Community Detox / Alternative medicine / Homeopathy / Woo / CAM Scammers & Cows - The crazies who make $ off hating science, and the fools who love them

multiverse

out of office 2/24 -
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Many thanks to @summerandtempest and @Nehelenia for the collaboration on this thread!

BACKGROUND

The history of alternative medicine scams is too long for a single OP: there have been conmen selling miracle cures for as long as stupid people have been desperate for cure-alls and life answers. It’s had to tell which side is more lulzy, the “good doctors” or “healers” who sell the cures, or the seekers who flit from guru to guru, always searching for “good health”. If I went back to academia, I could probably make a PhD out of this subject.


“Snake oil sales” became synonymous with “scammer” by the mid-1800s in ‘Murrica, where enterprising salespersons developed “patent medicines” for all manner of woes, from “female complaints” to cancer to every ache, pain, or worry one might have. The Alternative Medicine fads of the 19th century included vegetarianism, lots of enemas, teetotaling, doctors with crazy vibrators, and other useless stuff all the way through more powerful weapons like laudanum (i.e. a morphine and booze syrup, you know, for headaches) and cocaine (to fix up your sinuses, sonny!)


The 1950s and 60s saw a revival of the heath fads that swept the nation a century prior, as many men returned from damaging wars with no coping skills, and their wives suffered from a stifling social culture that expected them to have no needs beyond “put on your makeup and make me dinner and a martini by 5 pm”. This led to the rise of various social movements, from an interest in Eastern medicine and religions, the spread of psychology as a practice, and even things like Scientology, as a generation of “seekers” desperately wanted answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything.


WHAT THE FUCK IS “WOO”?

The term “woo”, short for “woo-woo”, came into being in the 1990s, more commonly known today as Alternative Medicine. RationalWiki did a great summary of what may be considered “woo”, so I’ll let them take for the short version:

Woo generally contains most of the following characteristics:

1. Anecdotal evidence: Prefers to use testimonials over actual studies. (Much less likely to go wrong.)

2. Panacea: Is a simple idea that purports to be the one answer to many problems (often including many diseases).

3. Pseudoscience: Has a "scientific-sounding" reason for how it works, but little to no actual science behind it; especially:

1. Science woo: Uses words that sound scientific but make no sense in their context, such as "quantum".

2. Quote-mined studies that, if bent properly, appear to support the woo.

3. Appeal to authority: Claims that a scientific authority supports the woo; this is usually combined with a quote mine.

4. Studies from different, unrelated fields.

5. Disdain for objective, randomized experimental controls, especially double-blind testing (which is kind of what makes epidemiology actually, y'know, work. And maybe one or two other obscure corners of the field of scientific endeavor...)

4. A supernatural and/or paranormal involvement; failing that, the preternatural.

5. Persecution complex: Claims to be persecuted, usually perpetrated by the government, "Big Pharma", or the entire worldwide scientific community (see Galileo gambit). Usually accompanied by a claim that the public and/or scientists are blind to the discovery, despite attempts to alert them.

6. A hypothesis that remains virtually unchanged for years or decades, despite changes in the evidence for the woo. This is sometimes presented as a strength.

7. And, almost always, a willingness to share the woo-peddlers' precious knowledge/insight/revelation... for a price. And repeatedly. (Because if it didn't take the first time around then the victims didn't believe sincerely enough.)

Between the 1990s and today, the internet connected more suckers born every minute with the scammers who are happy to help them. This has led to a generation of mothers who believe they know more than any doctor about vaccines because “MOMMA BEAR INTUTITION” > double blind studies, MLM essential oil companies, herbalists, detoxers, and a whole host of ways to fuck up your body in the name of “health”.


Another phrase commonly used to describe woo and quackery is the acronym CAM: Complementary and Alternative Medicine, or CAM, is an umbrella term for any and all approaches to treating disease that are not accepted by mainstream or allopathic medicine (because they’re not evidence-based). This includes naturopathy/homeopathy, acupuncture, energy healing or energy medicine, reiki, chiropractic, osteopathic manipulation technique, and more. CAM is separate from, but related to, the term “integrative medicine,” which is the practice of combining, or integrating, CAM with “conventional” medicine. These terms were created to make CAM seem like a legitimate scientific approach, which it is not. But it’s damn good marketing. It's convinced a lot of people to buy into CAM and convinced academic medical centers like the Cleveland Clinic (which has a Center for Functional Medicine, functional medicine being another name for CAM), state governments, and the VA to provide funding for the research and study of CAM practices. There is currently a board certification in integrative medicine, and too many well-regarded medical schools have implemented integrative medicine training as part of their curricula for medical students and residents.


There's a lot to be said about the U.S. supplement industry in general, in fact; namely, that it is only very loosely regulated and supplements do not require pre-market review and approval by the FDA. In theory, they need to demonstrate that they are at least safe and not misleading, but they're still effectively operating on an honor system.


QUESTIONABLE QUACKS
It is especially concerning when physicians, who have been presented with every opportunity in medical school to learn how to think critically about science, turn into woo-pushing quacks themselves. Physicians have a responsibility to promote health, to treat disease where they find it, and to guide their patients to make decisions that will protect their health, and to do the opposite—knowingly—is egregious. And so, I present to you a few of the most loony, out-there, woo-loving physicians I know of.

1. Kelly Brogan, MD
Website | Facebook | Personal Facebook | Twitter | Instagram
Kelly Brogan is a “holistic women’s health psychiatrist” who does not prescribe drugs (because she thinks taking any pill for anything is un-feminist, whether it’s an antidepressant, antibiotic, birth control, or Tylenol).
brogan1.jpg

She has been featured on GOOP, that bastion of women’s health empowerment and knowledge, as a panelist at the In GOOP Health Summit. She has a private practice in New York City, where she charges thousands of dollars per appointment for giving women dangerous advice to get off of all their psych meds and replace them with a vegan, gluten-free diet, supplements, and coffee enemas. Yes, coffee enemas. She credits this idea to her late mentor, Nick Gonzalez, MD, another quack who believed that a specific diet and lots of coffee enemas could be more effective in curing cancer than chemo.
Her screening questionnaire is conveniently designed to rule out anyone who might actually need medication for anything.
kb appointment.png

Kelly also has an online scam course called Vital Mind Reset available for purchase, which I'm assuming is how she makes far more money than she could from her private practice. A scary amount of people have bought into this stuff. She has also written a book available on Amazon and at least one e-book pushing fringe conspiracy beliefs, the subject of which I will now address.

It seems like every woo-promoter has one “pet” woo that they love most, their “One Woo to Rule Them All.” But something that also seems to be a pattern among these people is that they can't just stick with one crazy belief. They have to go full-speed down the rabbit-hole.

Perhaps the most interesting (and abhorrent) thing about Kelly is her willingness to discard any good practices when it comes to reading scientific literature, and instead embrace batshit conspiracy theories. She believes that vaccines are dangerous and are meant to make us complicit in Big Pharma's mission to fill us up with toxins. She wrote an article stating that the link between HIV and AIDS is "an assumption" and that Big Pharma is using fear to market antiretrovirals to pregnant women. And she is a believer in wishful thinking--that if you tell yourself that "you got this," and can "see yourself better," you can make your depression, bipolar dis--oh wait, she doesn't recognize those as diseases. But if you believe enough and follow her protocal, you can make them go away!

Kelly even responds to trolls, although she thinks they're all bots or that it's an astroturfing campaign, because no real person could actually disagree with her woke anti-Pharma empowered female wisdom, y'all. But she also appreciates her haydurz and critics for the exposure they give her.
Honestly, I think this bitch might deserve her own thread.


2. Nicholas Gonzalez, MD
Website: "The Gonzalez Foundation"
The late Nicholas Gonzalez, Kelly Brogan's mentor and "spiritual father" was one of the foremost dangers to the public health pioneers in "alternative cancer treatment." His brand of woo involved claiming that he could treat and cure cancer, including advanced and terminal cancers, especially pancreatic cancer, with a detox protocol. This protocol, which is described on his website, includes an organic diet that is "individualized for the patient," "pancreas product" (pancreatic enzymes made from pig pancreas) up to 45 grams/day, supplements--sometimes up to 175 pills a day--and of course, coffee enemas to "enhance liver function" and "flush out the cancer-causing toxins." Dr. Nick also did hair analysis, a useless procedure, to determine things like "heavy metal toxicity" and "unique biochemical patterns" which would tell him about the patient's health status. While Gonzalez claimed spectacular miracle cure rates far greater than anything conventional medicine could offer, a study (funded by the NCI!) proved that patients on the protocol had worse outcomes than treated patients. Unfortunately, many people did and continue to buy into the promises of false hope sold by slick people like Dr. Nick.


3. Christiane Northrup, MD
Website | Facebook page | Facebook (personal) | Twitter
Christiane Northrup is another quacky “women’s health expert” (because apparently all these quacks think that women are easy prey). Northrup is an OB/GYN who believes astrology, tarot cards, energy medicine and spiritual healing all have a place in the doctor’s office, that uncomfortable physical sensations are really just unmet emotional needs, and that uterine fibroids are a result of not being able to express creativity. She is not as much of a lolcow as Kelly Brogan is but still endorses some fucked-up beliefs and is also out to scam women into buying her books and online courses. She, like all woo-peddling physicians, is a danger to the public health. Especially she has been given a platform on Oprah many times, including one notable time where she taught the women in the audience how to direct qi (as in, the mystical Chinese energy source) to their vaginas for better orgasms and increased arousal. I really wish the video of this was still around somewhere, but no luck so far.


Some choice quotes...
On divorce:
"My divorce culminated during what is astrologically known as my Chiron return … simultaneously I had been under the influence of an astrological configuration known as a yod … the purpose of this was to move me out of my old life …"

On vaccines:
"Getting your child or yourself immunized is a culturally agreed-upon ritual, designed to shore up your first chakra. The first chakra, or first emotional center, of your body controls your bones, joints, bone marrow, blood, and immune system."

On uterine fibroids:
"Fibroid tumors represent our creativity that has never been birthed. Fibroids may also result when we are flowing life energy into dead end jobs or relationships we have outgrown. Fibroids are often associated with conflicts about creativity, reproduction, and relationships.

If you have fibroids, ask yourself the following questions: What are the creations within me that I want to put out in the world before I’m no longer here? If anything at all were possible, what would my life look like? If I had six months to live, what relationships would I release from my life immediately? What relationships would I give more of my time and attention to? What relationships truly feed and nourish me? Which ones drain my energy? Write your answers in a journal. Discuss them with supportive friends. Deep within you, you have all the answers you need. You just need to be open to hearing them."

On thyroid issues:
"In many women, thyroid dysfunction develops because of an energy blockage in the throat region, the result of a lifetime of “swallowing” words she is aching to say."

Aside from all this, Northrup is also an anti-vaxxer, germ theory denialist (repeating the myth that Pasteur recanted on his deathbed), and has made a lot of money selling useless and potentially dangerous hormones to women, as well as many books and online webinar-type "courses."

friends.png

FUCKED UP COMMUNITIES
Anti-vaxxers – look up any group that contains the phrase “vaccine injury” and there you’ll find stupidity

Colloidal Silver spergs – this is just one group of thousands, these people think colloidal silver will solve every problem on earth

AIDS denialists – most of them are dead now for obvious reasons, including the entire staff of the now defunct AIDS denialist magazine, Continuum

Parents of children with autism who give them bleach enemas – because of course putting bleach in a kid’s ass – sorry, miracle mineral solution, will cure them of spergery.

Extended pregnancy – crazy women who know more than doctors because I’m A MOM HELLO and refuse to have their labor induced

Followers of ‘The Medical Medium’ – a man who is visited by a Christian ghost receives magical food cures for every ill from the future. No, really.

“Dr.” Robert Morse – a man who will charge you thousands to starve to death for your health; can’t sell his “herbs” legally so he’s made a super sekrit membership club to avoid the FDA and liability. The dude who killed Steve Jobs.
 
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Postal Dude

Killing is my business... and business is good!
kiwifarms.net
About fucking time we had this thread! Solid job.

If there's one solace in this, it's that homeopathy is arguably the biggest cure for homeopathy. Still, I shudder to imagine how "treatments" like these raw water cures, "dilutions" of purported miracle substances like duck liver and quartz, and other lunacy will develop with the new generation. That's not even going into the more psychotic parts of homeopathy, like the this classic thread about the Church of Genesis II, which literally advocates drinking bleach to cure autism or Jillian Burke-Epperly, who encourages her Facebook cult to drink enough saltwater to render you hypernatremic and take pictures of their own shit documenting the "parasites" they supposedly expelled. Delusional parasitosis is a very common theme in these communities.

And to cap it all off, here's an amusing anecdote from DocBastard about a loony who bought into this shit. These people can't just keep their woo to themselves, can they? We'd have far less content if they did.
http://www.docbastard.net/2017/08/surreal.html
DocBastard said:
Those of you who are regulars here or follow me on Twitter know my feelings on pseudoscience (otherwise known as "bullshit"). Depending on the day, my opinion wavers somewhere between "Pseudoscience is potentially dangerous nonsense" and "What the fuck are you idiots thinking". Fortunately I've had very few interactions with pseudoscientific nonsense in my professional career, though several years ago I did have one woman ask me about Dr. Oz and an "olive oil flush" for gallstones. Since I've been ranting and raving about various bullshit modalities like chiropractic, homeopathy, and acupuncture, I've often wondered how long it would be until my next encounter.

Wonder no more.

I was asked to see Barbara (not her real name™) late one evening for what sounded like typical acute cholecystitis - several days of right upper quadrant abdominal pain, fever, nausea, and vomiting. Before going in to examine her I looked at her abdominal ultrasound, which showed multiple large stones in her gall bladder along with thickening of her gall bladder wall and inflammation surrounding the gall bladder itself. Checking her bloodwork, her liver function tests were all normal (so no sign of a biliary tract obstruction - good), and her white blood cell count was mildly elevated as would be expected. It seemed like a slam dunk, and it was.

Mostly.

When I entered Barbara's room, she had a friend with her, which is certainly not unusual. I examined her carefully, and the only abnormality was fairly severe tenderness in her right upper abdomen, typical of someone with a gall bladder infection. I explained the treatment protocol, which would be giving her IV antibiotics overnight followed by a laparoscopic surgery the following morning to remove her infected gall bladder. I went through my prepared speech which I've given hundreds of times, including the risks, benefits, and alternatives. And as usual I ended with my normal conclusion: "Do you have any questions?"

It was one of the few times I've regretted it.

Barbara whipped out a little notepad with myriad hand-written notes, and I was immediately bombarded with approximately 1,058 questions, everything from the mundane ("How long will I be out of work?") to the somewhat-strange-but-still-almost-normal ("What anaesthetic agent will I be given?") to the completely bizarre ("What are your instruments made of?").

Then she hit me with one that was so far out in left field it may as well have come from a different country:

"Can I keep my gall bladder?"

Um. Uhhh.

I had to explain to her that I was obligated to give the gall bladder to the pathologist, who would cut it into thin slices and make sure she didn't have something wacky like gall bladder cancer, so, um, no, you can't keep your disgusting infected gall bladder. I offered her the option to keep one of her stones instead, which she readily accepted.

And then her friend started asking questions. Approximately 792 more.

Sigh.

After what seemed like two hours (but was probably closer to 8 minutes), I finally made my way out of her room, where her nurse caught my eye. She rolled her eyes and smirked in a plainly obvious "Oh, she got you too?" look. I merely smiled back weakly, feeling lucky to have escaped.

The following morning I went to see Barbara, and she still looked uncomfortable. Regardless, she told me she was ready for surgery, which was scheduled for later that afternoon. I went back to my office to see patients for a few hours, returning to the hospital about 30 minutes before her operation was due to begin. I figured she would be in the pre-op area, which she was. What I didn't figure was who would be with her.

The only way I could properly describe Barbara's visitor would be to say that she looked like she stepped directly out of 1967 into a time machine, landing in my hospital in 2017. She could have easily passed as someone who went to a costume party dressed as a hippie and then forgot to remove the costume, so she simply continued living as a hippie. She had one hand on Barbara's right shoulder and another on her back, and it looked like she was giving her some kind of weird massage.

"Oh, hi Dr. Bastard," Barbara smiled. "This is Rena (not her real name™), my reiki master."

Your . . . your what?

I had no idea how to reply, and the anaesthesiologist could sense the palpable awkwardness growing by the second. He gave me a knowing look, rolled his eyes, and clearly trying to break the tension said, "Yeah, I missed my last two reiki appointments."

Heh, good one.

"I KNOW, ISN'T IT AMAZING?" Rena replied with a broad smile, obviously missing the obvious sarcasm, which was obviously obvious. Barbara smiled too, missing the fact that now both the anaesthesiologist and I were staring at each other, our mouths agape.

It's difficult to render me speechless.

In case you aren't aware of what reiki is, it's bullshit. It's pure, unadulterated bullshit. Here, I'll give you the rundown: take prayer, add running your hands over someone to transfer energy to them, and you have bullshit. I mean reiki. No, I was right the first time. Bullshit.

I had never seen reiki actually practiced in real life, so I watched agog as Rena ran her hands over Barbara's right shoulder, muttering encouraging words (I guess) and supposedly transferring some universal life force into her. This was happening as her very modern IV antibiotic was running through a very modern plastic tube into her very physical vein.

I couldn't think of anything else to say, so I quickly signed my paperwork, muttered something about changing into scrubs, and walked out. The anaesthesiologist looked jealous.

Barbara's surgery was moderately difficult though uncomplicated. Her gall bladder was quite inflamed, but it was no different than most any other case of acute cholecystitis I've handled through the years. She went home the following day feeling somewhat better, but still in some pain. My typical gall bladder patients go home the same day as surgery and are back to their usual activities within a day or two, relying on ibuprofen (if anything) for pain. Barbara, on the other hand, emailed me several times a day over the next few days to describe the progression of her pain, nausea, appetite, temperature, and anything else she managed to quantify. She finally started feeling better just over a week later, to her (and my inbox's) great relief. She came for her follow-up visit two weeks after surgery, Rena tagging along. Of course.

With that goddamned notepad. Of course.

After conducting my exam (everything looked absolutely fine), I dutifully answered all of her remaining questions, including "When can I start juicing again?". Barbara and Rena both profusely thanked me for my patience and warm bedside manner, and they left looking quite satisfied. If they only knew what I had really been thinking.

Now I realise that this is only an N of 1 and anecdotes are not data, but it sure seems to me that Rena's energy transfer didn't fucking work. Of course it's possible Barbara's surgery would have been even more difficult, and her recovery much more protracted, if she hadn't had the reiki treatment done. Right?

Ha! No.
 

Viridian

Phthalo green is a basic bitch.
kiwifarms.net
Oooh, yes, we needed this thread. 'Alternative medicine' scammers are a particular focus of my personal hatred. I've had to do a lot of research on my own in the past to try to steer family and friends away from pseudoscience that might kill them.

One of my old standby sites for looking into CAM scammers is Quackwatch. The website has been around for decades now and it has a lot of articles and historical information on the 'careers' of various modern snake oil peddlers. It's really useful for anyone who wants to see how far back some of these insane claims go.
 

Barbarella

Guards! To the Mathmos with this winged fruitcake.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
David Gorsky (aka Orac) couldn't have written this OP better. He is a cancer doctor serious against fighting woo, and you can read him and others at Science Blogs.

Sadly, I run into a lot of these fakers. Now I know where’re to put them.
 

melty

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I hate alt medicine. I have personal reasons to be so salty, but all the research I've done on it just reaffirms my anger anyway. One of my friends is now into it, much to my chagrin.
My mom is a huge fan of CAM. If there is absolutely no scientific evidence some kind of treatment works she is on it like flies on shit.
One interesting "treatment" that thankfully does not seem very popular is Nabudrapod's allergy elimination technique, or NAET. NAET treats allergies. How do you diagnose these allergies? Oh that's easy, you see there are these little vials with some small amount of the allergen in them. You hold these vials and then hold your other arm straight out. The doctor then pushes down on your outstretched arm. If your arm seems weak by the doctor's judgement, you have an allergy to what is in the vials!
What if you're just a weak person and your arm is always weak? What if you are a dog that might have allergies and you can't hold your dog arm straight out for the doctor to push on it? That is simple, someone else can be your proxy and the doctor pushes down on their arm as long as they are touching you and you (or your paw, if you are a dog) are touching the allergy vials. Yes my mom got the dog allergy tested this way.
What if the doctor does not have a premade vial of what you suspect you are allergic to? Thats actually important because you can be allergic to one specific toy, or air in one specific place, or even OTHER PEOPLE. Yes this fucking NAET allergy doctor once told my family that we were allergic to each other, and needed treatment for it. My mom would also leave out empty jars in places such as my elementary school to collect air to bring in for treatments.

Side note: this practice is referred to as "applied kinesiology." Do not be fooled, it simply is as re.tarded as I have said.

Now that you know you have an allergy - and it's not just one, it's hundreds that you NEVER knew about, definitely not a scheme to get more money out of you - you treat it by holding the vial or whatever other stupid piece of bullshit you were tested for, while the doctor gives you acupuncture, acupressure, or something I forget the name of that involves shining a red laser light at the acupuncture points. You sit in silence for about 45 minutes after that.
Then, you need to avoid the allergen for the next 24-36 hours. This often involves a restrictive diet, even if the "allergy" you were "treated" for isn't actually in the food, for some reason. There were a couple of times I was on a cabbage-and-water diet for 48 hours. For many allergies my mom just pulled me out of school multiple times a month because it was easier than going to school with an allergy mask and not being able to eat food there.
After, you go back to the allergy doctor and get tested by pushing on your arm again. Sometimes the treatment fails. By the way, I would often come into contact into whatever supposed allergen, from either being careless or on purpose, and the treatment would still work. Other times it would mysteriously fail for no reason and I'd get accused of touching/eating the thing.

How was this technique discovered? From wikipedia:
Devi Nambudripad was a student chiropractor and acupuncturist at the time she developed NAET. Whilst experiencing a reaction to eating carrots she attempted to overcome the reaction through a self-administered acupuncture treatment. After the treatment the reaction to eating carrots did not return. At the time of the acupuncture treatment, a remnant of carrot was on her skin, and Nambudripad concluded from this that the presence of a minute quantity of carrot during the acupuncture treatment was the key to the treatment. She then formulated a hypothesis that contact with a small amount of an allergen during an acupuncture or acupressure session can remove reactions to food and other substances.
The way my parents told this story, as told by their "doctor", was even more exceptional. Nambudripad was allergic to everything except two things, but for some mysteriously reason really broke down one day and had to eat some carrots. When she had the reaction, she gave herself acupuncture to feel better, and accidentally touched the carrots that were next to her where she was lying down for acupuncture. Then, when she was done, she tried the carrots again FOR SOME REASON and didn't have the reaction. As a kid, I knew this story was bullshit. And who goes through all that for carrots? Maybe if it were for churros or something it would be more plausible.

Here is a "study" of NAET: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556663/
This really confused me because it looks like a legit publication. What's the deal? Oh, it's only covering one case of a 3 year old girl.. scroll.. scroll.. wait..
"Competing interests:
The author is the mother of the case."



WELL.

This is the most common "evidence" used by CAM practitioners, anecdata.

https://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/ is a good site, it's written by a former naturopath.
 

MysticMisty

kiwifarms.net
Colloidal Silver spergs – this is just one group of thousands, these people think colloidal silver will solve every problem on earth
My mom encountered one of these guys in some store one time. Still surprised, and very confused, she told me all about how she saw some guy that was very distinctly blue. Arms, legs, hands, head, all the same shade light blue. Having heard of this before I told her this guy must be taking colloidal silver to cure his real and imaginary health problems and that it's dyed his entire body blue. My mom is aware that scammy health bullshit is very much a thing, but had no idea it extended as far as turning into a smurf. I then started to tell her about bleach enemas and she asked me to stop.
 

toilet_rainbow

like a foof bomb exploding in your face
kiwifarms.net
Anti vaxxers are one of my biggest "berserk buttons" for a myriad of reasons, both logical and personal. Bleach enemas similarly.

A family member once bought those ear wax candles that supposedly clear or remove some shit when you light them (you just get candle wax in your ears as a result).
 

Placebo

Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!
kiwifarms.net
There's a notable person named Kate Tietje or Modern Alternative Mama.
She's a damn mess. She's a Quiverfull, her husband was fired for his comments about disabled people, she has six kids, the girl has special needs and is being forced to care for her younger siblings. She also let her child crawl around with a broken arm for a week before taking him to the hospital and she'll ban anyone who mentions it.
Her group is equally horrible. It's full of crunchy moms who unintentionally abuse their children and she'll ban anyone who tells someone to "see a doctor."
She sells really shitty home-made remedies with questionable sanitation.

https://www.facebook.com/ModernAlternativeMama/
 

BhertMern

kiwifarms.net
There's a notable person named Kate Tietje or Modern Alternative Mama.
She's a damn mess. She's a Quiverfull, her husband was fired for his comments about disabled people, she has six kids, the girl has special needs and is being forced to care for her younger siblings. She also let her child crawl around with a broken arm for a week before taking him to the hospital and she'll ban anyone who mentions it.
Her group is equally horrible. It's full of crunchy moms who unintentionally abuse their children and she'll ban anyone who tells someone to "see a doctor."
She sells really shitty home-made remedies with questionable sanitation.

https://www.facebook.com/ModernAlternativeMama/
The Quiverfull movement sure does a good job of keeping fertile fundie psycho moms from getting arrested, even when they proudly showcase their abuse on public social media.
 

Placebo

Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!
kiwifarms.net
The Quiverfull movement sure does a good job of keeping fertile fundie psycho moms from getting arrested, even when they proudly showcase their abuse on public social media.
It sucks, because CPS was called on her and her kids were briefly taken away, but she got them back.
I honestly feel sorry for her daughter. She has a disability that's not being addressed and Kate even admitted that she wishes her daughter was dead.
 

BhertMern

kiwifarms.net
It sucks, because CPS was called on her and her kids were briefly taken away, but she got them back.
I honestly feel sorry for her daughter. She has a disability that's not being addressed and Kate even admitted that she wishes her daughter was dead.
Sadly that isn't surprising. Child Protective Services rarely protects children. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (and this is probably :offtopic:), but from what I've read on the farms it seems that when children are removed from their home they are to be placed with nearby stable relatives if possible, and if that possibility isn't there then poor children go back to the parents/guardians that were the cause of them being removed in the first place. It seems like there is no hope for the children of fundies.
 

Placebo

Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!
kiwifarms.net
Sadly that isn't surprising. Child Protective Services rarely protects children. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (and this is probably :offtopic:), but from what I've read on the farms it seems that when children are removed from their home they are to be placed with nearby stable relatives if possible, and if that possibility isn't there then poor children go back to the parents/guardians that were the cause of them being removed in the first place. It seems like there is no hope for the children of fundies.
I only hope that the kids wise up and start questioning their parents. I've seen some instances where kids get vaccinated against their parents wishes and it absolutely infuriates them. It's really just narcissism on the part of the parents.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Sadly that isn't surprising. Child Protective Services rarely protects children. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (and this is probably :offtopic:), but from what I've read on the farms it seems that when children are removed from their home they are to be placed with nearby stable relatives if possible, and if that possibility isn't there then poor children go back to the parents/guardians that were the cause of them being removed in the first place. It seems like there is no hope for the children of fundies.
Family members get preference but if no family is available they go into foster care.

CPS has a very hard job and is very underfunded and understaffed. For a long time they were called baby snatchers and accused of taking children from homes without enough cause.

Their actual mandate is to keep families together and not remove children unless absolutely necessary. Even if the parents suck, taking a child from its families home and putting it among strangers is traumatic.

In the early 1970s there was a widespread problem with abuse in foster care homes. It was considered in the best interest of the child to stay with or be reunited with parents or relatives whenever possible. The judges believe, and research studies bares this out, kids do better if they can remain with or be reunited with bio family. Family does better for kids than foster care. Keep in mind foster care is done by many people for the extra money it brings. The ones doing it purely to help children are more rare.

Then add to the fact we don’t have nearly as many foster homes as needed. CPS has to give the available slots to those in the very most need and danger.
 

Sebben Crudele

Candyass extraordinaire
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Anti vaxxers are one of my biggest "berserk buttons" for a myriad of reasons, both logical and personal. Bleach enemas similarly.
Antivaxxers drive me insane too, but my personal berserk button is Bloodroot/Black salve (CONTENT WARNING: People are smearing a very damaging substance on their skin to "remove tumors" and are basically burning holes in their flesh, it's horrifying).

I actually think it would be good to link some of Holiday's videos here. He has been debunking woo for a really long time.
 

summerandtempest

kiwifarms.net
I found another quack physician (from a comment on Kelly Brogan's Instagram ofc) who practices "energy medicine," even starting an academy for spiritual medicine. She says her woo is "holistic" and "cutting edge" and that you can heal your root imbalances (which seems to be a tried and true CAM word) by tapping into your own devine power and energy.

Dr. Karen Kan used to be an instructor of clinical medicine to residents and med students at UCLA, but GAVE THAT UP to embrace pseudoscience instead. She suffered from depression, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia, but healed herself with a "spiritual epiphany."

holy shit this is wild. I really want to know what kind of switch goes off in these people's brains to make them turn like this.

Dr. Karen Kan said:
A couple of years ago I discovered that I had a particular gift for healing ghosts, demons and other entities who were interfering with my clients, and I became reconnected with my Earth Angel and Starseed Soul lineage.
 

sperginity

crack whore
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
So about the 42 weeks or more pregnancy loons-most home birth midwives are okay with it. In fact one of them had a 42 week patient with no amniotic fluid on a scan and the dumbass midwife asked other midwives on facebook what to do. One of them said stevia, lol, most said don't do anything. Unsurprisingly the kid died. Most of the home birth midwives in the USA aren't qualified to be nurses or nurses aids. The midwife isn't in jail and can't really be sued because of not carrying insurance. This trend started with Ina May Gaskin, a hippy that believes in jerking women off during labor to progress contractions. She deleted that nugget of wisdom from her later books but she did it to other gross hippies giving birth on their religious free love commune in the 60s.
 
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