Dr. Who -

[Starscreams Cape]

I'm not sure why criticism of Who's wokeness is out of bounds. Chinballs admitted that's what they were doing very early on. Talk of "valid criticism" when the underlying support structure is so rotten to begin with seems a bit naive.

If you NEED someone to tell you why yet another childish Trump clone doesn't work in "Arachnids in the UK", I suppose that's fine. If you need to be told in a scholarly and indirect manner that the self-admitted woke storytelling creates caricatures instead of characters not by choice, but by necessity, well okay. Just know that most of the people, judging by the freefalling ratings, have already viscerally figured it out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/chris-chibnall-defends-doctor-whos-focus-on-social-issue

 

[TheImportantFart]

I'm not sure why criticism of Who's wokeness is out of bounds. Chinballs admitted that's what they were doing very early on. Talk of "valid criticism" when the underlying support structure is so rotten to begin with seems a bit naive.

Criticising that stuff is fine. Being utterly retarded about it less so. There's a line between the low bar for discussion and some manchild throwing a buzzword-laden fit, or throwing out empty platitudes like "I liked this before it was political" when you know that if the TARDIS was flying around with a MAGA flag or the Doctor looked at camera and went "Dem SJWs amirite?" everything would be fine and cushty.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Criticising that stuff is fine. Being utterly retarded about it less so. There's a line between the low bar for discussion and some manchild throwing a buzzword-laden fit, or throwing out empty platitudes like "I liked this before it was political" when you know that if the TARDIS was flying around with a MAGA flag or the Doctor looked at camera and went "Dem SJWs amirite?" everything would be fine and cushty.

I think you're assuming a lot there. Most of the fans, even the vocal ones I've heard on YT (Nerdrotic, Doomcock etc) only say they want a return to pre-SJW storytelling. In fact I've heard them go out of their way to say that they specifically don't want "PRO-MAGA" stories.

Let's be fair, too. Doctor Who has always had a moralistic and liberal spine through its existence. It's only in the last 5 years it's had a decidedly destructive, leftist bent. A "Pro-Trump Magatard" would have presumably been turned off long ago, correct?

I gotta say, too, that putting the actual product which is being destroyed by this garbage and the critism of what's destroying it on the same level and abruptly saying "both sides" is a tad bizarre. Seems like you might be going out of your way on YouTube, a platform with hundreds of millions of videos, too seek out things you don't care for.

 

[TheImportantFart]

Nerdrotic, Doomcock etc

Lol, those two have issues of their own, specifically pushing the QAnon style "Trust the plan" shit I talked about earlier.

Let's be fair, too. Doctor Who has always had a moralistic and liberal spine through its existence. It's only in the last 5 years it's had a decidedly destructive, leftist bent.

True, although I'd say it's actually more of a neoliberal bent.

I gotta say, too, that putting the actual product which is being destroyed by this garbage and the critism of what's destroying it on the same level is a tad bizarre. Seems like you might be going out of your way on YouTube, a platform with hundreds of millions of videos, and seeking out things you don't care for.

When did I say they were on the same level? Go through my recent posts in this thread and you'll see I've been one of the most vocally anti-Chibnall people in the thread. I want him to GTFO and for someone competent to come along and fix the show (which probably won't happen, but hey ho) way more than I want the buzzword posters to go away. That doesn't mean I can't point out cringe in my own camp when I see it, or explain why I think it's unhelpful.

Anyway, this is getting off topic even for a multimedia thread. If you want to discuss this further, by all means PM me.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

Lol, those two have issues of their own, specifically pushing the QAnon style "Trust the plan" shit I talked about earlier.

True, although I'd say it's actually more of a neoliberal bent.

When did I say they were on the same level? Go through my recent posts in this thread and you'll see I've been one of the most vocally anti-Chibnall people in the thread. I want him to GTFO and for someone competent to come along and fix the show (which probably won't happen, but hey ho) way more than I want the buzzword posters to go away. That doesn't mean I can't point out cringe in my own camp when I see it, or explain why I think it's unhelpful.

Anyway, this is getting off topic even for a multimedia thread. If you want to discuss this further, by all means PM me.

I also notice those who try to play both sides ("I don't like SJWs, but the Anti-SJWs are just as retarded and are like QAnon" types) tend to be the most unhappy and screechy too.

And I mean, buzzwords can be hard to avoid.

In short the writing sucks because identity politics is one of the main goals, not a secondary goal or even just a minor goal, but the main goal, and much of the writing revolves around this ideology.

In the past this was a minor or secondary goal.

Hope this helps.

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

To be fair, most of the YouTube criticism of Doctor Who lately has been rubbish. A lot of it's a sad holdover from the anti-SJW/Skeptic community era, with lots of clickbait titles and whipping up outrage, but very little analysis of the genuine issues. There's also been some cross pollination with the QAnon style hopium the Fandom Menace has been flogging lately, with people saying Chibnall is totally going to be fired any day now and the show is totally going to be cancelled, despite there being no hard evidence of any such thing occurring.

I think what Jay's trying to say is that there is a lot to criticise about the Chibnall era that isn't just "GRRR SJWs, forced diversity, woke PC blah blah blah". There are good criticisms to be made around that stuff, and I think Jay did a good job of breaking down just how lazy Chibnall had been in engaging with hot button political issues. But most of the discourse around it has been KiA/NoBS-tier and it's burying a lot of valid criticism.

Most of his criticism is exactly the 'grrr, sjws, forced diversity, woke PC blah blah blah' stuff with the labels filed off. He brought up inconsistent and shallow characters, inconsistent and shallow morality, one note and one dimensional villains, and so on. Exactly the same stuff anti-woke critique brings up. He just stubbornly refused to name it as such, but as far as apolitical go I don't think it is. And I assume his critique will be dismissed the same as any other.

But yeah a lot of modern youtube tier critique is mediocre or outright bad.

And I did like the video, even if I skimmed large parts of it on account of listening to those parts while doing other stuff.

 

[TheImportantFart]

I also notice those who try to play both sides ("I don't like SJWs, but the Anti-SJWs are just as retarded and are like QAnon" types) tend to be the most unhappy and screechy too.

I dunno man. I haven't allowed anti-SJWism to rot my brain to the extent that I'm willing to cuck myself to bring about the anti-SJW utopia.

But there I go again pushing things off-topic...

 

[Judge Holden]

Just gonna throw my two cents into the autist slapfight here.

Doctor Who, much like many/most big name western franchises in currentyear doesn't utterly fucking suck because it went wokesped.

It utterly fucking sucks because the writing is trash, the acting is contemptible, the effects are pathetic, and not one member of the cast or crew appears to give a solitary shit beyond getting paid and plumping out their resumes for the next job they wont give a solitary shit about.

This is *why* the creators made the conscious choice to go wokesped

The very reason for this is in order to cover for this absolute lack of quality and still get fawned over by media and critics, as wokesped shit is currently the main "compensate for being utter shit" gimmick creative media goons utilise due to how heavily pushed it is by marketing speds for the past few years.

This is not the first time this has happened, hell its not even the first time this has happened with this very franchise and this very showrunner.

Back a decade plus ago the "get positive exposure and attention" gimmick du jour was slathering edgy and tryhard slop over everything, and in no part of the franchise was this more visible than with Torchwood, as headed by chinballs himself, which decided to compensate for candaian soap opera tier writing and yugoslavia soap opera tier acting by crowbarring in as much rape and pedophilia and child killing and cancer and whatnot as possible along with the most embarrasingly asinine depictions of sexual encounters ever broadcast on britbong television, with the show's last episode's climax being a cackling child rapist sneering about how he was going to rape little girls in hell forever while he saved the world.

What I am trying to say is, wokesped shit or SJW shit or whatever you wanna call it is not the root of all evil in creative media. Its just the latest excuse shitty media people use to churn out worthless products in exchange for high profile praise and positive coverage to improve their own career prospects.

It was not the first such gimmick excuse these specimens have used, and It will not be the last such gimmick excuse they will use to get out of doing their fucking jobs to a halfway acceptable quality level.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

Just gonna throw my two cents into the autist slapfight here.

Doctor Who, much like many/most big name western franchises in currentyear doesn't utterly fucking suck because it went wokesped.

It utterly fucking sucks because the writing is trash, the acting is contemptible, the effects are pathetic, and not one member of the cast or crew appears to give a solitary shit beyond getting paid and plumping out their resumes for the next job they wont give a solitary shit about.

This is *why* the creators made the conscious choice to go wokesped

The very reason for this is in order to cover for this absolute lack of quality and still get fawned over by media and critics, as wokesped shit is currently the main "compensate for being utter shit" gimmick creative media goons utilise due to how heavily pushed it is by marketing speds for the past few years.

This is not the first time this has happened, hell its not even the first time this has happened with this very franchise and this very showrunner.

Back a decade plus ago the "get positive exposure and attention" gimmick du jour was slathering edgy and tryhard slop over everything, and in no part of the franchise was this more visible than with Torchwood, as headed by chinballs himself, which decided to compensate for candaian soap opera tier writing and yugoslavia soap opera tier acting by crowbarring in as much rape and pedophilia and child killing and cancer and whatnot as possible along with the most embarrasingly asinine depictions of sexual encounters ever broadcast on britbong television, with the show's last episode's climax being a cackling child rapist sneering about how he was going to rape little girls in hell forever while he saved the world.

What I am trying to say is, wokesped shit or SJW shit or whatever you wanna call it is not the root of all evil in creative media. Its just the latest excuse shitty media people use to churn out worthless products in exchange for high profile praise and positive coverage to improve their own career prospects.

It was not the first such gimmick excuse these specimens have used, and It will not be the last such gimmick excuse they will use to get out of doing their fucking jobs to a halfway acceptable quality level.

Oh, believe me, I get it.

I don't really appreciate being told I am racist/sexist/bigoted for not liking something. I also don't appreciate being told by a centrist know it all that I am wrong for finding this very unpleasant and a tad disturbing, considering race and sex relations have gotten really bad partially due to this style of propaganda.

And yes I may have said some ridiculous shit in the past. So what? A lot of people on here say over the top shit about how SJWs are going to destroy the west and how the internet is going to no longer be free because of them.

You can say all you want that it's not due to SJWs, but however, if it was without that element factoring into the story...we would probably have less people defending it for being woke. The companies would also probably be more likely to course correct or just outright cancel it.

So in other words pandering to SJWs is a way to keep something going indefinitely and to silence all criticism, while also supposedly looking good and virtuous in the process. We need new IPs but they are focusing on bastardizing and frankly uglifying old IPs with SJW garbage and ideology, such as the terrible casting which involves hiring the most unappealing diversity hires imaginable, like that Sandman Netflix adaptation.

I believe not focusing on the SJW ideology is just like looking at the collateral damage and not what caused it. The ideology influences the writing and creative decisions, including how bad it is. And yes, it's also true that even without the ideology, the writing would be bad...the difference is people will be acting differently about it and the problem can likely be addressed properly.

 

[Gar For Archer]

You’re not wrong, it’s just that we’ve all heard the same shit already a billion times AND ALREADY FUCKING AGREE WITH IT. Like seriously, you constantly preaching to the choir is fucking annoying because what are you achieving by spewing the same shit over and over again?

If you want every single thread you participate in to be a “lol SJWs bad” circle jerk, good for you. Everyone else would prefer to.. ya know... actually talk about the thread subject without constant fixation on SJW bullshit.

Like, if we get a new tweet from an actor or producer saying something retarded we can come together and laugh at it. But you’re not happy with that, everything just HAS to be tied back to how wokeness is ruining the west and derailing the entire fucking thread. You don’t get laughed out of threads because we think you’re wrong - it’s because you’re a fucking sperg who can’t stop bringing up politics when everyone else just wants to have fun.

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

Just gonna throw my two cents into the autist slapfight here.

Doctor Who, much like many/most big name western franchises in currentyear doesn't utterly fucking suck because it went wokesped.

It utterly fucking sucks because the writing is trash, the acting is contemptible, the effects are pathetic, and not one member of the cast or crew appears to give a solitary shit beyond getting paid and plumping out their resumes for the next job they wont give a solitary shit about.

This is *why* the creators made the conscious choice to go wokesped

It's both.

Woke progressivism causes the writing to be shallow, acting to be bad (they don't have anything to work with and their characters are shallow) and people to stop giving a shit about the quality. Special effects is probably just incompetence.
As a result the show suck.
So woke progressivism is upped in order to excuse the suckage. This results in a wokesped spiral.

Don't think it's possible to discuss the modern series without it. Like Jay tried in that five hour video and... most of his critique is about how the morals of the dr is entirely hollow and how the characters are also hollow.

Suppose you could talk about older iterations of the show. Works for the Star Trek thread.

Or the audio dramas, I've heard some of them are good.

 

[Judge Holden]

It's both.

Woke progressivism causes the writing to be shallow, acting to be bad (they don't have anything to work with and their characters are shallow) and people to stop giving a shit about the quality. Special effects is probably just incompetence.
As a result the show suck.
So woke progressivism is upped in order to excuse the suckage. This results in a wokesped spiral.

Don't think it's possible to discuss the modern series without it. Like Jay tried in that five hour video and... most of his critique is about how the morals of the dr is entirely hollow and how the characters are also hollow.

Suppose you could talk about older iterations of the show. Works for the Star Trek thread.

Or the audio dramas, I've heard some of them are good.

Woke progressiveness only exists when the people involved dont give a solitary shit about the actual progressive substance and progressive integrity of the shit they are doing and instead just want to maximise the number of boxes ticked, buzzwords cited, and trendy narratives crowbarred in to the work, even if the end result is a thousand fucking miles away from being anywhere close to progressive and in many cases is actively regressive in every sense of the word, even before you take into account how godawful it makes progressiveness look.

A topical example would be the clusterfuck surrounding the powerpuff girls live action series in which they mindlessly threw in a hundred contradictory woke narrative totems into the mix and wound up turning positive depictions of female heros into self hating and mentally unsound losers and airheads, one of which being a lesbian and thus an angry sex obsessed degenerate, and turned their father into an abusive, stupid, selfish, uncaring caricature while *also* racelifting him into a black guy, so that the end result is effectively a /pol/ parody of the cartoon.

Which ofcourse is to be expected, as the people involved dont give a shit either about the media they are working on or the gimmick they use to wallpaper over its flaws.

This is why I have zero faith that shit will improve even if wokesped slop falls out of favour and becomes straight up tabboo in media land. The hacks involved in the creation process will simply jump to the next marketing pushed gimmick to ensure the hacks in the media critic process spam positive reviews and coverage.

Until the industry removes the incentive to do the bare minimum knowing they will still get bonuses/promotions for enough positive reviews and coverage, this shit will not change.

Unfortunately for shit like doctor who, the sheer volume of built up bad storytelling and bad blood from the traditional fanbase means that the franchise is effectively unsalvageable beyond a wholesale reboot and mass retcon which in and of itself is just as likely to finish the show off

 

[Flexo]

This is why I have zero faith that shit will improve even if wokesped slop falls out of favour and becomes straight up tabboo in media land. The hacks involved in the creation process will simply jump to the next marketing pushed gimmick to ensure the hacks in the media critic process spam positive reviews and coverage.

Until the industry removes the incentive to do the bare minimum knowing they will still get bonuses/promotions for enough positive reviews and coverage, this shit will not change.

It's the age old dilemma of what happens when competence runs up against ideology. If someone's good at their job, but maybe is a little bit less of a pure believer than you are comfortable with, do you let it slide and let them work? Or get rid of them in favor of someone more pure?

Of course then the spiral begins - especially when less talented people figure out they can topple and overtake a more talented competitor by being holier than thou. This then begins the feedback loop of the purity spiral ALSO becoming the incompetency spiral.

This is inevitable as the factor of trade-offs in time mean that for someone to do a job (and do it well) gives them less time to worry about intellectual purity. You're not reading the holy books if you're out planting crops. So there is always room for the "more pure" to wiggle in leaving less room and time for the job proper etc.

Progressiveism and SJWs currently are the popular zeitgeist so since they get no challenge from the media or anybody else with societal power, they're free to keep spiraling for awhile now.

ANYWAY

Watching Jay's video about the season. That whole story about a time-traveling racist is just cringe. Why not make it a warrior alien who's race got its butt kicked by humanity so it's traveling back in time to stir up division and prevent humanity from ever uniting and taking on the universe?

 

[UnKillShredDur]

You know, there's a certain girl who is apparently in a certain place where she probably shouldn't be 'who' I've been meaning to talk about for a while now...
I don't know why they named the pompadour hairstyle after her though.

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

Woke progressiveness only exists when the people involved dont give a solitary shit about the actual progressive substance and progressive integrity of the shit they are doing and instead just want to maximise the number of boxes ticked, buzzwords cited, and trendy narratives crowbarred in to the work, even if the end result is a thousand fucking miles away from being anywhere close to progressive and in many cases is actively regressive in every sense of the word, even before you take into account how godawful it makes progressiveness look.

A topical example would be the clusterfuck surrounding the powerpuff girls live action series in which they mindlessly threw in a hundred contradictory woke narrative totems into the mix and wound up turning positive depictions of female heros into self hating and mentally unsound losers and airheads, one of which being a lesbian and thus an angry sex obsessed degenerate, and turned their father into an abusive, stupid, selfish, uncaring caricature while *also* racelifting him into a black guy, so that the end result is effectively a /pol/ parody of the cartoon.

Which ofcourse is to be expected, as the people involved dont give a shit either about the media they are working on or the gimmick they use to wallpaper over its flaws.

This is why I have zero faith that shit will improve even if wokesped slop falls out of favour and becomes straight up tabboo in media land. The hacks involved in the creation process will simply jump to the next marketing pushed gimmick to ensure the hacks in the media critic process spam positive reviews and coverage.

Until the industry removes the incentive to do the bare minimum knowing they will still get bonuses/promotions for enough positive reviews and coverage, this shit will not change.

Unfortunately for shit like doctor who, the sheer volume of built up bad storytelling and bad blood from the traditional fanbase means that the franchise is effectively unsalvageable beyond a wholesale reboot and mass retcon which in and of itself is just as likely to finish the show off

At least with Dr Who there is a lot of older stuff to go back to. You're probably right that even if woke progressivism dies, eventually we'd have another restrictive and hypocritical worldview to take its place, but before that happens there'd probably be a few decades that're more chill. But woke doesn't look like it's dying anytime soon, unfortunately.

Watching Jay's video about the season. That whole story about a time-traveling racist is just cringe. Why not make it a warrior alien who's race got its butt kicked by humanity so it's traveling back in time to stir up division and prevent humanity from ever uniting and taking on the universe?

My favorite part was when the Dr locked up those spiders because it's unethical to just shoot them, we should let them starve to death and probably eat each other. That's how we'll let them die with dignity.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

The aliens from the Eccelston/Tennant era were pretty decent. The Ood and the Sontarans are memorable to say the least.

Those races actually have their own lore and culture but I meant more along the lines of the two individuals who worship the 'Creator', one of them is just an old woman with dreads with swirls drawn on her face. Sometimes they seem to explain it away as some future offshoot of humanity but other times they don't bother at all and that lack of believability is what's so disappointing. If they're not propping it up with a little bit of writing anymore then they really stopped caring.

 

[TheImportantFart]

Right, since Jay's finally finished his review video, @UnKillShredDur has hinted he'll be starting his reviews up again and I have a long weekend and need to cleanse my palate from the recent spergfest, I've run out of excuses not to do my review of The Five Doctors*. At long last, enjoy:

*The Four Doctors if you want to get pedantic**.

**The Three Doctors if you want to get really pedantic.

“One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back.”
Nobody tell Susan it’s going to take him seven incarnations to make good on that promise.

Tegan: “It’s like Earth after a thunderstorm”
Huh. They’re building the cheap production design in diagetically.

I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that I didn't have access to high speed internet as a kid, so for behind the scenes information on classic stories I was reliant on whatever I could find on the DVD special features. I remember seeing the First Doctor in this story and thinking: "Huh, he doesn't look quite like William Hartnell." But since the DVD box had advertised William Hartnell as appearing in the story, I wrote it off as the ravages of age and spent my first viewing of this story under the impression that William Hartnell had played the First Doctor outside of the archive clip at the start. Then, I saw the name Richard Hurndall in the credits under the part of the Doctor and wondered why there was another Doctor I apparently didn't know about. I then read the information booklet that came with the DVD and my mind was officially blown. In hindsight I don't know how I was ever fooled. Hurndall does a pretty good job of standing in for William Hartnell, but aside from a less than identical appearance he also plays the First Doctor in a very different way.

Brigadier: “That’s Colonel Crichton, my replacement.”
Second Doctor: “Yes, mine was pretty unpromising too.”
Oh Doctor, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

I love the images of the characters caught in the time scoop. The Second Doctor and the Brigadier look like they’ve just caught wind of a particularly nasty fart:



Fifth Doctor: “Great chunks of my past. Detaching themselves like melting icebergs... STOP BURNING THE TAPES FOR THE DALEKS’ MASTER PLAN YOU BASTARDS!”

The Fourth Doctor's appearance in this story is another thing I wasn't redpilled on until after my first viewing. I was always a bit curious why he only appeared for a few minutes before disappearing from the story, but it wasn't until later I found out they were using stock footage from Shada to represent his appearance. It's a huge shame Tom Baker declined to appear. Although this is my favourite multi-Doctor TV story, it could've been so much more. A lot of changes and cuts had to be made at the last minute due to cast members dropping out and budget issues. I'd love to see Terrance Dicks's original script for this, or for Big Finish to do a dramatisation of it. Forget #ReleaseTheSnyderCut, #ReleaseTheDicksCut... actually that sounds like an anti-circumcision movement.

Why did Sarah run away towards a fence? There’s a perfectly good road she could’ve run up a few paces to the right. Also, in case anyone’s wondering, no, that shape isn’t me messing around in MS Paint. That’s the special effect for the time scoop:



They released a Special Edition version of this story (which I own but don’t have to hand) with updated special effects, and while the updated effect looked more sophisticated, it also looked like a shiny dog turd:



Tegan: “Two hearts.”
Phil Collins: “Livin’ in just one mind.”

There’s a strange trumpeting noise whenever the Dark Tower appears onscreen. This even happens in the Big Finish audio dramas. I have no idea what it is, but I like to believe it’s the Time Lord equivalent of the shofar.

The Time Lords’ plan to use the Master to rescue the Doctor always seemed really stupid to me. I know they want someone disposable who they can easily bribe, but how could they have ever thought the Doctor was going to trust him, even with the seal of the High Council? If they needed a renegade to do a rescue mission, why not send in Drax? Still, more Anthony Ainley is never a bad thing. You can really see how much he loves playing the Master in this story.

The First Doctor: “The Dark Tower.”
I would make a Stephen King joke here, but I’ve never read any of the Dark Tower books or seen the film (and I hear I’m better off for the latter).

One of the changes that had to be made for budgetary reasons was that Sarah was supposed to be attacked Autons upon arrival in the Death Zone. This was then changed to falling off a cliff, which in the finished episode was... falling down a slight incline:



My Granny could get up that no problem.

“The Dark Tower!”
“The Dark Tower!”
“The Dark Tower!”
“It’s only a model.”
“Shh!”:



Third Doctor: “All this was the setting for the games.”
So the Death Zone was basically the Time Lord equivalent of WWE? Why do I get the feeling Rassilon’s first regeneration probably resembled Vince McMahon?

For years I thought Jehoshaphat was the Master’s real name. Considering his real name is Koschei according to some sources, I like my head canon a lot better.

The Master: “I knew this was going to be difficult, but I didn’t realise even you would be so stupid as to make it impossible.”
One of my favourite Master lines.

"Run away! Run away!":



Shameless in-episode promotion of the shitty Atari video game tie-in:



Do I really need to caption this image?:



The famous scene with the Raston Warrior Robot was added partly because Terrance Dicks thought the Third Doctor and Sarah were having too easy a time getting to the Dark Tower, and partly because Dicks thought Eric Saward had too much of a boner for the Cybermen and decided to massacre them to annoy him. So on top of being an awesome action scene, it’s also a god tier piece of trolling and up there with the rakes scene from “Cape Feare” as one of the best bits of filler ever devised.

Chancellor Flavia: “The black scrolls of Rassilon!”
Fifth Doctor: “Interesting. I thought they were out of print.”
Borusa: “This is forbidden knowledge from the dark times.”
This whole conversation is much funnier if you imagine the scrolls are Rassilon’s secret collection of BLACKED erotica.

Haha, it’s Doctor Who’s answer to the “Oh my God” scene from Troll 2. Although to be fair, try saying the line “No, not the mind probe” and have it not sound silly. Seriously, try it.

Fun fact: the Yeti costume they used for this story was one of the originals from the 60s and had decayed quite badly, so it had to be shot with careful lighting to mask the degradation. Not being able to see it properly is far more effective than if we saw it in full light.

The door from Alice in Wonderland makes a cameo. That’s not forced perspective, it’s actually that size:



Why does the Robot have rope in its cave? Actually I don’t think I want an answer to that question considering the costume looks like a gimp suit.

Oh come on, the Cyberleader just clearly saw the First Doctor and Tegan running off and probably heard them talking to the Master and didn’t think to investigate?:



Zoe rocking the bubble wrap chic:



The Harp of Rassilon always confused me. The Harp is an Earth instrument, so did Rassilon give humans the idea for the Harp, did humans give Rassilon the idea, or was it just a coincidence? Once again the correct answer is the props department being cheap.

The Second Doctor: “It’s old high Gallifreyan, the ancient language of the Time Lords.”



No, it’s quite clearly Greek. You didn't even try to alter it.

The Brigadier knocks the Master out with one punch. Even in retirement he was a total badass:



Rassilon’s ring looks suspiciously like Percy’s ring of purest green from Blackadder:



So everyone’s going home. Let’s recap where all the companions end up after this:

Susan - as mentioned above, the Doctor doesn’t come back to see her until his eighth incarnation. Then she has to watch Earth get fucked up again and watch her son die.

The Brigadier - Pops up in a so-so Seventh Doctor story and whatever the hell was going on in Dimensions in Time before dying offscreen, then getting dug up and resurrected as a Cyberman for a very ill-judged final tribute.

Sarah-Jane - Waits decades for the Tenth Doctor to come back and see her, and even then he only ran into her by accident.

I do love a happy ending.

Sorry if that was a bit shorter than people were hoping for, but I don't have much to say about this one. As I said, it's the best multi-Doctor TV story in my opinion. All the Doctors and past companions get their time to shine, and are dropped into a cracking good adventure with all the fanservice you'd want for an anniversary special. It's just a shame it's not really the Five Doctors.

Next up I'm going to watch a story that has an absolutely abysmal reputation, but which I've never seen before. Stay tuned for Timelash.

 

[Flexo]

Right, since Jay's finally finished his review video, @UnKillShredDur has hinted he'll be starting his reviews up again and I have a long weekend and need to cleanse my palate from the recent spergfest, I've run out of excuses not to do my review of The Five Doctors*. At long last, enjoy:

*The Four Doctors if you want to get pedantic**.

**The Three Doctors if you want to get really pedantic.

“One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back.”
Nobody tell Susan it’s going to take him seven incarnations to make good on that promise.

Tegan: “It’s like Earth after a thunderstorm”
Huh. They’re building the cheap production design in diagetically.

I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that I didn't have access to high speed internet as a kid, so for behind the scenes information on classic stories I was reliant on whatever I could find on the DVD special features. I remember seeing the First Doctor in this story and thinking: "Huh, he doesn't look quite like William Hartnell." But since the DVD box had advertised William Hartnell as appearing in the story, I wrote it off as the ravages of age and spent my first viewing of this story under the impression that William Hartnell had played the First Doctor outside of the archive clip at the start. Then, I saw the name Richard Hurndall in the credits under the part of the Doctor and wondered why there was another Doctor I apparently didn't know about. I then read the information booklet that came with the DVD and my mind was officially blown. In hindsight I don't know how I was ever fooled. Hurndall does a pretty good job of standing in for William Hartnell, but aside from a less than identical appearance he also plays the First Doctor in a very different way.

Brigadier: “That’s Colonel Crichton, my replacement.”
Second Doctor: “Yes, mine was pretty unpromising too.”
Oh Doctor, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

I love the images of the characters caught in the time scoop. The Second Doctor and the Brigadier look like they’ve just caught wind of a particularly nasty fart:

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Fifth Doctor: “Great chunks of my past. Detaching themselves like melting icebergs... STOP BURNING THE TAPES FOR THE DALEKS’ MASTER PLAN YOU BASTARDS!”

The Fourth Doctor's appearance in this story is another thing I wasn't redpilled on until after my first viewing. I was always a bit curious why he only appeared for a few minutes before disappearing from the story, but it wasn't until later I found out they were using stock footage from Shada to represent his appearance. It's a huge shame Tom Baker declined to appear. Although this is my favourite multi-Doctor TV story, it could've been so much more. A lot of changes and cuts had to be made at the last minute due to cast members dropping out and budget issues. I'd love to see Terrance Dicks's original script for this, or for Big Finish to do a dramatisation of it. Forget #ReleaseTheSnyderCut, #ReleaseTheDicksCut... actually that sounds like an anti-circumcision movement.

Why did Sarah run away towards a fence? There’s a perfectly good road she could’ve run up a few paces to the right. Also, in case anyone’s wondering, no, that shape isn’t me messing around in MS Paint. That’s the special effect for the time scoop:

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They released a Special Edition version of this story (which I own but don’t have to hand) with updated special effects, and while the updated effect looked more sophisticated, it also looked like a shiny dog turd:

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Tegan: “Two hearts.”
Phil Collins: “Livin’ in just one mind.”

There’s a strange trumpeting noise whenever the Dark Tower appears onscreen. This even happens in the Big Finish audio dramas. I have no idea what it is, but I like to believe it’s the Time Lord equivalent of the shofar.

The Time Lords’ plan to use the Master to rescue the Doctor always seemed really stupid to me. I know they want someone disposable who they can easily bribe, but how could they have ever thought the Doctor was going to trust him, even with the seal of the High Council? If they needed a renegade to do a rescue mission, why not send in Drax? Still, more Anthony Ainley is never a bad thing. You can really see how much he loves playing the Master in this story.

The First Doctor: “The Dark Tower.”
I would make a Stephen King joke here, but I’ve never read any of the Dark Tower books or seen the film (and I hear I’m better off for the latter).

One of the changes that had to be made for budgetary reasons was that Sarah was supposed to be attacked Autons upon arrival in the Death Zone. This was then changed to falling off a cliff, which in the finished episode was... falling down a slight incline:

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My Granny could get up that no problem.

“The Dark Tower!”
“The Dark Tower!”
“The Dark Tower!”
“It’s only a model.”
“Shh!”:

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Third Doctor: “All this was the setting for the games.”
So the Death Zone was basically the Time Lord equivalent of WWE? Why do I get the feeling Rassilon’s first regeneration probably resembled Vince McMahon?

For years I thought Jehoshaphat was the Master’s real name. Considering his real name is Koschei according to some sources, I like my head canon a lot better.

The Master: “I knew this was going to be difficult, but I didn’t realise even you would be so stupid as to make it impossible.”
One of my favourite Master lines.

"Run away! Run away!":

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Shameless in-episode promotion of the shitty Atari video game tie-in:

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Do I really need to caption this image?:

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The famous scene with the Raston Warrior Robot was added partly because Terrance Dicks thought the Third Doctor and Sarah were having too easy a time getting to the Dark Tower, and partly because Dicks thought Eric Saward had too much of a boner for the Cybermen and decided to massacre them to annoy him. So on top of being an awesome action scene, it’s also a god tier piece of trolling and up there with the rakes scene from “Cape Feare” as one of the best bits of filler ever devised.

Chancellor Flavia: “The black scrolls of Rassilon!”
Fifth Doctor: “Interesting. I thought they were out of print.”
Borusa: “This is forbidden knowledge from the dark times.”
This whole conversation is much funnier if you imagine the scrolls are Rassilon’s secret collection of BLACKED erotica.

Haha, it’s Doctor Who’s answer to the “Oh my God” scene from Troll 2. Although to be fair, try saying the line “No, not the mind probe” and have it not sound silly. Seriously, try it.

Fun fact: the Yeti costume they used for this story was one of the originals from the 60s and had decayed quite badly, so it had to be shot with careful lighting to mask the degradation. Not being able to see it properly is far more effective than if we saw it in full light.

The door from Alice in Wonderland makes a cameo. That’s not forced perspective, it’s actually that size:

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Why does the Robot have rope in its cave? Actually I don’t think I want an answer to that question considering the costume looks like a gimp suit.

Oh come on, the Cyberleader just clearly saw the First Doctor and Tegan running off and probably heard them talking to the Master and didn’t think to investigate?:

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Zoe rocking the bubble wrap chic:

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The Harp of Rassilon always confused me. The Harp is an Earth instrument, so did Rassilon give humans the idea for the Harp, did humans give Rassilon the idea, or was it just a coincidence? Once again the correct answer is the props department being cheap.

The Second Doctor: “It’s old high Gallifreyan, the ancient language of the Time Lords.”

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No, it’s quite clearly Greek. You didn't even try to alter it.

The Brigadier knocks the Master out with one punch. Even in retirement he was a total badass:

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Rassilon’s ring looks suspiciously like Percy’s ring of purest green from Blackadder:

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So everyone’s going home. Let’s recap where all the companions end up after this:

Susan - as mentioned above, the Doctor doesn’t come back to see her until his eighth incarnation. Then she has to watch Earth get fucked up again and watch her son die.

The Brigadier - Pops up in a so-so Seventh Doctor story and whatever the hell was going on in Dimensions in Time before dying offscreen, then getting dug up and resurrected as a Cyberman for a very ill-judged final tribute.

Sarah-Jane - Waits decades for the Tenth Doctor to come back and see her, and even then he only ran into her by accident.

I do love a happy ending.

Sorry if that was a bit shorter than people were hoping for, but I don't have much to say about this one. As I said, it's the best multi-Doctor TV story in my opinion. All the Doctors and past companions get their time to shine, and are dropped into a cracking good adventure with all the fanservice you'd want for an anniversary special. It's just a shame it's not really the Five Doctors.

Next up I'm going to watch a story that has an absolutely abysmal reputation, but which I've never seen before. Stay tuned for Timelash.

One of the ones I have on disc. I'm still partial to the 3 docs (because Troughton is best) but 5 is a lot of cheesy fun. That warrior robot is just too hilarious.

Definitely agree, would kill to see what the original vision was. It feels like they barely needed two doctors for this at all. A challenge truly requiring all 5 (because you could see Rassilon having some complicated 5 part lock) would have been epic.

I also really miss this version of Rassilon as the jolly old troll of Time Lords.

 

[starborn427614]

I'd honestly forgotten about this show for a bit there. Judging by the complete lack of advertisements via Twitter, I assume the BBC has too.

 

[UnKillShredDur]

As @TheImportantFart guessed by my not so subtle clues, I've decided to take another stab at nu-Who.
Since it's been a while, I went ahead and reread my previous (dr)UnKillFill rantviews, and I found my style to be just a little bit too repetitive... There's only so many ways I can call Rose a bitch, Jack a whore, Rose a whore, Ricky a cuck, etc.

For that reason, I'm going to mix it up this time by adding in some drinking game elements. At very least this should cut down on the number of boring "Fuck you Rose Tyler 's."
For practical purposes, I'm not actually going to be *playing* the game as I make it, but I will be adding new rules as I think of them. Trust me though when I say I will still be drinking heavily as I watch this episode.

Feel free to offer up additional drinking rules for future episodes if you want. If this drinking game idea ends up sticking I'll probably add them to the list.

Spoiler: Drinking Game Rules:

Take a drink every time.

-Rose Tyler does something rude, selfish, or generally terrible. Double that if 10 enables or validates her for doing it.
-Rose flirts with someone who isn't her boyfriend. (They STILL haven't officially broken up yet.)
-Rose acts like someone is stupid for not knowing something that she barely understands herself.
-Rose acts terrible to Jackie.
-10 Calls Rose smart when she isn't.
-10 gets outsmarted by somebody dumber than himself.
-The show unfairly shits on Mickey for no reason.
-Ricky acts like a passive aggressive bitch (thus deserving to be shit on).

Finish your entire drink any time Rose stares daggers at another woman for simply existing in proximity to the 10.

Spoiler: Long

Alright it's time for, "The Girl in the Fireplace". aka: "Moffat writes the rough draft for Amy Pond a few years early with a historical French woman."
As I said almost a year ago, I don't remember liking this one nearly as much as most people seem to. My opinions have changed before though, so let's see how it goes.

-Right off the bat, we start with screaming French people running away from something that we can't see. So far, this episode is 100% historically accurate.

-Madame de Pompadour, a real life person who actually existed, states that the Doctor is the only man she ever loved besides King Louis XV. On the one hand, I find it kind of skeevy any time Who does this kind of thing (specifically saying that a real life historical figure wanted to bang the Doctor.) On the other hand, as we'll find out, she's also a whore, so I don't care that much.

-After a decent cold open, we come back 3000 years later to Babylon 5's anorexic cousin. Right on.

-Wow, Rose actually let Micky leave the Tardis before her, and she didn't even shut the door in his face. I know that's a low bar for Rose, but credit where it's due. Moffat is writing again this time, so maybe we'll be getting the return of bizarro Rose Tyler.

-Rose: It looks kind of abandoned. Anyone on board?
10: Nah, nothing here. Well, nothing dangerous. Well, not that dangerous. You know what, I'll just have a quick scan, in case there's anything dangerous.
Me: Once again, Rose is actually being sensible and asking if they're safe and once again the Doctor didn't bother scanning before they left the Tardis... I'm starting to think Rose should have worn her Union Jack shirt for this one. All kidding aside (I hope), 10 and Rose are actually both being quite nice to Mickey so far.

-Rose: Where'd all the crew go?
10: Good question. No life readings on board.
Rose: Well, we're in deep space. They didn't just nip out for a quick fag.
Me (as a yank): -giggles uncontrollably-

I'm going to try to keep the Amelia Pond references to a minimum, but I can't be the only one who noticed that 10 introduced himself to Reinette as a fire inspector, and 11 was later mistaken for a policeman by Amelia. That's an odd coincidence right?

-Damn Rose isn't even being a bitch while explaining to Mickey that the Tardis telepathically translates languages. She's actually explaining it to him like how a normal human being might explain something to a friend. She's even being borderline *affectionate* to him while doing so.

Who is this person and what has she done with Rose Tyler? No, seriously.

-10 just used his sonic screwdriver to light a candle. I'm no scientist, and I know that the sonic is basically a magic wand at this point, but for some reason using sound to create fire just seemed extra ridiculous to me.
So I looked it up. This is the best I could come up with; most of the answers seem to say that yes, it would actually be possible to use sound to start a fire. I guess I learned something tonight.

-I'm not sure which is creepier: the only clock in the room being broken but you can still hear ticking, or a weird adult man randomly appearing in a little girls bedroom while she's sleeping. I guess I'll give it to the ticking on the technicality that the thing doing the ticking *also* snuck into the little girls room.

-10: Reinette. Don't blink look around. Seriously though, this would realistically traumatize a child for life.

*NEW RULE* Take a drink any time something in a Moffat-written episode reminds you a little *too* much of something from another Moffat-written episode, (even if it comes later). Don't forget to take two more drinks, one for the Reinette/Amelia parallels in general, and another for the oddly specific coincidence of the Doctor meeting and befriending a little girl under the false pretense of being a public safety worker. So overall:
*TAKE THREE DRINKS*.

-Dammit Rose, why is it that Moffat seems to be the only one who knows how to write you like a human being? I can't even be mad at you for running off and trying to find the monster of the week when 10 just leaves you in the middle of danger. What the hell did he think you were going to do? You're even still being nice to Mickey.

-Oh and here's the scene where the Doctor comes back to what was a little girl only moments ago, only now she's all grown up, hot, and thinks the Doctor was her imaginary friend. At least he doesn't get handcuffed for his troubles this time.
(Probably don't drink for this one. It was already covered by the general Amelia/Rennette similarities, unless it's an absurdly specific story beat I won't triple dip.)

-Ok, *this* is an absurdly specific story bit. A now grown up woman met the Doctor for less than a day when she was a little girl, but he left such an impact on her in the short time that she considered him to be her imaginary friend. Now reunited, she finds herself romantically attracted to him and one of her first reactions is to kiss him- despite now having another romantic partner.
For that reason, *TAKE A DRINK.*

-There's an elephant in the room here, and I might as well tackle it sooner rather than later. Was Madame de Pompadour really an important enough of a historical figure to warrant such an enthusiastic reaction from 10? I didn't even know who Madame de Pompadour was before I first saw this episode, and I've learned nothing else about her since. So I decided to (very basically) look her up. Her own wiki article barely had anything interesting to say about her, but she has a subsection in the article of the king she ended up boinking. I highlighted the most interesting part of it.

Ok, so she was basically a dumb "attractive" (I'll assume that picture isn't a very good likeness) woman who gave the king mostly bad political advice that he actually listened to for some reason. I guess it's a good thing she picked at least one successful minister for Louis though after running off several of his former best.

Spoiler: Major Tangent, do not read.

My conclusion: Which thankfully will not impact the rest of this rantview in the slightest.
Even when you very specifically juxtapose the words "Pompadour" and "Royalty" together, Madame de Pompadour is not where my mind goes.

My mind goes to Elvis Presley, who wore a majestic (if maybe a bit ridiculous) pompadour at points of his life.

And he didn't need to fuck a king, he already was *The* King.

-10 Comes back to the clockwork ship and seems to be pissed that at Rose and Mickey have wandered off. Various Doctors over the years have expressed similar sentiments over their companions wandering off. Sometimes I sympathize with them, sometimes I don't. Sorry to say, this time it was entirely your fault 10.

-So 10 wanders the halls of the alien space ship and finds a horse. Right on.

He figures out how the horse got in through a large door and goes through to a courtyard where he spies on Reinette(whore1) and some other thot (whore2), both talking about how "sad" they are (and it's clear that they aren't actually sad) that the king's current mistress is about to die. The (w)h(or)eroine of this story then says that she "loves the king", and "can't wait to meet him."
whore2: Every woman in Paris knows your ambitions.
whore1/Reinette: Every woman in Paris shares them.

Spoiler: Me: Now I ain't sayin she's a gold digger...

But yeah, she's a gold digger.

-I like how when 10 meets back up with Rose and Mickey, he isn't actually mad at them for running off. I guess he realized his mistake. I know Jodie has been compared to 10 before, but if this was Jodie then the current year show would have gone out of its way to explain to Rose and Mickey why 13 was right in telling them to stay put, and they were worse than literal nazis for disobeying her orders.

-10 just called whore1 (don't worry, I'm not going to keep calling her that) "One of the most accomplished women who ever lived." I'm pressing X to doubt. Surely there must have been MANY women throughout history who did more than extra-martially fuck a king and give him bad advice...

-Ok, the line: "We did not have the parts," went from being funny, to stupid, to confusing and finally terrifying. Well done.

-10: It's back on the ship. Rose, take Mickey and Arthur. Get after it. Follow it. Don't approach it, just watch what it does.
Rose: Arthur?
10: Good name for a horse.
Rose: No, you're not keeping the horse.
10: I let you keep Mickey. Now go!
I laughed. But that was still technically shitting on Mickey for no reason. *TAKE A DRINK*

-This probably wasn't intentional, but 10 is channeling his inner Spock with a literal Vulcan mind meld. Don't think I forgot about Rose creaming her panties for Spock all throughout the last Moffat two-parter. *TAKE A DRINK*
Later, during the mind meld:
Reinette: Doctor. Doctor who? It's more than just a secret, isn't it?

Spoiler: Obligatory

-Ricky... -sigh- Ricky. What is this beta shit? You're trying to make your naturally jealous girlfriend angry over the fact that the Doctor has met other women, and for what? At least the clockwork frenchmen knock you both out for it. Still, *TAKE A DRINK*
-What's that Moffat, The Doctor Dances? *TAKE A DRINK*

-10 pretending to be almost as drunk as I am right now is actually of my favorite 10 moments that I totally forgot about. It's easily the best moment of the episode, and in the running for best moment of the series so far.

Let me count how many awesome things happen just in this 2 minute clip.

Spoiler: Counting

1. Rose is in mortal peril. (Ok, she doesn't really deserve this time, but I still remember the bullshit with Queen Victoria.)
2. Rose tries to make an intimidate/bluff check by mentioning the Daleks. Rolls a natural 1. Oof.
3. 10 stumbles in 'drunk' singing My Fair Lady.
4. With a tie on his head and sunglasses and a glass of wine in his hands.
5. Says that Rose sounds just like her mother when she bitches at him over it. (Yes!)
6. Goes off on a random tangent about how much he likes bananas. What is it with Moffat and bananas? Regardless, *TAKE A DRINK*
7. "You're Mister Thick Thick Thickity Thick Face from Thicktown, Thickania. And so's your dad."
8. While still pretending to be drunk, he explains the entire plan of the baddies of the week.
9. Surprise motherfuckers he wasn't drunk, and that isn't wine.
10. Shuts off all the other mechanical Frenchmen with the flip of a switch. A little bit convenient, but I'm ok with it. One of my favorite traits of the Doctor is that he isn't afraid to play the fool so his enemies will underestimate him.

-Not only does Rose *not* stare daggers at Reinette, she actually goes out of her way to comforts her when she really doesn't need to, just because it's something that a decent human being would do.
I'm just going to say it- If Rose Tyler had always been written this way, she might have been one of my favorite modern companions.
This is of course entirely out of character from how everyone else has written for her so far, and I shudder remembering how bad she's written later in the series, but for at least 3 episodes Rose Tyler is a good character.
I can't believe I'm saying this but- *GIVE BACK ONE DRINK*

-We're back to that opening scene of French people running away and screaming in terror... Sadly, this episode is no longer 100% historically accurate. (The scene still is though.)

-Ok, I get why the clockwork Frenchmen are kidnapping Reinette, why are they kidnapping Louis?

-Reinette: Such a commotion. Such distressing noise. Kindly remember that this is Versailles. This is the Royal Court, and we are French.
Me: You could have fooled me with that English accent er.. I mean, they know that they're French... That's why they're screaming in terror. Lol.
Reinette: I have seen your world, and I have no desire to set foot there again.
Clockwork Frenchman: We do not require your feet. -Pulls out a cutting tool-
I chuckled.

I did not however chuckle at 10 getting into a dick measuring contest with Louis XV.
-10 crashes through the wall (on that horse that he earlier compared Mickey to.)

10: Madame de Pompadour. You look younger every day.
Me: that's a weird thing for you to say at all, let alone the very first thing you say in this situation.
Louis XV: What the hell is going on?
Me: That's a totally reasonable question for you to ask Your Majesty, especially given everything you've just seen today.
Reinette: Oh. This is my lover, the King of France.
Me: Err.. huh? Your "lover" just asked a completely valid question that you know the answer to... And instead of answering him, you chose to explain to the random dude whom you've only met a handful of times, for maybe a grand total of an hour or two -over the course of your entire life-, why you're standing next to the King of France (Who I believe he met already offscreen during the whole dance bit.)
Let's be honest though, your connection to "the King of France" is the only reason why history even remembers you in the first place. So yeah, fuck you Rose Tyler sorry... bad habits, Reinette.
10: (condescendingly) Yeah? Well, I'm the Lord of Time.
Me: Right on Doctor, I mean... he wasn't even really talking to you, but your dick is *totally* bigger than the historical figure who didn't know that this shit was going to happen beforehand, and thus had no way of being prepared for it, even though Reinette totally could have warned him but didn't.
It isn't like he wouldn't have believed her either, history says he took her bad advice all the time.

I'm pretty sure this is the scene that soured me to this episode in the first place.

*NEW RULE* Take a drink any time 10 unnecessarily acts like a dick to somebody who didn't do anything to deserve it.

-I've made no secret that I'm not all that impressed with what I've seen of the real life Madame de Pompadour, but even I have to admit the version Sophia Myles played here was overall pretty interesting, even if I doubt it's very true to real life. She even had some decent chemistry with 10.
Fun fact which I'm sure somebody else will mention if I don't: Tennant and Myles actually started dating right around the time they filmed this episode.

-10: When the mirror broke, the shock would have severed all the links with the ship. There'll be a few more broken mirrors and torn tapestries around here, I'm afraid, wherever there was a time window. I'll pay for any damage. Er, that's a thought, I'm going to need money. I was always a bit vague about money. Where do you get money?
Me: I guess that explains why you gave that soyboy an infinite credit card last series. But it also begs the question of how you got an infinite credit card in the first place...

-This one made me angrier than it probably should have: The Doctor tells the female friend he first met when she was a little girl to pack her bags, he'll be right back and he's going to take her with him as a companion. He comes right back "a few minutes later" except years have passed. In Amelia's case she grew up into Amy. In Reinette's case she's fucking dead. *TAKE A FUCKING DRINK*

-King Louis XV: You know how women are...
Me: Yeah, sadly I do -_-

-Holy shit, this beats all... Rose is *still* acting sympathetic and comforting 10 when he's feeling down about Reinette dying before she could join the Tardis crew. There is no way in hell that Rose doesn't understand that 10 had feelings for her at this point, and yet she's still acting sympathetic to him. Mickey is even wise enough to realize that 10 might need some time alone, and so he asks her to show him the rest of the Tardis. Who are these people?

Spoiler: You're going to be told to take a drink if you read this.

-Oh I almost forgot, those clockwork Frenchmen are explicitly said to be related to that guy who 12 either convinced to kill himself, or pushed to his death when he first regenerated.

I wouldn't normally do this just because of recurring villains, but Moffat wrote both episodes, and this is the *only* other occurrence of this clockwork type of character in the 15ish years since. *TAKE ONE LAST DRINK MOTHERFUCKER*

I haven't lied to any of you yet, and I'm not about to start now. I was wrong about this episode. There were a couple of things I didn't like about it, but the good far outweighed the bad. Once again, Rose written by Moffat is a much better character than usual. Sadly this is the last time we're going to be seeing her.

This was easily the best episode so far this series. (And I know how bad it's about to get.)

I just watched the "next time" trailer, and recognized it as the two-parter where Mickey leaves the show. I honestly thought he had another episode or two before that, but I guess not.