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Tism the Return

( ^ U ^ )
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Their excuse was some obscure guidebook Toriyama signed off on, which implied Power Levels weren't reliable

Powerlevels were too reliable, so much so Toriyama stopped using them because they made the readers know who'd win too easily if they could just check the numbers. It's why he had to introduce the gimmick of "X IS HIDING HIS TRUE POWER!!".
 
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Gisvarg

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Powerlevels were too reliable, so much so Toriyama stopped using them because in his they made the readers know who'd win too easily if they could just check the numbers. It's why he had to introduce the gimmick of "X IS HIDING HIS TRUE POWER!!".
Also Toriyama has the memory of a potato I doubt he'd grasp what could even top "Super Saiyan Goku is 150 million Freeza is 120 million," point of Dragon Ball is to be simple. If they said Cell had a powerlevel of 1.9 billion it would sound weird and excessive. Toriyama dropped them because the numbers were getting out of hand.

Hiei vs Sasuke: Yeah I'm glad Hiei won, but he didn't win for reasons that showed what makes people love that character and what makes him special. It was just "Big number uwu". No mention of how Hiei's battle strategy systematically deconstructs and dismantles the advantages of opponents that might be stronger than him, no demonstration of his Demon physiology that in-universe gives him strict advantages that the world of Naruto doesn't account for, and nothing of the self-improvement and self-immolation Hiei is infamous for in his greatest struggles which causes him to massively become more powerful in fights he should logically lose. (Because for being the stoic bad-ass character in the roster, Hiei's entire story is about how he pushes himself farther than anyone else would.) Just "Big number", it doesn't show any real respect to the characters when they don't demonstrate who they are in the fight and why people love them.

Worst part is that "Big number uwu" was a "Big miscalculation uwu" and Sasuke realistically should have annihilated. They gave a Hiei a hollow victory on the basis of something not true. Not into Naruto or YYH but I would imagine it angers both fanbases.
 
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SSj_Ness

Time to rape organized crime
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Ultra Instinct is pretty underwhelming and Superman had a similar technique 20 years prior.
I agree it's underwhelming in how it's utilized, and maybe just the idea generally, but in terms of power it's not. Goku could hardly keep up with Jiren at all without it. Then he forced Jiren to transform just to keep up.

Also, Goku was thrashed by the time he finally did tap into Mastered UI, whereas only a few decent strikes were landed on Jiren up until that point, and Goku still beat him. So, it's a pretty impressive form in terms of power, it's just not as unique as it should have been, essentially just another hair color.
 

Nikes_JustDoIt

Just Do It
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.Not sure if that’s the magnum opus for them, but I’d say that’s an episode you gotta put in the “must watch” and “best episodes” list if you ask me.
I think aside from the ones mentioned, this one is probably one of their best. Nearly everyone knew Snake was gonna win but it was unique and no power level bullshit.
 

Tism the Return

( ^ U ^ )
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Honestly, I’d say that explains a lot, although I’d say a lot of opinion hinges on feelings toward the characters and/or IPs being featured in an episode, assuming DB hasn’t gotten to the point where people come to be preconditioned to hate anything they do, justified or not.

As for your love examples: I’d say Saitama vs Popeye was probably the best way Saitama could have been featured in the show, and Balrog vs TJ Combo was just so damn good. From taking actual boxing styles into account, to treating and animating things like an actual title fight, to the music flowing well, everything about that I think is Death Battle when it’s hitting on all cylinders. Not sure if that’s the magnum opus for them, but I’d say that’s an episode you gotta put in the “must watch” and “best episodes” list if you ask me.

I said it before and I'll say it again but He-Man vs Lion-o was DB kino, the dialogue was delightfully corny in all the right ways and the results is whatever because
>getting seriously into arguing He-Man vs Lion-o
It's one of those times when everyone needs to enjoy the ride and it's an enjoyable one at that.
 

Random Internet Person

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I said it before and I'll say it again but He-Man vs Lion-o was DB kino, the dialogue was delightfully corny in all the right ways and the results is whatever because
>getting seriously into arguing He-Man vs Lion-o
It's one of those times when everyone needs to enjoy the ride and it's an enjoyable one at that.


Well that’s a flashback. And you’re right about it being silly. I can see the charm of it. you love the 80s?
 

Hooligan Handgun

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People wanted Bardock more apparently, never watched Invincible so I don't know the connections.
As far as I know, these are the connections for Bardock vs Omni-Man:
  • Both are the fathers of the main character and started off as part of a world conquering empire.
  • Both were dedicated to their causes until a change of heart caused them to switch sides and turn against their superiors.
There might be more, but that’s all I’ve heard.
 

Gisvarg

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As far as I know, these are the connections for Bardock vs Omni-Man:
  • Both are the fathers of the main character and started off as part of a world conquering empire.
  • Both were dedicated to their causes until a change of heart caused them to switch sides and turn against their superiors.
There might be more, but that’s all I’ve heard.
Still sounds better than Omni-Man vs Homelander.

Off topic from Death Battle but it's similar enough, would love a reboot of Deadliest Warrior with better research and analyses. Death Battle had terrible research in the beginning and while their conclusions are still shoddy at times they are still far better than before, same could happen for Deadliest Warrior.
 

SSj_Ness

Time to rape organized crime
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As far as I know, these are the connections for Bardock vs Omni-Man:
  • Both are the fathers of the main character and started off as part of a world conquering empire.
  • Both were dedicated to their causes until a change of heart caused them to switch sides and turn against their superiors.
There might be more, but that’s all I’ve heard.
I don't know anything about Ommi-Man but capeshit is usually overpowered, and Bardock is relatively weak. It'd probably be a boring curb stomp.
 

Hooligan Handgun

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I don't know anything about Ommi-Man but capeshit is usually overpowered, and Bardock is relatively weak. It'd probably be a boring curb stomp.
From what I’ve heard, Omni-Man’s around planet level and some degree of FTL.

I don’t think it would necessarily be a stomp since Bardock’s around the same stats afaik, but it would be closer than Omni-Man vs Homelander.
 

SSj_Ness

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From what I’ve heard, Omni-Man’s around planet level and some degree of FTL.

I don’t think it would necessarily be a stomp since Bardock’s around the same stats afaik, but it would be closer than Omni-Man vs Homelander.
Bardock is definitely in that area of speed, but I don't think he's at planet level. In that case I suppose it would depend on certain factors, like whether they have Bardock use his Great Ape form or not.

I don't believe they include non-canon feats so Bardock wouldn't have access to any Super Saiyan forms either (better that way, if he had SS4 the curb stomp would be the other way around).
 

GosalynGaming

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From what I’ve heard, Omni-Man’s around planet level and some degree of FTL.

I don’t think it would necessarily be a stomp since Bardock’s around the same stats afaik, but it would be closer than Omni-Man vs Homelander.
I do think there even more than just Bardock that would be better than Homelander. There literally a ton of evil Superman characters out there that scale better to Omni-Man or Homelander.
 

Gisvarg

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Bardock is definitely in that area of speed, but I don't think he's at planet level. In that case I suppose it would depend on certain factors, like whether they have Bardock use his Great Ape form or not.

I don't believe they include non-canon feats so Bardock wouldn't have access to any Super Saiyan forms either (better that way, if he had SS4 the curb stomp would be the other way around).
I actually think it's the opposite. Bardock is planet level and stronger than Omni-Man, but looking on other sites Omni-Man has him beat in speed.

I remember hearing DB cast saying they would use anime Bardock if they ever used him. Would make sense as he is the more popular, fleshed out, and beloved version than what we actually have. He was approaching King Vegeta's powerlevel, and King Vegeta in the anime can nuke 3 planets with a handwave. Wasn't there a guidebook which also said 10,000 (King Vegeta's powerlevel) was enough to destroy a planet too?

Meanwhile Omni-Man can apparently cross interstellar space and reach other solar systems and habitated planets in days. That would make him hundreds of thousands of times faster than light, way too fast for Bardock.

Same sites that say that for Omni-Man would make anime Bardock thousands of times stronger than Omni-Man from King Vegeta's feat.
 

SSj_Ness

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I actually think it's the opposite. Bardock is planet level and stronger than Omni-Man, but looking on other sites Omni-Man has him beat in speed.

I remember hearing DB cast saying they would use anime Bardock if they ever used him. Would make sense as he is the more popular, fleshed out, and beloved version than what we actually have. He was approaching King Vegeta's powerlevel, and King Vegeta in the anime can nuke 3 planets with a handwave. Wasn't there a guidebook which also said 10,000 (King Vegeta's powerlevel) was enough to destroy a planet too?

Meanwhile Omni-Man can apparently cross interstellar space and reach other solar systems and habitated planets in days. That would make him hundreds of thousands of times faster than light, way too fast for Bardock.

Same sites that say that for Omni-Man would make anime Bardock thousands of times stronger than Omni-Man from King Vegeta's feat.
In that case, the anime differs a lot. I don't know too much about guidebook statements, if 10k is enough to planet bust then he's at least that strong (his power level was stated as 10k but I don't know if that's before or after his recovery, which would boost his power). The earliest canon power level for that was Vegeta trying to destroy Goku/Earth, at 18,000.

As for speed, Bardock's FTL but definitely not by as much as that, so not fast enough at all. However, sometimes people distinguish between battle speed and travel speed, though even authors don't usually seem to consistently do so, but it's worth mentioning.
 

Mao Hao Hao

Monch Monch, Nyaaaaa.......
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Can Homelander even go into (and survive) space? I tried looking it up, but he certainly hasn't been there in the show, from what I remember, and there's no mention of it from the comics. Omni-Man obviously can, so I guess it will come down to that, which seems rather obvious who will win when looking at it from that perspective.