Dota 2

[Wongel]

to this day I'm still baffled why valve doesn't use the assets they already have and use it for singleplayer/coop stuff to get people into dota proper (and possibly double-dip with microtransactions).

was kinda excited to hear they were doing some pve stuff, but it was gated behind the pass and only temporary, so... yeah, no thanks gabe.

Because Valve employees actually hate to work.
I'm surprised they came out with Marci at all.
A normal company would have planed that release in tandem with the show, but not Volvo.
They wait until the hype is almost gone again and then they hit you with an uwu animu hero that looks out of place.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Because Valve employees actually hate to work.
I'm surprised they came out with Marci at all.
A normal company would have planed that release in tandem with the show, but not Volvo.
They wait until the hype is almost gone again and then they hit you with an uwu animu hero that looks out of place.

And the fact that they released Grimstroke right after announcing him at TI8 in 2018, is even more baffling that Valve is doing that.

 

[Null]

Does anyone have those very old videos of KingRaven raging called Madcast? I will pay fucking money for their collection. A user on YouTube named Daggius has them (and I think was responsible for making them way back when) but he's privated them and won't hand them out. IIRC Raven worked at a university in Florida and was eating shit because trolls were fucking with him IRL.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Valve announced yesterday, that the 2022 Winter Major has been cancelled, and COVID is to blame again. While teams will be getting DPC points, they won't be getting any prize money, aside from the money for the DPC split, due to the major not happening. Again, Valve shows their laziness again, as they're the only notable E-Sport game that is still cancelling LAN events.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Bump because 7.31

DotA2 feels more like LoL: a lot of heroes are "you can only do this specific role" and the new hero doesn't fill a niche or has a unique mechanic, just deals damage.

 

[Kotol]

Bump because 7.31

DotA2 feels more like LoL: a lot of heroes are "you can only do this specific role" and the new hero doesn't fill a niche or has a unique mechanic, just deals damage.

I can certainly feel your frustration and I might sound like an overly optimistic, maybe even defensive or fanboy-ish, but I think you are being a bit harsh.

Yes, the new heroes are more cartoonish than older heroes.At the same time, they have this certain charming craziness that the mercs from TF2 have. Behind their jolly exterior, they definitely enjoy killing a lot and have a disregard for life here and there.

Next, the build/role diversity for heroes. I will also admit that some pretty iconic hero abilities have been gutted over the years (Kotl's Mana Drain, Doom's LVL? Death, Techies mines just to name a few). It pains me to see some of them go, but they did limit how the hero could be balanced. For example Kotl's cast range got massively increased when they introduced talent trees, but Mana Drain had to go, else you couldn't catch him in a 1v1. Of course, in a game designed like DotA one could say that this is just one of his strengths, he can't do much against many heroes chasing him at the same time. But it seems like Valve is trying really hard to give DotA more mainstream-appeal here and there and I will also admit that there is a very fine line between reducing frustrating mechanics and slowly removing things that make DotA unique.
I am trying to think hard about heroes that only have one singular specific role they can fulfill. I know that most off-role picks are probably less effective than just picking a hero made for that role, but the possibility to outplay/outpick your opponent is still there. Most role 3s can be played as role 4 and vice versa, some role 5s can be played as role 2. Hell, right now we are seeing Storm pos 4 because of the broken scaling of mana cost reduction from Null Talisman and just some months ago I read about a pos 4 Anti Mage in 5-6k MMR.

I think people in general still need to figure the patch out. Yes, it should have been bigger, especially some map changes that shake up lane compositions maybe. Ah well. Who knows, maybe we get trilanes back, maybe in the future we can have full-time roamers back or dedicated woods/jungle farmers.


TL;DR: I may be high on copium, but I think making a comparison that DotA 2 is turning into LoL is unjustified imo. I made the stupid decision to play LoL 2 weeks ago and I still feel dirty and realized I was trying to chase a shadow of a game that was fun once, but those times are long gone.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Yes, the new heroes are more cartoonish than older heroes.At the same time, they have this certain charming craziness that the mercs from TF2 have. Behind their jolly exterior, they definitely enjoy killing a lot and have a disregard for life here and there.

Actually I don't mind them being cartoony, but the latest hero was a disappointment nevertheless. He's just a mish mash of Sand King/Pudge/Barathum that doesn't do their job well enough and can't stand on its own like the others. He doesn't offer anything new (Dawnbreaker offered global teleport, Marci had great mobility and CC), this one just deals damage and is an inferior version of those 3.

Next, the build/role diversity for heroes. I will also admit that some pretty iconic hero abilities have been gutted over the years (Kotl's Mana Drain, Doom's LVL? Death, Techies mines just to name a few). It pains me to see some of them go, but they did limit how the hero could be balanced. For example Kotl's cast range got massively increased when they introduced talent trees, but Mana Drain had to go, else you couldn't catch him in a 1v1. Of course, in a game designed like DotA one could say that this is just one of his strengths, he can't do much against many heroes chasing him at the same time. But it seems like Valve is trying really hard to give DotA more mainstream-appeal here and there and I will also admit that there is a very fine line between reducing frustrating mechanics and slowly removing things that make DotA unique.

I'm not talking specifically about one ability, but the meta as a whole. The talents/level 30 made the game a little faster and heroes more powerful. As a side effect, a lot of abilities and heroes have lost power. Off the top of my head, Chen and Visage, who used to have a pretty good early-mid game are now pointless because the heroes get powerful very quick and neutrals/familiars drop off and become obsolete really fast.

I see a lot of powerful early game heroes are doing this as well and early game supremacy doesn't mean anything. Your carry can quickly farm up and level their talents, and become a powerhouse pretty early, roflstomping and dominating heroes who don't scale well into the late game. Most supports suffer from this and their impact is reduced on the game; the game now depends more on well fed carries and supports just heal, just like LoL.

I am trying to think hard about heroes that only have one singular specific role they can fulfill. I know that most off-role picks are probably less effective than just picking a hero made for that role, but the possibility to outplay/outpick your opponent is still there. Most role 3s can be played as role 4 and vice versa, some role 5s can be played as role 2. Hell, right now we are seeing Storm pos 4 because of the broken scaling of mana cost reduction from Null Talisman and just some months ago I read about a pos 4 Anti Mage in 5-6k MMR.

The new hero is a good example; he's strictly Offlane/Pos 3 and has nothing to contribute as a support, and too little regen to survive solo mid.

Another example, WK used to be pretty decent support, but after they removed his vampiric aura and reduced his stun, not so much.

TL;DR: I may be high on copium, but I think making a comparison that DotA 2 is turning into LoL is unjustified imo. I made the stupid decision to play LoL 2 weeks ago and I still feel dirty and realized I was trying to chase a shadow of a game that was fun once, but those times are long gone.

I haven't touched LoL in what is 10 years or so. I don't remember much. How does it compare to DotA now?

And I've been thinking of start working on a DotA2 mod. Does anyone know what the modding community is like? Do people play mods? Or was autochess just lucky?

 

[Kotol]

Actually I don't mind them being cartoony, but the latest hero was a disappointment nevertheless. He's just a mish mash of Sand King/Pudge/Barathum that doesn't do their job well enough and can't stand on its own like the others. He doesn't offer anything new (Dawnbreaker offered global teleport, Marci had great mobility and CC), this one just deals damage and is an inferior version of those 3.

I'm not talking specifically about one ability, but the meta as a whole. The talents/level 30 made the game a little faster and heroes more powerful. As a side effect, a lot of abilities and heroes have lost power. Off the top of my head, Chen and Visage, who used to have a pretty good early-mid game are now pointless because the heroes get powerful very quick and neutrals/familiars drop off and become obsolete really fast.

I see a lot of powerful early game heroes are doing this as well and early game supremacy doesn't mean anything. Your carry can quickly farm up and level their talents, and become a powerhouse pretty early, roflstomping and dominating heroes who don't scale well into the late game. Most supports suffer from this and their impact is reduced on the game; the game now depends more on well fed carries and supports just heal, just like LoL.

The new hero is a good example; he's strictly Offlane/Pos 3 and has nothing to contribute as a support, and too little regen to survive solo mid.

Another example, WK used to be pretty decent support, but after they removed his vampiric aura and reduced his stun, not so much.

Thanks for replying so thoroughly, I understand now. I also shouldn't write stuff late at night, the next day I scratch my head at some points I tried to make.

Man, maybe the game overall needs some general power reduction. Less stats on items, less stats per level across the board and heroes like Chen and Visage would have more time to dominate before falling off. This could potentially also bring back tri-lanes, because carries cannot safely and effectively farm woods at minute 7.
As far as Primal Beast goes, I hope Valve/Incefrog are not done with him yet.

I haven't touched LoL in what is 10 years or so. I don't remember much. How does it compare to DotA now?

If you think powercreep in DotA is bad and hurts the game, you haven't seen LoL. Let's say it this way, instead of just getting more stats quicker, the only thing every champ easily gets is damage. So everyone is one-shotting everyone, yes, even tanks oneshot eachother before they get at least 2-3 items. It also doesn't help that I am playing ADC/pos 1, which is the only role not allowed to deal significant damage in the early and mid game. Objectives give free stats for the whole team (mostly dragon) for the rest of the match, so having a weaker jungler means your win chances drastically decrease the longer the game goes on. And since the dragon is on bot side, the mid laners and junglers make it their hobby to win bot side for you so you can take dragon as 4. Which means that the team with a more active mid is also going to do way better. If the game is not surrendered before the 30-40 minute mark, 1 team fight can decide the whole game because there is no buyback. I feel like an old man whenever I try to play it and most games are decided after 10-15 minutes and that sucks.

And I've been thinking of start working on a DotA2 mod. Does anyone know what the modding community is like? Do people play mods? Or was autochess just lucky?

From what I have experienced, players stop playing mods during Battlepasses to grind levels for 'em. But there are times when a dedicated community is formed around niche mods, which leads to drama in some cases, but eh...
I am sure that you can ask experienced modders for help and they would be friendly. Other than that, as far as promoting your idea goes...I have no idea what you could do without just asking youtubers or streamers or other content creators for advertising.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

From what I have experienced, players stop playing mods during Battlepasses to grind levels for 'em. But there are times when a dedicated community is formed around niche mods, which leads to drama in some cases, but eh...
I am sure that you can ask experienced modders for help and they would be friendly. Other than that, as far as promoting your idea goes...I have no idea what you could do without just asking youtubers or streamers or other content creators for advertising.

Yea that's the thing. I think Autochess had some korean company help with marketing.

Last time I tried to publish a mod, the only way I could make it popular was to rely on the popularity of an already existing mod. Even then, people sub because memes, but it was a hard time getting people to play. Not sure what changed.

 

[Wongel]

Regarding a point made by someone about role diversity:
Dota2 is probably the most flexible in this regard. I'd say that you can play most heroes in multiple roles and there only a few who are limited to one role. Recently I have picked up gyro as a 4. It's probably not the best meta wise but I still enjoy an above 50% win rate with that pick.

Overall I'm happy with the state of the game atm. I like the current map and there are not that many annoying heroes in the meta (fuck Tinker).

 

[White_N]

The Ice Frog has finally removed green mines from the arsenal of techies, and now the hero can: slow, silence, stun, disarm, and kill everything with a combo of red mines and ethereal. I'm not sure if I hate the new techies more or less than the old ones.

 

[Wongel]

New Techies is okay. He is not as annoying to play against and invites a more active play style around your team.
Looked at his win rate yesterday, its a hero that falls under 50% in ancient and above.
Biggest change, in my opinion, is his lane stage. The upped the auto attack damage and kept his attack range. Playing him as pos 4 and just keep clicking the enemy one constantly wins me almost every lane.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Because Valve employees actually hate to work.
I'm surprised they came out with Marci at all.
A normal company would have planed that release in tandem with the show, but not Volvo.
They wait until the hype is almost gone again and then they hit you with an uwu animu hero that looks out of place.

That's BS.

There's plenty of Co-Op campaigns that were released for compendium and are now free to play!

Here is my breakdown of latest heroes:
Primal Beast - disappointing. Mechanically interesting, but doesn't offer something different than Sand King.
Marci - Feels like they reskinned the monk hero for the anime tie-in. Nobody plays her anymore
Hoodwink - Nice caster Sniper, but the voice is super annoying and cringe.

@Wongel Gyro may not be the best Pos4 but it's one of those supports that totally stomp pubs if you want to be aggressive. Get stuff like force staff (use force staff on the missiles) and medallion of courage, guardian greaves and pipe, and stuff like Linkens, Lotus or Meteor Hammer.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Two tweets have been posted by the official DOTA 2 account, which hints that TI maybe hosted in Singapore this year:



The scenery in the second tweet appears to be in Singapore's Garden by the Bay:



If TI is indeed being held in Singapore this year, then I hope none of the players carries drugs on them, because a TI player (or even champion) getting executed for drug possession would be something.