CPS strike: Teachers and support staff, along with parks workers, will all strike on Oct. 17 if no contract deals reached -

Chicago

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They're doing it wrong.
If you're all about getting your demands met and don't care too much about public perception of your organization then you need to convince the public transportation agencies to go in with you on the strike.

It certainly worked here in the SF bay area when commuter train operators striked. Couple hundred thousand work commuters and their employers basically held hostage and unable to earn a living until the strike was over.
What do you all think public perception is for the CTU? I could be biased since I made it clear from the get go I'm tired of Illinois being run down to the ground. The blame could be pointed to many variables not just to the CTU, the Mayor, etc.
 

Krokodil Overdose

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@Chicago, refresh my memory: isn't there a clause in the state constitution that says that public pensions can't be impinged upon in anyway, making any sort of reform literally impossible? I seem to remember Rauner getting cucked by the IL Supreme Court on precisely this issue, but I could be getting confused again.
 
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Chicago

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@Chicago, refresh my memory: isn't there a clause in the state constitution that says that public pensions can't be impinged upon in anyway, making any sort of reform literally impossible? I seem to remember Rauner getting cucked by the IL Supreme Court on precisely this issue, but I could be getting confused again.
Did some snooping around. Even if reform could be done that's the 3rd rail for many politicians.


"Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel has called for an amendment to the state constitution to eliminate the clause that protects public pensions from being “diminished or impaired.”"

If there ever is another Republican President we might see Illinois being bailed out. Sorry from a fellow Illinoisan...
 

Daughter of Cernunnos

Lolifags belong in bodybags.
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Why do those who produce the worst results believe they deserve more benefits or pay? And what happens if their demands are refused? Chicago kids will no longer be taught how use word good, and instead be given lessons in Paleolithic fingerpainting?
No we should definitely give moar money to youth workers known to participate in or enable sexual abuse. Money solves everything! For real though, teachers in most countries have so poor results that they don't deserve to get paid a lot until they can produce better results. It won't help to throw money at a broken system and incompetent teachers. The whole damn education system needs radical change.
Foster care youth workers cannot seem to stop any of the corruption and abuse of children. They can't do the most fundamental task which is to protect the children. They don't deserve anything. Why should anyone without a high level understanding of developmental psychology even work with children to begin with? That goes for both teachers and youth workers.
Parents don't get to go on strike, what right do the youth workers have? They are all some of the children have for a caretaker.
 
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rocknrollmartian

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Why should anyone without a high level understanding of developmental pyschology even work with children to begin with?
What's a "high level understanding of developmental psychology"? The basic tenets of childhood and adolescent psychology are not that difficult to understand per se and are integrated throughout most education programs, either through dedicated psych courses or course emphases. (A good chunk of people who go into education have full degrees or minors in psychology as well.) Education programs focus far more on pie-in-the-sky pedagogical theory rife with "psychology" like Rogers's "unconditional positive regard" (which I do believe in but know that it has limitations as far as large-scale classroom management); much of this theory is not incredibly helpful in practice since it usually comes from a place where the theorist has assumed that the student population is compliant, motivated, and goal-oriented and has parents who value, support, and participate in their learning at home--this is not a high or unreasonable expectation by the way, but it's not happening for many kids.

Further, why do you think that a, say, 10th-grade math or English teacher should play "psychologist" as well? Teachers are required to observe, refer, and report as needed, but I don't understand the idea that teachers should be mental health professionals on top of teaching requisite academic content. Also, can we extend this to "why should anyone without a high level understanding of developmental psychology even have kids to begin with?" because that's where the real failing is.
 

Daughter of Cernunnos

Lolifags belong in bodybags.
kiwifarms.net
What's a "high level understanding of developmental psychology"? The basic tenets of childhood and adolescent psychology are not that difficult to understand per se and are integrated throughout most education programs, either through dedicated psych courses or course emphases. (A good chunk of people who go into education have full degrees or minors in psychology as well.) Education programs focus far more on pie-in-the-sky pedagogical theory rife with "psychology" like Rogers's "unconditional positive regard" (which I do believe in but know that it has limitations as far as large-scale classroom management); much of this theory is not incredibly helpful in practice since it usually comes from a place where the theorist has assumed that the student population is compliant, motivated, and goal-oriented and has parents who value, support, and participate in their learning at home--this is not a high or unreasonable expectation by the way, but it's not happening for many kids.

Further, why do you think that a, say, 10th-grade math or English teacher should play "psychologist" as well? Teachers are required to observe, refer, and report as needed, but I don't understand the idea that teachers should be mental health professionals on top of teaching requisite academic content. Also, can we extend this to "why should anyone without a high level understanding of developmental psychology even have kids to begin with?" because that's where the real failing is.
They don't have to be mental health professionals but if they are going to be teaching they have to have evidence based methods and an understanding of how children learn. Educational pyschology would especially be good. Professionals like that seem to understand how to teach in a way they actually grasp better than actual teachers. It seems what is taught in uni programs for would-be educators is more based on dogma than how the brain works. In Finland teachers are as highly paid, educated and respected as doctors. Maybe that is the way it should be everywhere.
 

rocknrollmartian

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They don't have to be mental health professionals but if they are going to be teaching they have to have evidence based methods and an understanding of how children learn.
That's literally the focus of education programs and most professional development/continuing ed seminars, at least in the US. Look up any education degree's requirements and you'll find classes like these:
Screen Shot 2019-10-04 at 5.26.55 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-10-04 at 5.27.23 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-10-04 at 5.29.32 PM.png
It's still not helping or bolstering certain populations for numerous reasons.
 

rocknrollmartian

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$10 says the kids test scores actually go up during the time period the Chicago Teachers are on strike.
Yeah, totally. Those kids are all thirsty for knowledge and are extremely self-motivated. It's only those pesky asshole teachers who are standing in the way of their success: "The Chicago Parent Centers model has been cited as evidence that parent participation has a major impact on children’s academic success and social development, and that it is a sure strategy for reducing the dropout rate. Each year that parents took part in the program increased the chances—by 16 percent—that their child would complete high school. For students whose parents were involved for the whole six years of the project, more than 80 percent graduated from high school, compared with 38 percent of students whose parents did not participate.

"Since 1987, more than 375,000 immigrant parents in California have increased their knowledge and skills to support their children’s academic achievement and enrollment in higher education by participating in the Parent Institute for Quality Education (PIQE) program. Since then, PIQE programs have expanded to other cities in Arizona, Texas, and Minnesota. A recent study documented that children of Hispanic parents who completed the San Diego PIQE program achieved a 93 percent high school graduation rate and 79.2 percent student enrollment in college or university."
 
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Stoneheart

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Each year that parents took part in the program increased the chances—by 16 percent—that their child would complete high school. For students whose parents were involved for the whole six years of the project, more than 80 percent graduated from high school, compared with 38 percent of students whose parents did not participate.
That doesnt mean shit... Parents that care about their children are important. those are willing to go to some stupid lectures, meetings or courses at school.
this number has 0 value...
 

rocknrollmartian

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That doesnt mean shit... Parents that care about their children are important. those are willing to go to some stupid lectures, meetings or courses at school.
this number has 0 value...
How do the numbers have zero value? After these specific programs were implemented, graduation/college enrollment rates rose dramatically. "Parents who care about their children" are critical, and some of these parents just needed more active, direct help and support to improve outcomes for their kids. Involved parenting is obviously the key above all else, yet many comments here seem to think the burden of success falls squarely on the shoulders of teachers, which makes no sense. (I don't like teachers who act like it's all on them, either, fwiw.) Again, how are teachers doing such a poor job that only the kids in the poor areas are catastrophically failing while kids in middle-class+ areas are doing just fine? Do people really think most teachers show up and don't even attempt to teach? Conversely, is every Title 1 teacher supposed to reenact Stand and Deliver or Dangerous Minds like they're living versions of ridiculous Hollywood tropes?
 

rocknrollmartian

kiwifarms.net
No you just need to leave Illinois period.
The whole State is under the thumb of Cook County, and on a side note this exact situation is why we have the Electoral College, and nothing can change that.
Just don't be one of those people who continues to vote Democrat after you leave.
Oh, I don't and never would live there, and I'm never voting Dem again. I do visit cucked liberal family members there who fled to the hyper-sanitized North Shore suburbs to avoid paying for expensive private schools for their kids in Chicago proper. Regressive racism is alive and well when white flight is the only viable option to take advantage of what one's taxes have funded.
 
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Doctor Jizzmopper

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How do the numbers have zero value? After these specific programs were implemented, graduation/college enrollment rates rose dramatically. "Parents who care about their children" are critical, and some of these parents just needed more active, direct help and support to improve outcomes for their kids. Involved parenting is obviously the key above all else, yet many comments here seem to think the burden of success falls squarely on the shoulders of teachers, which makes no sense. (I don't like teachers who act like it's all on them, either, fwiw.) Again, how are teachers doing such a poor job that only the kids in the poor areas are catastrophically failing while kids in middle-class+ areas are doing just fine? Do people really think most teachers show up and don't even attempt to teach? Conversely, is every Title 1 teacher supposed to reenact Stand and Deliver or Dangerous Minds like they're living versions of ridiculous Hollywood tropes?
If they are anything like our district, they are made up.

Title 1 schools get metric fucktons of dollars thrown at them.
 
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rocknrollmartian

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If they are anything like our district, they are made up.

Title 1 schools get metric fucktons of dollars thrown at them.
Does your district make up college matriculation figures? If so, ballsy. I'm aware that it can be easy to manipulate and inflate high school retention and graduation rates when standards can be lowered to push more kids through, though. Regardless, I firmly believe that parental engagement trumps all.

And yeah, Title 1 schools get funding, but admin can misuse that funding or earmark it for their own bizarre priorities. Funding also doesn't help juniors in high school who are functionally illiterate or don't know arithmetic. Many kids should've been forced to master the basics in elementary but weren't for various reasons, and then everything going forward became pointless for them. There's so much bullshit to wade through in education; "bad teachers" are just one component, and what defines "bad" is dubious depending on what teachers are forced to do by higher-ups, which is why I started sperging in this thread to begin with, lol.
 

Doctor Jizzmopper

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Does your district make up college matriculation figures? If so, ballsy. I'm aware that it can be easy to manipulate and inflate high school retention and graduation rates when standards can be lowered to push more kids through, though. Regardless, I firmly believe that parental engagement trumps all.

And yeah, Title 1 schools get funding, but admin can misuse that funding or earmark it for their own bizarre priorities. Funding also doesn't help juniors in high school who are functionally illiterate or don't know arithmetic. Many kids should've been forced to master the basics in elementary but weren't for various reasons, and then everything going forward became pointless for them. There's so much bullshit to wade through in education; "bad teachers" are just one component, and what defines "bad" is dubious depending on what teachers are forced to do by higher-ups, which is why I started sperging in this thread to begin with, lol.
Honestly, we are at a point that we don't know everything that is made up at this point.

Admin can kinda abuse some funding, or as in the other thread, spend it on exceptional shit like "Interactive Whiteboards for Tardz" which the teachers use as a normal whiteboard and ruin a $13,000 piece of equipment.

I'm still impressed at getting paid $100,000 a year to teach 16 kinders how to poop in the bowl and not eat boogers.
 
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Chicago

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I tried archiving as per dumbdude42's instructions through https://archive.li/

It's been at "#1 in queue." for several minutes now.


"Exasperated Lightfoot appeals to CTU to match her offer with ‘comprehensive’ counterproposal"

Great! Now the police union needs to throw a temper tantrum and get their way too. Like I said, the biggest losers are the taxpayers and once Lightfoot shows any sign of weakness the other unions join in.
 
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Manwithn0n0men

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I tried archiving as per dumbdude42's instructions through https://archive.li/

It's been at "#1 in queue." for several minutes now.


"Exasperated Lightfoot appeals to CTU to match her offer with ‘comprehensive’ counterproposal"

Great! Now the police union needs to throw a temper tantrum and get their way too. Like I said, the biggest losers are the taxpayers and once Lightfoot shows any sign of weakness the other unions join in.
Nah

Illinois State Government will probably just bail chicago out
 
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