Careercow Dan Harmon - Creator of Community, co-creator of Rick and Morty, and barely functional alcoholic

Angry Shoes

Untrue & Dishonest Fan
True & Honest Fan
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Believe it or not, from what I heard or read, Harmon was actually PISSED about people going crazy about looking for a artificially made Chinese sauce-y goodness. Looking for it was one thing, but going fucking crazy over it?
I don’t blame him. It makes him liable for the damage, and like I said, it severely hurt the show’s image and made the fans an international laughing stock.
But then he flipped the script to “they owe me royalties”
It's been a while, but if I remember correctly Justin was telling people not to be cunts to fast food employees and Dan was sperging out about them using his show to promote their product even though he wasn't notified or paid.
 

LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
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It's been a while, but if I remember correctly Justin was telling people not to be cunts to fast food employees and Dan was sperging out about them using his show to promote their product even though he wasn't notified or paid.
Yeah, Justin is an odd ball, but usually a decent human. Dan is just a bitter drunk who believes the world owes him a handout
 

Reverend

Avatar of Change
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One question though, can Adult Swim cancel their contract? Some of the major plot points, well, plot point could be solved within two seasons if they play it carefully. Even I'm like "Just do the Evil Morty throwdown" shit already, As much as I like the show, I don't think they can do much more with it.

Of course they can cancel the contract, throw enough money at Harmon and he will cave like a fat sack of shit that he is. Justin on the other hand will take his $$$ and go somewhere else and make more money. He likes the characters enough but is not going to rage like a screeching baboon like Harmon would. Harmon would sperg the fuck out just to get woke points and a bigger payout.

This is Harmon's "Fuck You" money for the rest of his shitty life and you damn sure know he's gonna ride this train as long as he can.
 

LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
kiwifarms.net
Of course they can cancel the contract, throw enough money at Harmon and he will cave like a fat sack of shit that he is. Justin on the other hand will take his $$$ and go somewhere else and make more money. He likes the characters enough but is not going to rage like a screeching baboon like Harmon would. Harmon would sperg the fuck out just to get woke points and a bigger payout.

This is Harmon's "Fuck You" money for the rest of his shitty life and you damn sure know he's gonna ride this train as long as he can.
I’m not sure what the specifics of the deal are, but the show could probably service if Harmon is removed from the picture. Justin however, he’s literally half the cast. They kinda need him. His contract is likely stricter
 

Pixy Misa

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I'm just starting to read this thread, I can't belive this guys is this bad. Because, damm I sincerely thought his take on the heroes journey was good and I liked his story circle as a tool for planing a story, and I even used it myself. It's the only thing I liked of him because it's my favorite method for making an outline.

Was that plagiarized or is it the only clever thing he has ever done?
 
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Chilson

kiwifarms.net
I'm just starting to read this thread, I can't belive this guys is this bad. Because, damm I sincerely thought his take on the heroes journey was good and I liked his story circle as a tool for planing a story, and I even used it myself. It's the only thing I liked of him because it's my favorite method for making an outline.

Was that plagiarized or is it the only clever thing he has ever done?
Dude, the heroes journey and "story circle" has been around for thousands of years. The fucking Greeks figured this shit out in between child fucking sessions. Its one of the most generic writing structures that pretty much any high school writing course will teach you.
 

Pixy Misa

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kiwifarms.net
Dude, the heroes journey and "story circle" has been around for thousands of years. The fucking Greeks figured this shit out in between child fucking sessions. Its one of the most generic writing structures that pretty much any high school writing course will teach you.


I know that. Joseph Campbell and all of that. That's why I said " I liked his take".

Obviously I know the heroes journey isn't his.

What I'm referring to is the way he simplified it and Cambell's method in an easy to use circle for scriptwriting. That is the specific method he uses that he made up is actually pretty good for scriptwriting. Heroe's Journey's by other authors are more like linear paths than circles.

Which is not to say I don't think he acts like a jackass, not I endorese his behaviour. But that I'm dissapointed somethng I liked is his.
 
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Chilson

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I know that. Joseph Campbell and all of that. That's what I said " I liked his take".

Obviously I know the heroes journey isn't his.

What I'm referring to is the way he simplified it and Cambell's method in an easy to use circle for scriptwriting. That is the specific method he uses that he made up is actually pretty good for scriptwriting. Heroe's Journey's by other authors are more like linear paths than circles.

Which is not to say I don't think he acts like a jackass, not I endorese his behaviour. But that I'm dissapointed somethng I liked is his.
I thought the circle method was the established way of teaching it. I have seen some linear models, but the circle method is far more common from what I have seen.
 

Pixy Misa

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kiwifarms.net
I thought the circle method was the established way of teaching it. I have seen some linear models, but the circle method is far more common from what I have seen.

I'm not an English major, so I'm not an expert, but to be honest I have yet to see a good circular method that is designed for scriptwriting that isn't his. Even the few other circular methods I've seen are designed to describe existing mythologies and not really to outline a story.

Keyword: designed for scriptwriting and story outlines. The few circular I have seen are more designed to explain religions and myths.

But, whatever, I'm not white knighting him. If there is a circular method specifically made for scriptwriting previous to him that I would like to know as I would rather credit someone else.
 

Justtocheck

#MafiaLoreHYPE $ $ $
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Yeah, Justin is an odd ball, but usually a decent human. Dan is just a bitter drunk who believes the world owes him a handout

I don't know man. He has a creepy stare and, I'm not saying he has the paedo look in his eyes, only that if my kid had summer camp with him as a gym coach, I'd deffo reconsider sending him.
 

LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
kiwifarms.net
I'm not an English major, so I'm not an expert, but to be honest I have yet to see a good circular method that is designed for scriptwriting that isn't his. Even the few other circular methods I've seen are designed to describe existing mythologies and not really to outline a story.

Keyword: designed for scriptwriting and story outlines. The few circular I have seen are more designed to explain religions and myths.

But, whatever, I'm not white knighting him. If there is a circular method specifically made for scriptwriting previous to him that I would like to know as I would rather credit someone else.
Here’s the problem with sticking to Heroes Journey it the circle, they’re too constricting. The reason every Disney/Pixar movie feels the same, and the reason plot points get so predictable is because you stick to the most basic of outlines and do little to deviate. No different then when a writer decides “I gotta fill 35 pages to make this script 22 minutes”
And then sticks to they 35 pages exactly with a new act every 11 and a half pages. While this is structurally sound, it’s boringly safe writing that never aspires to be anything.
There’s several other methods for story telling, and many don’t rely on the heroes journey at all.
But all that I feel really matters is the distinction between plot and story. Story being the character’s growth, and plot being what they do to cause this growth. Once you have those two concepts down, you don’t really need a circle method to draft an outline, just figure out a progression that makes sense for you
 

One Man Bland

kiwifarms.net
I'm not an English major, so I'm not an expert, but to be honest I have yet to see a good circular method that is designed for scriptwriting that isn't his. Even the few other circular methods I've seen are designed to describe existing mythologies and not really to outline a story.

Keyword: designed for scriptwriting and story outlines. The few circular I have seen are more designed to explain religions and myths.

But, whatever, I'm not white knighting him. If there is a circular method specifically made for scriptwriting previous to him that I would like to know as I would rather credit someone else.
Here’s the thing about those kinds Harmon style of learn-to-screenplay-in-10-easy-steps storytelling methods: they’re kind of like those “learn to draw manga” how-to books that were really popular in the early 2000s. Sure, the pictures look nice to an untrained eye and there might be a tip or two that is new to you, but at the end of the day you’re still just copying someone else’s drawings rather than developing/honing your own. That’s how you end up with a lot of scripts that follow such formulas quickly end up becoming either stale or worse, completely falls apart the second a concept that doesn’t fit neatly into that formula is introduced.

It’s also why I find a lot of the supposedly emotional moments in Harmon’s scripts come across as hollow and insincere. They’re written by someone who is looking to merely hit a designated story beat rather than by someone who’s genuinely interested in crafting those moments.
 

Pixy Misa

.
kiwifarms.net
Here’s the problem with sticking to Heroes Journey it the circle, they’re too constricting. The reason every Disney/Pixar movie feels the same, and the reason plot points get so predictable is because you stick to the most basic of outlines and do little to deviate. No different then when a writer decides “I gotta fill 35 pages to make this script 22 minutes”
It’s also why I find a lot of the supposedly emotional moments in Harmon’s scripts come across as hollow and insincere. They’re written by someone who is looking to merely hit a designated story beat rather than by someone who’s genuinely interested in crafting those moments.


Ok seems like I need to explain myself.

Before everything I want to say I'm not a fan of Harmon. I'm not white-knighting him. I was just disappointed that something I liked came from someone so gross. Like finding your favorite YouTuber has a lolcow thread...

First I'm not saying Harmon invented the Hero's Journey. Nor that all stories should be Hero's journeys. Though, I would say that most great stories are just a variation of it, and most stories overall are... But I digress.

I only said that Harmon's distillation of it for story outlines is actually pretty good and I use it often for outlines with good results.

Second, I won't defend him, but myself by saying I'm not copying his style. His version is actually very broad and not a series of emotional moments to copy like other methods out there. Nor does it have all the steps Campbell's has (because that isn't for outlines, But I digress).

In a nutshell, his take on the Hero's journey is a simple "things are some way and x character tries to change it". I don't think that's formulaic at all given it has a huge room for interpretation there. In fact the very reason I like it it's because it is so broad and not a series of very specific moments that have to happen so you can make a carbon copy of Star Wars.

Like this one for example (taken from change the cat):



1582511293955.png


Now that is a mess worthy of a How to draw manga book.

Like others have said, Hartman didn't invent this. He just made it easy for outlines. That's what I'm crediting him with. If you want to do a Hero's journey his method is not bad at all.

What I'm using for outlines is, again, the super broad concept that a heroe's journey is about protagonists that tries to change things. Not the super-specific steps like "a mentor has to show, and supernatural aid comes", "there should be a tempress" etc, etc. I agree the later does make stories feel the same.

Look I agree this guy is an asshole, but I do suspect this one of the few reasons actual professionals bother with him, instead of just being a complete no-name failure like Dobson.
 
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I don't know man. He has a creepy stare and, I'm not saying he has the paedo look in his eyes, only that if my kid had summer camp with him as a gym coach, I'd deffo reconsider sending him.

He's got a thing for 18 year olds with braces, dated one while making his podcast before Rick & Morty was picked up. He's also admitted to being molested by his babysitter while he was a child. I vaguely remember him talking about "fully formed fifteen year olds" at one point, but who knows if he was just trying to be edgy.
 

One Man Bland

kiwifarms.net

ChevroletBlackboard

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Hulu just released a Roiland-headed cartoon called "Solar Opposites" which so far feels like a less pretentious version of Rick & Morty. Anyone have any thoughts on it?
I remember when the trailer dropped a few people heard rumours that a lot of its crew were people Harmon had scared off Rick and Morty or driven away due to his attitude.

Given that Dan didn't even know Justin was pitching other shows, it suggests that this is Justin beginning to sever his ties with Harmon.
 

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