Fallout series -

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
No. China confirmed to have fired first. The aliens were known to an extent Pre-War, but had no bearing on the outcome of the war itself.

By Fallout 4 you get confirmation via various logs and even a ghoulified Chinese sub captain who was at ground zero for The Great War China fired first.
There's a wrinkle in the original games from one of the AIs you meet -- can't remember if it was the one in The Glow or the one you meet in the Brotherhood's San Francisco bunker -- that the war was actually started by bored AIs who had gone so crazy from their physical isolation that they did it just to have something to do.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
There's a wrinkle in the original games from one of the AIs you meet -- can't remember if it was the one in The Glow or the one you meet in the Brotherhood's San Francisco bunker -- that the war was actually started by bored AIs who had gone so crazy from their physical isolation that they did it just to have something to do.
From what I recall, until Fallout 2, they left it kinda up in the air who exactly fired first, though if the Chinese had as much AI controlled system as the US, that very well could have been true.

Fallout 2 has the Enclave President claim China did it, but you have to take his words with a grain of salt since he's obviously biased.

Fallout 3 again leaves the implication China fired first as being true, but doesn't really fall one way or another. New Vegas was kinda vague as well, but if you check the Black Mountain logs, they imply it actually may have been true China fired first.

Fallout 4 finally has them just straight up say China did so, mostly because their back was to the wall and they felt they were doomed if they did NOTHING, so the nukes flew. Doesn't really contradict previous games, and given the U.S. had a lot of things hooked up to computers, the one to make the final call very well may have been a Chinese AI that took the pants shitting fear of the Chinese leadership as a green light to launch the nukes.
 
Last edited:

LazarusOwenhart

Terrainist Shitlord!
kiwifarms.net
I never understand where the hatred for Bethesda comes from. I played Fallout back at day one. I have as much right to intense Fallout nostalgia as any slavering fanboy and yet, I love the Bethesda games. Yeah New Vegas is better, because of course it is, Obsidian have the advantage of a dev team that's been making RPGs since, well Fallout. The thing is Bethesda have tried to deepen the lore and update a complex genre for modern players whilst still maintaining the overall spirit and aesthetic of the game. Personally I think they've done a fair job. Yeah Fallout 76 isn't great, but it only suffers from the same problems a lot of online multiplayer games do these days. Ultimately there were a lot of fates for Fallout worse than Bethesda.
 

Overcast

Perfection has no age
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I never understand where the hatred for Bethesda comes from. I played Fallout back at day one. I have as much right to intense Fallout nostalgia as any slavering fanboy and yet, I love the Bethesda games. Yeah New Vegas is better, because of course it is, Obsidian have the advantage of a dev team that's been making RPGs since, well Fallout. The thing is Bethesda have tried to deepen the lore and update a complex genre for modern players whilst still maintaining the overall spirit and aesthetic of the game. Personally I think they've done a fair job. Yeah Fallout 76 isn't great, but it only suffers from the same problems a lot of online multiplayer games do these days. Ultimately there were a lot of fates for Fallout worse than Bethesda.
I mean, Brotherhood of Steel was a thing before Bethesda took the IP. And a lot of the issues people have with the modern games can be traced back as far as 2.

And New Vegas was able to come about due to 3 being successful. So credit is where credit’s due.

Really, 3 onward being set away from the West Coast was pretty smart on Bethesda’s part. They’re certainly divisive, but at the end of the day, they clearly did something right to garner the good will and fan base they have.

Either way, I always look forward to the salt and controversy that comes with every new Fallout game.
 

LazarusOwenhart

Terrainist Shitlord!
kiwifarms.net
I mean, Brotherhood of Steel was a thing before Bethesda took the IP. And a lot of the issues people have with the modern games can be traced back as far as 2.

And New Vegas was able to come about due to 3 being successful. So credit is where credit’s due.

Really, 3 onward being set away from the West Coast was pretty smart on Bethesda’s part. They’re certainly divisive, but at the end of the day, they clearly did something right to garner the good will and fan base they have.

Either way, I always look forward to the salt and controversy that comes with every new Fallout game.
The existence of the NCR makes the west coast a dumb place for a game. New Vegas to the coast is peaceful, civilized, safe. If Bethesda are smart, the next game will be BIG, and possibly be set slightly further in the future. I always see the Fallout games as having a logical endpoint, that being the reestablishment of what we would consider a civilized society. Mr House predicts that very event in the timeline and its about 100 years ahead of Fallout 4. I'd like to play games that make me a part of that. I'm fanboy as HELL about Fallout. I have fucking Ink Spots albums on Vinyl that I spent ages hunting for because getting them mint is a fucking chore. My MAME cabinet has a full sized NCR flag as a dust cover and right this very second my 3D printer is pumping out an NCR Ranger helmet piece by piece. It's a big part of the things I love. Fallout 3 and 4 are fundamentally good games. They have their issues, because all games do, but they're good. Hating on them is like hating on Star Wars, or Call Of Duty, or the MCU. It's fun, it's edgy, you can be cool on FaceBook. Without wanting to sound like a douche, I probably have more of a right to critique Fallout than the average 18 year old nouveau gamer who has a false nostalgia for games they haven't played. My opinion on Fallout 3 and 4 is that they're admirable, solid entries in the series.
 

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Without wanting to sound like a douche, I probably have more of a right to critique Fallout than the average 18 year old nouveau gamer who has a false nostalgia for games they haven't played. My opinion on Fallout 3 and 4 is that they're admirable, solid entries in the series.
If you didn't want to sound like a douche, I'm afraid to tell you you've failed.

I've been playing since 1988, with Wasteland on my C64, so watch it, junior.
 

garakfan69

Please be patient, I have idiocy
kiwifarms.net
I never understand where the hatred for Bethesda comes from.
I enjoyed FO3 but I can definitely understand why people hate it.

It is awful as an RPG. Stats barely matter, you constantly get railroaded into completely exceptional choices, the writing is absolutely abysmal, few quests and most of them suck, and piss poor world building (Look! It's [real world city] but full of rubble that references every obvious thing everyone knows about [real world city] + wacky places that make no sense at all)

And this was supposed to be a sequel to Fallout, the game that pretty much defined the "modern" WRPG genre.
Instead you got an even more dumbed down Oblivion (with guns).

They also never got the original setting and tone right.
The dark humour is replaced with just plain silliness and references. The retrofuturism is replaced with people born generations after in a completely different world obsessing about 50s culture for no reason.
Fallout's world was harsh and cynical with a gloomy oppressive atmosphere - In Fallout 3 you never get the feeling that people struggle to survive - they're all free to devote their life to the dumbest shit while you yourself mow down level-scaled enemies while listening to Butcher Pete, never to encounter a place that actually feels dangerous.
In movie terms: Fallout was A Boy and His Dog, Fallout 3 was Mad Max 3.
 

Overcast

Perfection has no age
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The existence of the NCR makes the west coast a dumb place for a game. New Vegas to the coast is peaceful, civilized, safe. If Bethesda are smart, the next game will be BIG, and possibly be set slightly further in the future. I always see the Fallout games as having a logical endpoint, that being the reestablishment of what we would consider a civilized society. Mr House predicts that very event in the timeline and its about 100 years ahead of Fallout 4. I'd like to play games that make me a part of that. I'm fanboy as HELL about Fallout. I have fucking Ink Spots albums on Vinyl that I spent ages hunting for because getting them mint is a fucking chore. My MAME cabinet has a full sized NCR flag as a dust cover and right this very second my 3D printer is pumping out an NCR Ranger helmet piece by piece. It's a big part of the things I love. Fallout 3 and 4 are fundamentally good games. They have their issues, because all games do, but they're good. Hating on them is like hating on Star Wars, or Call Of Duty, or the MCU. It's fun, it's edgy, you can be cool on FaceBook. Without wanting to sound like a douche, I probably have more of a right to critique Fallout than the average 18 year old nouveau gamer who has a false nostalgia for games they haven't played. My opinion on Fallout 3 and 4 is that they're admirable, solid entries in the series.
New Vegas’s DLC was essentially foreshadowing to future disasters that could essentially reset the setting.

Between the red cloud, tunnelers and the stuff that goes on in Big MT, the West could potentially face some major problems.

Probably one of the reasons why I don’t care too much about the DLC personally. Makes it so that your choices you made in the game don’t matter and just gives a flimsy excuse for more games.
 

Dom Cruise

kiwifarms.net
I never understand where the hatred for Bethesda comes from. I played Fallout back at day one. I have as much right to intense Fallout nostalgia as any slavering fanboy and yet, I love the Bethesda games. Yeah New Vegas is better, because of course it is, Obsidian have the advantage of a dev team that's been making RPGs since, well Fallout. The thing is Bethesda have tried to deepen the lore and update a complex genre for modern players whilst still maintaining the overall spirit and aesthetic of the game. Personally I think they've done a fair job. Yeah Fallout 76 isn't great, but it only suffers from the same problems a lot of online multiplayer games do these days. Ultimately there were a lot of fates for Fallout worse than Bethesda.
FO3 is a solid game but it is dumbed down over 1 and 2, the writing isn't as good, the RPG mechanics aren't as deep, I played 3 first and thought it was great, but after having since played 1 and 2 multiple times I can see why some fans weren't pleased.

The trouble with FO4 is the base building and crafting mechanics, this is a matter of personal taste but I just find that shit tedious, I'd much rather have well crafted game environments than one you build yourself, 4 has its moments but it's bogged down by that stuff as well as the writing continuing to be bland.

And of course 76 is a busted ass mess.

Bethesda's take on the franchise isn't worthless but they've really screwed it up in recent years.

A lot of it just comes down to writing, something that too often gets lost in the shuffle during game development, it's embarrassing that Bethesda thought going back to the bland writing in 4 was acceptable after NV raised the bar.
 

Syaoran Li

Beware The Walkin' Dude
kiwifarms.net
New Vegas will always be the best Fallout in my opinion, but I don't really get the hate that Fallout 3 gets these days. Don't get me wrong, Fallout 4 was a flawed mess in its own right and Fallout 76 is still an unmitigated disaster, but Fallout 3 is still a good game.

A lot of people like to retroactively pinpoint Fallout 3 as the game where the series "jumped the shark", and that's mainly because of both the greatness of New Vegas combined with the lackluster Fallout 4 and the downright god-awful Fallout 76.

Fallout 3 is flawed in some ways, and you could say that a lot of the issues with Bethesda's later Fallout games got their start with that title, but keep in mind the context of the time the game came out in.

Before Fallout 3, the Fallout franchise was a relatively obscure cult classic at best. It still had a lot of respect among fans of old-school CRPG's, but it was a dead series in a largely dead sub-genre, and Bethesda brought it back and made it a household name.

Even in 2008, a turn-based isometric RPG like Fallout 1 and 2 was simply not viable and bear in mind that Bethesda in 2008 wasn't the monstrous trainwreck of a company they became after Skyrim.

Fallout 3 isn't anywhere near as good as New Vegas or the early Fallout games, but it's still a great game in the grand scheme of things.

New Vegas was really the best of both worlds in my opinion, taking the best parts of Fallout 3 and combining it with the best parts of Fallout 1 and 2.
 

SiggyB

-Screeching in German-
kiwifarms.net
Just discovered this thread and I'm quite happy I did so! I've played 3 and New Vegas which makes me a rookie in the Fallout universe, but I blame the fact that I already play so many ancient, tiny-ass-resolution-and-shitty-UI games that I figure that playing One or Two would get me addicted in ways that might cost me my GPA.

Speaking of Fallout games, anyone play Old World Blues? I generally dislike HoI 4 because of how shittily they handled the base game, and how they have to basically fix it with DLC, but I quite enjoy the total overhaul that throws you into the world of Fallout.
 
  • Feels
Reactions: Pissmaster

Pissmaster

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I enjoyed FO3 but I can definitely understand why people hate it.

It is awful as an RPG. Stats barely matter, you constantly get railroaded into completely exceptional choices, the writing is absolutely abysmal, few quests and most of them suck, and piss poor world building (Look! It's [real world city] but full of rubble that references every obvious thing everyone knows about [real world city] + wacky places that make no sense at all)

And this was supposed to be a sequel to Fallout, the game that pretty much defined the "modern" WRPG genre.
Instead you got an even more dumbed down Oblivion (with guns).

They also never got the original setting and tone right.
The dark humour is replaced with just plain silliness and references. The retrofuturism is replaced with people born generations after in a completely different world obsessing about 50s culture for no reason.
Fallout's world was harsh and cynical with a gloomy oppressive atmosphere - In Fallout 3 you never get the feeling that people struggle to survive - they're all free to devote their life to the dumbest shit while you yourself mow down level-scaled enemies while listening to Butcher Pete, never to encounter a place that actually feels dangerous.
In movie terms: Fallout was A Boy and His Dog, Fallout 3 was Mad Max 3.
I was thinking about this earlier, how the Bethesda Fallout games tend to get hate online because they're not RPGs in the same vein as Fallout 1 and 2, but I just don't think a CRPG like 1 and 2 could ever have the same kind of mainstream appeal 3/NV/4 had. Granted, Fallout 3 was sort of a product of its time, with so many games in the '00s being proudly touted as having moral choice systems that always boiled down to angelic good or devilshly evil, with no middle ground. New Vegas struck a nice middle ground, putting morals on the backburner and having you make actual choices that would steer you towards several different endgames, but I doubt we'll ever see an RPG with dialog trees on par with Disco Elysium get mainstream appeal any time soon.

RPGs have become so much harder to define over the years, anyway. I'm sure there's plenty of hate on 90's newsgroup threads about what we now call JRPGs calling themselves "role-playing games", when in most of them you don't even create a character, let alone make any decisions for them. But, the entire term is a huge mess now, so "CRPG" has taken to mean basically, like, a game where the computer acts as the DM, and you're playing a simulation of a pen-and-paper experience. Bethesda's Fallouts are not that at all, and are really closer to action RPGs like Diablo or Secret of Mana. And going by that category, they're definitely top-of-the-line experiences.

Though I wouldn't say no to a Bethesda Fallout game with Disco Elysium-levels of dialog trees.
 

c-no

Duck
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I mean, Brotherhood of Steel was a thing before Bethesda took the IP. And a lot of the issues people have with the modern games can be traced back as far as 2.

And New Vegas was able to come about due to 3 being successful. So credit is where credit’s due.

Really, 3 onward being set away from the West Coast was pretty smart on Bethesda’s part. They’re certainly divisive, but at the end of the day, they clearly did something right to garner the good will and fan base they have.

Either way, I always look forward to the salt and controversy that comes with every new Fallout game.
Well, we did manage to get some salt 76 had in people screeching about how the game was soulless compared to previous games because of the message of nukes bad and all even though in all honesty, we had a nuclear bomb launcher as a weapon and one could still use the nukes in the game to drive the point of nukes bad. Then again I didn't play 76 so I don't know how bad nukes really are beyond hearing how three of them being set off in-game caused a server problem.

FO3 is a solid game but it is dumbed down over 1 and 2, the writing isn't as good, the RPG mechanics aren't as deep, I played 3 first and thought it was great, but after having since played 1 and 2 multiple times I can see why some fans weren't pleased.

The trouble with FO4 is the base building and crafting mechanics, this is a matter of personal taste but I just find that shit tedious, I'd much rather have well crafted game environments than one you build yourself, 4 has its moments but it's bogged down by that stuff as well as the writing continuing to be bland.

And of course 76 is a busted ass mess.

Bethesda's take on the franchise isn't worthless but they've really screwed it up in recent years.

A lot of it just comes down to writing, something that too often gets lost in the shuffle during game development, it's embarrassing that Bethesda thought going back to the bland writing in 4 was acceptable after NV raised the bar.
The writing itself would be a problem since from what we see with 4, it's just the story of 3 but flipped around on top of a villain faction that has a poor excuse for making robots to replace humans. I wouldn't mind another Fallout from Bethesda but I would like to see them write a better story than "find your missing family member" with a bad guy faction that has a poor motivation. Not really asking for a villain as deep in explaining his motives like Caesar but at least one with a plan that doesn't sound like it's stupid as it was with Father's.
 

Dom Cruise

kiwifarms.net
Well, we did manage to get some salt 76 had in people screeching about how the game was soulless compared to previous games because of the message of nukes bad and all even though in all honesty, we had a nuclear bomb launcher as a weapon and one could still use the nukes in the game to drive the point of nukes bad. Then again I didn't play 76 so I don't know how bad nukes really are beyond hearing how three of them being set off in-game caused a server problem.


The writing itself would be a problem since from what we see with 4, it's just the story of 3 but flipped around on top of a villain faction that has a poor excuse for making robots to replace humans. I wouldn't mind another Fallout from Bethesda but I would like to see them write a better story than "find your missing family member" with a bad guy faction that has a poor motivation. Not really asking for a villain as deep in explaining his motives like Caesar but at least one with a plan that doesn't sound like it's stupid as it was with Father's.
At least 4 had the benefit of all new antagonists instead of just reusing Super Mutants and The Enclave.

I forgot to mention though that I find it best to just think of Bethesda's games as their own continuity separate from 1, 2 and New Vegas, it's easier to forgive the shortcomings that way.
 

c-no

Duck
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
One of the best things Bethesda did was to capture the 50s aesthetic of Fallout. Fallout 1 and 2 were limited by their graphics. Only some of the car wrecks and prewar items looked like the 50s.

In contrast, Fallout 3 gave us robots, weapons, and a host of miscellaneous items that looked like a futuristic version of the 50s.
Most we could still see the aesthetic in Fallout 1 and 2 was in the vehicles used in places like Junktown or in some of items you find like Cat's Paw or cheesy poofs. On that same note though, we never seen much weapons of a 50's aesthetic being used in Fallout beyond New Vegas giving us some old guns which is ironic since 1 and 2 had weapons that were long after the 50's such as the desert eagle and the p90. Would of been nice of Bethesda to make more use of the 50's aethestics in having guns from that era in Fallout 4 since New Vegas had a wide selection.
 

Lurkio

kiwifarms.net
Give me one good reason not to side with Father Elijah.
Because he's old and gay and was booted out of the faggiest faction in New Vegas.

But good lord was he a great villain (I know a lot of voice acting in New Vegas is sub-par, but damn did Father Elijah's VA earn his pay check) in what is my opinion the best DLC for New Vegas. Yeah I know some people didn't like it because it was hard, and the collars could be a bit bullshit sometimes, and choosing one wrong dialogue option for a companion could turn them against you...But I honestly felt that all lent itself to the opressive atmosphere of the Sierra Madre. Fallout games aren't scary, even when they try to be, but sweet Sunset Sarsaparilla there were moments in Dead Money that got me on the edge of my seat.

God did Obsidian make a good Fallout game. Not gonna lie, a small part of me hopes that Elder Scrolls 6 bombs just so the Bethesda will turn to Obsidian to make another Fallout game just out of desperation.
 
Tags
None