Dragon Ball Thread - Includes Z and Super (and GT if you really want to talk about that); also includes Abridged

A Random

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I disagree. I get Goku's transformation at the end of the Frieza saga and I have no major problems with that, in spite of the precedence it set. I am however still unconvinced that the interactions between Goku and Gohan, their character development, the "lessons" for Gohan to learn and the theme of Goku trying to pass the torch to Gohan could have not been achieved without SSJ2, let alone introducing the tumor that is the "Super Saiyan bargain sale", to quote Vegeta.
Sure, it could work just by explicitly stating that Gohan has become more powerful than Goku.

Considering how it was retconned into being 'SSJ2' proper by the Buu saga, so to say [it wasn't really called that when Gohan first transformed I don't think], I think the reason why Toriyama did that is because Gohan's hair when transformed didn't have the same punch as Goku's, so when he decided to have Gohan go all out, he gave him the super sharp hairstyle with the loose bang... and had to explain WHY it had changed so much again.

It's easier to justify that change with it being a new form than it is otherwise, given what was already established [that Vegeta and Trunks had found new ways to use the power of the Super Saiyajin by increasing their muscle mass beyond its already increased size, but they hadn't changed their 'hair' enough].
 
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Fougaro

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Sure, it could work just by explicitly stating that Gohan has become more powerful than Goku.

Considering how it was retconned into being 'SSJ2' proper by the Buu saga, so to say [it wasn't really called that when Gohan first transformed I don't think], I think the reason why Toriyama did that is because Gohan's hair when transformed didn't have the same punch as Goku's, so when he decided to have Gohan go all out, he gave him the super sharp hairstyle with the loose bang... and had to explain WHY it had changed so much again.

It's easier to justify that change with it being a new form than it is otherwise, given what was already established [that Vegeta and Trunks had found new ways to use the power of the Super Saiyajin by increasing their muscle mass beyond its already increased size, but they hadn't changed their 'hair' enough].
What I'm trying to say is that much of the transformation tumor could have been avoided by having for example not only the original Super Saiyan transformation be the only transformation, but Goku (and Broly if you want to consider him canon) be the only character to go Super Saiyan at all. Whatever the results would be, they'd be more preferable than the cancer we got in the end with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (<- I still can't get over the fact that it's unironically a thing) or Super Saiyan Rosé etc.

Edit:
On a different note, has anyone watched their Unabridged yet?

It's as bad as you think.
 
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NeilBreenLover69

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I'm just gonna add, I stopped watching DBZA regularly after the Frieza saga, and when I saw that they made a fucking Dragon Ball-based Steven Universe song parody with its lyrics written in earnest, I knew the fucking end times were coming for the series, and judging by the finale of it, it really did become something far displaced from its original purpose. The comedy devolved from 2010s lulrandom internet meme humor to fucking rick and morty style meta reddit garbage with additional unneeded drama that wasn't even present in the original version.
It's like they genuinely thought that they could write Dragon Ball Z, but better. Yeah, totally, by shoving in shit like making Yajirobe and Korin into a gay interspecies couple and making typicaly dumbass furfag jokes like "LEL who's top and who's bottom LULLL", giving some longwinded stupid fucking serious "reason you suck" speech to Goku, shoving in stupid, unnecessary references to atheism, politics, and sexism, etc etc etc.
What a mess.
 

Fougaro

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I'm just gonna add, I stopped watching DBZA regularly after the Frieza saga, and when I saw that they made a fucking Dragon Ball-based Steven Universe song parody with its lyrics written in earnest, I knew the fucking end times were coming for the series, and judging by the finale of it, it really did become something far displaced from its original purpose. The comedy devolved from 2010s lulrandom internet meme humor to fucking rick and morty style meta reddit garbage with additional unneeded drama that wasn't even present in the original version.
It's like they genuinely thought that they could write Dragon Ball Z, but better. Yeah, totally, by shoving in shit like making Yajirobe and Korin into a gay interspecies couple and making typicaly dumbass furfag jokes like "LEL who's top and who's bottom LULLL", giving some longwinded stupid fucking serious "reason you suck" speech to Goku, shoving in stupid, unnecessary references to atheism, politics, and sexism, etc etc etc.
What a mess.
Dragon Ball Z Abridged pretty much went to shit after the end of the Frieza saga, just like the original series fittingly enough.

I did unironically enjoy Team Four Star in their earlier days and even appreciated some of the effort they put in their editing. That is until they turned the series from a high(er) quality gag dub done by some autists having fun, to a high production fanfic done by hacks with delusions of grandeur sucking Funimation's dick.
 

Guts Gets Some

Don't lose your way
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Dragon Ball Z Abridged pretty much went to shit after the end of the Frieza saga, just like the original series fittingly enough.

I did unironically enjoy Team Four Star in their earlier days and even appreciated some of the effort they put in their editing. That is until they turned the series from a high(er) quality gag dub done by some autists having fun, to a high production fanfic done by hacks with delusions of grandeur sucking Funimation's dick.
It went to shit during the final battle against the Saiyans for me.
 

X-Shaped Weeaboo

Not another anime avatar!
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Dragon Ball Z Abridged pretty much went to shit after the end of the Frieza saga, just like the original series fittingly enough.

I did unironically enjoy Team Four Star in their earlier days and even appreciated some of the effort they put in their editing. That is until they turned the series from a high(er) quality gag dub done by some autists having fun, to a high production fanfic done by hacks with delusions of grandeur sucking Funimation's dick.
Honestly, a big part of me feels like they went harder on "one-upsmanship" during the Cell saga because Little Kuriboh killed it as Freeza back in the day. Probably felt like they could do something similar and utterly fucked up in that regard. (No, Cell will never be as charming as Freeza no matter how many forced memes you stick on him.)
 

_01

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I'm just gonna add, I stopped watching DBZA regularly after the Frieza saga, and when I saw that they made a fucking Dragon Ball-based Steven Universe song parody with its lyrics written in earnest, I knew the fucking end times were coming for the series, and judging by the finale of it, it really did become something far displaced from its original purpose. The comedy devolved from 2010s lulrandom internet meme humor to fucking rick and morty style meta reddit garbage with additional unneeded drama that wasn't even present in the original version.
It's like they genuinely thought that they could write Dragon Ball Z, but better. Yeah, totally, by shoving in shit like making Yajirobe and Korin into a gay interspecies couple and making typicaly dumbass furfag jokes like "LEL who's top and who's bottom LULLL", giving some longwinded stupid fucking serious "reason you suck" speech to Goku, shoving in stupid, unnecessary references to atheism, politics, and sexism, etc etc etc.
What a mess.
DBZ:A really shone when it did what it said on the can: parody. Granted, a lot of their parody was trite observations the fandom already point out (Piccolo is like Gohan's dad, Goku is a bad father, Krillin is useless, and so on), but a lot of the gems stemmed from them exaggerating character traits or playfully mocking the source material. The musical numbers are painful, their "twists" on the story overstay their welcome quickly, and their tendency to edit the source material to sell a joke are often distracting. In particular, I don't mind them drawing over the animation for the sake of clarity or a better punchline, but it's incredibly obvious it's edited on because it's way cleaner than the fuzzy animation cells (which ironically would be fixed by just running it through a noise filter). The worst instance of this are edited eye movements which are smoothed when typically the source animation runs at a fraction of that frame rate, but now I'm just nitpicking.

As an example of their writing skills, a video I liked but I recall still skipping multiple moments through was the second Cooler movie. It was funny when it pointed out the obvious plot holes the original film had, like Goku asking Vegeta "when and how did you get here" because it isn't explained in the source footage. Not long after, they have a scene which pretty much plays out as in the original except it has the voice actor for Borderlands' claptrap character, and that's the joke, and it isn't amusing as much as it's tiresome. They play up the scene where Vegeta gets kicked in the nuts because it wasn't played for laughs in the original, that's funny. They have characters give one-liners about doing mammograms in order to culminate in a pig saying he does "hammograms," that's exasperating. Parody is a different beast than conventional comedy, perhaps because the natural formula of "set up and pay off" that jokes follow has half the work done in parody, because the set up is the source footage. Seldom when they write their own jokes, however, do they have actual set ups, it's just non-sequiturs or self-referential humor. Hence when they try their hands at a stand-alone comedy, where they need to actually preface their jokes, they clearly struggle.
 

Pokemonquistador2

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I'm just gonna add, I stopped watching DBZA regularly after the Frieza saga, and when I saw that they made a fucking Dragon Ball-based Steven Universe song parody with its lyrics written in earnest, I knew the fucking end times were coming for the series.
I felt the same way when they put a Hamilton song at the end of an episode of Hellsing Abridged. I thought "This is the gayest shit ever." and resolved never to watch another episode.
 
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X-Shaped Weeaboo

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I felt the same way when they put a Hamilton song at the end of an episode of Hellsing Abridged. I thought "This is the gayest shit ever." and resolved never to watch another episode.
How could they do my boi Alexander Anderson so wrong?

And that's not even mentioning the bastardization that happened with the Major and Walter.
 

capitalBBustard

Who is this man?
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I disagree. I get Goku's transformation at the end of the Frieza saga and I have no major problems with that, in spite of the precedence it set. I am however still unconvinced that the interactions between Goku and Gohan, their character development, the "lessons" for Gohan to learn and the theme of Goku trying to pass the torch to Gohan could have not been achieved without SSJ2, let alone introducing the tumor that is the "Super Saiyan bargain sale", to quote Vegeta.

As for the Buu saga, I'm sure you could have achieved a good subversion plot without introducing yet another SSJ form. Then again, at this point Dragon Ball was already past the Alien: Resurrection stage, so whatever.

Well the fandom is one of the things Dragon Ball has in common with Star Wars. I will agree that Team Four Star didn't do it any favours in the long run.
Don't look at it with the lense of us being post-Super's cancerous rainbow transformations. After the first tranformation, it is a very good idea to expand on the SS concept in the following arc. The first transformation worked, people liked it, and the concept has mileage. It's natural to follow up on it. Instead of a surprise it now became a goal, to go beyond SS. So it's not just the same exact thing again. The parallels being drawn between Goku and Gohan's transformation also helped reinforce/drive the character arcs.

Not for nothing, but if he didn't do SS2, he would've done something else that amounts to basically the same thing. Don't forget, Kaio-ken functioned as SS before SS, only it wasn't as striking visually or used as memorably. Gohan's potential unleashed transformation during Buu is just SS without a hair change. You were going to end up with powerups in that vein anyway. Sticking with one concept, in this case Super Saiyan, is more refreshing, and more pleasing because of how it nailed it the first time. And people were getting free boosts like crazy on Namek anyways. Bloodline healing power boosts, Namekian elder's potential power boosts, Namekian merger boosts. Funneling all the saiyans towards SS actually gave some structure to the strength gains, and cut down on all the instances and different varieties of convenient power ups.

Well the thing about SS3 is iirc it was actually pretty much thrown in there by Toriyama because he kinda didn't know what to do at that point. However, he did integrate it well, and served to further his arc's subversion of the prior arcs. See, at that point, after the SS1 and SS2 being the peaks of the prior 2 arcs, in the back of your mind you kinda expect the arc to end up working towards another SS form in the end, even though the fusion concept was introduced by Goku at that point. Throwing SS3 out there got ahead of any thought that it would be the endgame of the arc. So next you'd think either he's gonna jump straight to 4 in the same arc, which is lame, or yeah that's it for SS on its own for this arc. Fuck, bring on fusion then I guess, the viewer would say. And when it came back during the Kid Buu fight, it fizzled out, paving the way to the spirit bomb ending.

You're argument is a bit shallow in a sense, 'cause you can do anything with or without any specific plot point or element. What matters more if it was done well. SS2 was used to its fullest as a goal to work towards and a vehicle for character arcs. And the way SS3 was introduced and used well in its own arc's context and goals. Neither were to the detriment of their arcs or the series as a whole. Unlike Super.
 

Pokemonquistador2

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So..... is anyone watching Dragon Ball Heroes? Or is it such an obvious cash grab promotional product that everyone is pretty much pretending that it doesn't exist?
 

Clipper

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So..... is anyone watching Dragon Ball Heroes? Or is it such an obvious cash grab promotional product that everyone is pretty much pretending that it doesn't exist?
Pretty much, it's just ten minute advertisements. Only the most die hard of Dragon Ball fans are paying any attention to it.
 
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Kari Kamiya

"I beat her up, so I gave her a cuck-cup."
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So..... is anyone watching Dragon Ball Heroes? Or is it such an obvious cash grab promotional product that everyone is pretty much pretending that it doesn't exist?
My brother's been watching it, but I don't think he likes it all that much. Not sure, I asked him about it back when there were only eight episodes or something like that and he just shrugged.

I'm a completionist fuck, so I'll watch it eventually, I'm just waiting for it to be completed.
 

albertbrown26

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Are we still in agreement that Dragon Ball Z manga is better than the anime?
I tried watching Dragon Ball Super, but it felt like I was watching a Japanese sitcom mixed with action.

Also the original Dragon Ball is much better than the DBZ anime, which is obviously better than DBGT, which is 10x better than DBSuper. I always felt the series, just like Naruto, went on for a little too long.

Now I see the same DBZ fans of old trying to mesh with One Piece fans of today.

Yet there’s still no love for Bleach
 
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XYZpdq

fbi most wanted sskealeaton
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Quick off topic question: Is bleach any good? I heard some things here and there about it and I'm wondering if I should give it a look.
I knew a dude who was big on it. Never really a major interest of mine, sometimes I'd catch a few random eps if it was on my cable on-demand. Seems like a nice enough shonen-y thing.