Feminist Criticism In Games: Thank You, Anita Sarkeesian -

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It is honestly hard to say. I find it kind of pointless to even go through and criticize it, because it simply isn't made to be criticized. Its not made for a discussion. She didn't want to have one at all. Not once did she ever engage in public debate. Because the whole thing wasn't meant to operate that way.

This is why I didn't immediately come out of the gate hating her because I thought she did want to have a discussion, it also wasn't at all clear to me that her belief was "sexy = sexist" because I never imagined someone could really be so tight assed, it was an alien concept to me and took some time to grasp.

Very quickly though when it became clear that there was no discussion to be had, you either agreed with everything she said or you were labeled a sexist and that her analysis really did just boil down to "anytime a woman is depicted as attractive, that's sexist" I grew to hate her fast.

What really pisses me off though is that while the grift may be over for her there was nevertheless permanent damage done to gaming and gaming culture, sexy women were 100% stripped out of any game not developed in Eastern Europe or Japan and gaming culture was permanently fractured in two.

I like to think maybe it's not all directly her fault and maybe it was just the zeitgeist, ie if it hadn't been Sarkeesian it would have been someone else, because the thought of one single person doing permanent damage to gaming makes me too angry to really think about too much.

To be fair I do think the zeitgeist would have turned either way, but Sarkeesian and Quinn only made things that much worse by being such focal points for the conflict.
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I will admit, the whole look at vidya in how the writing is and its use of tropes and the like can be interesting but I feel that would be taken by the hipster looking Youtubers and spergs that likely would just do a basic analysis and say it's all just so terrible, especially if they didn't note that one could take a trope like damsel in distress and make it work without being sexist or rewarding players with a woman and whatever else Tropes vs Women tried to do. For Anita herself, she may as well of been doing better than Quinn in not being in public eye as much. All she had to do was just make some kickstarter series and rake in all the raging gamer spergs that saw her as less of a grifter or a wannabe intellectual or the like and more of some evil Satan like figure (this is giving me some flashbacks of the old days when a halal member, Homer Beoulve, tried to get a thread on her and his only reasons was Tropes vs Women and Anita being a feminist which made him mad)

I will say, I can imagine she wouldn't get as much sympathy or clout if the spergs in gaming didn't REEEEE at her shit hard. Then again, they could of just been a small handful and you'll get their screechings amplified to make it look like all against her or those criticizing her must all be "manbaby chuds" and the like.
I mean, yeah. Its pretty simple to make a 'Damsel in Distress' trope good. But then again, you have to look at things from multiple perspectives. Is the game serious? Like Quiet from MGS V. People were like 'Oh, its so horribly sexist!' I mean, it was funny, sure. The excuse 'breathing through the skin' was shallow. HOWEVER, that being said, the MGS series only took itself seriously on occasion. I mean, MGS 2 had a gay vampire and a fat bomber on rollerskates named 'Fatman'. And in MGS 3 you had the hilarious codec calls, where one describes to you a dream where he had a shit demon and everything it touch turned to shit and then the world turned to shit. I mean, this was in an otherwise serious game.

You also have to consider that the MGS series takes after James Bond and spy movies, which were a mixture of absurd and serious. So, out of context, yes, it LOOKS sexist. But it has this purposeful history behind it that adds absurdity to it and contributes to the over-the-top feel. A well-dressed Quiet would have defeated what he was trying to go for. Its up to you if you think it was worth doing, but he's clearly not trying to portray a normal woman. She's a super soldier that is dangerous, can go invisible and is an expert sniper. So arguing that this promotes objectification would be wrong, since this isn't a normal woman. Like everyone in MGS, she's a weirdo. So you can't take that context and apply it to reality.

But the whole ideology these people espouse is fantasy = reality, no matter the context (unless the context would hurt them). So to me, there's no point in doing this type of analysis because faggots and spergs will come out of the woodwork. And God help you if you say fiction doesn't work like that. Its a cult and a belief system. That's why there's very little point in engaging with their dogma. Its equivalent to religious beliefs. Its like trying to disprove Allah to a Muslim extremist. Its not going to work. They're secular puritans, and critical theory is their religion.
Exactly. She's the feminist version of Al Sharpton. She promises these game companies that she won't accuse them of being sexists if they give her a big check.
Well, that shit is dead and gone nowadays really. All these companies have diversity officers and companies have moved away from straight, white women to trannys and the billion minorities. White women are there for when they don't know what to fill a check box with. She basically made herself obsolete.
This is why I didn't immediately come out of the gate hating her because I thought she did want to have a discussion, it also wasn't at all clear to me that her belief was "sexy = sexist" because I never imagined someone could really be so tight assed, it was an alien concept to me and took some time to grasp.

Very quickly though when it became clear that there was no discussion to be had, you either agreed with everything she said or you were labeled a sexist and that her analysis really did just boil down to "anytime a woman is depicted as attractive, that's sexist" I grew to hate her fast.

What really pisses me off though is that while the grift may be over for her there was nevertheless permanent damage done to gaming and gaming culture, sexy women were 100% stripped out of any game not developed in Eastern Europe or Japan and gaming culture was permanently fractured in two.

I like to think maybe it's not all directly her fault and maybe it was just the zeitgeist, ie if it hadn't been Sarkeesian it would have been someone else, because the thought of one single person doing permanent damage to gaming makes me too angry to really think about too much.

To be fair I do think the zeitgeist would have turned either way, but Sarkeesian and Quinn only made things that much worse by being such focal points for the conflict.
I think Anita really was that first instance of 'no debate, this is my religion and you will accept it or you are an apostate who must be burned or pay 10% and be under investigation as a heretic forever'. It really threw a lot of people off guard and they don't know how to deal with it. I mean, its just 'Shut the fuck up'. There's no point in engaging. If you're just going to get called a sexist anyway, best to slap them the fuck down.

I think it wouldn't have mattered in the long run. Anita smelled which way the wind was blowing. She had a lot of contacts in the sphere, so she could exploit that insider information. Anita was at the perfect time and place. Right at the start. I don't think its her fault, we would have ended up here anyway. The way the press and media lost its shit, it would have just been a natural course with Trump's election. The wind was blowing in that direction, Anita was just the first ship to sail in that direction, so she got the biggest amount of money and fame. I mean now people like Anita are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you'll probably hit 20 or so clones of her.

I mean, games would have just followed the billion dollar corporate machines that pandered to the woke crowd. Maybe you can say Anita helped the shift go slightly earlier, but that's about it. I think you're overestimating her influence. Conmen (and women) are extraordinarily adept at reading situations and exploiting them. She read the situation and exploited it, absolutely perfectly. Anita's just a face to put to something. If it hadn't been her, there would have been thousands of suits at these companies who would have pushed for it. I don't think Anita existing pushed the cultural zeitgeist. The zeitgeist was already there. If it wasn't, Anita wouldn't have come about, because there's nothing there to exploit. She didn't create the situation. That's giving her way too much credit. This shit was on the horizon no matter what. Quinn herself only mattered because she was fucking and sucking and was this manic pixie dream girl to betas. Now like I said, she's just a #MeToo crisis waiting to happen and exploits what little connections she has left for jobs that largely end up unfinished and she gets paid anyway.

Anita might have laid the groundwork for how to do this sort of criticism, but I think her influence has largely evaporated. The zeitgeist has long since taken hold, and she's rung what money she could out of these entities. And Japan is simply not going to listen to a white woman. Eastern Europe is drunk on vodka and cheap tobacco and would yell at her to show them her cunt. So she's really been largely background noise. I don't really feel they've made any impact gaming culture and the cunt who wrote this is going to be easy prey for male feminists to make their fucktoy. They were just heralds of what were to come. Now that it has, they look comparatively insignificant compared to the mass corporate machines designed to feed off this ideology. Their scams are just a drop of water to the harvesting these corporations are doing. They were basically a handful of illegal miners vs. miners who strip mined entire forests to dig out mine shafts and cut the tops off mountains, laying waste to entire lakes, streams and rivers. They may have explored that ground first, but they're nothing compared to the juggernauts that came after them.

EDIT:
Also hating Anita is pointless. She's a conman. You know where the term confidence man came from? It originated in the early 19th century. A guy would come up to rich folk and ask, "Do you have the confidence to have me look after your watch? There's a lot of pick pockets in this area and I can hold on to it for you." After which, he'd take the watch and a small fee and just fucking disappear. Do you get mad at the conman or the guy who gave him the watch? Nobody held Anita accountable. She took people's money and gave them garbage. She didn't make a DVD set, she didn't buy games, the episodes were late, short and shitty. She didn't even play anything. She didn't even WRITE the scripts.

Anita took these people's money and gave the barest amount of effort. THAT is where people should have hit her. Some did. But more money was to be made by exploiting the outrage of her videos. So you got the catharsis of getting her torn apart, she got attention and the YouTuber got money. Scam on top of scam on top of scam. I actually admire Anita in a way. She made over a hundred thousand dollars with the barest of efforts and funneled it into a non-profit so she could avoid taxes. And everyone who gave her money, the corporations, the people, didn't even fucking bat an eye. The people were stupid and the corps were only happy to exploit the retards that Anita had following her. I mean, think about it. What did Anita REALLY give the people who gave her money? Absolutely nothing. She took them for a full ride. Then, when she saw that ride was over, she took her horse and rode off into the sunset. She knew exactly when to start and when to stop. Did she give these people good analysis? No. Did she give them what her Kickstarter promised? No. Did she give them the very, very bare bones minimum that maybe cost a couple of grand, tops? Yes. And that's the point. She left her followers with no strong arguments. She left them with a face that abandoned them when the money dried up. All she gave them in return for their massive cash was a hollowed out husk that appeared useful for a short time, but is actually fundamentally useless. She made them eat shit, and they were only happy to pile more onto their plate. She's fucking laughing her ass off at these idiots.

So really, who can you get angry at? Big Tech, the media, corporations. Without them, this shift couldn't have happened. If they thought they could make more money by saying 'Fuck Niggers', they would. But hating on amorphous entities really isn't as satisfying as someone confidently tearing into people with names and a face, is it?
 
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Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I mean, yeah. Its pretty simple to make a 'Damsel in Distress' trope good. But then again, you have to look at things from multiple perspectives. Is the game serious? Like Quiet from MGS V. People were like 'Oh, its so horribly sexist!' I mean, it was funny, sure. The excuse 'breathing through the skin' was shallow. HOWEVER, that being said, the MGS series only took itself seriously on occasion. I mean, MGS 2 had a gay vampire and a fat bomber on rollerskates named 'Fatman'. And in MGS 3 you had the hilarious codec calls, where one describes to you a dream where he had a shit demon and everything it touch turned to shit and then the world turned to shit. I mean, this was in an otherwise serious game.

You also have to consider that the MGS series takes after James Bond and spy movies, which were a mixture of absurd and serious. So, out of context, yes, it LOOKS sexist. But it has this purposeful history behind it that adds absurdity to it and contributes to the over-the-top feel. A well-dressed Quiet would have defeated what he was trying to go for. Its up to you if you think it was worth doing, but he's clearly not trying to portray a normal woman. She's a super soldier that is dangerous, can go invisible and is an expert sniper. So arguing that this promotes objectification would be wrong, since this isn't a normal woman. Like everyone in MGS, she's a weirdo. So you can't take that context and apply it to reality.

But the whole ideology these people espouse is fantasy = reality, no matter the context (unless the context would hurt them). So to me, there's no point in doing this type of analysis because faggots and spergs will come out of the woodwork. And God help you if you say fiction doesn't work like that. Its a cult and a belief system. That's why there's very little point in engaging with their dogma. Its equivalent to religious beliefs. Its like trying to disprove Allah to a Muslim extremist. Its not going to work. They're secular puritans, and critical theory is their religion.

Well, that shit is dead and gone nowadays really. All these companies have diversity officers and companies have moved away from straight, white women to trannys and the billion minorities. White women are there for when they don't know what to fill a check box with. She basically made herself obsolete.

I think Anita really was that first instance of 'no debate, this is my religion and you will accept it or you are an apostate who must be burned or pay 10% and be under investigation as a heretic forever'. It really threw a lot of people off guard and they don't know how to deal with it. I mean, its just 'Shut the fuck up'. There's no point in engaging. If you're just going to get called a sexist anyway, best to slap them the fuck down.

I think it wouldn't have mattered in the long run. Anita smelled which way the wind was blowing. She had a lot of contacts in the sphere, so she could exploit that insider information. Anita was at the perfect time and place. Right at the start. I don't think its her fault, we would have ended up here anyway. The way the press and media lost its shit, it would have just been a natural course with Trump's election. The wind was blowing in that direction, Anita was just the first ship to sail in that direction, so she got the biggest amount of money and fame. I mean now people like Anita are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you'll probably hit 20 or so clones of her.

I mean, games would have just followed the billion dollar corporate machines that pandered to the woke crowd. Maybe you can say Anita helped the shift go slightly earlier, but that's about it. I think you're overestimating her influence. Conmen (and women) are extraordinarily adept at reading situations and exploiting them. She read the situation and exploited it, absolutely perfectly. Anita's just a face to put to something. If it hadn't been her, there would have been thousands of suits at these companies who would have pushed for it. I don't think Anita existing pushed the cultural zeitgeist. The zeitgeist was already there. If it wasn't, Anita wouldn't have come about, because there's nothing there to exploit. She didn't create the situation. That's giving her way too much credit. This shit was on the horizon no matter what. Quinn herself only mattered because she was fucking and sucking and was this manic pixie dream girl to betas. Now like I said, she's just a #MeToo crisis waiting to happen and exploits what little connections she has left for jobs that largely end up unfinished and she gets paid anyway.

Anita might have laid the groundwork for how to do this sort of criticism, but I think her influence has largely evaporated. The zeitgeist has long since taken hold, and she's rung what money she could out of these entities. And Japan is simply not going to listen to a white woman. Eastern Europe is drunk on vodka and cheap tobacco and would yell at her to show them her cunt. So she's really been largely background noise. I don't really feel they've made any impact gaming culture and the cunt who wrote this is going to be easy prey for male feminists to make their fucktoy. They were just heralds of what were to come. Now that it has, they look comparatively insignificant compared to the mass corporate machines designed to feed off this ideology. Their scams are just a drop of water to the harvesting these corporations are doing. They were basically a handful of illegal miners vs. miners who strip mined entire forests to dig out mine shafts and cut the tops off mountains, laying waste to entire lakes, streams and rivers. They may have explored that ground first, but they're nothing compared to the juggernauts that came after them.

EDIT:
Also hating Anita is pointless. She's a conman. You know where the term confidence man came from? It originated in the early 19th century. A guy would come up to rich folk and ask, "Do you have the confidence to have me look after your watch? There's a lot of pick pockets in this area and I can hold on to it for you." After which, he'd take the watch and a small fee and just fucking disappear. Do you get mad at the conman or the guy who gave him the watch? Nobody held Anita accountable. She took people's money and gave them garbage. She didn't make a DVD set, she didn't buy games, the episodes were late, short and shitty. She didn't even play anything. She didn't even WRITE the scripts.

Anita took these people's money and gave the barest amount of effort. THAT is where people should have hit her. Some did. But more money was to be made by exploiting the outrage of her videos. So you got the catharsis of getting her torn apart, she got attention and the YouTuber got money. Scam on top of scam on top of scam. I actually admire Anita in a way. She made over a hundred thousand dollars with the barest of efforts and funneled it into a non-profit so she could avoid taxes. And everyone who gave her money, the corporations, the people, didn't even fucking bat an eye. The people were stupid and the corps were only happy to exploit the retards that Anita had following her. I mean, think about it. What did Anita REALLY give the people who gave her money? Absolutely nothing. She took them for a full ride. Then, when she saw that ride was over, she took her horse and rode off into the sunset. She knew exactly when to start and when to stop. Did she give these people good analysis? No. Did she give them what her Kickstarter promised? No. Did she give them the very, very bare bones minimum that maybe cost a couple of grand, tops? Yes. And that's the point. She left her followers with no strong arguments. She left them with a face that abandoned them when the money dried up. All she gave them in return for their massive cash was a hollowed out husk that appeared useful for a short time, but is actually fundamentally useless. She made them eat shit, and they were only happy to pile more onto their plate. She's fucking laughing her ass off at these idiots.

So really, who can you get angry at? Big Tech, the media, corporations. Without them, this shift couldn't have happened. If they thought they could make more money by saying 'Fuck Niggers', they would. But hating on amorphous entities really isn't as satisfying as someone confidently tearing into people with names and a face, is it?

The zeitgeist was absolutely changing before anyone had ever heard of her, look at the redesign of Lara Croft or The Last of Us or Gears of War 3’s new focus on female soldiers, all of which made their debut in 2011.

I'm also pretty sure I read a Game Informer article about female characters in games in 2011 as well, this was all the year before Anita made her debut in 2012.

For another funny example of the zeitgeist changing, 2011 was also the year Girls Gone Wild released their last movies before going bankrupt in early 2013.

For whatever reason the calendar changing from 2010 to 2011 made everyone arbitrarily decide to get a bug up their ass about women in media, what's sad about this is it means we are fast approaching what is close to a "lost decade" for pop culture.
 
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Dysnomia

Is Reimu gonna have to smack a bitch?
kiwifarms.net
This is why I didn't immediately come out of the gate hating her because I thought she did want to have a discussion, it also wasn't at all clear to me that her belief was "sexy = sexist" because I never imagined someone could really be so tight assed, it was an alien concept to me and took some time to grasp.

Very quickly though when it became clear that there was no discussion to be had, you either agreed with everything she said or you were labeled a sexist and that her analysis really did just boil down to "anytime a woman is depicted as attractive, that's sexist" I grew to hate her fast.

What really pisses me off though is that while the grift may be over for her there was nevertheless permanent damage done to gaming and gaming culture, sexy women were 100% stripped out of any game not developed in Eastern Europe or Japan and gaming culture was permanently fractured in two.

I like to think maybe it's not all directly her fault and maybe it was just the zeitgeist, ie if it hadn't been Sarkeesian it would have been someone else, because the thought of one single person doing permanent damage to gaming makes me too angry to really think about too much.

To be fair I do think the zeitgeist would have turned either way, but Sarkeesian and Quinn only made things that much worse by being such focal points for the conflict.

She made her money and left massive scars in her wake. It's horrifying. Now companies are scared to death of polygonal boobies and tell us that Abby is a realistic looking woman. I can only hope it's something the industry will grow out of someday.

Women who disagree with the war on sexy are ignored. Because it doesn't fit the narrative that male gamergators are threatened by their male gaze not being catered to.

Male gamers are not threatened by Abby looking like a fridge with a ponytail. It doesn't decrease their masculinity by an inch. They are just disgusted with the entire idiotic trend towards catering to people who aren't likely to buy the games anyway. And if they do it's because there are ten thousand win buttons called accessibility options and they put some token characters in there to uwu at.

Why is erasing all signs of femininity so important? But the influx of troons in gaming is not a good sign of things to come.

Making a hetero sex scene that looks like two gay men barebacking sans lube to appease the trannies is going to earn you a lot of ire and a lot of laughs. Making your lesbo elf love interest look like a sweaty faced goblin is going to turn people off real fast. Assuming all those critical of you are men who can't fap to anyone who doesn't look like a porn star is blatantly false and extremely ignorant.

Bayonetta's character designer being a woman didn't even shut these ass pimples up.

Sadly Anita is immortal now because of women like the one in this article. She and Gamergate are never going to fully vanish from this world unless an asteroid wipes out humanity.
 

Syaoran Li

The Fresh Prince of Mayberry
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The only positive thing I can say about Jack Thompson is the fact that he at least had the sense to shut the hell up and fuck off out of the public's eye after he was thoroughly disgraced from his disbarment and realized that his Video Game Violence Bad jig is up. Anita overstayed her welcome long ago, but I'd say it's been a blessing in disguise that she lingered long enough for even the most fervent of her bootlickers at the beginning of her "career" had long figured out how much of a duplicitous, radioactive fraud she really is

Honestly, I think The Last of Us Part II is probably going to be her last hurrah. She was already near her grift's end after the attempts to shake down Cyberpunk 2077 backfired on her and she attempted to go after The Mandalorian and failed miserably.

If Neil Druckmann didn't already have a grudge against his own target audience and extended that last life line to Anita, she'd be totally out of the equation.

It is honestly hard to say. I find it kind of pointless to even go through and criticize it, because it simply isn't made to be criticized. Its not made for a discussion. She didn't want to have one at all. Not once did she ever engage in public debate. Because the whole thing wasn't meant to operate that way. It would put the money at risk. And you never fuck around with the money. Her whole endeavor was to extract money from gaming companies and communities. She wasn't looking for detailed analysis. She considered every trope 'bad'. It was supposed to be inflammatory. She did as little work as she possibly could, sitting in front of what basically amounts to a green screen, having her then boyfriend write up the scripts while ripping video from YouTube and then reading them in a monotone, insincere voice lacking all charisma. It was the perfect grift. Of course, then her boyfriend targeted videogame violence and the whole fucking industry ran from her as fast as they could. She dumped his ass for that one lol.

She doesn't have a clue how games operate nor does she even give a fuck. She was smart, saw it as a vulnerable community to exploit and came in at the perfect time. She, much like Zoe Quinn, is a con artist. While Zoe Quinn is trying to fulfill the 'manic pixie dreamgirl' fantasy (which is rapidly degrading as third stage sphyillis rots her brain and her looks are destroyed thanks to drugs and alcohol), Anita can keep it up because she appears to be the 'dignified intellectual', when she's just a grifter.

Quinn I think is just going to sustain herself through holding me-too accusations over everyone she's fucked head while she exploits her connections as she eventually runs out of options. Anita will continue to look for vulnerable spots to grift. She can hop around as much as she wants, but honestly her time in games is done. Everybody has 'diversity' garbage nowadays (except the West and Eastern Europe) so she can't really go anywhere. The last places just don't care about her. And if you don't give a fuck about her, she really has nothing to exploit, so she moves on.

Quinn is probably going to crash and burn badly because any attempt at a second MeToo is going to be viewed as suspect since she got Alec Holowa killed.

Anita will move onto the next grift and eventually she'll be forgotten and her influence will at best be seen as a footnote with ugly characters and pretentious preachiness being seen as a hallmark of 2010's video games the same way that being edgy and "EXTREME!" was a core part of the 1990's and early 2000's pop culture in general.

This is why I didn't immediately come out of the gate hating her because I thought she did want to have a discussion, it also wasn't at all clear to me that her belief was "sexy = sexist" because I never imagined someone could really be so tight assed, it was an alien concept to me and took some time to grasp.

Very quickly though when it became clear that there was no discussion to be had, you either agreed with everything she said or you were labeled a sexist and that her analysis really did just boil down to "anytime a woman is depicted as attractive, that's sexist" I grew to hate her fast.

What really pisses me off though is that while the grift may be over for her there was nevertheless permanent damage done to gaming and gaming culture, sexy women were 100% stripped out of any game not developed in Eastern Europe or Japan and gaming culture was permanently fractured in two.

I like to think maybe it's not all directly her fault and maybe it was just the zeitgeist, ie if it hadn't been Sarkeesian it would have been someone else, because the thought of one single person doing permanent damage to gaming makes me too angry to really think about too much.

To be fair I do think the zeitgeist would have turned either way, but Sarkeesian and Quinn only made things that much worse by being such focal points for the conflict.

Yeah, Anita was smart enough to cash in on the nascent Woke Left and was successful because there were two entire generations at that point (Generation X and the Millennials) who couldn't even conceive of the idea that leftist moral guardians existed. You had the occasional jokes about radfems in shows and movies from the 90's, but it was usually tied in with jokes about lesbians, hippies, or as part of a sendup of the 70's in general

When Anita came on the scene, a lot of people took her seriously and had the same reaction you did at first.

Her "I'm not Jack Thompson" grift was very successful at the start because for the longest time, the only real moral authoritarians and outrage grifters in the media were religious conservatives.

I'm not sure if the damage will be permanent because I think a lot of her influence will dissipate as time goes on and the last of the Western AAA titles greenlit in the late 2010's finish cycling out in the early 2020's.

2020 has been a shitshow year and if the election ends up with a Trump victory, expect the bigwigs to do an internal referendum and a wider shift in the culture. With how bad this year in particular has been, a lot of people are going to want to just have fun again and not be lectured about critical theory leftism or identity politics. If we're saved from a Kamala presidency, we'll likely go in that direction

The zeitgeist was absolutely changing before anyone had ever heard of her, look at the redesign of Lara Croft or The Last of Us or Gears of War 3’s new focus on female soldiers, all of which made their debut in 2011.

I'm also pretty sure I read a Game Informer article about female characters in games in 2011 as well, this was all the year before Anita made her debut in 2012.

For another funny example of the zeitgeist changing, 2011 was also the year Girls Gone Wild released their last movies before going bankrupt in early 2013.

For whatever reason the calendar changing from 2010 to 2011 made everyone arbitrarily decide to get a bug up their ass about women in media, what's sad about this is it means we are fast approaching what is close to a "lost decade" for pop culture.

2011 also had the Occupy Wall Street protests in the second half of the year, which were more or less the focal origin point for the wider Woke Left and the point where proto-SJW's became actual SJW's.

IIRC, you mentioned how a lot of people at the start of the 2010's knew things were shit but that there was an unwarranted sense of optimism and a desire to get things on the right track. The "Raising the Bar" South Park episode being a good example of that mentality.

I honestly think that mindset when paired against the backdrop of the wider "party hard" hedonism and the overall machismo and edgy mindset of the 2000's cultural zeitgeist is probably a major factor in the Woke Left's development alongside the more obvious factors of the Great Recession, a corrupted higher academia and the backlash against the Religious Right of the Bush years.

The conditions that led to the Woke Left were like that of a perfect storm

Coincidentally, it could very well lead to the equal and opposite reaction in the 2020's. It's difficult to tell and with the bleakness of 2020, I'd say this could end up being the darkness before the dawn and the silver lining from all it would be the death of woke culture.

She made her money and left massive scars in her wake. It's horrifying. Now companies are scared to death of polygonal boobies and tell us that Abby is a realistic looking woman. I can only hope it's something the industry will grow out of someday.

Women who disagree with the war on sexy are ignored. Because it doesn't fit the narrative that male gamergators are threatened by their male gaze not being catered to.

Male gamers are not threatened by Abby looking like a fridge with a ponytail. It doesn't decrease their masculinity by an inch. They are just disgusted with the entire idiotic trend towards catering to people who aren't likely to buy the games anyway. And if they do it's because there are ten thousand win buttons called accessibility options and they put some token characters in there to uwu at.

Why is erasing all signs of femininity so important? But the influx of troons in gaming is not a good sign of things to come.

Making a hetero sex scene that looks like two gay men barebacking sans lube to appease the trannies is going to earn you a lot of ire and a lot of laughs. Making your lesbo elf love interest look like a sweaty faced goblin is going to turn people off real fast. Assuming all those critical of you are men who can't fap to anyone who doesn't look like a porn star is blatantly false and extremely ignorant.

Bayonetta's character designer being a woman didn't even shut these ass pimples up.

Sadly Anita is immortal now because of women like the one in this article. She and Gamergate are never going to fully vanish from this world unless an asteroid wipes out humanity.

I'm probably gonna get bombarded with rainbow stickers as usual for saying this, but I think it needs to be said...

If we can get through the shitshow of 2020 without a total leftist/neoliberal takeover, this shit will die down in the culture slowly but surely and the SJW's complaining about GamerGate will end up being viewed in the same vein as hippie Boomers complaining about Richard Nixon decades later.

I think the industry is going to slowly get out of the woke mindset and it's probably going to take a little less time thanks to Corona-chan taking a bat to damn near every company.

People are going to want to get away from this garbage and they will want something edgy and problematic whether as a form of catharsis or as shut-your-brain-off entertainment to get their mind off the misery of 2020 and the "Current Year" cultural mindset that directly led up to it.

As we get more woke flops from the AAA companies and the lower budget markets move on from the "lol so quirky" pretentious adventure games to dark and edgy throwbacks to the PS1 and PS2 and go from "indie" to "independent", the malignant influence of Anita will fade.

She's already become a has-been. By 2030, she's gonna be seen as the Left's equivalent of Pat Robertson or Mary Whitehouse at the absolute best. At worst, she'll be like their equivalent of Jack Chick or the Westboro Baptist Church. Most likely, she'll just be completely forgotten.
 

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
2011 also had the Occupy Wall Street protests in the second half of the year, which were more or less the focal origin point for the wider Woke Left and the point where proto-SJW's became actual SJW's.

IIRC, you mentioned how a lot of people at the start of the 2010's knew things were shit but that there was an unwarranted sense of optimism and a desire to get things on the right track. The "Raising the Bar" South Park episode being a good example of that mentality.

I honestly think that mindset when paired against the backdrop of the wider "party hard" hedonism and the overall machismo and edgy mindset of the 2000's cultural zeitgeist is probably a major factor in the Woke Left's development alongside the more obvious factors of the Great Recession, a corrupted higher academia and the backlash against the Religious Right of the Bush years.

The conditions that led to the Woke Left were like that of a perfect storm

Coincidentally, it could very well lead to the equal and opposite reaction in the 2020's. It's difficult to tell and with the bleakness of 2020, I'd say this could end up being the darkness before the dawn and the silver lining from all it would be the death of woke culture.

2011 was also the year of "slutwalks" which if you remember was spurred on by some police chief's comment that women were "asking to be raped" if they dressed a certain way, which yeah, was a fucked up thing to say, but you know what else is fucked up? Saying men deserve to have their balls cut off for sitting a certain way on a bus/train, it didn't take long for feminism to go waaaaaaaaaay past the point of reason.

The whole argument over women and video games may have started similarly, as much as I love sexy female characters is it reasonable to say that not every female character has to be sexy? Sure, but on the flipside to that it's 100% unreasonable to say that every single last female character has to not be sexy as well.

As much as I miss it today there's no getting around the fact that the 2000s was a very hedonistic and often profoundly stupid culture, people entered the 2010s with a genuine desire to "raise the bar" as South Park captured so well, but it didn't long for that to be hijacked by evil people for evil means, it's a real shame and makes you wonder what might have been had people not been so spineless and told the assholes to fuck off early on.

I hope for better days and I do think the 2020s have a good chance to be so, but that's still a decade of our lives we'll never get back that were not as good as they could have been thanks to evil assholes and it's going to be hard to let that go.
 

Miller

Palestine turned Anakin to the dark side
kiwifarms.net
remember that this content made some people so mad she was forced to cancel a talk at Utah State University in 2014 due to terrorist threats.
I forgot to add that to my previous post, if I'm not mistaken it was the first time in her grifting career that they had planned a Q&A session after her talk. Damn "terrorists", they stopped the unique opportunity to have her face a non-controlled audience.

Quinn is probably going to crash and burn badly because any attempt at a second MeToo is going to be viewed as suspect since she got Alec Holowa killed.
She pushed a guy into suicide, stole more than 80k from a Kickstarter, got a deal with DC (and helped killing the Vertigo branch), a movie option for her shitty book produced by Amy Pascal... She's going to be fine, she has most of the media on her side.
 

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I forgot to add that to my previous post, if I'm not mistaken it was the first time in her grifting career that they had planned a Q&A session after her talk. Damn "terrorists", they stopped the unique opportunity to have her face a non-controlled audience.


She pushed a guy into suicide, stole more than 80k from a Kickstarter, got a deal with DC (and helped killing the Vertigo branch), a movie option for her shitty book produced by Amy Pascal... She's going to be fine, she has most of the media on her side.

How do we not know that bomb threat wasn't a false flag? And it's not like even in a "non-controlled audience" the first person to ask her an actual non-fawning question wouldn't have been kicked out.

I still can't believe Vertigo is really gone, if ever there was proof as to how destructive SJW culture is, that's it.
 

Syaoran Li

The Fresh Prince of Mayberry
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
She pushed a guy into suicide, stole more than 80k from a Kickstarter, got a deal with DC (and helped killing the Vertigo branch), a movie option for her shitty book produced by Amy Pascal... She's going to be fine, she has most of the media on her side.

Eh, most of Quinn's fortunes happened before Holowa's death.

The movie got nowhere and is at best stuck in development hell. The media's a lot less likely to back her now that they've moved onto other figures to white knight.
 

IAmNotAlpharius

For the Emperor!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Eh, most of Quinn's fortunes happened before Holowa's death.

The movie got nowhere and is at best stuck in development hell. The media's a lot less likely to back her now that they've moved onto other figures to white knight.
Younger and less controversial figures too. Also many can actually work. Chelsea can’t finish anything if her life depended on it. The only thing she’s good at is manipulating people. If she was just half way competent she could have gotten a permanent job as a mascot or writer.
 

Miller

Palestine turned Anakin to the dark side
kiwifarms.net
The movie got nowhere and is at best stuck in development hell.
Whether the movie gets made or not doesn't matter, she already got the money (it's probably gone by now).

How do we not know that bomb threat wasn't a false flag?
We don't, but it's an old tactic from activists to make up a fake attack just to gain victim points. I mean we all remember Future Congressw*man Wu who spent half an hour on Twitter blaming goobergrape for his dog dying in the front of his house instead of sending it to the vet.
To be honest, Anita is just an eggless feminist, no one would blow up a school just to stop her from getting ridiculed in front of an audience.
 

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Whether the movie gets made or not doesn't matter, she already got the money (it's probably gone by now).


We don't, but it's an old tactic from activists to make up a fake attack just to gain victim points. I mean we all remember Future Congressw*man Wu who spent half an hour on Twitter blaming goobergrape for his dog dying in the front of his house instead of sending it to the vet.
To be honest, Anita is just an eggless feminist, no one would blow up a school just to stop her from getting ridiculed in front of an audience.

I'd say it's more likely than not that it was a false flag.
 

ZMOT

wat
kiwifarms.net
She made her money and left massive scars in her wake. It's horrifying. Now companies are scared to death of polygonal boobies and tell us that Abby is a realistic looking woman. I can only hope it's something the industry will grow out of someday.

it's inevitable, and considering how hard they pushed it's probably gonna swing back hard.

in the end all you really need is one single company tell them to fuck off and making bank - and then everyone else will just join in because they want some of that money too. the second a company says "what you gonna do, not buy our game?" when the game is actually good and popular their whole posturing falls apart.

you can already see some of that effect in how weeb stuff is getting increasingly popular, because they simply don't give a fuck about western sensibilities and just want to make (good) games - however a lot of nip games aren't mainstream popular, but even that is changing. atelier ryza was the best and fastest selling game in the franchise and getting a direct sequel (when usually protagonists change even in their respective series), people go apeshit over persona and right now everybody is playing animu botw. either means people get more used to it or the western market is so crap and people so desperate they even play weebshit, but the whole stronk female schtick shoving idpol shit down players throat are on their way out because it's simply not sustainable and never was, and you can only ignore market demand for so long.

Yeah, Anita was smart enough to cash in on the nascent Woke Left and was successful because there were two entire generations at that point (Generation X and the Millennials) who couldn't even conceive of the idea that leftist moral guardians existed. You had the occasional jokes about radfems in shows and movies from the 90's, but it was usually tied in with jokes about lesbians, hippies, or as part of a sendup of the 70's in general

When Anita came on the scene, a lot of people took her seriously and had the same reaction you did at first.

Her "I'm not Jack Thompson" grift was very successful at the start because for the longest time, the only real moral authoritarians and outrage grifters in the media were religious conservatives.

what's baffling me is that it's not even about moral guardians or "muh sexism", but how everyone crawled up it's own ass right from the start. you don't need believe leftists don't exist (although most people with even a hint of history know better), but you weren't even allowed to question it. even back then everyone involved was absolute infantile and idiotic, and that's now mainstream - something the religious right never was. outright saying "this is stupid" gets you canceled and everyone's ok with it "for the greater good" or some retarded excuse. it's like watching the average IQ of the population drop 30 points. maybe it's me slowly turning into a boomer, but you can only watch people happily smear feces over each for so long before going "dude, wtf?"
 

Mr Metron666

Colourful Seashell Invader From The Planet Metron
kiwifarms.net
I mean, at this point talking about Anita is beating a dead horse into glue. They had her at games companies where if people asked her questions she threw a bitch fit. Her analysis was never made to be criticized, because its basically high-school level thought. Like Freshman level. The entire industry has basically washed their hands of her (though they're still packing in the progtards, at least in the West). Especially once she started critiquing violence, they dumped her as fast as possible, because her defense of 'I'm not Jack Thompson' was destroyed. Not to mention she didn't much like games to begin with and even says so herself. Its kind of hysterical that people tried to memory hole her saying "I had to learn a lot about videogames and I find the violence gross and disgusting" and just saying you're a sexist for bringing that up. It makes me laugh. Nigger, they're her OWN WORDS. Now she's asking for money she says she loves videogames. Are you a fucking moron? No shit she's saying she loves them now, she wants your money.

And no, there's no evidence she played any of the games. In fact, nearly all of her footage was jacked from Longplays and other YouTubers. She never fulfilled most of her Kickstartr rewards and her series was really, REALLY fucking delayed. It was a wonderful grift, and she kept doing it, like asking for 25k to start a discord server or a 'women in history' series that basically paid for her to play dress up and read wikipedia.

Also, hysterically, her ideal female character: A formless biege blob with no female attributes. I used to joke about that shit, I never imagined it was real. I forget what game it was, some shitty, little gameplay indie pixel art game that got absolutely no sales bump from her endorsement.

But really, that's what the ideal female is to people like her. Genderless, formless blobs.


Also, I have to say, she also doesn't know what a trope is. A trope is a writing tool. I want to stress this: You cannot write without using tropes. It is quite literally, impossible. And if you do write without a trope, the second someone else uses your device, it becomes a trope. A trope is a tool.

A naked trope with no detail filled in is a cliche. A well developed trope is just, well, a trope. There's a difference between a trope and a cliche. Also, pointing out tropes doesn't make you intelligent. Its like pointing to a house and going: "I KNOW THE GUY USED A HAMMER TO BUILD THAT" *smug grin* Yeah, ok retard. He also used a nail gun too. Why did he use that hammer? How did he use the hammer differently from a nail gun? Where did he use the hammer? Was it used efficiently? Did he waste his time with it or was it because it was more delicate and precise and he needed more control? Those are the questions you have to ask when you are critiquing something. Obviously, with Anita this was never done. It wasn't meant to be, because her analysis was only meant to get people to mindlessly clap at her. She never engaged in critique because she'd lose and she knew it. She wasn't an idiot. Anita knew she was making simplistic analysis that wouldn't hold up to the barest of scrutiny.

It is also insanely disingenuous to take works, toss them into categories by trope. You are oversimplifying the work and you lose all nuance and detail if you do this. Tossing in works grouped by tropes is only good for a very surface level analysis and you're not going to get anything more than skin deep with it. And like I've said, she knew this. Which is why she didn't allow herself to be challenged. Any challenge was ignored or written off as sexist/misogynistic. Because if she tried to defend this, it would have fallen apart like wet paper. She is trash when she needs to go off script and just can't do it. That's why she has an army of betas and fucktards white-knighting for her (or used to, she's really old news at this point and people are tired of her).


Its completely pathetic. These people are a fucking dime a dozen and the whole journo industry is already on the brink. Going into this field now is completely idiotic.
You also forgot to mention how the arguments against "sexualization" & "objectifacation" spewed by Anita & her ilk are just recycled right-wing sexual puritan/pro-censorship talking points. Just replace "immoral" with "sexist/objectifying". That's literally the only difference.
All this screeching has done was shit out some manbashing "female" characters who aren't inspiring at all. If these troglodytes wanted women in their vidya, they could've played Metroid or made their own game.

They hate men, and want men to not be in their products, and screech and shit their pants. I'm hoping that the culture shifts and these tards will be treated like the Religious Right as they fell from grace, because good God are they in need of a kick to the pants.

View attachment 1647130
I don't know about that. Groups like Breadtube have managed to keep the woke left on life support by pointing out the stupid shit Anti-SJWs say & do to distract people from their own stupid shit.
What really pisses me off though is that while the grift may be over for her there was nevertheless permanent damage done to gaming and gaming culture, sexy women were 100% stripped out of any game not developed in Eastern Europe or Japan and gaming culture was permanently fractured in two.
She made her money and left massive scars in her wake. It's horrifying. Now companies are scared to death of polygonal boobies and tell us that Abby is a realistic looking woman. I can only hope it's something the industry will grow out of someday.
Tell me more about how glorious and empowering the W.A.P. is. Also, women not only can, but should have the exact same sex drive and proclivities as the most lecherous of men.
Ya know. I don't know how the modern left can still view itself as the side that's sex-positive & pro-creative freedom. If anything, they seem to believe in those things as much as communist/socialist governments believe in equality, as much as most male feminists believe in feminism, as much as many catholic priests believe in their religion etc. What's worse is that the wokies who aren't openly pushing this brand of left-wing sexual puritanism instead act completely ignorant of it as if it doesn't exist.
Anyway, probably should have put this in the original post, but here's Suris & his fans showing how completely oblivious they are to SocJus's hatred of sexiness. (& a perfect example of him avoiding the topic of Sarkeesian as she's brought up two times & he doesn't respond) (archive)
1597691926193.jpeg
Also, you can count these retards & their equally retarded fans coming into existence as an example of the damage Sarkeesian has done. They pretty much built their careers on whiteknighting for her & her ilk.
1603809664468.png

Hbomberguy Smug Face.jpg

1603810061788.png

Women who disagree with the war on sexy are ignored. Because it doesn't fit the narrative that male gamergators are threatened by their male gaze not being catered to.
Yeah, they always pull the old "internalised misogynist" card on them, just like with every other minority person who doesn't agree with the woke left & their polices which supposedly "help" them. Also, they never consider that lesbians/bisexual women like voluptuous, scantly clad female characters as much as horny dudebros do.
Assuming all those critical of you are men who can't fap to anyone who doesn't look like a porn star is blatantly false and extremely ignorant.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the card they're pulling now against those who disagree with this new left-wing brand of sexual puritianism. They even nutpick coomer men who are actually like that as proof of their sentiments.
Bayonetta's character designer being a woman didn't even shut these ass pimples up.
Same with the shirtgate shirt. It still disgusts me that the perpetrators of that incident, after ruining the best day of a man's life over a completely innocuous T-shirt, tried to turn it round & claim they were the victims of evil misogynists instead.😡😤
Anita Sarkeesian is my most hated person of the entire human race, I mean that literally, I have more respect for anal parasites than I do her.
Agreed, squared👍👍
2011 was also the year of "slutwalks" which if you remember was spurred on by some police chief's comment that women were "asking to be raped" if they dressed a certain way, which yeah, was a fucked up thing to say, but you know what else is fucked up? Saying men deserve to have their balls cut off for sitting a certain way on a bus/train, it didn't take long for feminism to go waaaaaaaaaay past the point of reason.

The whole argument over women and video games may have started similarly, as much as I love sexy female characters is it reasonable to say that not every female character has to be sexy? Sure, but on the flipside to that it's 100% unreasonable to say that every single last female character has to not be sexy as well.

As much as I miss it today there's no getting around the fact that the 2000s was a very hedonistic and often profoundly stupid culture, people entered the 2010s with a genuine desire to "raise the bar" as South Park captured so well, but it didn't long for that to be hijacked by evil people for evil means, it's a real shame and makes you wonder what might have been had people not been so spineless and told the assholes to fuck off early on.

I hope for better days and I do think the 2020s have a good chance to be so, but that's still a decade of our lives we'll never get back that were not as good as they could have been thanks to evil assholes and it's going to be hard to let that go.
There are days when I really do wish I had a time machine, so I could kill Sarkeesian & the other evil assholes who've ruined this decade as babies & thus prevent a whole out of the stupid shit that has happened over this decade.
Then again, they could of just been a small handful and you'll get their screechings amplified to make it look like all against her or those criticizing her must all be "manbaby chuds" and the like.
Right on the money. That's all it's ever been all along.
Sure and it turned out that the threats were made up, probably by her entourage or herself.
I'd say it's more likely than not that it was a false flag.
We don't, but it's an old tactic from activists to make up a fake attack just to gain victim points. I mean we all remember Future Congressw*man Wu who spent half an hour on Twitter blaming goobergrape for his dog dying in the front of his house instead of sending it to the vet.
To be honest, Anita is just an eggless feminist, no one would blow up a school just to stop her from getting ridiculed in front of an audience.
Even if at least some of these death threats are real, at this point she fucking deserves every single one of them.
Her "I'm not Jack Thompson" grift was very successful at the start because for the longest time, the only real moral authoritarians and outrage grifters in the media were religious conservatives.
It almost makes me wish they were still the dominant moral guardians in our culture. Cos honestly, they're pushovers compared to leftist moral guardians.
 
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Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
There are days when I really do wish I had a time machine, so I could kill Sarkeesian & the other evil assholes who've ruined this decade as babies & thus prevent a whole out of the stupid shit that has happened over this decade.

Even if at least some of these death threats are real, at this point she fucking deserves every single one of them.
I have the same time travel fantasy too, but to be honest I'm not sure if you killed a few people others wouldn't just pop up in their place, for whatever reason the zeitgeist shifted the way it shifted and I'm not sure there would have been any preventing it sadly, people just decided to get a bug up their ass about women's depiction in the media, Sarkeesian simply very effectively rode a cultural wave, I'm not sure how much she was responsible for creating it (she certainly made it 100 times worse, but like I said if it wasn't her someone else probably would have just stepped up to the plate)

I stop short of Sarkeesian deserves death threats though as much as I hate her because that only makes the situation worse, it gives her the ammo she needs for her narrative, but the thing is she made it inevitable by taking everything else off the table, she and her followers didn't want debate, they didn't want a discussion, they wanted simply "she says jump, you say how high" and it's no surprise when you make people feel powerless they go the route of death threats when they feel like they have no other choice.

If Sarkeesian had simply grown a fucking spine and had been willing to have an actual debate with people and defend her ideas, I don't think she would have been quite as controversial a figure and the discourse in gaming culture would not have gotten as heated, but instead she didn't want to play fair and just wanted to be a dictator so it's no surprise shit got ugly real fast.

Also, it's the internet, fucking everyone gets death threats for any reason, didn't the fucking Star Wars kid get death threats for swinging around a stick? Fucking deal with it since it's par for the course if you're going to make yourself a public figure online, it proves nothing about gaming culture, it's an aspect of internet culture.
 

Troonologist PhD

kiwifarms.net
There are days when I really do wish I had a time machine, so I could kill Sarkeesian & the other evil assholes who've ruined this decade as babies & thus prevent a whole out of the stupid shit that has happened over this decade.
Man that’s such low ambitions for time travel. I would get rid of Karl Marx, the Marquis de Sade, the Jacobins, Sabbatai Levi, Mohammed, the Illuminati, John Calvin, the Rothschilds, Aleister Crowley, so damn many. Think big, man.
 
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Syaoran Li

The Fresh Prince of Mayberry
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Man that’s such low ambitions for time travel. I would get rid of Karl Marx, the Marquis de Sade, the Jacobins, Sabbatai Levi, Mohammed, the Illuminati, John Calvin, the Rothschilds, Aleister Crowley, so damn many. Think big, man.

Agreed, although I'd add Emperor Constantine I, Mao Zedong, the Puritans, and Lenin to that list and maybe spare the Marquis De Sade and Aleister Crowley and bring them back to the present alongside Bill Hicks, GG Allin, and Tim Wilson and sign them up for Kiwi Farms.

I have the same time travel fantasy too, but to be honest I'm not sure if you killed a few people others wouldn't just pop up in their place, for whatever reason the zeitgeist shifted the way it shifted and I'm not sure there would have been any preventing it sadly, people just decided to get a bug up their ass about women's depiction in the media, Sarkeesian simply very effectively rode a cultural wave, I'm not sure how much she was responsible for creating it (she certainly made it 100 times worse, but like I said if it wasn't her someone else probably would have just stepped up to the plate)

I stop short of Sarkeesian deserves death threats though as much as I hate her because that only makes the situation worse, it gives her the ammo she needs for her narrative, but the thing is she made it inevitable by taking everything else off the table, she and her followers didn't want debate, they didn't want a discussion, they wanted simply "she says jump, you say how high" and it's no surprise when you make people feel powerless they go the route of death threats when they feel like they have no other choice.

If Sarkeesian had simply grown a fucking spine and had been willing to have an actual debate with people and defend her ideas, I don't think she would have been quite as controversial a figure and the discourse in gaming culture would not have gotten as heated, but instead she didn't want to play fair and just wanted to be a dictator so it's no surprise shit got ugly real fast.

Also, it's the internet, fucking everyone gets death threats for any reason, didn't the fucking Star Wars kid get death threats for swinging around a stick? Fucking deal with it since it's par for the course if you're going to make yourself a public figure online, it proves nothing about gaming culture, it's an aspect of internet culture.

I'm honestly inclined to agree with you on all this. Sarkeesian was an opportunistic grifter who saw where the puck was heading and she capitalized on it. I honestly think that's why she refused to debate anyone at all and got her supporters and media friends to act as if she was infallible, because any genuine attempt at a debate would publicly expose her as a grifter in a way that couldn't be ignored.

Either way, if we do see a backlash against woke culture after 2020, her influence will diminish further and she'll move onto the next grift.
 

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