Feminism and the LGBT Community with Respect to Transgenderism - A vain (and autistic) attempt to improve Tranny Sideshows

[2manycats]

Most TERFs of the thread are just conservative version of femminist. "Ok, this is enough, we can stop here but still safeguard our rights," is their thought. Feminism is traditionally left, but it stretches across to the right nowadays because a lot of women like having basic modern shit like credit cards and such. So you have a conflict between "conservative" feminist and "liberal" feminist. A libfem is everyone can be a woman and we all deserve equality and also gender doesn't matter except when it does, a conservative fem is we all deserve equality but we don't need to include men.

This I can understand perfectly well, but I'd argue that most ordinary women wouldn't necessarily equate being allowed to vote, have a career, own property etc. with "feminism" these days or identify with the word feminist. It's certainly due to the feminists of the past that these things are now commonplace, sure, but the word has come to have different connotations and is now more associated with the extreme types who go on unhinged rants about patriarchy and believe it's wrong to shave your body hair. It's no different to anything else that might have been considered a radical, crazy idea in the past but now people think nothing of it.

So really, this objection is more about words and their meanings than anything, and while it does make sense that people who believe that "woman" is best defined as an adult human female (which I'm not going to dispute, it's factually accurate and easy to understand, any other definition the troons try to come up with is either circular or complete nonsense) might not like seeing words being redefined like that, one is a simple, immutable biological characteristic that applies to a very large number of individuals, the other is a political/ideological movement with many different sub-factions that one can choose whether or not to associate with, so the two aren't totally comparable.

 

[Hann]

TERFs have no power, no prospect of gaining power, and no broad base of support among the general population or in media that translates into real world influence. Trannies have the full might of the state, transnational corporations, financial institutions, mass and social media, and academia promoting their garbage and helping them groom kids.

I don’t know why anybody, even right wingers, cares enough to cry about TERFs. It’s like seething about monarchists or luddites.

Because some of us like to shit on trannies without being lumped in with the man-hating, "down with the patriarchy" types. I don't consider TERFs a threat, as I pointed out - they're just annoying and I'd prefer not to be considered one only because I'm a woman myself.

I'm an equal opportunity tranny hater, it's just the male ones are ten times more ridiculous and dangerous while the female ones are just largely pathetic and whine all day on twitter about not getting enough gay dick rammed up their asses.

 

[renée remains insane]

If you feel us meanie TERFs make you want to defend troons then obviously you supported troons all along.

Maybe you're right, I was stalking this troon to eventually offer up to Tranny Sideshows and I just ended up thinking he seemed pretty cool. Good taste in metal, talks like the fatgirl from Big Mouth.

#stitch with @lordzeloxy good luck 🤡#bodypositivity #fatgirlwinnin

7.9K Likes, 241 Comments. TikTok video from rathooker (@rathooker): "#stitch with @lordzeloxy good luck 🤡#bodypositivity #fatgirlwinnin". original sound.

www.tiktok.com

 

[PinstripeLuns]

TERFs have no power, no prospect of gaining power, and no broad base of support among the general population or in media that translates into real world influence. Trannies have the full might of the state, transnational corporations, financial institutions, mass and social media, and academia promoting their garbage and helping them groom kids.

I don’t know why anybody, even right wingers, cares enough to cry about TERFs. It’s like seething about monarchists or luddites.

Absolutely, and the insane thing is that they cry about being oppressed when they are clearly the dominant force.

Another thing I hate, I'm sorry if this is off topic, is that whenever I say I don't support trans people all these edgelords start with the whole "based" shtick until I say I'm fine with gay people. Then they devolve into sperging out about muh sodomites and muh Bible as they larp as God-fearing whatevers. Gays have biological evidence supporting them, trans people don't, I think you can have one without the other and I really wish you could, but I think the hugbox nature born from genuine oppression has let troons roam.

 

[Ted Gazynski]

Absolutely, and the insane thing is that they cry about being oppressed when they are clearly the dominant force.

Another thing I hate, I'm sorry if this is off topic, is that whenever I say I don't support trans people all these edgelords start with the whole "based" shtick until I say I'm fine with gay people. Then they devolve into sperging out about muh sodomites and muh Bible as they larp as God-fearing whatevers. Gays have biological evidence supporting them, trans people don't, I think you can have one without the other and I really wish you could, but I think the hugbox nature born from genuine oppression has let troons roam.

As a former liberal who isn’t particularly religious, I understand. IMO there’s no getting off the wild ride of progress, and trying to draw a line in the sand at trannies is futile. They’re gonna be fully accepted by society at large within a generation, and there’s nothing any of us can do about it.

People who dislike trannies in 2050 are going to be regarded the same way the KKK is today.

 

[Ser Prize]

Will this all go away if we reinstated gender roles? What is your ideal solution to the troon problem?

Assuming this is a genuine question: frankly, I don't know. The problem with troony is that, as I outlined before, it's not an isolated issue. It's a symptom of a deeper problem, a fundamental breakdown of the social unit. I'd like to think that it'll be self correcting in time if you remove the outside forces that try to equalize everything and shove women into men's roles and men into women's roles(though this part rarely happens. It's not really a two way street).

The thing about gender roles is that we evolved them for a reason over a loooong period of time. In time they'll come to reassert themselves. But that doesn't do anything to help the people left miserable in the dust of this marxist social experiment.

Women aren't any happier. Men aren't happy at all. At this point what did we gain from this?

As a former liberal who isn’t particularly religious, I understand. IMO there’s no getting off the wild ride of progress, and trying to draw a line in the sand at trannies is futile. They’re gonna be fully accepted by society at large within a generation, and there’s nothing any of us can do about it.

People who dislike trannies in 2050 are going to be regarded the same way the KKK is today.

It's funny, I was similar. I used to make fun of the slippery slope. Now I know it's all to real. I wish I had listened back then.

 

[Terrorist]

What exactly have TERFs accomplished? I can’t name anything. Why do I need to embrace Radical Feminism and all it entails to oppose the trans agenda like TERFs say I must?

At least in America, the most substantial resistance seems not to have come from feminists (the vast majority of whom support trans rights) but from right-leaning people and political groups.

 

[Marvin]

What exactly have TERFs accomplished? I can’t name anything. Why do I need to embrace Radical Feminism and all it entails to oppose the trans agenda like TERFs say I must?

At least in America, the most substantial resistance seems not to have come from feminists (the vast majority of whom support trans rights) but from right-leaning people and political groups.

They've done a lot better in the UK. Troon nonsense is collapsing in the UK and a much bigger chunk of their terf activists are left wing.

 

[Terrorist]

They've done a lot better in the UK. Troon nonsense is collapsing in the UK and a much bigger chunk of their terf activists are left wing.

Could you elaborate? In what specific ways? How has this translated into concrete reforms? The UK seems even farther down the toilet than we are - at least here I don’t have to worry about hate speech laws yet.

My issue with TERFs is this: They don’t just ask I respect their achievements. They demand I change my worldview to fit theirs, because according to them I’m a useful idiot for the trannies if I hold views on gender to the right of theirs.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

They've done a lot better in the UK. Troon nonsense is collapsing in the UK and a much bigger chunk of their terf activists are left wing.

Because our conservative party is the absolute GOAT at parasatising causes for their own ends. Saying TERF's have made an impact is wrong; it's better to say that TERF's have provided the justification for the cons to do what they've wanted to do already.

 

[Marvin]

Could you elaborate? In what specific ways? How has this translated into concrete reforms? The UK seems even farther down the toilet than we are - at least here I don’t have to worry about hate speech laws yet.

The UK is certainly flawed in a lot of ways already, regardless of trannies, particularly regarding speech and guns. (rip P A Luty)

That being said, I guess I'm more just thinking in terms of who's willing to actually be publicly gender critical. In the US, no one on the left would chance it. They'd be completely fucked. Only the most batshit, extreme radfems in the US bother with it, whereas it's somewhat more mainstream in the UK.

As far as concrete reforms go, it's hard to attribute specific reforms to specific groups, I think. So it's possible terfs over there didn't supply the real muscle in gaining progress, I don't know either way.

But they have been making a lot of progress. In particular, Stonewall, their big gay (read: tranny) org over there has a frankly impressive grift where they publish a gay acceptance ranking for various corporations and organizations, including government organizations, and then they sell training courses to the corps for big money to increase their ranking. It's faggy extortion. Well, recently, big orgs in the UK have been dropping out of the Stonewall training programs like flies, including the BBC (this has huge implications).

It turns out that some of the advice Stonewall has been giving, like regarding bathrooms and such, is actually technically incompatible with the law. Stonewall's training has been telling corporations that it's illegal to have sex segregated bathrooms and stuff like that, which (I'm told) is factually untrue.

I'm an American, so I'm just repeating what I've heard from some of my British friends, so anyone who's more knowledgeable, feel free to correct.

@Johan Schmidt

Edit: In the US, when we've been making inroads, it's thanks to federalism and big players like Florida and Texas telling troons to fuck off. Which is nice, but it sucks that it's a left/right thing instead of just common sense.

 

[ShitInMyMouth]

I didn't have any contact with troonery (other than watching the occasional woman getting nailed by a MTF for educational purposes) and it's only something I've seen in the last few years. Contact with them has been online and in gaming communities. Warhammer 40k seems to be getting rife with them.

I was sympathetic at first, with a bit of a live and let live, the seem ok people and aren't harming anyone attitude. I knew one FTM who was absolutely cool. He (I'm respecting pronouns because I'm a cuck) was chill, didn't police language, and was open and humorous about transition. He's disappeared off the radar and I really hope he hasn't joined the 41%.

The chicks with dicks though, fuck me, what slow burning lunacy. Those dudes (not respecting pronouns here because fuck them) started off as OK and then got progressively more and more twisted. Maybe it was the male competitive urge in them but they went out there way to out do each other. When they really started LARPing it was some of the most sexist shit I've seen and I'm a long time /pol/ poster. Stuff like "now I'm on the HRT I'm such a silly goose." Guys, you've been a woman for six months and you're trying to undo about 200 years worth of woman's rights by acting like a retard.

The thing I noticed is they are all clearly autistic with shit parents. So my guess for guess for the transdemic is poor parenting + autism + internet validation = troon bait.

As for the guys who "discover" they are a woman late in life? Pure weird fetish shit. 100%. I know this isn't anything new and original but when lowcow favourite Graham Lineham is screeching about AGP I thing he's on the nose about those dudes.

I don't buy the porn causes it thing. I have a thing for redheads (without penises.) I had this before easy access to porn (most of you are too young to remember those times.) They feature heavily in my educational internet searches because that's just a paraphilia I have. Most of my girlfriends have been redheads too and the internet didn't make me do that.

Something but the wiring of the AGPs brains so that gets them to search out the weird troon stuff, act it out, whilst being dangers to women.

TL;DR FTM are alright people, dudes in dresses can fuck off.

 

[Lovecraft's Cat]

A bit late, but what the hell.

I’m a bit older than the transtrender Zoomers out there, so I remember the late 90s/early 2000s scene. I’ve used unisex bathrooms at hole-in-the-wall gay clubs, done coke in adjoining stalls with trannies and drag queens, none of it an issue. Everyone knew what everyone else was and was about and nothing was off limits for discussion and banter. It was a great time to be a lesbian. Straight goth dudes wore nail polish and eyeliner but were clearly identifiable as men. I was on board with all that shit.

So in the 2010s, it started. Severely BPD female acquaintance decides she’s a man now, and everyone at our shitty food service job needs to call her new pronouns and a new name (coincidentally the same name as a boy we work with, who now is expected to go by his last name). It was still early, like 2014, so I felt comfortable being like “eh, I’ll try, but you’ll always be deadname to me, and new name will always be the phone guy with braces.” She was chill about it. Then the little butch girl that had a crush on me my senior year decides she’s a man, too. Marries some fat bitch and makes their confused kids call her “daddy.” Whatever. Then my best friend troons out. I supported her, honestly. Thought it was kind of sexist and her lying to herself, but I wanted her to be happy. Then I learned that her ONLY reasons were sexist and homophobic. And she intended to keep her vagina. So then I started searching online, naively sure that no one else had these questions or thoughts… why does she not want a penis? Why does she say she doesn’t feel like a woman? Who the fuck feels like a woman?? Why has she always bitched about straight men and now she decides she’s been one all along?

So like two days later I was peaked for good, trannies are fucking retarded and regressive and I hate them the end.

More homophobia and sexism accusations against trannies. Nothing special there. However, I do unironically like how this account boils down to "damn trannies took away my gay club bathroom coke snorting sessions". It's a simple reason; I like that.

There are a few in every group that want troons dead, but they want me, anyone slightly darker than lily-white, "the Jews," and lots of other groups dead, too. Whatever.

The majority from my POV just want the troons to behave like normal people, to act respectfully toward others, to not groom/abuse/seduce children and to not force others to play along with their mental illness/fetish. It is the troons that claim all these perfectly normal and standard asks that apply to literally all subgroups of the human race are "a literal holocaust."

Troons are LITERALLY nazis cause, of course

I blame anime. And kpop. Mostly kpop.

for once, a good take from TSS

See. Let me explain why a lot of Hispanic people HATE the term Latinx.

I grew up in a cutting edge Hispanic neighborhood, so this is from experience. Years ago Latinx didn't refer to the gender of the speaker. It was brought into use because people kept getting butthurt over Latino vs Hispanic and which term was more acceptable to use.

There were two silent groups, but if you hung around /grew up around hispanic people you knew. There's Group A.

Group A: Proud to be Latino.
Their heritage is everything. Anything that censors or limits their ability to express who they are is met with extreme hatred and resistance. And you better get their individual group right.
Don't call a Dominican and Puerto Rican. Do not call a Cuban anything but Cuban.

Calling someone a Latinx enrages Group A because they are proud of how much different they are from the other guys. How fucking dare you reduce MY culture and heritage to X- Ypu better signify exactly which group you're talking about.

And ironically, there is a group of Latinos that hate being called Latino or Hispanic. You better refer to them with the correct term.

Group B: Ashamed to be Latino/ Hispanic

They want to be white. Their whole existence is breeding with a white person to stabilize their skin color. This might sound racist to some people, but Latinos and Hispanics have an entire range of skin color for their children. Two Latino parents will give birth to 7 different shades of children ranging from Deepest Darkest African to Test Tube-Burns in the Sunlight Ginger White. And they're ashamed of this. They don't want to be lumped in with the blacks. They don't want to be lumped in with the Cubans, Dominicans or God Forbid the Haitians. They're aiming for the classy nature of being white. Yet at the same time they don't want to have have WHITE-WHITE children.

They want to retain their roots. They want to have adobe with pepper in their rice. They don't want their child googling " how to make yellow /red rice" they want their kid to know from birth, but they don't want their kid's friends to know.

Calling someone a Latinx pisses on Group's B desire to separate themselves from the rest. Like no matter what they do, they will always be some sort of Latino and they will hate you eternally for mentioning it.

Adding in Gender just made this issue more complex without actually addressing the problems simply calling any random Latino , Hispanic would cause - because you know - - The language is heavily gendered! Hermana , Hermano. There's no such thing as fucking Herman-X.

tl;dr create a problem where one does not exist and sell your solution.

Kinda funny how troons deliberately ignore the fact that "Latino" can be used as a genderless noun

 

[Terrorist]

Gays have biological evidence supporting them

This is the naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is "natural", found in other species or might have an evolutionary purpose doesn't make it good or right. Animals also practice cannibalism, rape and incest. Whatever you think about homosexuality, I don't think we should base our moral standards on the animal kingdom.

You're correct in the sense that a homosexual man is something that actually objectively exists, while a "woman trapped in a man's body/man who is a woman inside" doesn't and will never exist except subjectively.

 

[Atomsk]

Hey, glad you responded - I'm one of the people who gave a reply but made it very clear that I'm not on board with radical feminism at all, mostly to show that not every woman who disagrees with the trans narrative does so from a radical feminist standpoint. I mentioned Tumblr and liberal relatives in my post but should have mentioned the culture war as well - in my last reply to the TERFs thread I mentioned Gamergate too, and that was also a part of me coming to reject the current identity politics. There were some really stupid demands the pro-idpol side were making towards game devs, and looking deeper into what they believed just turned me off even further. A lot of the trans stuff came from that, but I see a lot of radfems who oppose the trans narrative making the exact same arguments these days too.

(Edit: as for my political views I'd say I hover around the centre, or classical liberal - free speech and freedom of expression is what's most important to me. Just don't be a prick, which includes compelling others to say or believe something, or doing something so unfathomably disgusting it lands you in prison.)

Yeah, I just read your post and it's reasonable, definitely one of the better ones. I think Tumblr was like the only place on the internet where anime fans skewed far left and remembering the anime tumblr days along with all the cringe shit they did that was never made fun of at all is insane to me when comparing it to everywhere else online. There was this one tranny youtuber who I'm pretty sure has a thread on here who was actually doing pretty well for a long time but then he started talking about tranny shit and social issues and his views plummeted pretty quickly since like 90% of weebs do not give a shit about any of that, at least not when it comes to anime discussion.

Yeah, I know that it's become kind of a weird take recently that terfs are based or whatever but they're really not, they are literally the insufferable commie leftists who everyone still hates but they just disagree with all the other insufferable commie leftists on a single point regarding trannies. These people aren't really on your side and you shouldn't be supporting them.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

That being said, I guess I'm more just thinking in terms of who's willing to actually be publicly gender critical. In the US, no one on the left would chance it. They'd be completely fucked. Only the most batshit, extreme radfems in the US bother with it, whereas it's somewhat more mainstream in the UK.

As far as concrete reforms go, it's hard to attribute specific reforms to specific groups, I think. So it's possible terfs over there didn't supply the real muscle in gaining progress, I don't know either way.

But they have been making a lot of progress. In particular, Stonewall, their big gay (read: tranny) org over there has a frankly impressive grift where they publish a gay acceptance ranking for various corporations and organizations, including government organizations, and then they sell training courses to the corps for big money to increase their ranking. It's faggy extortion. Well, recently, big orgs in the UK have been dropping out of the Stonewall training programs like flies, including the BBC (this has huge implications).

It turns out that some of the advice Stonewall has been giving, like regarding bathrooms and such, is actually technically incompatible with the law. Stonewall's training has been telling corporations that it's illegal to have sex segregated bathrooms and stuff like that, which (I'm told) is factually untrue.

Edit: In the US, when we've been making inroads, it's thanks to federalism and big players like Florida and Texas telling troons to fuck off. Which is nice, but it sucks that it's a left/right thing instead of just common sense.

As its a lolcow forum, I think that the way I'd see troonery backfiring in the UK is largely due to the troons themselves. They are the biggest trolls of their own movement, through what they actually advocate for. TRAs seemed to have stopped campaigning for anything even remotely sensible and ironically set themselves up for failure, through their victories. What I mean by that is that when they pushed for and got the law to allow kids, teenagers, and other mentally ill people to transition, men in rape shelters, forced gender propaganda in the workplace, thats where the backlash really started.

I think the largest coalition against them is more the parents, teachers, etc. The average person, the boomer, the silent majority actually waking up, whatever you want to call them. These people largely do not care about women's rights, albeit they may care about feminism marginally and standard liberal tropes. They will never give a fuck about changing the nuclear family, too many big breasted women in vidja, riot grrrl, or what have you, but they do care about their own kids, and maintaining a society where the ability to avoid violence is reasonable enough. You threaten their kids, and thats where they have gotten pissed off, and where much of the backlash in the UK is coming from now. Now, we're starting to see this in the US as well, especially in states like Virginia, Florida, or much of the South. There are detransitioners here, parents complaining, cases of troons raping girls in bathrooms, exhibitionists in spas, women being raped in prison, etc.

Troons have dug in on horrible culture issues, for God knows why, and they will wind up destroying much of their own movement as a result, imo.

I was sympathetic at first, with a bit of a live and let live, the seem ok people and aren't harming anyone attitude. I knew one FTM who was absolutely cool. He (I'm respecting pronouns because I'm a cuck) was chill, didn't police language, and was open and humorous about transition. He's disappeared off the radar and I really hope he hasn't joined the 41%.

Past the normal views on this forum, used to be sympathetic, and felt the same way. Not going to parrot what people have said before and "peak trans movements" but I've had too many of them to count.

I'm beyond caring much about the community, but eye rolling things such as "you don't need to have dysphoria to be trans or need to medically transition" (which opened the door to AGPs to be "trans") really ended things for me. There's no gatekeeping in said movement, and in fact theres active people against any sort of gate keeping. Trans no longer means anything any longer. The umbrella is frankly too big, and too inclusive of every sort of paraphilia. It used to signify some mentally ill person born in the wrong body (who, whether you feel sympathy for them or not, and many of these people can be gaslit, okay that can be a legitimate enough condition), but its come to be synonymous instead with the same sex pests as furries and confused teenaged girls and autistic boys mixed in. That is the majority of "trans" people today.

I think that in a decades time, sure, there will be more "acceptance" of gender queer folk, "former trans kids" who really just had a phase where they cut their hair short as a woman, etc. I think that people who have genuine gender dysphoria (and not 'rapid onset dysphoria' as a teenager via social contagion) are the ironic exception within their own movement. The trans movement is also full of AGPS without dysphoria or the want to even transition, and teenagers who are just confused, and that's irreversible from this point on.

Not someone who will hate anyone by default based upon the social group that they belong to, but around trans people, I do have my guard up because of how common it is for them to be highly politicized idiots, coomers, dangerhairs, and sex pests. That likely won't change for a long while. They are the mid 2010s furry menace, but with state backing- frankly.

 

[Second Sun]

These people aren't really on your side and you shouldn't be supporting them.

I think the idea is that they could be though. I regret spending much of my life being anti-christian because it's now clear there are far worse alternatives.

If feminists can step back a bit from being hypocritical (demanding both equality and special treatment), most men will accept there are unfairnesses only women face and it's not unreasonable to accommodate for them.

No sane man thinks they have a right to invade women's spaces, as long as we're able to have our own. That should be the unifying idea.

 

[Ser Prize]

I think the idea is that they could be though. I regret spending much of my life being anti-christian because it's now clear there are far worse alternatives.

If feminists can step back a bit from being hypocritical (demanding both equality and special treatment), most men will accept there are unfairnesses only women face and it's not unreasonable to accommodate for them.

No sane man thinks they have a right to invade women's spaces, as long as we're able to have our own. That should be the unifying idea.

That won't ever come to pass, unfortunately. If it did I'd agree with that line of reasoning. But it won't.

Feminism is an ideology built on coping and over compensating.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Assuming this is a genuine question: frankly, I don't know. The problem with troony is that, as I outlined before, it's not an isolated issue. It's a symptom of a deeper problem, a fundamental breakdown of the social unit. I'd like to think that it'll be self correcting in time if you remove the outside forces that try to equalize everything and shove women into men's roles and men into women's roles(though this part rarely happens. It's not really a two way street).

The thing about gender roles is that we evolved them for a reason over a loooong period of time. In time they'll come to reassert themselves. But that doesn't do anything to help the people left miserable in the dust of this marxist social experiment.

Women aren't any happier. Men aren't happy at all. At this point what did we gain from this?

It was. I'm always curious on the end game of views unlike mine.

I think troonery is a social problem, but countries where troonery is illegal and men and women are encouraged to fulfill gendered roles more strictly have their own social problems stemming from their stricter views (Muslim states are the classic extreme example but that's an extreme as I said). Like you implied, there ain't no direct cure to this social problem that will remove troons instantly (aside from troonicide and deportation). The social political machine is complex and hard to change and operate when so many hands with so much power push in one way or another. It would be hard to detangle it all no matter where you fall.

I think it is hard to ever go back to social roles as we once knew them. For one, they depend on class and change with the times. John and Mary the farmers may have had different chores at different points of the day with different childcare focuses, but there was a good amount of overlap in toiling and picking things out in the field. Poor families in cities worked in factories, sometimes segregatedby gender, sometimes side by side. A lot of these jobs have been taken by automation as well, which is a whole other can of worms. You'd also have to figure out which gender roles have science behind them and which are kinda... arbitrary.

Another is trying to balance out the work force. One of the good parts about everyone being able to work at whatever they're qualified for is that we added a bunch of workers to the workforce. It'd suck if a number of workers had to go home (especially if we couldn't find another job for them right away) or change jobs due to gender.

I rather try and encourage men and women to follow talents. This way, if Mike was more focused on STEM fields and Rita wanted to dive into teaching or other carework, the two could go for it. Most men and women would naturally even out into what they're good at or inclined to do as you'd said, and then those who are atypical for their gender can still have their talents nurtured so we don't miss out on good people with good ideas and such. I guess we'll have to wait and see how much troons affect gender in the next 5 years and if that'll force people to change their views or not.

My issue with TERFs is this: They don’t just ask I respect their achievements. They demand I change my worldview to fit theirs, because according to them I’m a useful idiot for the trannies if I hold views on gender to the right of theirs.

Every side that thinks it is right hardcore doesn't get why you don't see their basic rules and ethics as your basic rules and ethics. It just makes so much sense to them, why isn't it doing the same for you??? Turns out this self unaware attitude that turned people away from an ideology doesn't work well when another ideology uses it.

I'm trying to say I fucking agree with you and it is pretty goddamn embarrassing watching people try to do atheism/christianity conversions to each other. Forcing people to feel or think the same way you do always ends bad unless you're doing literal political invasions of countries.

 

[Ser Prize]

It was. I'm always curious on the end game of views unlike mine.

I think troonery is a social problem, but countries where troonery is illegal and men and women are encouraged to fulfill gendered roles more strictly have their own social problems stemming from their stricter views (Muslim states are the classic extreme example but that's an extreme as I said). Like you implied, there ain't no direct cure to this social problem that will remove troons instantly (aside from troonicide and deportation). The social political machine is complex and hard to change and operate when so many hands with so much power push in one way or another. It would be hard to detangle it all no matter where you fall.

I think it is hard to ever go back to social roles as we once knew them. For one, they depend on class and change with the times. John and Mary the farmers may have had different chores at different points of the day with different childcare focuses, but there was a good amount of overlap in toiling and picking things out in the field. Poor families in cities worked in factories, sometimes segregatedby gender, sometimes side by side. A lot of these jobs have been taken by automation as well, which is a whole other can of worms. You'd also have to figure out which gender roles have science behind them and which are kinda... arbitrary.

Another is trying to balance out the work force. One of the good parts about everyone being able to work at whatever they're qualified for is that we added a bunch of workers to the workforce. It'd suck if a number of workers had to go home (especially if we couldn't find another job for them right away) or change jobs due to gender.

I rather try and encourage men and women to follow talents. This way, if Mike was more focused on STEM fields and Rita wanted to dive into teaching or other carework, the two could go for it. Most men and women would naturally even out into what they're good at or inclined to do as you'd said, and then those who are atypical for their gender can still have their talents nurtured so we don't miss out on good people with good ideas and such. I guess we'll have to wait and see how much troons affect gender in the next 5 years and if that'll force people to change their views or not.

Every side that thinks it is right hardcore doesn't get why you don't see their basic rules and ethics as your basic rules and ethics. It just makes so much sense to them, why isn't it doing the same for you??? Turns out this self unaware attitude that turned people away from an ideology doesn't work well when another ideology uses it.

I'm trying to say I fucking agree with you and it is pretty goddamn embarrassing watching people try to do atheism/christianity conversions to each other. Forcing people to feel or think the same way you do always ends bad unless you're doing literal political invasions of countries.

I think some gender roles are my evident than others, and they'll be the ones that are almost always universal. Like how men are bigger and stronger and more inclined to physical pursuits. And how women, as a rule, tend to like working with children more.

You can say there are exceptions, certainly, but as a whole I think we can both agree those statements above hold true. We evolved this way for a reason, so why fight it? That's what I always go back to.

However I'm afraid I must disagree with you about doubling the workforce being a good thing. Doubling the labour pool lead to a wage stagnation and fucked up the labour market to a huge extent. To the point where to afford a house these days you need two parents working full time to BARELY scrape by. That shouldn't be the case.