Death of the Franchise Adaption - Or How Movies Are Shit for Long-Form Stories

[Syaoran Li]

The problem with franchises/cinematic universes is that they can work even nowadays but only if people stopped trying to copy the MCU or Snyder DC formulas to one degree or another.

The Dark Universe is the most egregious example of a major studio fucking up something that should've been an easy win. Universal Horror was the original "cinematic universe" for fuck's sake, but they fucked it up right out the gate.

The only other cinematic universes that seem to be doing alright aside from the MCU would be the MonsterVerse. I haven't really seen any of those movies so I can't comment on them but I've heard good things about them.

We need more original IP's, stand-alone films that aren't just stuffy boring arthouse films and "Oscar bait", and mid-budget movies but sadly the bigwigs in Hollywood don't want that.

I still think the capeshit fad's primed to crash and burn so badly that even Hollywood can't ignore it. Superheroes will be to the 2010's what Westerns were to the 1950's, a fad that got way oversaturated and eventually killed the genre outright.

 

[Lensherr]

The problem with franchises/cinematic universes is that they can work even nowadays but only if people stopped trying to copy the MCU or Snyder DC formulas to one degree or another.

The Dark Universe is the most egregious example of a major studio fucking up something that should've been an easy win. Universal Horror was the original "cinematic universe" for fuck's sake, but they fucked it up right out the gate.

The only other cinematic universes that seem to be doing alright aside from the MCU would be the MonsterVerse. I haven't really seen any of those movies so I can't comment on them but I've heard good things about them.

We need more original IP's, stand-alone films that aren't just stuffy boring arthouse films and "Oscar bait", and mid-budget movies but sadly the bigwigs in Hollywood don't want that.

I still think the capeshit fad's primed to crash and burn so badly that even Hollywood can't ignore it. Superheroes will be to the 2010's what Westerns were to the 1950's, a fad that got way oversaturated and eventually killed the genre outright.

Do you think that an MCU movie flopping could finally be what does it in?

 

[Syaoran Li]

Do you think that an MCU movie flopping could finally be what does it in?

Possibly, especially since the MCU has fared a lot better than its DC equivalent.

The MCU films are notoriously expensive to make even by the high standards of a Hollywood blockbuster and if it flops bad enough that neither streaming premieres nor the Chinese market can effectively cover it up, then that might cause capeshit to die.

More than likely, it might take two MCU flops to ensure this since I'd say even Disney knows certain turbo-woke films are at risk of being flops or at least underperforming while still profiting from opening weekend sales.

 

[Xerxes IX]

Possibly, especially since the MCU has fared a lot better than its DC equivalent.

The MCU films are notoriously expensive to make even by the high standards of a Hollywood blockbuster and if it flops bad enough that neither streaming premieres nor the Chinese market can effectively cover it up, then that might cause capeshit to die.

More than likely, it might take two MCU flops to ensure this since I'd say even Disney knows certain turbo-woke films are at risk of being flops or at least underperforming while still profiting from opening weekend sales.

I have a feeling part of why the next MCU Phase is going turbo woke (besides the true believers of course) is because they'll have a built in escape button for when capeshit dies. When their films start flopping they can throw their hands up and say there was nothing they can do dood, audiences are just too bigoted.

 

[White Devil]

I have a feeling part of why the next MCU Phase is going turbo woke (besides the true believers of course) is because they'll have a built in escape button for when capeshit dies. When their films start flopping they can throw their hands up and say there was nothing they can do dood, audiences are just too bigoted.

That excuse never actually works though. See how they rolled over on Ghostbusters and are doing a new one to appeal to the actual fans of the franchise instead of the harpies they were going for with the fat chicks one.

 

[Secret Asshole]

I kind of didn't intend for this thread to be an MCU vs. DCU pissing contest. The thing is the MCU sort of 'finished' with endgame. Its basically going for a sequel universe. The problem is 'what now'? The MCU has succeeded once. But now it is rearing up to do it again. Can it generate another meta plot? My theory is it can't. The problem is time and escalation. So regardless, the DCU focusing on small form, tightly knit, non-consecutive and non-traditional movies like Joker will make it succeed. IMO, its smarter to rely on Snyder as he brings weird and unconventional to the table in an era where we have cookie cutter entertainment. Joker was so successful because it WASN'T an MCU formula-led movie. So Snyder generating movies would be a smarter call since stylistically he's very different.

My thing with Marvel's woke bait films is that they know their model is difficult to win over twice. Winning once was difficult enough, but twice? Especially in an era where television and streaming services own longer form stories? They've got to know. I mean, none of their movies seem to be interesting. Ching chong bing bong? Alright, you're not China or Japan, no one wants an MCU kung fu movie. Pass. The Eternals? Jack Kirby's shit was weird and typically cut off from Marvel proper. Still looking for a replacement for the X-Men. Pass. Black Widow? Character's dead. Might be fun, but well, it won't fit for the next event. The Marvels? Hah, Captain Marvel couldn't even fucking carry her own movie and now you have to jam it with every character named Marvel. Pass. Black Panther 2? I feel bad for Chadwick Bosman, that really sucks. But the rumor is Shani is going to be the next Black Panther with Namor as the villain. Pass. Changed Doctor Strange 2 from being a lovecraftian horror movie to a roller coaster ride. Pass. Natalie Portman Thor with that horrible actress. Pass. Blade is PG-13. Pass.

Like, that's what they have in the pipe. I find it hard to build a second story around these people. But that's kind of off topic.

A lot of people have made good points, especially about anime, which has done long-form story-telling well. I just think adaptions and franchises are going to eventually lose out. There's just too much competition and with streaming, long form is good because you don't need to wait a week. You can binge it or watch it at your leisure. You can stop it and start it and you don't have to sit through a two hour movie. Though of course there are some I wish became franchises and series looks at Dredd.

This is actually a very important overall point. TV and Movies have had a sort of tug of war for decades with the former always having to catch up. These days, TV has pretty much caught up to movies in certain genres (drama, comedy, etc.) Hek, they've currently caught up to movies in the fantasy department although I doubt we'll see future fantasy TV series after Amazon's LOTR series since they're too expensive to make.

Well, TV had a struggle for a long time because TV was viewed as 'less prestigious' than film. So this is another reason why TV lagged behind. But honestly this is largely gone because TV has outshined a lot of movies recently.

Movie franchises fritter out because because most sequels weren't planned and are just rehashes of the first movie in the hope that they can recapture its audience. They're happy to piss over existing lore (breaking up the main couple, killing off beloved characters, destroying what the heroes were trying to accomplish in the first movie), if it makes it easier to hash out a script while the franchises' window of popularity still exists. Big movie franchises also tend to be spectacles, filmed around special effect/action setpieces. The story is often just an excuse to tie together whatever elements currently serving as a dopamine drip for the audience.

Seriallized storytelling works better in TV, especially now that cable/streaming is a thing and networks no longer have to worry about making each episode a stand-alone story, potentially airable in any order. I'm certain anime, which has been telling long form stories for decades, had something to do with making this popular in the West, as more and more nerds started watching it. Nerds will often bash older fantasy movies for being somewhat on the nose about their exposition, using narration or an exposition dump to relate story to the audience, because they're so used to long form TV or movie series that unfold the plot slowly over several episodes (or over several movies.) While exposition dumps can be done badly, that's not always the case. And some exposition dumps can even end up being the highlight of the movie they're in. In the rush to push more profitable long form storytelling, short-form storytelling often gets dismissed as frivolous or cheap, even though it can often be of a higher quality, and be far more accessible to casual audiences, than long form storytelling.

There's something to be said for watching an epic fantasy story unfold over an entire season or series of movies, but there's also advantages to having a tightly scripted story that tells an epic story in 90 minutes or less. Movies used to be able to do that. Big Trouble in Little China -one of the most complex and action packed fantasy/action movies I've ever seen, wrapped up it's story in a brisk 99 minutes. Not a single minute of it feels wasted or rushed. Nowadays, you can't make a special effects laden genre film without padding it out to 2-1/2 hours or longer, otherwise audiences will feel cheated. America has done with movies what it has done with restaurant food -giving patrons over-sized portions of bland product that are barely consumable in a single setting, because people complain if they get any less than that.

I agree with a lot of it, but that speech from Jaws isn't an exposition dump, it is a monologue. I know its a nit-pick, but I'm an asshole.

As someone who mostly dislikes the MCU (Its just not my cup of tea), the one thing I really hate bout its success is that every other franchise is now desperately trying to copy "the marvel formula" and adding retarded quips every 5 minutes hoping to capture some of that success and some franchises aren't really made to be lighthearted comedies like the MCU is

Its been less prevalent nowadays because they've all failed miserably.