Death of the Franchise Adaption - Or How Movies Are Shit for Long-Form Stories

[God of Nothing]

Case in point. The desire but ultimate inability to come any conclusion, much less a sensible one. Followed by a desperate generalized agreeable statement in a sad attempt to return to the former state of a comfortable unthinking miasma.

My conclusion was the Snyderverse sucked and nothing could be done to salvage the trashfire that Justice League was as a concept, not even extending the film by two godawful hours. Agreeable? Yeah, I didn't want to get into it with you over a capeshit flick like a manchild. If you think discussing or debating over this nonsense is productive whatsoever, I urge you to reconsider.

I don't even know why I responded to your fedora post. This is a waste of everyone's time. Nice rant, Secret Asshole, but I'm not sure it needed a thread.

 

[verissimus]

It helps a lot that modern TV's effects are better than a lot of Hollywood movies from 20+ years ago. The average has passed the minimum for it to not look stupid or overly restrained.

This is actually a very important overall point. TV and Movies have had a sort of tug of war for decades with the former always having to catch up. These days, TV has pretty much caught up to movies in certain genres (drama, comedy, etc.) Hek, they've currently caught up to movies in the fantasy department although I doubt we'll see future fantasy TV series after Amazon's LOTR series since they're too expensive to make.

 

[HaloTragedyJT]

My conclusion was the Snyderverse sucked and nothing could be done to salvage the trashfire that Justice League was as a concept, not even extending the film by two godawful hours. Agreeable? Yeah, I didn't want to get into it with you over a capeshit flick like a manchild. If you think discussing or debating over this nonsense is productive whatsoever, I urge you to reconsider.

I don't even know why I responded to your fedora post. This is a waste of everyone's time. Nice rant, Secret Asshole, but I'm not sure it needed a thread.

Mindlessly obeying the word of Mike Stoklasa and Jay Bauman is not a conclusion. Snyderverse suffered for Secret Asshole's 2nd point. Zack Snyder was never allowed to enact the kind of vision needed for DC to truly compete. He was undercut and undermined at every point because it wasn't "like marvel". The Snydercut of Justice League was markedly better, but ultimately too little too late. If it had a unified vision, and was allowed to be the dark and edgy side of things, it would have picked up the torch from where Endgame left off. But it didn't.

You can't reclaim the comfort that was lost. I'm sorry. You can freak out or crumble, you have no alternative . . .

 

[Blamo]

I think the cinematic universe and movie series is a tool, not the only tool. Of course execs seem to thing that only one thing can work and they copy something a decade or two after the fact. I am not a fan of anything Hollywood makes, but the idea was fresh back then. It was a bold move that paid out in the end.

See how bold the Marvel movies were, or how Star Wars's sequel the Empire strikes back was dismissed first because in the 70s sequels were just the cheap cash grab movie nobody really cared about. If we look at the industry we live in the shadow of Star Wars, for decades the executives want something that can have sequels, be toyetic and be neutral enough to be globally viable. Ironic considering George Lucas just made a movie that at the time was considered a thing nobody would watch and the guy just wanted to promote indie style movie making over the studio system.

Not to mention like everything in the world, the entertainment business really depends on how the media is curating reality for people.
I sincerely doubt without the media's insane push the Harry Potter books would have got off the ground.

Though honestly fuck Western entertainment. Shit is gross. Let it all die.

At least fuck the centralized production and distribution structure and have more freedom. Can you consider the media free when like 5 corporations own all of it?
I am sure it would be possible to make fresh and fun new stuff if it wasn't a totally controlled industry where saying one bad thing could blacklist you.

It’s also one of the reasons why I get nervous seeing YouTubers’ takes on the flavor of the month series, Invincible.

Not that I can’t think for myself; it’s just the more that I look at the fandom, it just seems unbearable to witness.

The whole thing screams viral marketing and manipulated YouTube recommendations to me. The baby yoda formula is strong.

 

[Product Placement]

If you plan for a movie to be a series great, just makes sure the first movie or two works as stand alone movies in case that doesn't happen.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The problem with modern adaptions is two fold:
1. No real wish to setup - while the movies will try to trick the audience into investing their time in watching every adaption, it's kind of a lie. You can still watch all of the MCU shit without need for previous films, including the "finale" that's just a race to collect stones. Up until Infinity War there is no actual "set up" film, in every other work the villain is defeated and all the plot threads are solved.
Why it's bad? Because there is never an increasing stakes or development that's derived from the heroes gearing up or failing. There is no "Fellowship of the Ring" or "The Empire Strikes back", so the emotional investment is created and spent in the same movie. Even fucking TLJ couldn't be a set up film and had to still give the rebels a win.

2. No respect for the source - When you treat the source like shit and use it as a way to spread your globohomo worldview then the quality turns to shit. And just about every modern adaption is helmed by some rich fuck who thinks he can do better than the original creator. It also comes into effect in Marvel, where everything now is infested by cynical world view and self aggrandisement.

I put in the poll that it will never end, and that's because it's the final devolution of Hollywood cinema - an endless cycle of telling the same stories and then promoting new stories by using nostalgia of the old ones. The only way to stop it is either kill any person who thinks recognising a name means it will be a positive experience, or having Hollywood die with the USA economy.

 

[BeeGunner]

Cool story bro

 

[Dang Woodchucks!]

It’s also one of the reasons why I get nervous seeing YouTubers’ takes on the flavor of the month series, Invincible.

Not that I can’t think for myself; it’s just the more that I look at the fandom, it just seems unbearable to witness.

Hehe, le funny mustache man tells funny bloodied man to think, hehehe...

Because RedLetterMedia told you it was bad, and you're not capable of critical thought.

Y'know i never understood how those retards were ever taken seriously by anyone, much less how or why some people still do.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Y'know i never understood how those retards were ever taken seriously by anyone, much less how or why some people still do.

Everything they've said about Star Trek is not just objectively correct, but factual too.

 

[White Devil]

Y'know i never understood how those retards were ever taken seriously by anyone, much less how or why some people still do.

This. I've always felt RLM was a fucking cult to people who refuse to think for themselves or objectively analyze anything.

 

[verissimus]

No real wish to setup

...you mean in terms of plot right? Because they do establish the characters outside say some main villain along with the plot that goes with said villain.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

...you mean in terms of plot right? Because they do establish the characters outside say some main villain along with the plot that goes with said villain.

I mean set up for another movie. Like with the examples of Fellowship and Emperor Strikes Back.

 

[verissimus]

I mean set up for another movie. Like with the examples of Fellowship and Emperor Strikes Back.

Oh right. Yeah that's true, but I honestly don't think they should do that. They don't even do that in the comics at least in terms of going from one arc to another.

 

[Übertroon]

I can enjoy a storyline that goes past a single movie, but only if it's well planned in advance. I'm sick and tired of these short sighted director wank fests where each movie writes the next one into a corner or the next guy decides he didn't like the old story and throws everything out the window.

 

[HaloTragedyJT]

Y'know i never understood how those retards were ever taken seriously by anyone, much less how or why some people still do.

I mean, we're talking about a cadre of flyover failures who got famous for pointing out the Prequel Trilogy wasn't perfect. Wow. Uh-mazin. Fantasical. And then got throroughly blown the fuck out after Disney succeeded in making movies that were abject trash for them to coom and sneed over in hours of incoherant drunken rambling.

IMHO They lost all credibility when they released the unfunny trashfire that was Space Cop. Unfortunately, many unthinking trogs like @God of Nothing still outsource their opinions to them. Must be comfy having your head flooded with worthless opinions on shit you were never gonna watch anyways.

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

Movie franchises fritter out because because most sequels weren't planned and are just rehashes of the first movie in the hope that they can recapture its audience. They're happy to piss over existing lore (breaking up the main couple, killing off beloved characters, destroying what the heroes were trying to accomplish in the first movie), if it makes it easier to hash out a script while the franchises' window of popularity still exists. Big movie franchises also tend to be spectacles, filmed around special effect/action setpieces. The story is often just an excuse to tie together whatever elements currently serving as a dopamine drip for the audience.

Seriallized storytelling works better in TV, especially now that cable/streaming is a thing and networks no longer have to worry about making each episode a stand-alone story, potentially airable in any order. I'm certain anime, which has been telling long form stories for decades, had something to do with making this popular in the West, as more and more nerds started watching it. Nerds will often bash older fantasy movies for being somewhat on the nose about their exposition, using narration or an exposition dump to relate story to the audience, because they're so used to long form TV or movie series that unfold the plot slowly over several episodes (or over several movies.) While exposition dumps can be done badly, that's not always the case. And some exposition dumps can even end up being the highlight of the movie they're in. In the rush to push more profitable long form storytelling, short-form storytelling often gets dismissed as frivolous or cheap, even though it can often be of a higher quality, and be far more accessible to casual audiences, than long form storytelling.

There's something to be said for watching an epic fantasy story unfold over an entire season or series of movies, but there's also advantages to having a tightly scripted story that tells an epic story in 90 minutes or less. Movies used to be able to do that. Big Trouble in Little China -one of the most complex and action packed fantasy/action movies I've ever seen, wrapped up it's story in a brisk 99 minutes. Not a single minute of it feels wasted or rushed. Nowadays, you can't make a special effects laden genre film without padding it out to 2-1/2 hours or longer, otherwise audiences will feel cheated. America has done with movies what it has done with restaurant food -giving patrons over-sized portions of bland product that are barely consumable in a single setting, because people complain if they get any less than that.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

As someone who mostly dislikes the MCU (Its just not my cup of tea), the one thing I really hate bout its success is that every other franchise is now desperately trying to copy "the marvel formula" and adding retarded quips every 5 minutes hoping to capture some of that success and some franchises aren't really made to be lighthearted comedies like the MCU is

 

[Goodbye Horses]

As someone who mostly dislikes the MCU (Its just not my cup of tea), the one thing I really hate bout its success is that every other franchise is now desperately trying to copy "the marvel formula" and adding retarded quips every 5 minutes hoping to capture some of that success and some franchises aren't really made to be lighthearted comedies like the MCU is

The Snyder cut is a much better movie for having all of the Whedon bullshit cut from it. It's still far too long and the pacing is atrociously bad, but at least nobody is cracking jokes while civilians are being slaughtered anymore. Even most of the Marvel movies are markedly better since they got rid of Whedon, Thor Ragnarok and it's retarded jokes to undercut every single moment of pathos aside.

 

[LordofTendons]

The Snyder cut is a much better movie for having all of the Whedon bullshit cut from it. It's still far too long and the pacing is atrociously bad, but at least nobody is cracking jokes while civilians are being slaughtered anymore. Even most of the Marvel movies are markedly better since they got rid of Whedon, Thor Ragnarok and it's retarded jokes to undercut every single moment of pathos aside.

Those Whedon quips-- they were funny when a) I didn't know what he was and b) they weren't every other line of dialogue. There comes a point where, you know, I get it. I know you think the people who watch your stuff are stupid and that these movies are beneath you, but we're paying you to make the fucking film, not fling insults for two hours in the theater.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Zack Snyder was never allowed to enact the kind of vision needed for DC to truly compete.

The only way for Zack Snyder to enact the kind of vision needed for DC to truly compete would be for someone who isn't shit to do it in his name.

Man of Steel Sucks, Saying Batman vs Superman sucks is an insult to other movies that just suck, and Snyder League sucks, All of them are terrible fucking Trash. The First 10 minutes of his "Vision" is a Scientist beating up 3 Military People in a society where we find out that everyone is Genetically Tailored for their Caste and things really only get worse from there.