Debate user 'Mother puss bucket' about feminism and TERFs in tranny threads -

[Irrelevant]

I love how even on KF feminists get upset and won't accept any responsibility for the trans lunacy. You can talk shit about killing black people, Jews, etc and be ignored but saying feminists' were hoist by their own petard is a quick way to collect disagree/autistic ratings.

Is it zoomers too young to remember "gender is a social construct" or Mumsnet exiles refusing to own their mistakes?

Sure, no feminist was campaigning specifically for this outcome but "institutional feminism" created the environment that allowed it to happen.

Even the need to add a "trans exclusionary" prefix implies that plain old "radical feminism" was pro-trans first.

 

[BunnyMim]

I love how even on KF feminists get upset and won't accept any responsibility for the trans lunacy. You can talk shit about killing black people, Jews, etc and be ignored but saying feminists' were hoist by their own petard is a quick way to collect disagree/autistic ratings.

Is it zoomers too young to remember "gender is a social construct" or Mumsnet exiles refusing to own their mistakes?

Sure, no feminist was campaigning specifically for this but "institutional feminism" created the environment that allowed it to happen.

What’s sad about current liberal feminism is that they think selling asshole pics for $7 won’t ruin their life, but saying trannies are men will.

 

[Sustainable War]

no, it's feminists who set up the culture and environment that gives protection and support to the men who are running grooming discords and spamming the internet with sissy hypno erotica.
in pre feminist society, situations like this were handled by fag bashings and lynchings.

Pre-fucking-cisely. You wanted to "smash the patriarchy"? Well, this is the shit the patriarchy was protecting you from. How do you like it now?

This is rightoids' faults as much as it is progressives'. They've been enforcing rigid gender roles for years, and nobody troons out harder than a rightoid. There's a reason there's a huge number of formerly MRA and incel troons, somebody, before any exposure to queer ideology, was telling them that if you play with dolls and wear pink even once you are a girl and girls are dumb bitches. Out of all these fucked up parents trooning out their kids, so many of them have conservative tilts - the mermaids' leader's husband was freaking out about a gay son, but embraced him as a girl, recently on another thread they showed the kid on the front of National Geographic has a Southern Baptist mother - fucking pat robertson supports trans people, but gays can still go to hell. And there's a reason "patriarchy-dominated" countries like Pakistan and Iran are embracing troonery, and it's not because of the popularity of queer studies and radical feminists.

The gay rights movement has had so many fuck ups and dumbassery and had a big part to play in modern troonery, and radfems certainly always played the same gender games as troons where gender was only a social construct when they wanted (that's not including all their other toxic sexist shit.) But the same rigid conservative ideals that led to all that fag bashing have bred troonery like rabbits on ecstacy.

 

[Calculus]

I love how even on KF feminists get upset and won't accept any responsibility for the trans lunacy. You can talk shit about killing black people, Jews, etc and be ignored but saying feminists' were hoist by their own petard is a quick way to collect disagree/autistic ratings.

Is it zoomers too young to remember "gender is a social construct" or Mumsnet exiles refusing to own their mistakes?

Sure, no feminist was campaigning specifically for this but "institutional feminism" created the environment that allowed it to happen.

Radical feminism (radical meaning from the root) has never supported this. The biggest anti-trans movement has always been radical feminism. "Gender is a social construct" was not created by a radical feminist.

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon which consists of women being brainwashed into doing what men want but thinking they are the ones in control. These are the feminists that are pro-trans. Notice that these feminists, that support men's wishes, are a lot more successful than radical feminists. We hear about MTF but seldom FTM.

But women must always be to blame for men's actions in a society controlled by men...

 

[DumbDude42]

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon

liberal feminism has been the dominant form for like at least half a century now lol

 

[Imposteroak]

Radical feminism (radical meaning from the root) has never supported this. The biggest anti-trans movement has always been radical feminism. "Gender is a social construct" was not created by a radical feminist.

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon which consists of women being brainwashed into doing what men want but thinking they are the ones in control. These are the feminists that are pro-trans. Notice that these feminists, that support men's wishes, are a lot more successful than radical feminists. We hear about MTF but seldom FTM.

But women must always be to blame for men's actions in a society controlled by men...

The patriarchy has apparently been around forever, but the latest rise of troonacy happened to coincide with intersectional feminism. I'm more sympathetic to our rad fem posters than the incel kiwis, but I am not convinced that this latest insanity is that dang old toxic masculinity fault on its own.

 

[bluegenius8585]

If you push any ideology too far it's likely to spawn some retardation. Patriarchy can lead to radical islam style "women shouldn't be allowed to go outside without wearing spooky ghost costumes and being accompanied by men" bullshit.

But someone claims that Mo was the original feminist

 

[Terrorist]

lmao nice fantasy. Rome apparently never existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus
And as Sustainable War said, modern Arab countries where women have fewer rights than men but transgender surgery is funded by the government.

What do you expect them to do when they don't have governmental power? What have you done to solve it besides shitposting on kiwifarms?

Don't project your own loneliness and anger onto me. I already know what led us to this state.

1. OK, so 2 examples of transgenderism under patriarchy - one an insane aristocrat in a dying empire who had the unlimited power to flaunt gender norms as he wished, the other a modern medical abomination in one country only (Iran) iirc. Got any more? In the vast majority of patriarchies, men were expected to act as men, with the responsibilities that entailed, and deviation was severely punished. The retarded radfem conception of history, in which men were free to indulge however they pleased while women were slaves and broodmares, isn’t true.

2. If TERFs had governmental power, we’d end up in the same place we are now in a generation or two, as was the trajectory of 2nd and 3rd wave feminism. RF, which teaches gender roles are oppressive social constructs that must be abolished and the distinction between “man” and “woman” should hold little practical meaning, easily leads to the T it tries to E. It’s a slippery slope. Most radfems recognize this and embrace it, which is why TERFs are such a minority.

3. What, in your opinion, led us to where we are now?

 

[keke]

Radical feminism (radical meaning from the root) has never supported this. The biggest anti-trans movement has always been radical feminism. "Gender is a social construct" was not created by a radical feminist.

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon which consists of women being brainwashed into doing what men want but thinking they are the ones in control. These are the feminists that are pro-trans. Notice that these feminists, that support men's wishes, are a lot more successful than radical feminists. We hear about MTF but seldom FTM.

But women must always be to blame for men's actions in a society controlled by men...

This is so off topic but this is Shoe 0n head exactly. Bitch gets off on being owned by men yet somehow we are supposed to listen to her takes on feminism lol, does the cringe anti feminist grift but rabidly supports even worse antics from troons.

Btw, plenty of legit criticisms of feminism. Just saying it’s funny

 

[ChadBrazilian]

What’s sad about current liberal feminism is that they think selling asshole pics for $7 won’t ruin their life, but saying trannies are men will.

As a conservative, I feel more respect towards RadFems than libFems. RadFems have based opinions on porn, degeneracy and know that birth control and hookup culture will fuck up their mind and body. Shame that their vision of men is normally to fucked to have a normal life.

Meanwhile, libFems represent that really dumb twitter hoe. The type girl of below average IQ and high agreeableness that just 'copy and paste' any stupid take in some article on Teen Vogue, Pink News or Cosmopolitan that week. They are the proof that mass marketing works; and that women are normally the biggest victims of it. They are the ones who carry these conflicting beliefs simultaneously.

 

[Irrelevant]

Radical feminism (radical meaning from the root) has never supported this. The biggest anti-trans movement has always been radical feminism. "Gender is a social construct" was not created by a radical feminist.

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon which consists of women being brainwashed into doing what men want but thinking they are the ones in control. These are the feminists that are pro-trans. Notice that these feminists, that support men's wishes, are a lot more successful than radical feminists. We hear about MTF but seldom FTM.

But women must always be to blame for men's actions in a society controlled by men...

My first point was that feminists "won't accept ANY responsibility".

You then go all #NotAllFeminists or No True Feminist and any feminists left standing are dismissed as having been "brainwashed" by men.

You managed to go well over the top when you didn't need to.

 

[ChadBrazilian]

My original point that feminists "won't accept ANY responsibility".

You then go all #NotAllFeminists or No True Feminist and any feminists left standing are dismissed as having been "brainwashed" by men.

You managed to go well over the top when you didn't need to.

I forgot what point I was going to make. fuck.

 

[Gone Ham]

Liberals (classical liberal, Whigs, etc) were one of the big parties during the empire along with the Tories. They got killed off in the 1970's by Labour.

Labour were super anti-EU back in the day (as were most left wing parties) and some MPs split off and formed the Social Democratic Party which never went anywhere.

The Liberals and Social Democrats joined together to become the Lib Dems. For a long time they were the holier than thou third party choice who could say stuff to please everyone because they'd never be in power.

Sometimes they would be based as their Liberal history would attract classical liberals. Some people really want a classical Liberal/Whig party to come back and replace socialist Labour.

They accidentally got in power with the Tory coalition in 2010 and then lost all their support because of course they couldn't please everyone.

Since then they've been a typical whacky minor party with a revolving door of leaders.

Tony Blair is the future of England

 

[keke]

Labour’s left-leaning, while the Lib Dems are woke centrism personified — think MovieBlob without all the vitriol and eugenics.

That’s not as true anymore. Labour tried to get a socialist elected last GE and he gave his pronouns. Also they HEAVILY are pushing the troon, BLM, intersectional feminism etc shit and they’re choosing “POC” politicians who shamelessly do the anti-white thing. They realised the working class vote was unreliable so they’ve switched tactics.

Extra: the Green Party members stood up in parliament and apologised for being white. Was hilarious.

 

[Kaiser Rotbart]

In ... 'defence?' of Iran (which is the big one for it IIRC?) I'm pretty sure they do it as a punishment for being gay as an alternative for death. It could just be seen as a form of mutilation over there. It doesn't seem to be the same as Western trannyism; which seems more like predatory men using it as a way of enforcing power over others.

No. Actually, nobody knows why Iran recognized transgender identities after the Islamic Revolution. In fact, that was a religious call made by the Ayatollah (despite him not actually being the highest Shi'ite cleric, but Iran always had a bit of a problem in that regard, as the nominally highest Shi'ite clerics are all seated in Iraq...), and since Iran was now an "Islamic Republic", religion became politics. But nobody knows what the Ayatollah's theological reasoning was, and rumours are that a MTF had somehow gotten his ear. So, no, this was absolutely not meant as a punishment. Even in case of homosexuals, it's more a "get out of jail" card, since the usual punishment, and the one that is actually implemented if they refuse to identify as female, is the death penalty. Still kinda fucked up, though.

Radical feminism (radical meaning from the root) has never supported this. The biggest anti-trans movement has always been radical feminism. "Gender is a social construct" was not created by a radical feminist.

Liberal feminism is a new phenomenon which consists of women being brainwashed into doing what men want but thinking they are the ones in control. These are the feminists that are pro-trans. Notice that these feminists, that support men's wishes, are a lot more successful than radical feminists. We hear about MTF but seldom FTM.

But women must always be to blame for men's actions in a society controlled by men...

I'm pretty sure the divide between radical and liberal feminism has always existed. Trans-exclusivity or -inclusivity aside, the core difference as I have always understood is that liberal feminism strives to gives women equal rights and treatment within the existing system, whereas radical feminism sees the whole system and societal structure as inherently made by men and for men, and hence in need of a general revision. In that sense, liberal feminism is actually saner (IMO). And the issue of trans-exclusivity goes pretty much parallel to radical/liberal feminism - Rowling, for example, is not actually a TERF, as she is pretty much a trans-exclusive liberal feminist (her whole world view is dripping with establishment liberalism). I think the reason trans-exclusivity is so much stronger on the radical feminist side is because radical feminists have a history of, uh, mythologizing womanhood, I guess you could say. Which is pretty wacky in its own way, but has proven to be an effective defence against trans ideology.

Girls are entering puberty earlier. Paywalled article but here’s the chart:
View attachment 2023247

And while the reason is unknown, the explanation seen as most likely by more experts is more hormones in the environment, due such things as the pill. It's a bit of a concerning trend in its own right.

what's the difference between the lib dems and labor again?
I'm not extremely familiar with uk politics.

Basically, Labour is centre-left (and yes, centre-left, with a clear centrist and left wing), the Tories (Conservatives) are centre-right, and the LiBDems are "liberals" in the classical sense, i.e. something akin to libertarians - pro-social rights but also pro-business deregulation etc. But really, in the last twenty years mostly the latter. They had no problem propping up Cameron's Tory government, notably. And the Greens are some sort of ever shifting lunacy.

That’s not as true anymore. Labour tried to get a socialist elected last GE and he gave his pronouns. Also they HEAVILY are pushing the troon, BLM, intersectional feminism etc shit and they’re choosing “POC” politicians who shamelessly do the anti-white thing. They realised the working class vote was unreliable so they’ve switched tactics.

Extra: the Green Party members stood up in parliament and apologised for being white. Was hilarious.

Corbyn was extremely leftwing, but after his failure at the election, the centrist wing very firmly is in control of Labour again. It's not so much "not as true anymore", but a tug-of-war between the two wings, so it's sometimes the one way, sometimes the other.

 

[Mother puss bucket]

Radfems sure weren’t to blame. I am close to a lot, and they are all pretty based - happily shacked up with decent men or women, or happily single, conscious that “gender” is in fact a social construct (an ideology to tell both sexes how they *must* behave and dress), and protective of children.

Something that constantly surprises me on this site is how many of you use the word “gender” when what you really mean is sex. Sex isn’t a social construct and never will be - it’s a reality. Gender is of course a social construct, because a kid playing with any kind of toy or wearing any kind of clothing is, and always will remain, the sex they are.

Don't bitch you removed all the road markings/signs and then people are driving down the wrong side of the road. Deconstructing basic functional paths for people to take during times of maximum confusing about their bodies is how you create mentally ill men questioning if they're women. Man acts like man, woman acts like woman and we have a family. Man acts like man, man acts like woman and oops you have a pair of groomers looking for teenage boys to prey on. Either you support a family unit able to produce children or you disconnect sex from children and create a death spiral. There will always be weirdos who don't fit the mold, they go off and do their own thing instead of forcing that abnormality into a main stream ideology. If you're a bull dyke who wants to drive a truck or a computer nerd who jerks it to anime girls then you can do that without promoting an ideology hostile to functional generational society. Dismantling the core of a society because a very small minority don't fit the mold is selfish and self destructive.

I still love how all (or rather, none) of these stunning and brave redditors going on their little strikes have the balls to use this dude's real name. Like that imgur comment section kept calling this creep "Aimee" and "She."

Since there are probably redditors reading this thread, I'll say this:

You are not obligated to play pretend with these guys online or in real life. You're especially not obligated to play pretend with pedophiles and their supporters.

I even made this post with reddit spacing so they can understand!

His name isn't well known is it? Is his real name censored on reddit or is it just his tranny name? Are there any replacement reddit style websites at the moment? This could kill Reddit the same way Digg died over night.

And while the reason is unknown, the explanation seen as most likely by more experts is more hormones in the environment, due such things as the pill. It's a bit of a concerning trend in its own right.

There has been studies done on this and it's not just hormones. It's also the lack of men in the household. Children who lack masculine influences and male figures enter puberty faster. It's believed to be an adaption in birth rates to replace protectors and hunters as quickly as possible. If your men get fucked your tribe is fucked. It shifts sex birth rates too.

Basically, Labour is centre-left (and yes, centre-left, with a clear centrist and left wing), the Tories (Conservatives) are centre-right, and the LiBDems are "liberals" in the classical sense, i.e. something akin to libertarians - pro-social rights but also pro-business deregulation etc. But really, in the last twenty years mostly the latter. They had no problem propping up Cameron's Tory government, notably. And the Greens are some sort of ever shifting lunacy.

Are you on crack? None of these parties are centrist left alone center-right. The tories constantly push social justice stuff out. There isn't any center parties in the UK and any who tried to be would be done for hate speech when they opposed mass immigration.

 

[Kaiser Rotbart]

Man acts like man, woman acts like woman and we have a family.

Anything a man does is acting like a man by definition. Unless you do want to go the transgender ideology way, where male and female don't actually have anything to do with the body anymore. That is in fact the absolutely same bullshit. You're a man if you have a dick and XY chromosomes. Neither "acting" nor "identity" has anything to do with it. And consequently, "acting like a man" is a nonsense concept.

Demographic concerns are valid, of course, but considering how reactionary types usually also oppose any natalist policies that are not about forcing everyone into the core family model, like daycare infrstructure etc., despite that actually having a positive effect on birthrates, I'm really not sure how honest that concern is.

Are you on crack? None of these parties are centrist left alone center-right. The tories constantly push social justice stuff out. There isn't any center parties in the UK and any who tried to be would be done for hate speech when they opposed mass immigration.

A definition by which 90% of the existing system is "leftwing" is insane and not up for purpose. I have seen much the reverse on the left side, where people claim that Labour can't be counted as leftwing because they're still pro-capitalism, and where they would classify 90% of the existing system as "rightwing". Neither really makes sense or serves as a good classification - which is the purpose of saying "left" or "right". Just accept that you are by modern standards a far-rightist and move on.

 

[Mother puss bucket]

Basically, Labour is centre-left (and yes, centre-left, with a clear centrist and left wing), the Tories (Conservatives) are centre-right, and the LiBDems are "liberals" in the classical sense, i.e. something akin to libertarians - pro-social rights but also pro-business deregulation etc. But really, in the last twenty years mostly the latter. They had no problem propping up Cameron's Tory government, notably. And the Greens are some sort of ever shifting lunacy.

The green party isn't exceptional any more. They are the same lunacy as every other party. They all talk the same bollocks and try to dress it up in different ways.

An example of the "right wing" political party in the UK : https://reclaimthenet.org/conservative-councillor-suspended-for-post-dressed-as-a-woman/

 

[Kaiser Rotbart]

The green party isn't exceptional any more. They are the same lunacy as every other party. They all talk the same bollocks and try to dress it up in different ways.

Well, I will agree they are, unfortunately, the logical end point of current cultural and social developments, and all other parties are simply still more recalcitrant.

Though I think there is one big difference: Right now, the establishment is using wokeness to distract us from how they're fucking us all over. Stuff like Big Tech stamping down on right-wing stuff is just the most obvious, but by no means only symptom of it. So most parties are woke to varying degrees, but also still pro-financial establishment to varying degrees. The Greens, OTOH, are too woke to actually get anything done, but are, in theory, anti-capital. Which is why they will never amount to much. The establishment won't let that come to pass (unless they sell out on that front like the German Greens have done).

 

[Mother puss bucket]

They're more similar than different.

Both leftist/Marxist authoritarian. Both big on high taxes and welfare spending. There are no actual liberals, democrats, or labourers involved.

The support base for both parties is mostly metropolitan.

Lib Dems have an abnormally high number of perverts, Labour have a lot of rioters and muslims, but the two parties could merge and nobody would see any real difference in policies.

Labour and the SNP are interesting to compare and worth throwing in to the discussion. SNP sit between labour's immense amount of corruption and hatred for their own people and green parties constant rabble rousing over global warming (what's it called this week?

Going from "right" to Left
BNP - Old fart nationalists who constantly back stabbed and tore themselves down despite having popular support (not treated worse than Trump in the media). Dead now.
UKIP - Larping party who wish they were the lib dems after they got some protest votes. Dead now unless you include ecelebs being put on ballots.
Conservatives - Pro-tranny, pro-feminism, bunch of pedophiles with a few having old money to back them up. Considered better than the others despite them all being the same bastards in every party
Labour - Ex working class party which for some reason still gets votes by the dumber members of the working class. They regularly find a gorilla and put them on the ballots to signal how progressive they are. Literally Kill whitey coming from many of them
Lib Dems - Student party for kids rebelling against their conservative parents. More woke than labour but more likely to have a White or Asian over a nignog due to being the student party (Think Bernie if you're American)
SNP - Scotlands protest vote against labour turning their back on the working class. Who just gave full voting rights to every form of immigrant this week. Tied with greens on wokeness but Scotland vote for them because they're not labour and not English.
Green party - Very slightly more woke than Labour but mostly harping on about climate change bollocks. Full of feminists who are straight up misandrist daily but everyone else is so woke no one pushes back against it. They are the "white feminist" party to put it in internet lingo.

All a bunch of royal cunts that go to the same parties, have the same ideas and play silly fuckers on TV while doing everything they can to fuck over the natives. Any one who tries to tell you there's a big difference is a nonce, there is absolutely no difference and any all of them have this strange back room lobby called "the friends of Israel" who give them an immense amount of funding.

Labour Friends of Israel

Labour Friends of Israel

www.lfi.org.uk

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/ukip-friends-israel-hold-largest-event-westminster-reception/ (Doesn't have a website)

Home

cfoi.co.uk

https://ldfi.org.uk/the-committee/

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/new-pro-israel-group-gets-stall-at-snp-conference/ (They're moving into the SNP now...)