Explain the appeal of Kojima games -

Notgoodwithusernames

My wife’s boyfriend is my son
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If you really break it down, Metal Gear Solid is also pretty scary because the idea of someone trying to circumvent nuclear treaties by a technicality (via a Rail Gun instead of a rocket) isn't far fetched at all. They probably wouldn't build it into a giant robot, but it's certainly something that a country could actually do.
Oh god I just had an idea: if Platinum ever makes a metal Gear Rising 2 The Main villain should be A resurrected Senator Armstrong. Only this time he's trooned out and wants to destroy America's enemies with Moon Rocks
 

Pissmaster General

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Oh god I just had an idea: if Platinum ever makes a metal Gear Rising 2 The Main villain should be A resurrected Senator Armstrong. Only this time he's trooned out and wants to destroy America's enemies with Moon Rocks
I don't really follow Kojima but if you told me that was gonna happen in MGR2, I'd believe you.
 

anti SJW

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I like the first MGS for PS1 back in the day.

Then I played I think the first MGS for PS3. It had like a 15 minute opening cut scene. That was ok, I knew games by him were like that and they needed to establish stuff. After the cut scene ended and you could control Snake, you move him for like 5 feet and another long cut scene happens. Then you got to move him 10 feet, and another scene, this went on for like the first hour.

I stopped playing after that. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie. I wanted to play a game.
 

Secret Asshole

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I know its Rand Paul, but Kojima's popular because he basically invented, perfected and evolved the stealth action game. The man literally created a genre, so people will always respect him for that.

In terms of story-telling, this will be quite unpopular....Kojima cannot tell one. At all. 90% of his beats are lengthy monologues and pure exposition. His 'insightful' moments come at random, schizophrenic times often after exposition that makes little to no sense. He cannot express decent ideas via game-play unless its through cut-scenes which sometimes level thirty minutes to an hour. His sense of pacing is frankly, fucking abysmal. People like this because its 'quirky' but even the most absurdist anime nonsense will tell a story better than Kojima can. Its basically a meme that he makes no sense (its not a meme, its true. He hides the fact that most of his shit is trash through absurdist, trolling and fucking with the audience). I mean, you can buy into the 'oh kojima' meme all you want, but other people who do the exact same thing as Kojima get an insane amount of shit. I think he's just utter trash at this point.

Kojima does not do metaphor. If he does a metaphor, he will agonizingly, achingly explain this to you in a way where people do not talk. I mean, sorry guys, its just fucking bad. He's got two devices: the monologue and the exposition. And that's it. Frankly, I think the medium of gaming story-telling has left Kojima far behind. Kojima is still operating when story-telling in gaming was in its infancy and he hasn't really evolved to compensate. He's still leaning on the crutch where games had simplistic stories and he was the most 'comprehensive', whereas most gaming narratives today are far tighter, better structured, more competently delivered and better paced than anything Kojima offers. All he's got left is his absurdisims, which for me, the novelty has fully worn off. I mean, people say he wrote good characters, but all of his protagonists from 1-3 were basically completely clueless and had to be explained in lengthy detail what the fuck was going on. Other characters like 'Vamp' who was a vampire, 'the end' who was an old man, like their literal names were their personalities. Even 'The Boss', she had to explain to you what she was doing. You never really figure it out for yourself, learn through it, she just out and out tells you. It kind of frustrates me that pure exposition can replace good character writing. Like, exposition as much as Kojima does is bad writing. You should not have to do this to get your stories and characters across and yet he does and is celebrated for it.

I'm sorry, but Kojima isn't free from the constraints of good story-telling and doesn't get to flout them because of nostalgia or because he's 'quirky Japanese man'.

MGS 1 was basically inventing a new genre. Its story was inventive and some of its mechanics were cool (Psycho mantis 'mind reading' your memory card and shit like that).

MGS 2 was basically his apex in terms of absurdist story-telling. I think for a post-modernist, disjointed story, it works. Though for me, its the only one besides 3 that works. I also think its story is garbage and basically worked on accident, based on the sheer amount of shit he through at the wall and got extremely lucky with it. It also helped that games with story at that time sucked a lot.

MGS 3 is a decent mix of story and gameplay and his more 'grounded' affair. Personally, the emotional content of MGS 3 gets too bogged down with Kojima's absurdist shit and humor. I think if he could have scaled this back, it would have hit harder, but Kojima himself is very self indulgent, so not possible.

MGS 4 was a clusterfuck.

MGS 5 is great from a gameplay perspective, but is weakest in the series story-wise, due to relying on an expensive Hollywood actor for your main character and as well as creative interruption from Konami. It has the highest replayability and fuck-around value of any MGS game.

Death Stranding is utter self indulgent trash and proves to me why Kojima: 1) Needs an editor and 2) His brand of story-telling doesn't compete with modern games. I don't think he's evolved as an artist as he's still relying on exposition and monologues to carry him. 3) He'd really rather be writing movies.

Kojima himself has an EXTREMELY cultish fan-base who will probably cry out at my death for this. I used to like Kojima a lot when I was a kid because there really wasn't much like him. But then I learned his 'mystery' was hiding his intentions in 40 hour cut scenes, trying to confuse you and pretend to be genius. I got tired of his arrogant mystery bullshit of endless exposition and monologues and realized it for what it was: Coping.

Even in this thread, you can see people going back to MGS 2 and 3 where he functionally had no competition. Once you see that competition amping up, the view on his quality craters. I seriously think that Kojima can only be viewed as 'good' in a historical context. Because I don't see anyone running to his modern offerings.
 

c-no

Duck
True & Honest Fan
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For people trying to make it sound like video games are more than kids toys, it's all the 2deep4u shit Kojima puts in his games such as information control in MGS 2. For those that just want to enjoy the games, it's being able to sneak around like a cheeky bastard.

Not gonna lie, I enjoy the MGS series but it's more for the gameplay aspect than any of the story offered by the games. And beyond the story, I'd remember the characters more for some of the weird and wacky shit there is such as the Pain weaponizing bees and Quiet being a bikini sniper that admittedly was a good ally since she provided cover fire. My reaction to the cutscenes however tended to pressing X or an equivalent just to skip cutscenes and get on to the scene. I know I'm missing out on story telling but I'm the sort of person who gets most of his enjoyment from playing the game directly than watching cutscenes and the story.
 
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John Titor

Pronouns: time/temporal/tempself
kiwifarms.net
I know its Rand Paul, but Kojima's popular because he basically invented, perfected and evolved the stealth action game. The man literally created a genre, so people will always respect him for that.

In terms of story-telling, this will be quite unpopular....Kojima cannot tell one. At all. 90% of his beats are lengthy monologues and pure exposition. His 'insightful' moments come at random, schizophrenic times often after exposition that makes little to no sense. He cannot express decent ideas via game-play unless its through cut-scenes which sometimes level thirty minutes to an hour. His sense of pacing is frankly, fucking abysmal. People like this because its 'quirky' but even the most absurdist anime nonsense will tell a story better than Kojima can. Its basically a meme that he makes no sense (its not a meme, its true. He hides the fact that most of his shit is trash through absurdist, trolling and fucking with the audience). I mean, you can buy into the 'oh kojima' meme all you want, but other people who do the exact same thing as Kojima get an insane amount of shit. I think he's just utter trash at this point.

Kojima does not do metaphor. If he does a metaphor, he will agonizingly, achingly explain this to you in a way where people do not talk. I mean, sorry guys, its just fucking bad. He's got two devices: the monologue and the exposition. And that's it. Frankly, I think the medium of gaming story-telling has left Kojima far behind. Kojima is still operating when story-telling in gaming was in its infancy and he hasn't really evolved to compensate. He's still leaning on the crutch where games had simplistic stories and he was the most 'comprehensive', whereas most gaming narratives today are far tighter, better structured, more competently delivered and better paced than anything Kojima offers. All he's got left is his absurdisims, which for me, the novelty has fully worn off. I mean, people say he wrote good characters, but all of his protagonists from 1-3 were basically completely clueless and had to be explained in lengthy detail what the fuck was going on. Other characters like 'Vamp' who was a vampire, 'the end' who was an old man, like their literal names were their personalities. Even 'The Boss', she had to explain to you what she was doing. You never really figure it out for yourself, learn through it, she just out and out tells you. It kind of frustrates me that pure exposition can replace good character writing. Like, exposition as much as Kojima does is bad writing. You should not have to do this to get your stories and characters across and yet he does and is celebrated for it.

I'm sorry, but Kojima isn't free from the constraints of good story-telling and doesn't get to flout them because of nostalgia or because he's 'quirky Japanese man'.

MGS 1 was basically inventing a new genre. Its story was inventive and some of its mechanics were cool (Psycho mantis 'mind reading' your memory card and shit like that).

MGS 2 was basically his apex in terms of absurdist story-telling. I think for a post-modernist, disjointed story, it works. Though for me, its the only one besides 3 that works. I also think its story is garbage and basically worked on accident, based on the sheer amount of shit he through at the wall and got extremely lucky with it. It also helped that games with story at that time sucked a lot.

MGS 3 is a decent mix of story and gameplay and his more 'grounded' affair. Personally, the emotional content of MGS 3 gets too bogged down with Kojima's absurdist shit and humor. I think if he could have scaled this back, it would have hit harder, but Kojima himself is very self indulgent, so not possible.

MGS 4 was a clusterfuck.

MGS 5 is great from a gameplay perspective, but is weakest in the series story-wise, due to relying on an expensive Hollywood actor for your main character and as well as creative interruption from Konami. It has the highest replayability and fuck-around value of any MGS game.

Death Stranding is utter self indulgent trash and proves to me why Kojima: 1) Needs an editor and 2) His brand of story-telling doesn't compete with modern games. I don't think he's evolved as an artist as he's still relying on exposition and monologues to carry him. 3) He'd really rather be writing movies.

Kojima himself has an EXTREMELY cultish fan-base who will probably cry out at my death for this. I used to like Kojima a lot when I was a kid because there really wasn't much like him. But then I learned his 'mystery' was hiding his intentions in 40 hour cut scenes, trying to confuse you and pretend to be genius. I got tired of his arrogant mystery bullshit of endless exposition and monologues and realized it for what it was: Coping.

Even in this thread, you can see people going back to MGS 2 and 3 where he functionally had no competition. Once you see that competition amping up, the view on his quality craters. I seriously think that Kojima can only be viewed as 'good' in a historical context. Because I don't see anyone running to his modern offerings.
What's your opinion on Peace Walker? I found that to have a good balance of story and gameplay. You have cutscenes that are relevant to the stage you're playing while the exposition and banter stuff was framed as looking through an archive you can check outside of gameplay and is for the most part optional.

I agree on the Hollywood obsession. Not just Kojima, all developers. Having Danny Trejo in New Vegas was cool but if these celebrity cameos are going to cost a lot, then it's not fucking worth it.
 

Secret Asshole

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What's your opinion on Peace Walker? I found that to have a good balance of story and gameplay. You have cutscenes that are relevant to the stage you're playing while the exposition and banter stuff was framed as looking through an archive you can check outside of gameplay and is for the most part optional.

I agree on the Hollywood obsession. Not just Kojima, all developers. Having Danny Trejo in New Vegas was cool but if these celebrity cameos are going to cost a lot, then it's not fucking worth it.
I thought Peacewalker was ok. Its definitely one of his most grounded games and I think a lot of that has to do with the format. Its kind of hard to go crazy on a mobile format. And on a mobile format you naturally need more gameplay, so he was kind of forced into it. The man needs really, heavy editorial control.

But he's never going to get it, because he's 'super mega genius'. I think collaborators who are equivalent in pull with Kojima would also help. So Guillermo Del Toro being there would have probably made Silent Hills good. I do not think he'll view Death Stranding as a learning experience and will continue with his self-indulgent bullshit.
 
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Pissmaster General

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Death Stranding is utter self indulgent trash and proves to me why Kojima: 1) Needs an editor and 2) His brand of story-telling doesn't compete with modern games. I don't think he's evolved as an artist as he's still relying on exposition and monologues to carry him. 3) He'd really rather be writing movies.
...huh. I wonder if Silent Hills was shaping up to be garbage after all. The world treated it as though it was the messiah of gaming that never was.

P.T. was pretty cool on its own, but it was so short and left so much up to the imagination that I don't think Silent Hills could have ever met expectations. Plus, even P.T. had jump scares, which are to horror as bottom shelf vodka is to alcohol.
 
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MrTroll

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MGS appeals to people who don't have gud enough reflexes to play a real game and are too dumb to follow the plot of a real movie. So pressing a button every 10 minutes in order to watch a couple of faggots scream at each other about giant anime robots is right up their alley.
 

John Titor

Pronouns: time/temporal/tempself
kiwifarms.net
...huh. I wonder if Silent Hills was shaping up to be garbage after all. The world treated it as though it was the messiah of gaming that never was.

P.T. was pretty cool on its own, but it was so short and left so much up to the imagination that I don't think Silent Hills could have ever met expectations. Plus, even P.T. had jump scares, which are to horror as bottom shelf vodka is to alcohol.
I heard that he didn't feel up to the task of making an SH, which would explain why he recruited Del Toro. I think he was more interested in the technical aspects than the story.
 

XYZpdq

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I only played MGS1-3, fucked around with MG2 for like five minutes, never touched his VNs.
I like the tacticool hide-and-go-seek-and-then-kill-them. Also I generally like his weird Trash American Military SciFi (Japan nerd remix) syle.
 

Tanner Glass

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I would also say that Kojima games (for good or bad) are really in thier own category.

A lot of games you can just describe as "it's like X with Y" - like Jedi : Fallen Order is like Dark Souls with Star Wars shit, or that Nioh is Dark Souls with Samurai Shit - and so on.

You can't really do that with Kojima games, because what the fuck could you compare Death Stranding to? Maybe other Kojima games, like MGS, but even then not really. It's also kind of hard to compare the games to one another (for example, MGS3 is pretty different than MGS4).
 
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