane than some degenerate monster stealing a gun, killing his parents and then murdering children. Its an attempt at a sane response to an insane world.

What about Seth Rich? Sure, it was suspicious. But the thing is, that could happen to ANYONE walking down the street. Imagine you're just walking down the street and someone shoots you in the back of the head. Lights out. Darkness. Instant. There's no reason for it, no rhyme. Maybe a serial killer did it for kicks. Maybe some kid did it for a gang initiation. Maybe it was a stray bullet that pierced through poorly constructed dry wall. Maybe its a case of mistaken identity. It wouldn't be the first time. Terrifying thought, isn't it? However, if Seth Rich is murdered in a conspiracy, its done for a reason. He wasn't killed for nothing. In reality, he probably was.

Conspiracy gives order to the chaos. There is no order. There's no Oz. Its just an empty curtain. And to a lot of people, that's scarier than any conspiracy. Lizard people totally exist though.

But yeah, I am unmoved by conspiracy theories. And when we had that mad cow outbreak here, holy shit they were EVERYWHERE. I mean, I heard it everywhere. But yeah. The government has done extremely heinous shit. Probably shit still classified that we don't even know about too. Again, wouldn't be the first time. We sterilized the mentally ill, tested medical products on convicts, protected and shipped Nazi scientists to America...I mean, the government is not a moral entity and deserves as little power as humanly possible. But again, a lot of these things are carried out by individuals. Even the Wuhan lab was probably insulated from the CCP which is why they didn't know what the fuck was going on until it was too late. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Sometimes its just a couple of guys in a basement somewhere with a lazy supervisor. There's no grand conspiracy. Just some assholes pushing the limits of what they can do and the government buries it because they don't want to look like they don't know what the fuck is going on.

Why did China threaten nuclear war over Wuhan? Because if they were shown to be incompetent enough to cause a world-wide pandemic, the CCP is over. They cannot hide something that huge from the populace. So fuck it, maswell take everyone down with them. Again, sometimes its just some asshole doing something he's not supposed to without anyone knowing about it until its too late. And that is fucking horrifying. But that's reality.

I called my local clinics and they all said this is """normal""" and that their doctors won't do anything. This shit is so terrifying. I've never had a vaccine that made me sick for weeks at a time. But it's all normal if this experimental one makes you feel like you're dying. He's actually been sick for the entire time since getting the first shot. Sure, I told him the second shot would only be worse, but he still got it anyway because normie. Now it's like 10 times worse. Splitting migraines, fever, chills, cannot eat anything, can't walk, no energy to even talk. All the symptoms of COVID-19.

This is far worse than the "normal" side effects, too. I honestly feel bad that I didn't get on my partner's ass early about how questionable this experimental mRNA therapy shot is, but it's too late now. I have had several friends who got the shot and had mild discomfort for a few days, sick maybe for a day. Not literally bed ridden.

I've been trying to read more about vaccine side effects all day, and everything I read from official sources is the same line everywhere: "question nothing, do not be alarmed, side effects are fake news". Great, that doesn't help me. So what do I do now? I can't find any info because they refuse to even talk about side effects unless I go to some alterative and independent source.

This sounds like classic post-viral fatigue syndrome. It happens after a cold, the flu or literally any virus.

When I got the vaccine, I felt like shit for 2-3 days thanks to my immune response. So, what your partner is having is probably an incredibly excessive immune response. Nobody knows why it occurs, but individuals have different responses. It is likely that the vaccine produced an overloaded immune response, so right now his immune system is going bugfuck.

This might help in the meantime: https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/our-services...service/post-viral-fatigue-a-guide-management

Did they have a cold before? Were they on immunosuppressant medication? Do they have allergies or a generally weakened immune system?

It might last for a few weeks. The vaccine is already out of his body, its just the immune response hasn't died down at all. And like I mentioned before, they're so inundated with insane shit, your valid concerns are going to get lost in the noise. If you're having trouble convincing anyone of it, then mention they had a cold and then had these persistent symptoms for more than a few weeks. If they ask about the vaccine, tell them they had it whenever he did so they can rule it out. Even if it is the cause, it doesn't matter because its not like the vaccine is still in their system.

In all honesty, we can't know if the reaction was from the mRNA itself, the Spike protein or even one of the other constituents of the vaccine. The COVID vaccine contains Polyethylene Glycol. It sounds bad, but it is literally in everything. It could be that they were sensitized to that and is having an immune response to that: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29383836/

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Have there been any other cases of long term muscle spasms after getting the vaccine? I can't find a single report of anything that isn't this one woman. If this is an isolated case then there's no statistical significance to it and indeed nothing to suggest it's even related to the shot she got. You're picking one case of someone getting muscle convulsions after a covid shot and ignoring the 366 million cases of people not getting muscle convulsions after a covid shot. What you are doing is called cherry picking.

Some medications can cause those muscle spasms. She may have been on one or more medications with this side effect. Wonder if some of the bad reactions being reported are due to interactions with medication.

 

[Quijibo69]

I wonder what is going to happen to people that got the jab 10 years from now. That will be the most interesting thing.

 

[EyelessMC]

I hate this cocksucker.

You, Kary Mullis, and the rest of us. Agreed.

It comes from health issues being highly politicized. Note: These are the same vaccines Trump would have released.

Yeah, I keep having to repeat that to people posting from both sides of the political spectrum. Great point about the testing thing, too. It's why I've said this is BigPharma being BigPharma just on a new level. Didn't know about the prophylaxis subject but that explains a lot, too.

Spoiler: On Bill Gates and Conspiracy Theories

Gates has a white savior complex and is so extreme he would associate with pedophiles who blackmail people so he could get the Noble Peace Prize. Technocrats, universally, are gigantic pieces of shit. Bezos, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg...All of them universally terrible human beings. Gates tries to buy off his guilt by being insanely obsessed with 'saving the world',

Yeah, a real Tikkun Olam fixation, which is weird since he's not even religious. I especially like how you put it here:

Just like Bezos represents an unrepentant, late-stage capitalism dystopia, Gates represents an unrepentant philanthropic dictator style dystopia with a ruling class and an underclass. Their goals and motivations aren't anything complicated. These are creatures of ego. They believe they don't need to change the world, they believe that their sheer wealth will bend it the way they want it to. And ultimately when it doesn't, they don't understand why.
[musings on the reason so many jump to conspiracy theories]
... Conspiracy gives order to the chaos. There is no order. There's no Oz. Its just an empty curtain. And to a lot of people, that's scarier than any conspiracy.

Part of the reason why a conspiracy theory exists is because there's evidence that something is there but it's unclear. The other part, and more prevalent aspect, is what you described so well. You hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of Gates and Bezos, and that's just part that. Ultimately what we see around us in the consequence of such men's actions (and governments, etc.) aren't cuts with surgical precision but rather jagged tears from disparate hands tugging in different directions. Those pulling at things, be it the technocrats, banking cliques, certain governing powers, etc. sometimes have shared aims or the path to their goal causes them to occasionally cross arms as they tug, but that momentary crisscross shouldn't be confused for evidence of a unified conspiracy of powers. That's why I bring up the Sexual Revolution whenever a NWO kind of idea comes up. It's a good example of how things can spiral without there being a men in suits directing events to follow a singular plan.

But you're right in that there's a strange comfort in believing most, if not all events are guided by a singular wicked cabal with grand designs. It's like the idea of an anti-God, the idea that there's this force that, albeit malevolent, is ultimately in control. Even in Christianity where Satan is presented as a "ruler of the age" it's a rule of chaos, not order, and the actions of men come from their own hearts, not by Satan pulling their strings.
Plucking maybe, but not pulling. lol

tl;dr I agree. As for how his relates to the Covid vaccines, I think focusing more on the science and the individual entities involved is more productive than worrying it's part of a global depopulation conspiracy by whatever powers that be. Just look at the kind of information we can share and what we can learn when we don't obsess over shadows.

Lizard people totally exist though.

lol Speaking of, my friend's dad had been watching the UFO leaks and after re-watching the classic War of the Worlds he's almost convinced the mass vaccination isn't for Covid but really a secret plan to immunize people from whatever space germs would come from the alien life that's going to make itself known. He's not schizophrenic, thankfully, just that he smokes too much weed.

I mean, the government is not a moral entity and deserves as little power as humanly possible. But again, a lot of these things are carried out by individuals.

My point precisely.

Even the Wuhan lab was probably insulated from the CCP which is why they didn't know what the fuck was going on until it was too late.

Even if the CCP did know that doesn't mean it was an intentional outbreak. Communist governments are known to be adept at incompetence in certain areas. And even if it was intentional like that one scientist believes after having studied the virus itself, it's not like it would've been a conspiracy agreed upon between China and other world powers. Watching everything unfold from the start helps ameliorate such suspicions though. The CCP was definitely concerned about covering its ass from the beginning, like you said.
I'll still never forget how the WHO kept denying that the pandemic was a pandemic, let alone its origin, for so long.

The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Which is true even within the CCP itself, let alone so many other aspects of this and how things have progressed since even abroad.

Why did China threaten nuclear war over Wuhan? Because if they were shown to be incompetent enough to cause a world-wide pandemic, the CCP is over. They cannot hide something that huge from the populace. So fuck it, maswell take everyone down with them. Again, sometimes its just some asshole doing something he's not supposed to without anyone knowing about it until its too late. And that is fucking horrifying. But that's reality.

Exactly

This sounds like classic post-viral fatigue syndrome. [...]
This might help in the meantime: https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/our-services...service/post-viral-fatigue-a-guide-management

NICE. Adding this to the OP just in case someone else finds similar issues. Also gonna add that link on Polyethylene Glycol.

In all honesty, we can't know if the reaction was from the mRNA itself, the Spike protein or even one of the other constituents of the vaccine.

Hopefully there's less bias for the vaccines than presumed and the CDC invesitgation and other studies give definitive answers soon.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Some medications can cause those muscle spasms. She may have been on one or more medications with this side effect. Wonder if some of the bad reactions being reported are due to interactions with medication.

It looks like tardive dyskinesia, which occurs with some psychiatric medications. Some anti-psychotics and older anti-depressants. I highly doubt that is caused by the vaccine.

 

[RumblyTumbly]

It looks like the vaccines are doing what it is supposed to do, for the most part.

But I can't stress it enough that people should really consult a doctor before getting them. I'm no doctor, but the people that have had negative side effects are likely from specific conditions these people have or conflicting with other medication these people are taking.

Which is why telling people to willy nilly take the vaccine without consulting a doctor is wildly irresponsible. How many medications have disclaimers saying to consult a doctor before taking it?