Do high standards of living lead to high time preferences? Does this always destroy democracies? - I know soft times lead to soft men, but how does a nation survive them when there is so much relentless soyface today?

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Haim Arlosoroff

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I've been talking to progressives again, the free-market but a fair market people, and they keep bringing up this 'Gross National Happiness Index' Bhutan thing where politics is about maximizing average happiness in a society. Obviously I never got anywhere with them, but they didn't have anything to say back to my point about High vs Low Time Preferences. Which is kind of how some demographics spend their $1400 on stocks and other 'groups' spent it on Nikes. Someone with a high time preference focuses on his well-being in the present & someone with a low time preference focuses on his well-being in the future. Americans fuck this up with meme stocks and the 3,000+ stocks on NASDAQ being up only +0.69% Year-to-Date versus the coming inflation but in theory the 1400 put in stocks and not spent will still pay for Christmas this year if nothing else.

We just seem so bored with low time preference accomplishments that we don't even want to explore the stars anymore, we don't want struggle against anything to accomplish great things anymore. Just the leftist struggle sessions they have against the Great Internet National Socialism which always seems defined as something the average person actually agrees with. Like Trans-people in sports figuratively beating the shit out of women, and in some sports literally. Nobody is actually going to reverse Gay Marriage, and psych meds are easier to get than ever. We live in the soft times that make all men soft and weak.

Either way, my point in the arguments I've had is that happiness cannot be about self expression and gay marriage if the suicide rate has been only growing since 2000 (which surpassed Great Depression rates) and the highest rate of suicide idealization is among mized race people. People with low time preferences tend to not kill themselves, and people who act like Celebrities with their chemical dependencies and narcissism do. Firearms are hated most by suicidal people with a high time preferences who fear what they would do with them, and they put that on the 'Gun Culture' people with a low time preferences who collect and polish and shoot their guns at ranges with a strong hobby-group camaraderie that they've built up over years.

What do we do with the people with a high time preference, is there a way to prevent them during their childhood years or do we leave them be with easy access to guns to naturally sort themselves out? I think nature dealt with these people for us during earlier times in our civilization and we're just surrounded with them now because of our soft times make the soft men able to survive since the boomer era and compete socially with the low time preference people, am I wrong or is this just inevitable and what will it take before America gets to the hard times that sorts these people out for us? Is it China, SJWs collapsing America into warring pieces, or is there a softer route to dealing with these people's need for Social Democracy?

TL;DR: If the hard times which make hard men who make the soft times which make soft men who make hard times, around and around, what could the best-for-America end of this stage look like?
 

Ita Mori

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what could the best-for-America end of this stage look like?
Pretty much what you see right now.
The issue is that strong men are not being made anymore. The circle will break because men have been socially-engineered to become as soft and weak as they can for decades now.
- Processed foods high in sugar, fat, and deficient in nutrients
- Autistically short attention spans and focus. People seem to get bored and anxious if they have to wait for anything and don't have a phone around.
- Physical condition being anything but. Obesity through the roof and standards of strength, resistance, and agility lowered to a pathetic degree. We would rather buy an extra plus size for clothes than go exercise and discard poor joints & migraines and vertigo from HBP as natural issues to do with age.
- An education system that does not care for education or mental acuity. We went from rewarding the gifted to rewarding the impaired because it's only humane to give everyone the same outcome of equity.
- After decades of being told in media that being nihilistic is cool, that cynicism is a virtue, and that sarcasm is an excuse for a personality, we have not only made people depressive, but convinced them that it's all a normal part of being an adult.

It's going to be incredibly hard for enough strong men to arise out of these times in enough numbers to lift the nation up.

I think instead, we will get replaced by immigrants/illegals/DNC voters/whatever who aren't so pozzed and will look around and eventually make an attempt to restore some semblance of sanity.
America's values and beliefs will change though. Of this, do not doubt. You cannot keep old beliefs alive if the children of those who died defending those beliefs do not care for them and even actively renounce them.
You are openly inviting change, and change will come, even if you're not a part of it.
 

🌐🌐🌐

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Your point about happiness being correlated to low time preferences (I understand that's supposed to mean you prefer working towards long-term goals instead of taking pleasure in short-term "fixes" like entertainment or drugs?) is probably true but I don't really see what that has to do with social democracy. It seems like more of an individual parenting problem. In my country we had a very popular subject of study and discussion in the media of "euro-orphans". These were kids who were left either alone or with a grandparent in the country while the parents left for the EU to work, and the whole issue was that the kids left to themselves/with an elderly person only (who is easy to manipulate) leads them to grow up to terrible people. I think that's the problem - people don't have time for parenting because of how much they have to work and how little they're compensated for it.
You decry social democracy as if it's one of the causes of unhappiness or suicide, yet the happiest places on Earth by far are social democratic countries of Western Europe. Why? Because people over there make good money, have good benefits, can support families and have time for building strong family relationships, pursuing personal interests and development, travelling and other happy experiences. You should also keep in mind that countries of the so-called Nordic model are very pro-business.
The least happy places, where the most people kill themselves and the least children are being born on Earth (aside from rich East Asian countries like S.Korea or Japan) are in the epic conservative "based" countries of the East where people work their asses off, have no time to take a shit, live in constant uncertainty of their future and cannot afford a place to live let alone having children and any of that other stuff which leaves most people here angry, jaded, hateful, bitter and in many more cases than anywhere in the West - suicidal.
Do you honestly think reversing gay marriage and tranny rights is suddenly going to fix the unhappiness epidemic in the developed world?
 

tonyabbotfan553

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Strong men almost exclusively exist because they are married and have kids, they are invested in the future for their children and children's children ect.
$1400 turning into $14000 in 10 years or whatever is only appealing if you're trying to secure financial security for your family, if you're still just going to be sitting on the couch all alone in 10 years might as well spend the money on beer and ciggies now, take the edge off the lonliness you've got a long road ahead of you
 

Pixy

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We just seem so bored with low time preference accomplishments that we don't even want to explore the stars anymore, we don't want struggle against anything to accomplish great things anymore.

The concept of perpetual struggles in order to truly be able to live life is kind of a bad joke from both the left and the right. Long-term goalsetting and achievements is much more satisfactory for most people, as opposed to some sort of 'struggle' in their lives.

Finland is the world's happiest country for the fourth year in a row, as measured by the World Happiness Report, so it's not like high standards of living will automatically lead to mass societal dissatisfaction.
 

Ita Mori

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Do you honestly think reversing gay marriage and tranny rights is suddenly going to fix the unhappiness epidemic in the developed world?
Yes.
Not because I care what homosexuals do in the privacy of their own home (trannies can eat shit though), but because normalizing degeneracy and deviancy is a part of what got us into this situation.
When everything is allowed, and mental illness is "just a different way of seeing things", it doesn't take long for hedonism and corruption to follow.

yet the happiest places on Earth by far are social democratic countries of Western Europe.
You mean the ones with a small, homogenized, populace of like-minded people?
The ones who believe "Unity is strength" over "Diversity is out strength"?

Why? Because people over there make good money, have good benefits, can support families and have time for building strong family relationships, pursuing personal interests and development, travelling and other happy experiences.
So, early to mid 20th century America. Gee, we sure deviated from this starting in the 60s didn't we. Wonder why...


The least happy places, where the most people kill themselves and the least children are being born on Earth (aside from rich East Asian countries like S.Korea or Japan) are in the epic conservative "based" countries of the East where people work their asses off, have no time to take a shit, live in constant uncertainty of their future and cannot afford a place to live let alone having children and any of that other stuff which leaves most people here angry, jaded, hateful, bitter and in many more cases than anywhere in the West - suicidal.
The east?
Lol, just look at America's neighbor down south and keep looking from beyond that from Guatemala to Buenos Aires.
 

L50LasPak

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I think the root of the problem is much more fundamental. A lot of people now more than ever simply don't know what they want. They never really stop and think about things, instead chasing whatever their instincts tell them to. For every idiot who spends all of their current income on drugs and booze and wonders why they feel like their life is meaningless, there's another person breaking their back to ensure they'll retire as a millionaire who feels their life is equally pointless because they never get to stop and enjoy it.

For some strange reason, humans are terrible at actually figuring out what they want.
 

RandomTwitterGuy

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Yes.
Not because I care what homosexuals do in the privacy of their own home (trannies can eat shit though), but because normalizing degeneracy and deviancy is a part of what got us into this situation.
When everything is allowed, and mental illness is "just a different way of seeing things", it doesn't take long for hedonism and corruption to follow.


You mean the ones with a small, homogenized, populace of like-minded people?
The ones who believe "Unity is strength" over "Diversity is out strength"?


So, early to mid 20th century America. Gee, we sure deviated from this starting in the 60s didn't we. Wonder why...



The east?
Lol, just look at America's neighbor down south and keep looking from beyond that from Guatemala to Buenos Aires.
Sorry that you are a degenerate that can not stop your self from sucking tranny cock without laws to stop you.

This idea of strong and weak men is some Incel looser talk from degenerates who have never done any thing meaningful in there life.
The simple truth is that you are soft so you lash out at the perceive problems of the world.

China, Russia and every ohter nation that you faggots worship as strong are dominated by corruption and complete degeneracies, but only for the rich.
Simple truth is you are a sad faggot who wants to pull every one else down to your sad faggot level.
 

jje100010001

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Pretty much what you see right now.
The issue is that strong men are not being made anymore. The circle will break because men have been socially-engineered to become as soft and weak as they can for decades now.
- Processed foods high in sugar, fat, and deficient in nutrients
- Autistically short attention spans and focus. People seem to get bored and anxious if they have to wait for anything and don't have a phone around.
- Physical condition being anything but. Obesity through the roof and standards of strength, resistance, and agility lowered to a pathetic degree. We would rather buy an extra plus size for clothes than go exercise and discard poor joints & migraines and vertigo from HBP as natural issues to do with age.
- An education system that does not care for education or mental acuity. We went from rewarding the gifted to rewarding the impaired because it's only humane to give everyone the same outcome of equity.
- After decades of being told in media that being nihilistic is cool, that cynicism is a virtue, and that sarcasm is an excuse for a personality, we have not only made people depressive, but convinced them that it's all a normal part of being an adult.

It's going to be incredibly hard for enough strong men to arise out of these times in enough numbers to lift the nation up.

I think instead, we will get replaced by immigrants/illegals/DNC voters/whatever who aren't so pozzed and will look around and eventually make an attempt to restore some semblance of sanity.
America's values and beliefs will change though. Of this, do not doubt. You cannot keep old beliefs alive if the children of those who died defending those beliefs do not care for them and even actively renounce them.
You are openly inviting change, and change will come, even if you're not a part of it.
Strong women are not being made either. Keep in mind that even in the most egalitarian of historical societies, women were often traditionally the masters of the home, and the propagators of culture within the family unit.

There was one good tweet (I can't find now) that pointed out that for instance in Armenia, women were the ones who pridefully kept the language, religion, and culture alive at home through centuries of cultural subordination to the Ottomans (and long after the men were all speaking Turkish in their public interactions). For instance, women in charge of their households would purposefully make Armenian the only spoken language at home, even forcing servants to speak the language.

Edit- found it:
1616775466342.png

IMO, modernity today tells women that the home and family unit are outdated, unreformable, and in fact shameful, and that as long as they subscribe to a certain list of beliefs and engage in the neoliberal economy, they are completely 'free' to do whatever they want as atomized individuals. With this, while women gain a significant amount of freedom, the family unit dies.

In the end:
1616778170077.png
 
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Stoneheart

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- After decades of being told in media that being nihilistic is cool, that cynicism is a virtue, and that sarcasm is an excuse for a personality, we have not only made people depressive, but convinced them that it's all a normal part of being an adult.
But We have always been like this...
 

Jarolleon

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It's because Rousseau's definition of freedom has been the ideal of our culture for 3 generations now. We've become a high time preference culture and we've built our institutions to suit that way of living. Much of our economy consists of various forms of safety net; pension funds, insurance companies, unemployment insurance, car financing, and mortgages. It's all geared towards getting what you want now and having it sorted out by somebody else later so long as you do what your manager wants whenever you're on the clock. Also it was a common belief in the mid-20th century (judging by Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson railing against it) that saving is actively harmful to the economy and that everyone should be a spendthrift, so I wouldn't be surprised if that theory contributed to this setup.

Modern levels of prosperity aren't required for this attitude to exist either, it just amplifies the extent of its effects by insulating us from consequences. According to Albion's Seed, Southern Planters and their Cavalier ancestors were like this too, they lived ostentatiously, were often indebted, disdained commerce & industry, and every rank of their society was infamously lazy. The American negro copied all the worst qualities of his old master, and then his attitude became that of Rock n Roll and the 1960's cultural revolution.
 
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gustodog

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I think instead, we will get replaced by immigrants/illegals/DNC voters/whatever who aren't so pozzed and will look around and eventually make an attempt to restore some semblance of sanity.
The ruling class will divide-and-conquer them too and will systematically degrade their human instincts. Their community leaders will be, if they aren't already, bought off and compromised by kid fucking, etc. And if you're in the globalist slauterhouse your children are already being chemically polluted (hence plummeting fertility and skyrocketing literal autism). Physical and cultural separation from the system (folks like the Amish) could be a bulwark against the current slow-mo crippling/culling but it's diffcult for people who have grown up in a system meticulously engineered to install learned helplessness in the populice. The discomfort of separating from the system will, however, be less than the discomfort of living in this system once it has fully consolidated powerr.
 

SnowBall

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You know I wonder how many of the people who constantly bleat the “soft times create soft men” quote are actually soft men themselves. I also wonder how many of them would actually survive the hardships they desperately hope for.
 
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Taylor Swift's Ghostwrite

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American identity is complicated by the fact that humans identify their "tribe" by locating common characteristics it's members share. Its hard to do that when your country is made up of immigrants many of whom have no shared history, or when their history developed in outrageously different ways. Our national tribe in America is unified largely by identifying an external enemy we can use to quiet the multiple narratives that make up the national identity in a melting pot, but since we no longer have one we can find and put our finger on we have started dividing in tribes internally.

The lack of a great threat for us to unify against fractures us and causes us to find specters in each other, whether that be race or gender based.

EDIT: I didn't like my original post so fixed it.
 

Noir drag freak

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I am currently reading "Stormtroopers Families: Homosexuality and Community in the Early Nazi Movement", and most of the stuff that the op written sounds like some of the problems that Weimar Germany had. Personally, I think that globalism, technology and capitalism has destroyed pillars that brought stability to lower classes' lives. I don't think that there was an age where the majority of people were perfect or heroic. There were was always people who where "degenerate" and there was always the people that reach heroic status. Despite this summer's riot, we live in a relatively peaceful age. Have you guys heard of the Red Summer of 1919 or Lager Beer Riot?