Fallout series -

vertexwindi

Diddy in space, even though he's not
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Will we ever have a fallout game based on Australia? Imagine resisted emus, Tasmanian devils and cassowaries.
While that sounds cool as shit Bethesda doesn't like sticking away from formulas, so no, we won't. I'll file that idea in my list of super cool game ideas I'll make if I ever become a millionaire though, but it's unlikely.
 

samuraicrack

General Coughing Cyborg Man
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Might as well post some of the other tweets because it’s stirred up some discussion.

here’s the OP btw:

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and the replies:

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HeyYou

seriousposter
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c-no

Duck
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Might as well post some of the other tweets because it’s stirred up some discussion.

here’s the OP btw:

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and the replies:

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In all seriousness, how would Fallout even be considered leftist? I get the whole exceptionalism Bethesda made use of since 3 and the second game giving you the President of the United States as a major antagonist but beyond all the fluff and such, not many if any of the games made any wing of ideology good beyond one ending in one of the games saying "isolationism was a kick in the nuts" for one faction.

One may as well just make the "cool wasteland" meme but turn it around to make the people sperging over the themes being of some inherent political wing and the like no better in the tism just because they think that they get why the work was made for or in reference to, they somehow know better than others such as with Fallout and Warhammer 40k. Sometimes, people really do see cool wasteland beyond "war is bad" and knowing that despite how shitty the Imperium is, you got "SPESS MUHREENS."
 

Overcast

Perfection has no age
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In all seriousness, how would Fallout even be considered leftist? I get the whole exceptionalism Bethesda made use of since 3 and the second game giving you the President of the United States as a major antagonist but beyond all the fluff and such, not many if any of the games made any wing of ideology good beyond one ending in one of the games saying "isolationism was a kick in the nuts" for one faction.

One may as well just make the "cool wasteland" meme but turn it around to make the people sperging over the themes being of some inherent political wing and the like no better in the tism just because they think that they get why the work was made for or in reference to, they somehow know better than others such as with Fallout and Warhammer 40k. Sometimes, people really do see cool wasteland beyond "war is bad" and knowing that despite how shitty the Imperium is, you got "SPESS MUHREENS."
I mean, in 2 you had a joke where the Vice President saying "I'm not part of the problem, I'm Republican!" With the Chosen One replying, "Like I said, part of the problem."

Of course, this was probably back when the Left wasn't as batshit insane as it is now.

Other than that though yeah, I don't think stuff like stopping a madman from turning people into mutants, committing genocide via a virus, or enslaving people and using them as slaves is inherently an issue that's left or right leaning, it's just being a decent person looking out for your fellow man. If anything, something like the exceptionalism regarding political stances is probably part of what caused the Nuclear War to begin with.
 

samuraicrack

General Coughing Cyborg Man
kiwifarms.net
In all seriousness, how would Fallout even be considered leftist? I get the whole exceptionalism Bethesda made use of since 3 and the second game giving you the President of the United States as a major antagonist but beyond all the fluff and such, not many if any of the games made any wing of ideology good beyond one ending in one of the games saying "isolationism was a kick in the nuts" for one faction.

One may as well just make the "cool wasteland" meme but turn it around to make the people sperging over the themes being of some inherent political wing and the like no better in the tism just because they think that they get why the work was made for or in reference to, they somehow know better than others such as with Fallout and Warhammer 40k. Sometimes, people really do see cool wasteland beyond "war is bad" and knowing that despite how shitty the Imperium is, you got "SPESS MUHREENS."
It's almost like any political themes/messages you might get from the franchise take a backseat to letting the player decide what's best for the world. You know, like a roleplaying game, or something.

Also everyone knows Liberty Prime and Warhammer are satirical and O-T-T, it's just that no one cares because the former still makes commies seethe unironically and the latter is still fun in how batshit insane it is.
 

Burned Man

Trans-Legion burnedgender Mormankin
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Wait I'm supposed to be lamenting how bad capitalism and war are while I'm running around turning people into chunky salsa with my alien blaster while looting and eating corpses?

The core of Fallout is about looting as much as possible to amass as many caps as possible to buy as destructive weapons as possible to destroy as many people that get in your way as possible as your force your will on others as much as possible. Just by playing the game it seems like you are guilty of everything you are meant to be against.


I also like how that one person talking about cyberpunk and chuds missing the point about dehumanizing and becoming commodities but declaring the dick chick ad as being to far.
 

c-no

Duck
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I mean, in 2 you had a joke where the Vice President saying "I'm not part of the problem, I'm Republican!" With the Chosen One replying, "Like I said, part of the problem."

Of course, this was probably back when the Left wasn't as batshit insane as it is now.

Other than that though yeah, I don't think stuff like stopping a madman from turning people into mutants, committing genocide via a virus, or enslaving people and using them as slaves is inherently an issue that's left or right leaning, it's just being a decent person looking out for your fellow man. If anything, something like the exceptionalism regarding political stances is probably part of what caused the Nuclear War to begin with.
Considering all the autism people get wrapped in as they try to own libtards and conservatards, one may as well say "the Master is leftist" just because he wanted unity and equality in the form of turning people in super mutants. What may as well make the whole political leaning thing ridiculous is trying to push that shit further beyond what a faction is suppose to be and represent. BOS isn't leaning left or right beyond just wanting to hoard tech and whatever branch it is that responds to outsiders.

It's almost like any political themes/messages you might get from the franchise take a backseat to letting the player decide what's best for the world. You know, like a roleplaying game, or something.

Also everyone knows Liberty Prime and Warhammer are satirical and O-T-T, it's just that no one cares because the former still makes commies seethe unironically and the latter is still fun in how batshit insane it is.
Don't forget that Liberty Prime is a robot that says fuck you by throwing nukes. Even for all the jingoism and such, Liberty Prime is memorable simply for how he cuts a bloody swathe for the brotherhood.

Wait I'm supposed to be lamenting how bad capitalism and war are while I'm running around turning people into chunky salsa with my alien blaster while looting and eating corpses?

The core of Fallout is about looting as much as possible to amass as many caps as possible to buy as destructive weapons as possible to destroy as many people that get in your way as possible as your force your will on others as much as possible. Just by playing the game it seems like you are guilty of everything you are meant to be against.


I also like how that one person talking about cyberpunk and chuds missing the point about dehumanizing and becoming commodities but declaring the dick chick ad as being to far.
Don't forget: the core of Fallout was also solving the problems in more than one way. Why bother wasting ammo on a final boss when you can talk him down or why bother trying to convince a man to open the door when you could just sneak around and get inside the place he is trying to guard.

Also saying capitalism is why the nuclear war happened feels a bit like a bias since the game doesn't establish who launched the bombs and that either the US or China are to blame, not that it matters to wastelanders since they got more important shit to deal with, such as dealing with junkie raiders and deathclaws breaking onto the farms and killing all the two headed cows. Then again, one can assume a lot of people are just going to put their own biases and say the game has to literally be some sort of adoration or condemnation.
 

Chive Turkey

kiwifarms.net
In all seriousness, how would Fallout even be considered leftist? I get the whole exceptionalism Bethesda made use of since 3 and the second game giving you the President of the United States as a major antagonist but beyond all the fluff and such, not many if any of the games made any wing of ideology good beyond one ending in one of the games saying "isolationism was a kick in the nuts" for one faction.
The whole 'futuristic jingoist 50s America' thing was clearly intended as an answer for themes they had conceived earlier in development. It explained how the war started in the first place, and helped introduce the atompunk, vaults, shady military experiments and other unique narrative in a game that otherwise might as well have renamed itself 'Mad Max: California'.

People forget that the whole 50s thing was really invented by Bethesda because they're creatively bankrupt. It really didn't play a part in 1, or even 2. The people wore leather singlets and had mohawks, they weren't dressed like the cast of Mad Men. They lived in newly-constructed adobe huts, rather than bombed-out old houses with radios and shit. While I don't really mind the route Bethesda has taken, it is a fact that the pre-war culture stuff was originally just a barely glimpsed-at backdrop for the actual story.
 

garakfan69

Please be patient, I have idiocy
kiwifarms.net
People forget that the whole 50s thing was really invented by Bethesda because they're creatively bankrupt.
I wouldn't say they invented it, it was an element that was always there. Just much more subdued and in the background.
Even in Fallout 1; pre-war tech had tubes, cars had 50s design, lots of Art Deco (though that's more 30s), etc..
Even the idea to use 50s songs is straight from Fallout 1's intro:
Which Fallout 3 ripped off:

Bethesda just took that element and ran it into the ground like they do with everything.
 

Overcast

Perfection has no age
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Can you imagine something like Liberty Prime in the Isometric games? God that would be fun to watch.
 

Peasant

kiwifarms.net
I mean, in 2 you had a joke where the Vice President saying "I'm not part of the problem, I'm Republican!" With the Chosen One replying, "Like I said, part of the problem."
It's an autistic nitpick, but that line is probably meant more to refer to the Vice President's lack of introspection, given that it doesn't make a lick of sense for a far-future tribal to know or give a shit about American political parties.
 

ThinkThankThunk

No longer huffing gamer girl farts due to COVID-19
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I'm still enamored by those big brain Twitter takes. Even if you want to over think things and wring blood from a stone trying to draw parallels about Communism and Capitalism through the Great War, the only conclusion someone who really knows their lore should come to is that a communist system simply can't compete with the American market over time.

It was China who shot first. It's referenced in the military logs in earlier games, but in the off-map missile silos in 4 it's made explicit. The U.S. had won - we know they had taken back Alaska and they were beginning to deploy power armor teams in mainland China, plus we can infer from New Vegas's memorials that they had occupied the Gobi Desert and begun penetrating the Yangtze River basin. What did China have at that point? A rock in San Francisco Bay and a few splinter cells around Maryland? Throughout the series you're shown countless companies who competed with each other for contracts and market share, all with their own technological innovations to show for it. What had the Chinese developed to counter the products of Vault-Tek, West-Tek, or Rob-Co? A stealth suit and an outdated submarine. Whoo-hoo. It's analogous to the Cold War, where all the U.S. had to do once the U.S.S.R. stood down on their threats of nuclear war was wait for them to starve themselves of resources and promptly collapse. The series, if anything, makes the point that communism can only win at the bad end of a nuke.

Hell, you can even draw further parallels with authoritarian factions that aren't Chinese. The Enclave spent 150 years improving their weapons and defences, only to get kicked over by a spear-chucking savage who only had the people of the world at their disposal. Neither the Legion nor the N.C.R. can get a good handle on Southern Nevada because they're too large and inefficient, and that's with a functional hydro dam and robot army to incentivize them to get their shit together. If you really want to take any underlying political meaning from the lore it's the libertarian idea of an agile free market being superior to any amount of dictatorial pressure.
 

HeyYou

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The message that I get from the series is that ideology is often just a mask for tribalism, that's the point behind the "war never changes" message. Ultimately, the US and China were starving dogs protecting their turf, it wasn't any more complicated than that. The games definitely often seem to lean towards libertarian ideals, but at the same time Lonesome Road makes the point that tribalism (or at least finding a home to invest in) can be a good thing. The entire theme behind the DLC is that Ulysses finally found some measure of peace in Ashton, and the Courier came and fucked that up by accidentally blowing up the town and never looking back, because that's the nature of wanderers who never get attached to anything. Honest Hearts deals with the same message, and at no point does the game heavily chide you for choosing to drive the White-Legs out of Zion, which might as well be one of the most nationalistic and tribal choices you can make in the series. The DLC goes to great lengths to let you determine for yourself if this way of thinking is sometimes justified.
 

ThinkThankThunk

No longer huffing gamer girl farts due to COVID-19
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Of course that's the actual theme of the series, I'm simply splitting hairs and playing devil's advocate for the Twitter thread which clearly had that lost on them. The real point of the Great War background is that it doesn't matter. Almost nobody in the post-war world knows what China or the U.S. are, at best they're obtuse scribbles on old buildings. Even with all of the evidence of what happened nobody ever stops to learn from it. No matter how hard the two nations fought they were both destroyed and their hardships forgotten. History, and the violence that drives it, repeats itself. Not as part of any greater cycle but because it's simply the nature of man. War isn't to be celebrated or scorned, it should merely be respected.

The character arc of Joshua Graham from Van Buren to Honest Hearts is the most sincere expression of Fallout's core message. No matter what conclusion Graham reaches it isn't truly satisfactory. He wanted to use his position as a military authority to reach out to the greater Wasteland and propagate his faith, and in doing so sacrificed both himself and his people. More than that, he's haunted by the knowledge that even if he hadn't walked that path he and his people would have died at the hands of tribals and their expansionism all the same. Conflict is an inevitable part of life, and those who blind themselves to that fact are themselves the most doomed to repeat it. That is what the core of the Fallout series is about.

Of course I don't have an IQ large enough to be represented in scientific notation, so the series is probably just about Brexit, or Funko Pops and whatever trash Bethesda's been shitting out for the last decade. What do I know - I only played the games.
 

Get_your_kicks_with_30-06

I did everything correct
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It was China who shot first.
If I'm not mistaken didn't Mothership Zeta retcon this and say the fucking aliens started the Great War (thanks Bethesda).

The message that I get from the series is that ideology is often just a mask for tribalism, that's the point behind the "war never changes" message.
I've always drawn the conclusion from the non-Bethsda developed Fallout's that the big overarching theme of the games is that no matter how developed and technologically advanced people are (or not developed and advanced) we still operate on the same presumptions that we have been working on forever, the big one being war. No matter the time or the conditions people will always divide along racial, moral, political, and practical lines. Racial being the various mutants ghouls and super mutants (because lets face it cant be putting real race tensions in these games), moral being the various religious groups, political being the NCR, Caesars Legion, the Enclave to an extent, and practical being the raider groups that dont care about anything besides surviving in the most efficient way possible (theft and murder).
 
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HeyYou

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/r/modpiracy went down, RIP. Anyone know other places where you can pirate Creation Club stuff?
 

GethN7

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If I'm not mistaken didn't Mothership Zeta retcon this and say the fucking aliens started the Great War (thanks Bethesda).
No. China confirmed to have fired first. The aliens were known to an extent Pre-War, but had no bearing on the outcome of the war itself.

By Fallout 4 you get confirmation via various logs and even a ghoulified Chinese sub captain who was at ground zero for The Great War China fired first.
 
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