Emperor Julian
kiwifarms.net
Saw the video its arguement implodes when you realize they're trying to apply a universal template to story telling. which i'd say is lazy and sloppy if I wasnt convinced they're arguing in bad faith.
Extra Credits - leftie gaming channel that had two of its members accused of "misconduct" in only 2 months
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Sister services, email, and search will continue to be negatively effected by the attacks. I made a thread to talk about it, if you're into networking.
Saw the video its arguement implodes when you realize they're trying to apply a universal template to story telling. which i'd say is lazy and sloppy if I wasnt convinced they're arguing in bad faith.
Sounds incredibly similar to that other dumb video they made about playing as a Nazi.
Which means they learned nothing.
Nazis have replaced Satan in the modern world.
and the "seven deadly phobias and isms" have replaced the seven deadly sins
racism
transphobia
sexism
homophobia
xenophobia
islamophobia
ableism
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Becomemysoulreaver
kiwifarms.net
Extra Credits are still around? I thought they were killed in zanzibar
For real tho, is anyone still watching this faggots? other than hate watching that is
For real tho, is anyone still watching this faggots? other than hate watching that is
I figure if they can't even be bothered to research a video game before talking about it, they probably aren't a trustworthy source on history either.
I don’t consider them to be trustworthy at all when it comes to history. I use it as background noise
Alter Ego
kiwifarms.net
It's a wonder why the guest writer James Mendezs Hodes (who seems to have been on the "orcs are racist" train before it was cool) even mentions 40k over other game IPs he could've cited when it appears that his 40k knowledge, explicitly including expanded fiction from novels and tabletop RPGs, is purely second-hand. Why not instead elaborate on how the Goombas of Super Mario Bros. and the demons of DOOM support the thesis that evil races are bad game design?
Speaking of which, there's something I'd like to point out about this video broadly:
Did anyone else notice that despite this stated pitch, the whole of the video has little to do with game design and is just more of the same moral agony over narrative? The closest it gets to the point of game design is brief and unconvincing:
But why do you need any further explanation? If the game is of combat and needs a simple, yet morally-good reason for the player to fight the opposition, why isn't it suffice to say that the opposition would otherwise do harm to you, your kind, and your world? It doesn't matter what the underlying motive of said opposition is or whether they're human, robot, orc, or alien. The pure, instinctual motivation provides enough reason to play the game. To elaborate further can be fine, but that's now a matter of narrative, not game design, that may be unnecessarily consuming the developer's resources better put elsewhere. It is not strictly bad for something to be simple.
Apparently, Extra Credits takes the view that story comes before gameplay as a general rule when it comes to games, requiring any violent conflict to be justified with a complex player-choice morality system and encyclopedia of backstory like Mass Effect and Fallout.
Because he was trying to make somewhat of a point that the Imperium paints all aliens with the belief that they are evil to prevent defiance from Imperial rule, but it fails when the tabletop factions are explicitly a threat to humanity and especially the orks, who would probably be offended if someone suggested that they could be anything but violent.
Though another reason he chose 40k is because the books he flashed up were from Robert Rath, who has done some writing for Extra Credits. And the guy has written some entertaining 40k, so either the writer for this episode didn’t consult him or just misinterpreted what he said.
Emperor Julian
kiwifarms.net
I mean if we're talking Warhammer one of the best factions is the Skaven and the fact they have absolutly no positive traits is what makes them so balls to the walls awsome. They're so evil it makes them really fucking stupid and hiliarious.
Funny because the Orks are a tongue-in-cheek joke on lower class British whites.
NOooooO tHats cLassIsT
vulgar
kiwifarms.net
Orks just represent the violent/uncouth brute. Really, the green skin is in the eye of the beholder.
Extra Credits views green skinned Orks as black skinned humans because they’re Americans and White Americans view Blacks like that, even the “liberal” ones.
you can paint many people with green skin, EC chose Blacks because of course they did
They have a specific regional dialect of low-class British English (cockney usually) as their accent, and promotional material used to make them look like football hooligans. Extra Credits might be too retarded to look it up on wikipedia, but it still is unironically an unflattering depiction of white Britons.
FTFY. I don't like being lumped in with racist retards any more than a black man likes being lumped in with hood-rat niggers.
And seriously, I cannot believe how these asshats can seriously suggest "orcs are an analogue to black people" without being pilloried by their contemporaries. It's absurd. I'd make the joke that it's like calling "King Kong" racist, but they already tried doing that.
Alter Ego
kiwifarms.net
James Mendezs Hodes' 40k example failing to support the guest writer's preceding argument makes it all the more puzzling as to why he even picked that example to begin with. Lets go over that particular segment:
So with the foolish notion that it is morally good to play nice with something that just wants you dead, Hodes' argument is that a game's inherently-evil enemies that seek to harm the player no matter what are "blocking the player from further becoming a part of [the game world]." This is to explain why evil races are bad game design. He then brings up 40k to exemplify, but his rationale to cite the game IP as bad design falls apart in a couple of major ways.
First, the 40k novels and RPGs that Hodes broadly mentions are ultimately supplement to the core tabletop wargame, optional reading material for those already well-invested in the hobby and its setting. And even so, I imagine that such hobbyists will usually only read just a small fraction of what Black Library has to offer, focusing on stories that feature the factions they personally collect or otherwise like. For the most part, however, most casual hobbyists will be content with the broad world-building fiction provided by the game rulebooks and codices specific to the factions they collect, otherwise wiki-diving when they want to know more besides. In fact, it is outright unreasonable to expect a hobbyist to have acquired and digested the codex of a faction that is strictly an opponent to him because he doesn't collect it. The typical hobbyist is perfectly fine with the surface-level reason for why his faction would do battle with the other. And with Games Workshop handling the 40k tabletop game and its fiction in this manner for decades, it has long beaten its competitors and even been seeing huge growth over the past half-decade, so how is it an example of bad game design?
Second, from my experience with the expanded 40k fiction relayed by novels and RPGs (about a couple dozen, I'd say), what the writers says about aliens having moral nuance isn't even meaningfully true. The alien factions represented in the tabletop game especially are still all depicted as certain threats to humanity, the galaxy at large being a dark, hostile place with the Imperium of Man being besieged at all sides. Sure, there may be a few one-off examples of aliens that aren't an apparent danger such as the Kinebrach of the Interex as featured in the novel Horus Rising (though their harboring of a Chaos demon weapon in a museum is suspicious), but such aliens are few and incredibly insignificant to the galactic-scale setting and care of the hobbyists.
I was actually wondering why those Necron stories in particular were highlighted in the video since, from what I've heard about them before, they only go to show that the sentient rulers of the Necrons are indeed callously evil. It's news to me, then, that the author Robert Rath is actually on the Extra Credits staff. In light of this information, I think I now understand. I highly doubt that Hodes even meant to highlight any particular 40k stories. Rather, I suspect it was the choice of the video editor to throw up a graphic matching that line in the script, and in being equally ignorant of 40k fiction, he just went with showing works by Rath because the editor knew his coworker has written for Games Workshop. If Rath was ever consulted on this decision, he was probably just happy with the publicity. Twitter queries don't indicate to me that Hodes and Rath are personally acquainted.
For further research into Hodes' familiarity with 40k, I looked into how much he has spoken about it previously, and there doesn't appear to be much. The second part of his 2019 "Orcs, Britons, And The Martial Race Myth" article linked to in the Extra Credits video description says this:
He subsequently elaborated a little further on Twitter:
With this being all I could find on his regard towards 40k (other common keywords turn up nothing on his Twitter account), I can only surmise that Hodes is not personally familiar with the game IP, only regurgitating the simple points he heard from others about Orks (they're spore-grown football hooligans) mainly because they're a blatant counterpoint to his general war against fantasy orcs. And as you can see, even though he doesn't have the in-depth knowledge to call their depiction racist (don't tell him about the Snakebite Klan and the Savage Orcs of Warhammer Fantasy), he ultimately thinks Orks are still unacceptable.
So why did Hodes mention 40k at all when it's unfamiliar to him and does a poor job of aiding his argument that evil races are bad game design? My guess is that he was just looking for an means to complain about 40k no matter what, coinciding with his social circle of internet "cultural critics" long having a bone to pick with 40k because they believe it to be harboring "bad fans." Like how they've been tearing down D&D and tabletop RPGs broadly for years over orc racism and other such nonsense, they want to similarly target 40k, and the mention of 40k in this video provides that avenue: evil races are racist -> 40k has evil races -> 40k is racist
Falcos_Commisar
kiwifarms.net
I stopped watching their history when that one guy with the squeaky voice stopped being a thing a long time ago. Was he some kind of sex pest?
You mean Dan? I think he stop because he got tired of it. He is doing something else now.
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